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Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?

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Subject Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?
From Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com>
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On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 9:40:39 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 1:17 AM, BartC wrote:
> > On 01/06/2015 14:52, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >> It's
> >>
> >> like the eternal debate about assignment and whether "x = x + 1" is
> >> nonsense, with advocates preferring "x := x + 1" as being somehow
> >> fundamentally different. It isn't. It's just a notational change, and
> >> not even a huge one. (Though I do see the line of argument that it
> >> should be "x <- x + 1" or something else that looks like an arro'w.)
> >
> >
> > 'x <- x + 1' already means something as an expression (whether x is less
> > than (-x+1). 'x <= x + 1' has the same problem.
> >
> > But I have used "=>" before,  for left-to-right assignment. (Mostly I use
> > ":=")
> 
> In Python it does, yes; I'm talking about the language design
> advocates. Some recommend a two-character ASCII notation like "<-" or
> "<=", others prefer a single-character symbol eg "←" or "⇦", but
> whatever it is, it will have no meaning in that language other than
> assignment. And yes, I can see the value of using an arrow to indicate
> assignment... but I don't really see a huge problem with using "=" to
> mean assignment, given that people from a mathematical background will
> have to grok the entire concept of temporal truth anyway. Whatever
> symbol you use, it has to be explained.

Its not merely temporal truth but truth vs action and their wanton overloading.

In every (natural) language that I know (of)¹ declarative and imperative moods
are distinguished.  It does not require a PhD in English to see that
"Please sit down."
and
"It is raining."
differ in mood.
Imperative languages after Pascal (specially C and following) use a locution from
the one to denote a semantics in the other and make pickle of beginners' brains.

---------
¹ Except perhaps magic/mystic-speak wherein pronouncing a spell makes the heavens thunder.
Maybe I am just too old to have noticed that imperative programming is a paradigm of magic

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What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mike Driscoll <kyosohma@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 09:01 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 12:08 -0400
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mike Driscoll <kyosohma@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 09:55 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 02:09 +1000
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mike Driscoll <kyosohma@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 09:57 -0700
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 03:08 +1000
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? random832@fastmail.us - 2015-05-31 23:18 -0400
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 13:43 +1000
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 09:58 +0200
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-01 12:36 +0300
          Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-01 22:07 +1000
            Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 14:52 +0200
            Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-06-01 13:56 +0100
              Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 08:14 -0500
                Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Dave Farrance <df@see.replyto.invalid> - 2015-06-01 15:39 +0100
              Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-01 18:35 +0100
              Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-06-01 17:32 -0400
            Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-01 16:18 +0300
              Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] random832@fastmail.us - 2015-06-01 09:32 -0400
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-06-01 11:44 +0100
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-01 13:54 +0300
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 22:33 -0700
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 19:45 +1000
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 12:28 +0200
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-01 14:22 +0100
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-01 11:34 +0100
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 20:36 +1000
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 13:00 +0200
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 13:24 +0200
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-01 14:57 +0300
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-01 13:27 +0100
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-06-01 13:27 +0100
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 17:07 +0200
            Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-06-01 15:26 +0000
              Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 17:51 +0200
              Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-06-01 18:06 +0100
                Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-01 20:14 +0300
            Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-01 16:42 +0100
              Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-01 17:02 +0000
                Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-01 18:45 +0100
                Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-01 18:23 +0000
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-01 13:24 +0100
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 23:52 +1000
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-01 16:17 +0100
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 02:10 +1000
            Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 21:46 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 11:39 -0500
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mike Driscoll <kyosohma@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 09:58 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 02:50 +1000
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Todd <toddrjen@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 19:02 +0200
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-05-29 10:03 -0700
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-05-29 10:17 -0700
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-05-29 14:06 -0700
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Jason Swails <jason.swails@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 17:28 -0400
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-05-29 14:39 -0700
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-05-29 14:44 -0700
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-29 20:24 +0300
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Todd <toddrjen@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 19:03 +0200
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-30 03:55 +1000
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mike Driscoll <kyosohma@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 13:38 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 12:15 +0000
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? jonathon <jonathon.blake@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 19:32 +0000
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 08:24 +1000
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2015-05-30 18:28 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 20:30 -0700
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 14:25 +1000
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 21:46 -0700
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 14:58 +1000
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 22:18 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-06-01 09:49 -0400
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 15:30 +0000
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-06-01 20:33 -0400
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-06-01 23:30 -0400

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