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Re: Unicode in Python

Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Date 2014-04-21 23:30 -0700
References <mailman.9344.1397878113.18130.python-list@python.org> <7x8ur1esa5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <53539a64$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <de3f2a2d-8163-4059-b0a2-cca08bb2344b@googlegroups.com> <5356082c$0$11109$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID <9f94f6b0-ba35-41dc-95a5-48018412fdf6@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject Re: Unicode in Python
From Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com>

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On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:41:56 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 20:57:39 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:

> > As a unicode user (ok wannabe unicode user :D ) Ive written up some
> > unicode ideas that have been discussed here in the last couple of weeks:
> > http://blog.languager.org/2014/04/unicoded-python.html

> What you are talking about is not handling Unicode with Python, but 
> extending the programming language to allow non-English *letters* to be 
> used as if they were *symbols*.

> That's very problematic, since it assumes that nobody would ever want to 
> use non-English letters in an alphanumeric context. You write:

>     [quote]
>     Now to move ahead!
>     We dont[sic] want

>     >>> λ = 1
>     >>> λ
>     1

>     We want

>     >>> (λx : x+1)(2)
>     3
>     [end quote]


> (Speak for yourself.) But this is a problem. Suppose I want to use a 
> Greek word as a variable, as Python allows me to do:

> λόγος = "a word"

> Or perhaps as the parameter to a function. Take the random.expovariate 
> function, which currently takes an argument "lambd" (since lambda is a 
> reserved word). I might write instead:

> def expovariate(self, λ): ...

> After all, λ is an ordinary letter of the (Greek) alphabet, why shouldn't 
> it be used in variable names? But if "λx" is syntax for "lambda x", then 
> I'm going to get syntax errors:

> λόγος = "a word"
> => like:  lambda όγος = "a word"

> def expovariate(self, λ):
> => like:  def expovariate(self, lambda):

> both of which are obviously syntax errors.

> This is as hostile to Greek-using programmers as deciding that "f" should 
> be reserved for functions would be to English-using programmers:

> # space between the f and the function name is not needed
> fspam(x, y):
>     ...

> class Thingy:
>     f__init__(selF):
>         ...
>     fmethod(selF, arg):
>         return arg + 1

> Notice that I can't even write "self" any more, since that gives a syntax 
> error. Presumable "if" is okay, as it is a keyword.

> Using Unicode *symbols* rather than non-English letters is less of a 
> problem, since they aren't valid in identifiers.

Ok point taken.

So instead of using λ (0x3bb) we should use  𝝀 (0x1d740)  or something thereabouts like 𝜆

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Why Python 3? Anthony Papillion <papillion@gmail.com> - 2014-04-18 22:28 -0500
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        Re: Why Python 3? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 23:42 +1000
        Re: Why Python 3? Albert-Jan Roskam <fomcl@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-19 10:57 -0700
        Re: Why Python 3? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-20 10:07 +0000
    Re: Why Python 3? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 03:25 -0600
      Re: Why Python 3? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-19 12:59 +0300
    Re: Why Python 3? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 19:37 +1000
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        Re: Integer and float division [was Re: Why Python 3?] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-04-21 11:44 +1200
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        Re: Why Python 3? Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2014-04-20 23:50 +0000
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          Re: Why Python 3? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-21 01:11 +0100
    Re: Why Python 3? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-19 18:31 +0100
    Re: Why Python 3? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 03:53 +1000
    Re: Why Python 3? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 13:58 -0600
    Re: Why Python 3? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 06:31 +1000
      Re: Why Python 3? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-04-20 13:06 +1200
        Re: Why Python 3? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 11:28 +1000
          Re: Why Python 3? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-04-21 10:52 +1200
            Re: Why Python 3? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 09:24 +1000
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                Re: Why Python 3? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 14:43 +1000
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                Re: Why Python 3? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-22 08:43 +1000
                Re: Why Python 3? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-04-22 18:03 +1200
        Re: Why Python 3? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-04-20 00:17 -0400
          Re: Why Python 3? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-04-21 11:13 +1200
            Re: Why Python 3? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-04-20 20:09 -0400
    Re: Why Python 3? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 14:38 -0600
    Re: Why Python 3? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 06:53 +1000
      Re: Why Python 3? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-04-20 13:35 +1200
    Re: Why Python 3? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-20 09:59 +0000
      Unicode in Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 20:57 -0700
        Re: Unicode in Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-04-22 01:44 -0400
          Re: Unicode in Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 23:18 -0700
            Re: Unicode in Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-22 16:32 +1000
        Re: Unicode in Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-22 06:11 +0000
          Re: Unicode in Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 23:30 -0700
            Re: Unicode in Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-22 16:44 +1000
            Re: Unicode in Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-04-22 02:07 -0700
              Re: Unicode in Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-22 12:21 +0000
                Re: Unicode in Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-04-22 08:28 -0700
        Re: Unicode in Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-04-22 00:31 -0600
          Re: Unicode in Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-22 02:23 -0700
          Re: Unicode in Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-22 11:09 -0700
    Re: Why Python 3? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 10:22 -0600
      Re: Why Python 3? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-04-21 11:56 +1200
        Re: Why Python 3? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 18:29 -0600
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        Re: Why Python 3? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-21 02:13 +0000
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