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Re: IDE for python

Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Date 2014-06-01 01:52 -0700
References (9 earlier) <mailman.10492.1401467907.18130.python-list@python.org> <d190acb1-1b20-4bff-930f-49c2e21c4eab@googlegroups.com> <d7053ef7-6b66-44fc-b628-6099d849f9c4@googlegroups.com> <87lhth9i38.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <mailman.10519.1401611476.18130.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID <a61af2d7-7024-4540-8c64-e442c7991440@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject Re: IDE for python
From Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com>

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On Sunday, June 1, 2014 2:01:09 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 5:58 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> > As a Finnish-speaker, I hope that patch doesn't become default behavior.
> > Too many times, we have been victimized by the German conventions. A
> > Finnish-speaker would much rather see
> >    Järvenpää => Jarvenpaa
> >    Öllölä => Ollola
> >    Kärkkäinen => Karkkainen
> > than
> >    Järvenpää => Jaervenpaeae
> >    Öllölä => Oelloelae
> >    Kärkkäinen => Kaerkkaeinen

> It's even worse than that. The rules for ASCIIfying adorned characters
> vary according to context - Müller and Mueller are different names,
> and in many contexts should sort and compare differently, and I
> remember reading somewhere that there's a context in which it's more
> useful to decompose ü to u rather than ue. There is no "safe" lossy
> transformation that can be done to any language's words, and this is
> no exception. ASCIIfication has to be accepted as flawed; this issue
> (an inability to handle non-ASCII labels) is similar to a lot of blog
> URLs - http://rosuav.blogspot.com/2013/08/20th-international-g-festival-awards.html
> is talking about the "International G&S Festival" awards, but the URL
> drops the "&S" part. (If you absolutely have to transmit something
> losslessly in pure ASCII, you need a scheme like Punycode, which is a
> lot less clean and readable than a decomposition scheme.)

> Of course, the better solution is to permit the full Unicode alphabet
> in identifiers...

Yes that is the real point.

Changing the current behavior which maps [ö,ä…] →  [o,a…] to a new
behavior that maps it to [oe,ae…], then arguing that this should/should
not become default is the wrong battle.

The more useful line is: Why have this conversion at all?
Until hardly 3 years ago html authors wrote non-ASCII as chars as html entities.
Now the current standard practice is directly to write the character and
make sure the page is explicitly utf-8.

Its only a question of time before this becomes standard practice in
all domains

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Thread

IDE for python Sameer Rathoud <sameer.rathoud@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 03:43 -0700
  Re: IDE for python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-28 13:50 +0300
    Re: IDE for python Greg Schroeder <gmschroeder@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 18:46 +0700
      Re: IDE for python Sameer Rathoud <sameer.rathoud@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 05:56 -0700
        Re: IDE for python Sameer Rathoud <sameer.rathoud@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 06:01 -0700
          Re: IDE for python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-28 15:36 +0100
        Re: IDE for python Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-29 08:09 +0000
          Re: IDE for python Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-29 08:32 +0000
    Re: IDE for python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 22:55 +1000
      Re: IDE for python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-28 08:38 -0700
        Re: IDE for python Wolfgang Maier <wolfgang.maier@biologie.uni-freiburg.de> - 2014-06-02 07:28 +0000
        Re: IDE for python Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2014-06-02 09:15 +0100
        Re: IDE for python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-02 10:02 +0100
        Re: IDE for python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 19:15 +1000
        Re: IDE for python Wolfgang Maier <wolfgang.maier@biologie.uni-freiburg.de> - 2014-06-02 10:10 +0000
        Re: IDE for python Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2014-06-02 11:43 +0100
        Re: IDE for python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-02 13:11 +0100
    Re: IDE for python Greg Schroeder <gmschroeder@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 08:13 +0700
    Programmer's text editor, for Python and everything else (was: IDE for python) Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-29 12:51 +1000
  答复: IDE for python "cheng.li" <scrappedprince.li@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 18:51 +0800
  Re: IDE for python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-05-28 11:03 +0000
  Re: IDE for python Mihamina Rakotomandimby <mihamina.rakotomandimby@rktmb.org> - 2014-05-28 13:51 +0300
    Re: IDE for python Sameer Rathoud <sameer.rathoud@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 04:31 -0700
      Re: IDE for python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 22:00 +1000
      Re: IDE for python "prashanth B.G" <prash.bg@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 17:41 +0530
      Re: IDE for python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-28 13:35 +0100
        Re: IDE for python Sameer Rathoud <sameer.rathoud@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 06:27 -0700
      Re: IDE for python Joseph Martinot-Lagarde <joseph.martinot-lagarde@m4x.org> - 2014-06-04 02:12 +0200
  Re: IDE for python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 21:33 +1000
  Re: IDE for python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-28 13:04 +0000
    Re: IDE for python "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> - 2014-05-29 00:12 +0100
      Re: IDE for python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 18:02 +1000
  Re: IDE for python William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com> - 2014-05-28 08:47 -0400
  Re: IDE for python Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 09:25 -0500
  Re: IDE for python Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-05-28 18:24 +0200
    Re: IDE for python "Ernest Bonat, Ph.D." <ernest.bonat@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 10:24 -0700
  Re: IDE for python Deb Wyatt <codemonkey@inbox.com> - 2014-05-28 09:39 -0800
  Re: IDE for python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 12:10 -0700
  Re: IDE for python Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-29 08:13 +1000
  Re: IDE for python Wolfgang Maier <wolfgang.maier@biologie.uni-freiburg.de> - 2014-05-29 11:41 +0200
  Re: IDE for python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-29 12:39 -0400
    Re: IDE for python Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2014-05-29 17:44 +0100
      Re: IDE for python Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 15:11 -0500
        Re: IDE for python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-29 21:41 +0100
        Re: IDE for python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-05-30 12:23 +0000
      Re: IDE for python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 05:53 -0700
        Re: IDE for python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-30 16:54 +0300
          Re: IDE for python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 07:04 -0700
            Re: IDE for python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-30 08:06 -0700
              Re: IDE for python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 09:15 -0700
                Re: IDE for python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-30 12:37 -0400
                Re: IDE for python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 09:40 -0700
                Re: IDE for python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-30 17:38 +0100
                Re: IDE for python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 10:07 -0700
                Re: IDE for python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-30 18:27 +0100
                Re: IDE for python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-31 18:48 -0700
                Re: IDE for python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-06-01 00:38 -0700
                Re: IDE for python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-01 10:58 +0300
                Re: IDE for python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 18:31 +1000
                Re: IDE for python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 01:52 -0700
                Re: IDE for python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-01 09:06 +0000
                Re: IDE for python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 19:59 +1000
                Re: IDE for python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-31 01:46 -0700
                Re: IDE for python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-30 10:17 -0700
                Re: IDE for python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 10:30 -0700
                Re: IDE for python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-30 11:43 -0700
          Re: IDE for python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-30 11:46 -0400
        Re: IDE for python "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> - 2014-06-01 00:17 +0100
  Re: IDE for python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 02:51 +1000
  Re: IDE for python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-29 16:45 -0400
  Re: IDE for python Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-30 07:05 +1000
  Re: IDE for python Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 15:40 -0700
    Re: IDE for python Andrea D'Amore <anddamNOALPASTICCIODICARNE+gruppi@brapi.net> - 2014-05-30 09:21 +0200
      Re: IDE for python Andrea D'Amore <anddamNOALPASTICCIODICARNE+gruppi@brapi.net> - 2014-05-30 11:04 +0200

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