Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?

References	(7 earlier) <CAPTjJmrvi0EPyhV49hmqPxi1ztcZHmCn8hKzHhR7Y8_bkd7ZCw@mail.gmail.com> <201506011028.t51ASBVG019928@fido.openend.se> <rosuav@gmail.com> <CAPTjJmrCR6LWApe7UUF9DBCcQe2+hsCYi+s203aENUv2mmvDAA@mail.gmail.com> <201506011124.t51BOqO2021385@fido.openend.se>
Date	2015-06-01 23:52 +1000
Subject	Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?
From	Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.290.1433166769.5151.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

Show all headers | View raw

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> wrote:
> In a message of Mon, 01 Jun 2015 20:36:14 +1000, Chris Angelico writes:
>>The problem isn't the decimal separator, though, because floats can
>>have problems even without it (and can have no problems with a decimal
>>separator). If you want to distinguish "computer numbers" from "real
>>numbers", you'd do better to pick a different set of symbols for them
>>- or at least a different numerical base. If all literals were written
>>in octal, people would understand that there's something special going
>>on here. But would that really help?
>
> Maybe _your_ brain needs some resetting, too. :)  You know too much so
> have lost the grasp of how the world looks to the new programmer.
>
> Problem:
> I want to use a computer to add up a whole lot of money amounts so I can
> figure out how much money to send some place.
>
> And they immediately grab floating point numbers...

That part I do understand; floating-point is the one obvious way to do
these sorts of things. I'm fairly sure we agree that a novice *will*,
for better or for worse, stumble upon floats - in pretty much any
language.

The question is, what part of float is wrong? I don't think the
problem is with the decimal separator, and therefore laying them out
as "whole part, colon, fractional part" won't necessarily help. And it
can potentially hurt, by teaching people that computers are just
weird, and you have to speak a weird language to talk to them -
without understanding that there's a real difference behind this. It's
like the eternal debate about assignment and whether "x = x + 1" is
nonsense, with advocates preferring "x := x + 1" as being somehow
fundamentally different. It isn't. It's just a notational change, and
not even a huge one. (Though I do see the line of argument that it
should be "x <- x + 1" or something else that looks like an arrow.)

ChrisA

Thread

What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mike Driscoll <kyosohma@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 09:01 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 12:08 -0400
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mike Driscoll <kyosohma@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 09:55 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 02:09 +1000
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mike Driscoll <kyosohma@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 09:57 -0700
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 03:08 +1000
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? random832@fastmail.us - 2015-05-31 23:18 -0400
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 13:43 +1000
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 09:58 +0200
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-01 12:36 +0300
          Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-01 22:07 +1000
            Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 14:52 +0200
            Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-06-01 13:56 +0100
              Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 08:14 -0500
                Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Dave Farrance <df@see.replyto.invalid> - 2015-06-01 15:39 +0100
              Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-01 18:35 +0100
              Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-06-01 17:32 -0400
            Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-01 16:18 +0300
              Re: Zero [was Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python?] random832@fastmail.us - 2015-06-01 09:32 -0400
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> - 2015-06-01 11:44 +0100
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-01 13:54 +0300
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 22:33 -0700
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 19:45 +1000
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 12:28 +0200
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-01 14:22 +0100
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-01 11:34 +0100
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 20:36 +1000
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 13:00 +0200
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 13:24 +0200
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-01 14:57 +0300
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-01 13:27 +0100
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-06-01 13:27 +0100
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 17:07 +0200
            Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-06-01 15:26 +0000
              Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-01 17:51 +0200
              Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-06-01 18:06 +0100
                Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-01 20:14 +0300
            Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-01 16:42 +0100
              Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-01 17:02 +0000
                Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-01 18:45 +0100
                Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-01 18:23 +0000
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-01 13:24 +0100
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 23:52 +1000
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-01 16:17 +0100
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 02:10 +1000
            Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 21:46 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 11:39 -0500
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mike Driscoll <kyosohma@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 09:58 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 02:50 +1000
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Todd <toddrjen@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 19:02 +0200
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-05-29 10:03 -0700
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-05-29 10:17 -0700
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-05-29 14:06 -0700
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Jason Swails <jason.swails@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 17:28 -0400
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-05-29 14:39 -0700
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-05-29 14:44 -0700
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-29 20:24 +0300
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Todd <toddrjen@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 19:03 +0200
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-30 03:55 +1000
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Mike Driscoll <kyosohma@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 13:38 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 12:15 +0000
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? jonathon <jonathon.blake@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 19:32 +0000
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 08:24 +1000
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2015-05-30 18:28 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 20:30 -0700
    Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 14:25 +1000
      Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 21:46 -0700
        Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 14:58 +1000
          Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 22:18 -0700
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-06-01 09:49 -0400
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2015-06-01 15:30 +0000
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-06-01 20:33 -0400
  Re: What is considered an "advanced" topic in Python? Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-06-01 23:30 -0400

csiph-web