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Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language

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On Saturday, May 7, 2016 at 4:02:32 AM UTC-4, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Fri, May 6, 2016, at 11:43 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> > Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > > Who is setting and enforcing this quota, and given that only about 1 in 20
> > > Python programmers is a woman, do you think men are seriously missing out
> > > on any opportunities?
> > 
> > Suppose there are 100 people wanting to ask questions, and
> > there is only time to answer 10 questions. If the 1 in 20
> > ratio holds, then 5 of those people are women and the other
> > 95 are men.
> > 
> > Alternating between men and women means that all of the
> > women get their questions answered, and only 5/95 of the
> > men. So in this example, if you're a woman you have a 100%
> > chance of getting answered, and if you're a man you only
> > have a 5.26% chance.
> > 
> > Whether you think this is a good strategy or not,
> > beliavsky is right that it's not "equal".
> 
> This is a pedantically and nonsensical definition of "equal", that
> ignores the many, many reasons why there are 1 in 20 women in that
> conference. Its looking at the end effect and ignoring everything that
> leads up to it, and deciding its instead special rights -- this is the
> great argument against minorities getting a voice, that their requests
> for equal *opportunity* are instead *special rights* that diminish the
> established majority's entrenched power. 
> 
> Those women are dealing with suppression, discrimination and dismissal
> on multiple levels that leave them in a disenfranchised position. 

The sex disparity in Python and in tech in general could be due in part to discrimination, but it could also be due to different male and female interests and (gasp) aptitudes on average. Are Asian-Americans over-represented in tech because whites have been suppressed? There are far more female than male teachers. I don't attribute it to anti-male suppression but to greater female interest in working with children.

In our public middle school (grades 6-8, ages 11-13) there is a programming club that is open to girls. My son is shut out because of his sex. That is just as wrong as excluding him because of his skin color. I oppose such discrimination.

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Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-05-05 14:59 -0400
  Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language beliavsky@aol.com - 2016-05-06 13:35 -0700
    Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-05-06 14:07 -0700
      Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language beliavsky@aol.com - 2016-05-06 14:45 -0700
        Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language alex wright <wrightalexw@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 18:20 -0400
    Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-07 13:33 +1000
      Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 14:04 +1000
      Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language John Wong <gokoproject@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 00:25 -0400
      Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-05-07 18:43 +1200
        Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 00:07 -0700
        Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-05-07 01:02 -0700
          Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-05-07 23:52 +1200
          Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language beliavsky@aol.com - 2016-05-08 03:22 -0700
            Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-09 02:27 +1000
              Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-08 10:34 -0700
        Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-07 11:50 +0300
          Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-08 01:16 +1000
            Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 01:38 +1000
              Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-07 18:57 +0300
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-08 22:08 +1000
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 08:09 -0700
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-08 10:25 -0700
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-05-08 12:48 -0500
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 08:17 +1000
            Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-07 18:48 +0300
            Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-07 14:40 -0400
              Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-08 12:43 +1000
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 13:15 +1000
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-08 09:58 +0300
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-08 10:14 -0700
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-07 23:40 -0400
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-08 10:06 +0300
                Re: Python is an Equal Opportunity Programming Language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-08 19:07 +1000

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