Re: Unicode 7

Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Date	2014-05-02 09:50 -0700
References	(6 earlier) <mailman.9639.1398987208.18130.python-list@python.org> <eb56fd65-4729-42db-bcd4-179c19aaf485@googlegroups.com> <53635b34$0$29965$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <0bdd2577-2893-4564-9857-fcfc6021dced@googlegroups.com> <536387b8$0$29965$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID	<5e91529c-c03f-44ee-a610-5697fea167b2@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Unicode 7
From	Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com>

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On Friday, May 2, 2014 5:25:37 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 02 May 2014 03:39:34 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:

> > On Friday, May 2, 2014 2:15:41 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> On Thu, 01 May 2014 19:02:48 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> >> > - Worst of all what we
> >> > *dont* see -- how many others dont see what we see?
> >> Again, this a deficiency of the font. There are very few code points in
> >> Unicode which are intended to be invisible, e.g. space, newline, zero-
> >> width joiner, control characters, etc., but they ought to be equally
> >> invisible to everyone. No printable character should ever be invisible
> >> in any decent font.
> > Thats not what I meant.
> > I wrote http://blog.languager.org/2014/04/unicoded-python.html
> >  – mostly on a debian box.
> > Later on seeing it on a less heavily setup ubuntu box, I see
> >  ⟮ ⟯ ⟬ ⟭ ⦇ ⦈ ⦉ ⦊
> > have become 'missing-glyph' boxes.
> > It leads me ask, how much else of what I am writing, some random reader
> > has simply not seen?
> > Quite simply we can never know – because most are going to go away
> > saying "mojibaked/garbled rubbish"
> > Speaking of what you understood of what I said: Yes invisible chars is
> > another problem I was recently bitten by. I pasted something from google
> > into emacs' org mode. Following that link again I kept getting a broken
> > link.
> > Until I found that the link had an invisible char
> > The problem was that emacs was faithfully rendering that char according
> > to standard, ie invisibly!

> And you've never been bitten by an invisible control character in ASCII 
> text? You've lived a sheltered life!

> Nothing you are describing is unique to Unicode.

Just noticed a small thing in which python does a bit better than haskell:
$ ghci
let (ﬁne, fine) = (1,2)
Prelude> (ﬁne, fine)
(1,2)
Prelude> 

In case its not apparent, the fi in the first fine is a ligature.

Python just barfs:

>>> ﬁne = 1
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    ﬁne = 1
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> 

The point of that example is to show that unicode gives all kind of 
"Aaah! Gotcha!!" opportunities that just dont exist in the old world.
Python may have got this one right but there are surely dozens of others.

On the other hand I see more eagerness for unicode source-text there
eg.

https://github.com/i-tu/Hasklig
http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html#unicode-syntax
http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Unicode-symbols
http://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-unicode-symbols

Some music 𝄞 𝄢 ♭ 𝄱 to appease the utf-8 gods

Thread

Unicode 7 wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-04-29 10:37 -0700
  Re: Unicode 7 Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-04-29 12:59 -0500
    Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-29 21:53 -0700
      Re: Unicode 7 Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-01 05:00 +0000
        Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-01 11:04 -0700
          Re: Unicode 7 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-01 18:38 -0400
            Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-01 19:29 -0700
              Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-01 19:39 -0700
              Re: Unicode 7 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 13:01 +1000
                Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-01 20:16 -0700
              Re: Unicode 7 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-02 01:05 -0400
            Re: Unicode 7 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-02 03:15 +0000
          Re: Unicode 7 MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-02 00:33 +0100
            Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-01 19:02 -0700
              Re: Unicode 7 Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-02 12:39 +1000
                Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-01 19:59 -0700
              Re: Unicode 7 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-02 08:45 +0000
                Re: Unicode 7 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 19:08 +1000
                Re: Unicode 7 Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2014-05-02 13:04 +0300
                Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 03:39 -0700
                Re: Unicode 7 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-02 11:55 +0000
                Re: Unicode 7 Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-02 15:19 +0300
                Re: Unicode 7 Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-03 07:07 +1000
                Re: Unicode 7 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-05-02 17:13 -0400
                Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 09:03 -0700
                Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 09:50 -0700
                Re: Unicode 7 Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 11:39 -0600
                Re: Unicode 7 Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-02 13:46 -0400
                Re: Unicode 7 Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2014-05-02 20:07 +0200
                Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 17:58 -0700
                Re: Unicode 7 Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-05-02 21:18 -0400
                Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 18:42 -0700
                Re: Unicode 7 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-03 11:54 +1000
                Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 19:02 -0700
                Re: Unicode 7 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-03 11:15 +1000
                Re: Unicode 7 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-03 02:02 +0000
                Re: Unicode 7 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-03 02:04 +0000
                Re: Unicode 7 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-03 12:17 +1000
                Re: Unicode 7 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-02 22:19 -0400
                Re: Unicode 7 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-05-03 12:57 -0400
                Re: Unicode 7 Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-05-02 07:58 -0500
              Re: Unicode 7 MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-02 17:52 +0100
          Re: Unicode 7 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-02 00:16 -0400
            Re: Unicode 7 Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-01 21:42 -0700
              Re: Unicode 7 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 14:54 +1000
              Re: Unicode 7 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-02 08:08 +0000
                Re: Unicode 7 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 19:01 +1000
                Re: Unicode 7 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-02 11:52 +0000
                Re: Unicode 7 Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-02 19:16 +1000
                Re: Unicode 7 Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-02 13:05 +0300
                Re: Unicode 7 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-02 19:24 +1000
                Re: Unicode 7 MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-05-02 18:07 +0100
  Re: Unicode 7 MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-04-29 19:12 +0100
    Re: Unicode 7 wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-04-30 00:06 -0700
      Re: Unicode 7 Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-04-30 13:48 -0500
        Re: Unicode 7 wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-04-30 23:00 -0700

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