English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively

From	Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.lisp, comp.lang.python, alt.usage.english
Subject	English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively
Date	2011-05-17 15:26 -0700
Organization	http://groups.google.com
Message-ID	<c159267e-22f9-4821-a70d-2f111cc35de4@f31g2000pri.googlegroups.com> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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might be of interest.

〈English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively〉
http://xahlee.org/comp/idiom_directory_recursively.html

------------------------------------------
English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively

Xah Lee, 2011-05-17

Today, let's discuss something in the category of lingustics.

You know how in unix tools, when you want to delete the whole
directory and all sub-directories and files in it, it's referred as
“recursive”?

For example, when you want to delete the whole dir in emacs, it
prompts this message: “Recursive delete of xx? (y or n) ”. (Note: to
be able to delete whole dir in emacs in dired, you'll first need to
turn it on. See: emacs dired tutorial.)

Here's another example. A quote from “rsync” man page:

     …
     This would recursively transfer all files from the directory …
     -r, --recursive             recurse into directories
     This tells rsync to copy directories recursively.  See also --
dirs (-d).
     …

Here's a quote from “cp”'s man page:

     -R, -r, --recursive
      copy directories recursively

and lots of other tools has a “-r” option, and they all refer to it as
“recursive”.

Though, if you think about it, it's not exactly a correct description.
“Recursive”, or “recursion”, refers to a particular type of algorithm,
or a implementation using that algorithm. Obviously, to process all
directory's content does not necessarily mean it must be done by a
recursive algorithm. A iteration can do it as well and it's easy to
have the full behavior and properties in the result as a recursive
approach, such as specifying depth order, level to dive into, etc.
(because, dir is a tree, and recursive algorithm is useful for walking
the tree data structure but is not necessary, because a tree can be
laid out flat. Any path order taken by a recursive approach can be
done by just enumerating the nodes in sequence. In fact, iteration
approach can be faster and simpler in many aspects. (i wrote a article
about this some 10 years ago, see: Trees and Indexes.) Note: this
thought about tree and its nodes as a set of node addresses can be
applied to any tree data structure, such as lisp's nested syntax, XML.
See: Programing Language: Fundamental Problems of Lisp.)

If you look at Windows or Mac OS X world, i don't think they ever
refer to dealing with whole dir as “recursive” in user interface. For
example, in Windows Vista, while changing properties of a folder, it
has this message:

        Apply changes to this folder only.
        Apply changes to this folder, subfolders and files.

Note the second choice. In unix, it would say “Apply changes to this
folder recursively.”

So, the word “recursive” used in unixes may be technically incorrect,
but more so, it's just not the right phrase. Because, we want to
communicate whether the whole content of a directory are processed,
not about certain algorithm or how it is implemented. A simple “all
the dir's branches/contents” or similar would be more apt.

Recently i was chatting in Second Life with someone (Sleeves). She's
typing, while i'm on voice. In part of our conversation, i said “you
sounded fine”. Note that it's technically incorrect, because she's
typing, not on voice. So she didn't actually make any “sound”. But to
say “you typed fine”, or “you chatted fine”, won't get the message
across.

That's idiom. When you interpret a idiom logically, it doesn't make
much sense, but people understand the particular phrase better anyway.
I suspect the “directory recursively” is also a idiom. It seems so
natural and really gets the point across, without any ill effects.
Even if the implementation actually used a iteration, it doesn't seems
to matter.

So the interesting question is, why this idiom works? Or, how it
developed?

I think, among programers (which all unix users are in the 1970s),
every one knows the concept of recursion, and many unix tools on dir
probably are implemented with a recursive algorithm. When you say “…
recursively”, the point gets across, because we all understand it,
even when we are not actually talking about implementation. The phrase
“… directory recursively” is short and memorable, while “… directory
and all its contents” or “… directory and all its branches” or “…
directory and all its sub-directories and files” are wordy and
unwieldy.
✍

    Idiocy Of Unix Copy Command
    Emacs Lisp Suggestion: Function to Copy/Delete a Directory
Recursively
    How to rsync, unison, wget, curl
    Hunspell Tutorial
    Mac OS X Resource Fork and Command Line Tips
    ImageMagick Tutorial
    Making System Calls in Perl and Python
    Unix And Literary Correlation
    The Unix Pestilence
    To An Or Not To An
    On “I” versus “i” (capitalization of first person pronoun)
    On the Postposition of Conjunction in Penultimate Position of a
Sequence
    What's Passive Voice? What's Aggressive Voice?
    Why You Should Avoid The Jargon “Tail Recursion”
    Why You should Not Use The Jargon Lisp1 and Lisp2
    Jargons of Info Tech Industry

 Xah

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English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2011-05-17 15:26 -0700
  Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-17 17:20 -0600
    Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hellwig@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 22:22 +0000
  Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 09:42 +1000
  Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively "Steven W. Orr" <steveo@syslang.net> - 2011-05-17 21:16 -0400
  Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> - 2011-05-18 04:51 +0000
    Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2011-05-18 07:19 +0200
      Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively tar@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) - 2011-05-17 23:42 -0700
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-18 09:26 +0100
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively tar@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) - 2011-05-18 09:16 -0700
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-18 19:11 +0100
              Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Raymond Wiker <raw@RAWMBP-2.local> - 2011-05-18 20:20 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-18 19:39 +0100
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Raymond Wiker <raw@RAWMBP-2.local> - 2011-05-18 21:09 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-18 21:02 +0100
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Raymond Wiker <raw@RAWMBP-2.local> - 2011-05-18 22:40 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-19 05:56 +0100
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively tar@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) - 2011-05-19 16:14 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-19 04:41 +1000
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-19 04:12 +1000
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2011-05-18 20:57 +0200
              Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively tar@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) - 2011-05-19 16:17 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2011-05-20 02:38 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@tkk.fi> - 2011-05-20 12:00 +0300
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Peter Moylan <invalid@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2011-05-18 22:09 +1000
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 06:14 -0700
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Peter Moylan <invalid@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2011-05-19 11:06 +1000
              Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-05-21 09:32 +0100
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2011-05-21 11:52 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2011-05-21 11:54 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2011-05-21 11:56 +0200
              Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-21 15:34 +0000
      Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> - 2011-05-20 06:50 +0000
    Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-17 23:06 -0700
      Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Harrison Hill <harrishill@gmx.com> - 2011-05-17 23:50 -0700
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 00:16 -0700
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Peter Moylan <invalid@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2011-05-18 22:19 +1000
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 13:16 -0700
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Peter Moylan <invalid@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2011-05-30 22:58 +1000
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively see@sig.for.address (Victor Eijkhout) - 2011-05-18 12:59 -0500
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> - 2011-05-20 06:54 +0000
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-20 17:10 +1000
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 13:28 -0700
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Peter Moylan <invalid@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2011-05-30 23:02 +1000
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 13:28 -0700
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Glenn Knickerbocker <NotR@bestweb.net> - 2011-05-18 16:54 -0400
      Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 00:58 -0600
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 00:10 -0700
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 08:32 -0600
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 08:15 -0700
              Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 09:43 -0600
  Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-18 09:12 +0100
    Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Espen Vestre <espen@vestre.net> - 2011-05-18 10:20 +0200
    Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Rikishi42 <skunkworks@rikishi42.net> - 2011-05-19 23:21 +0200
      Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-20 05:28 +0100
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Rikishi42 <skunkworks@rikishi42.net> - 2011-05-23 20:48 +0200
      Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-19 22:13 -0700
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-20 06:55 +0000
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-20 09:48 +0100
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-20 10:21 -0700
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Rikishi42 <skunkworks@rikishi42.net> - 2011-05-23 20:56 +0200
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-24 00:18 +0000
              Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Rikishi42 <skunkworks@rikishi42.net> - 2011-05-25 00:06 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 10:40 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 14:18 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 14:19 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 23:05 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Thorsten Kampe <thorsten@thorstenkampe.de> - 2011-05-25 09:26 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 00:51 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 17:59 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-25 21:59 +0000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Thorsten Kampe <thorsten@thorstenkampe.de> - 2011-05-26 10:48 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-26 10:06 +0000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Thorsten Kampe <thorsten@thorstenkampe.de> - 2011-05-26 12:46 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-27 09:31 -0500
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-25 22:58 +0000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 14:00 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Thorsten Kampe <thorsten@thorstenkampe.de> - 2011-05-26 10:59 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively "Charles" <C.Sanders@DeleteThis.Bom.GOV.AU> - 2011-05-26 20:58 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 21:12 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 14:38 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-30 07:46 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 15:54 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 14:38 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Thorsten Kampe <thorsten@thorstenkampe.de> - 2011-05-26 13:20 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 21:28 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 14:51 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Rikishi42 <skunkworks@rikishi42.net> - 2011-05-28 21:36 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 05:58 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-29 00:49 +0000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Rikishi42 <skunkworks@rikishi42.net> - 2011-05-30 23:04 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-30 23:17 +0000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 07:28 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Rikishi42 <skunkworks@rikishi42.net> - 2011-05-30 23:10 +0200
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 13:58 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-30 07:27 +1000
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 13:39 -0700
  Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Mike Barnes <mikebarnes@bluebottle.com> - 2011-05-18 10:25 +0100
    Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 13:00 -0700
      Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-18 21:19 +0100
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Lanarcam <lanarcam1@yahoo.fr> - 2011-05-18 22:33 +0200
      Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Mike Barnes <mikebarnes@bluebottle.com> - 2011-05-18 22:00 +0100
      Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-05-20 08:10 +0100
        Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 13:22 -0700
          Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:46 +1000
            Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 16:17 -0700
              Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 09:32 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 21:20 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 14:28 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 10:40 -0700
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 08:14 +1000
                Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-25 10:15 +0000
      Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 13:32 -0700
    Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-05-20 08:07 +0100
  Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2011-05-18 13:07 -0700
  Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-05-20 08:00 +0100
    Re: English Idiom in Unix: Directory Recursively David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com> - 2011-05-27 22:56 -0700

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