Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Date	2016-04-19 11:05 -0700
References	(15 earlier) <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com> <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com> <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr> <mailman.31.1461088027.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID	<0a63660e-e1b7-4478-92db-6a3d7cea5b07@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
From	Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com>

Show all headers | View raw

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:17:23 PM UTC+5:30, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2016-04-19 09:46, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > inkscape
> > gimp
> > blender
> > libreoffice writer/calc/prese
> > wireshark
> > skype
> > firefox
> > audacity
> > musescore
> > totem
> > vlc
> > dia
> > 
> > Do these look like text-based apps to you?
> 
> Well, let's take a look at their native file formats:
> 
> Inkscape: SVG
> 
> Libreoffice: compressed XML
> 
> Firefox: HTML+CSS+JS
> 
> Musescore: compressed text
> 
> Dia: compressed XML
> 
> While I haven't used Musescore, I have used the others and
> hand-edited the files in each case.  Using vi/vim, or even ed(1).
> Because I can, and sometimes because I have to in order to do some
> convoluted process that would be a pain to do in a GUI.

If you think xml/html is ok as replacement for text then we have no significant 
disagreement.
That is after all the main point of
http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html
viz that program texts would be better off replacing text with hypertext.
[that html = Hyper Text Markup Language adds to the snark; but does not change
 the message]

The key difference between all the above and state of art in programming
languages is that lexing, parsing is in principle and possibly in practice
'outsourced' to generic XML tools.
With programming languages these are in silos in the innards of the language
implementation.
And so people typically studying compilers etc come to think of lexing and
parsing as important/key activities....
except for a few outliers like Marvin Minsky:
http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/TuringLecture/TuringLecture.html

Thread

Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-16 14:38 +1000
  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-04-16 08:05 +0100
    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-16 11:06 +0300
      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 18:32 +1000
        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-16 11:51 +0300
          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 19:30 +1000
          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Michael Selik <michael.selik@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 09:34 +0000
          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-16 22:03 +1000
          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-16 05:32 -0700
          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 10:53 -0400
            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-16 19:51 +0300
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:58 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-04-16 19:18 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 14:53 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated alex wright <wrightalexw@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 15:21 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-04-16 19:08 -0400
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-04-16 13:25 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-16 21:33 +0300
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-04-16 12:07 -0700
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-17 06:08 +1000
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-16 16:50 -0500
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 08:15 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-17 01:30 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 07:38 -0600
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-04-16 19:02 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-04-17 00:25 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 09:33 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-04-17 01:29 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated alex wright <wrightalexw@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 19:43 -0400
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 09:11 +1000
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 23:19 +0000
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-16 19:12 -0500
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-04-17 01:24 +0100
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-16 20:30 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2016-04-17 16:35 +0200
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-17 13:11 -0500
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-16 21:59 -0400
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 20:44 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:49 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 18:39 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-18 13:19 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 20:48 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated David Palao <dpalao.python@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 13:35 +0200
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-04-17 11:04 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 21:06 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-18 21:03 +1200
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 04:07 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-17 14:01 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 21:14 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-04-17 13:04 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-17 15:10 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-18 08:13 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-18 11:57 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-18 11:02 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-18 20:43 +1200
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-18 12:17 +0300
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated eryk sun <eryksun@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 00:01 -0500
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-17 01:10 -0400
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated eryk sun <eryksun@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 03:14 -0500
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-04-17 12:13 -0400
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated eryk sun <eryksun@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 15:24 -0500
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 14:41 -0600
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-18 11:56 +1200
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-17 20:29 -0400
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Sivan Greenberg <sivan@vitakka.co> - 2016-04-18 16:35 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 22:14 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 15:29 -0600
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 23:20 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-19 17:39 +1200
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-19 08:58 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2016-04-18 18:19 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:04 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-18 23:29 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:54 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-19 00:11 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 05:55 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-19 10:05 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 00:13 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 08:34 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-19 18:04 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-19 11:09 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 18:17 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 04:37 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-19 08:17 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 07:10 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 14:15 +0000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 07:54 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 01:50 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 01:58 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:06 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-04-19 17:13 +0000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 00:24 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 02:14 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 09:46 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-19 12:43 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 11:05 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-19 14:54 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 10:34 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-19 22:02 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 11:38 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 12:21 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-04-19 23:23 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 13:41 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-04-20 02:08 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-04-20 00:48 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 10:24 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 10:26 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-04-20 07:51 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 21:04 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-20 06:50 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 06:59 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-20 00:35 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 11:03 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 21:13 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-20 18:39 +1200
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2016-04-19 14:43 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-04-19 19:20 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 23:22 +0000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 09:33 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-19 19:02 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 10:32 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-19 21:57 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-04-19 01:49 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2016-04-19 11:49 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-19 14:47 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 05:06 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-19 15:14 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-04-19 15:07 +0200
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-19 08:31 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 23:41 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-19 08:50 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Alice Bevan–McGregor <alice@gothcandy.com> - 2016-04-19 10:45 -0400
          Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-17 06:21 +1000
          Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 06:31 +1000
          Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-16 16:44 -0400
            Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2016-04-16 21:22 +0000
              Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 07:34 +1000
                Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2016-04-16 23:35 +0000
                Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-17 11:48 +1000
                Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2016-04-17 03:52 +0000
            Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-17 11:38 +1000
          Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 05:45 +1000

csiph-web