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Groups > comp.lang.python > #45086

Re: object.enable() anti-pattern

From Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net>
Subject Re: object.enable() anti-pattern
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
References (4 earlier) <518be931$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.1501.1368124461.3114.python-list@python.org> <518c5bbc$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <roy-6D8B98.23095509052013@news.panix.com> <518c7f8e$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID <Hm0jt.6$I26.5@newsfe26.iad> (permalink)
Organization TeraNews.com
Date 2013-05-10 06:22 +0000

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On Fri, 10 May 2013 05:03:10 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>>>> There is no sensible use-case for creating a file OBJECT unless it
>>>> initially wraps an open file pointer.

> So far the only counter-examples given aren't counter-examples ...

Well, sure, if you discount operations like "create this file" and
queries like "could I delete this file if I wanted to?" [0] as methods
of the file system rather than of a hypothetical file object.

What about a distributed system?  Suppose I want to create a file object
in one place, and send that object to the another place for the file to
be read from or written to [1]?  Suppose that for security reasons, I
have to do it that way, because the first place can only create the
objects, and the second place can only access the underly file contents
through an existing object?

I suppose that this case exists even in a non-distributed system that
allows whatever execution unit exists to change its own security
settings (POSIX has setuid and setgid functions), or exposes file ACLs
as methods of file objects rather than of the OS or file system.

What, exactly, does a "file object" represent?

And going back to your original comment (which was actually in response
to one of my posts), at least some operations on python file objects
*could* succeed without having to open the file.  An OS could provide
truncate, or writeable, on un-opened files; and certainly Python could
provide encoding, or isatty, on un-opened files.  Of these, truncate
might be the closest use case of creating a file object without any
intent to write to it, for some definition of "write to it."

Dan

[0] Yes, I understand that asking first instead of trying to delete the
file is just asking to lose any number of potential race conditions,
assuming that your system even supports race conditions.

[1] Think about a multi-threaded (or otherwise distributed) FTP or HTTP
server.  No, don't think about the server vs. the client, but rather a
"core" server overseeing "sub" servers for different sessions.

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Thread

object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-08 08:52 +0000
  Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Christian Heimes <christian@python.org> - 2013-05-08 11:51 +0200
  Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 11:13 +0100
    Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-08 12:30 +0000
  Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-08 09:17 -0400
  Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-08 14:27 +0000
    Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2013-05-09 02:38 +0000
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-09 05:37 +0000
        Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-09 15:52 +1000
    Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-09 03:12 +0000
  Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2013-05-09 02:42 +0000
    Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-09 05:23 +0000
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-05-09 02:41 -0400
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-05-09 19:54 +1200
        Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-05-09 18:23 +1000
          Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-09 11:30 +0000
            Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-05-10 09:36 +1000
              Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-10 05:00 +0000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-10 01:50 -0400
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-10 09:47 +0000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-10 09:22 -0400
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-05-11 08:25 +1000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 20:16 -0700
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2013-05-11 06:21 +0200
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 21:00 -0700
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-05-11 15:04 -0400
        Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Greg Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-05-10 10:56 +1200
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-09 09:07 -0400
        Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-05-09 14:51 +0100
        Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-09 18:21 +0000
          Re: object.enable() anti-pattern MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-05-09 19:34 +0100
            Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-10 02:30 +0000
              Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-09 23:09 -0400
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-05-09 20:19 -0700
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 13:46 +1000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-10 05:03 +0000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2013-05-10 06:22 +0000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-10 11:00 +0000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 13:19 +0100
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-10 10:01 -0400
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 15:29 +0100
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-10 10:37 -0400
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 00:46 +1000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-10 10:54 -0400
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 01:09 +1000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-10 11:21 -0400
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 01:44 +1000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 16:33 +0100
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 18:44 +0300
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern André Malo <ndparker@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 17:33 +0200
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-12 02:04 +1000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 18:20 +0100
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-11 07:51 +0000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-11 09:31 -0400
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 20:55 +0100
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-12 08:39 +1000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 03:24 +1000
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 19:43 -0700
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-05-12 11:48 -0500
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-05-12 16:23 -0400
                Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-05-09 20:51 -0700
              Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 13:08 +1000
          Re: object.enable() anti-pattern roy@panix.com (Roy Smith) - 2013-05-09 14:59 -0400
            Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 07:55 +1000
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-05-10 17:59 +0100
        Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-10 13:32 -0400
          Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-05-11 15:24 -0400
        Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-11 07:05 +0000
  Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 19:53 -0700
  Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 19:56 -0700
  Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-05-09 06:08 -0500
    Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-05-09 11:51 +0000
    Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-05-10 11:43 +1200
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Michael Speer <knomenet@gmail.com> - 2013-05-09 20:18 -0400
        Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-05-09 20:50 -0400
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-05-12 12:14 -0500
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-05-12 16:03 -0400
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Greg Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-05-13 11:18 +1200
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-05-13 07:32 +0100
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-05-13 17:36 +1000
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-05-13 09:09 +0100
      Re: object.enable() anti-pattern Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-05-13 08:15 -0500

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