Re: LISP AI folklore

From	Michael Moeller <mmoel@t-online.de>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.lisp
Subject	Re: LISP AI folklore
Date	2011-10-29 15:41 +0200
Message-ID	<9h2e4aFtf4U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
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Am 10/28/2011 05:51 AM, schrieb Antti J Ylikoski:
> 28.10.2011 1:47, Mentifex kirjoitti:
>> On Oct 27, 2:39 pm, Antti J Ylikoski<antti.yliko...@aalto.fi> wrote:
>>>
>>> Arthur I would like to ask:
>>>
>>> * What kind of a background do you have in AI.
>>
>> Since I was a teen-ager I have been an
>> “independent scholar” in artificial intelligence
>> and as such in 2002 I published the
>> http://www.chatbots.org/book/ai4u/
>> volume describing the Mentifex AI project.
>>
>>>
>>> * What kind of a theory is this Mentifex program based on.
>>
>> As an undergraduate in Latin and Greek classics
>> at the University of Washington in Seattle, I
>> was reading Plato in the original Greek and I
>> was deeply impressed with the “De Anima”
>> by Aristotle on the nature of the mind. But I
>> was already far along in my independent AI
>> project, experimenting with electromechanical
>> relays to build switching circuits and alife.
>>
>> http://mind.sourceforge.net/theory5.html
>> is a statement of the AI theory that took
>> me thirteen years to develop, also on-line at
>> http://code.google.com/p/mindforth/wiki/BrainTheory
>> as part of the MindForth project wiki.
>>>
>>> It would significantly increase the credibility
>>> of the Mentifex if you can mention to me some
>>> academic credentials.
>>
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/mentifex
>> shows my BA-in-classics education at
>>
>> • Georg-August-Universität Göttingen
>> • University of California, Berkeley
>> • University of Washington
>>>
>>> And, if the program is not based on a theory .....
>>> (the conclusion is highly evident.)
>>
>> The AI Mind program is so emphatically based on
>> a theory that I draw my very confidence in coding
>> the AI from my eagerness to implement the theory.
>>
>> Currently the Mentifex AI Minds in Forth
>> and in JavaScript can both comprehend
>> and think simple English thoughts in
>> four different formats, with examples:
>> Subject – Predicate – Object (SPO): “Bears eat honey.”
>> Negated SPO: “Bears do not eat computers.”
>> Verbs of being: “I am a person.”
>> Negated be-verbs: “I am not a monster.”
>>
>>> yours sincerely, A. J. Y.
>>
>> Equally sincerely, A. T. M.
>> --
>> http://aimind-i.com
>> http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/AiMind.html
>
> OK, I see.
>
> Anyway -- one of the AI people here said that an individual with no
> academic, scientific background in Artificial Intelligence is very
> unlikely to make any real scientific breakthroughs (quote having been
> paraphased by me).
>
> I agree with that individual.
>
> If you want to have the Mentifex taken seriously by all, I recommend
> that you first read:
>
> #1. Artificial Intelligence, Sixth Edition, by George F. Luger, ISBN
> 978-0-321-54589-3
>
> #2. Artificial Intelligence, A Modern Approach, 3rd Edition, by
> Russell-Norvig, ISBN 978-0-13-604259-4
>
> #3. Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming, by Peter Norvig,
> ISBN 978-1-55860-191-8
>
> for a very, very basic understanding of modern AI research -- and if you
> want to delve into this deeper than the surface so to speak, get and
> read the AAAI conference and the IJCAI conference proceedings e. g. from
> the year 2005 on. After that you can have a more solid look at this
> Mentifex program.
>
> yours, A. J. Y.
>

I'm far from judging Mentifex but I'm afraid from a Prolog point of
view this looks quite familiar. I'd like to suggest reading the
textbooks by Bratko and O'Keefe and working through "Computing with
Logic" by Maier & Warren which is a must read in any case.
In my opinion a 'thinking' program (whatever this may be) has to
provide a solution by means not inherent to code or data, an approach a
human being is capable of. I'm aware we cross the line to philisophy
here and numerous documents exist discussing this. Please refer to
Minsky and Dennet, for example. Anyway, "AI" is the most misleading and
deceptive term in computer science and I'm afraid we won't get far by 
just faking human behavior.

Regrads,
Michael

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Thread

LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-15 13:58 -0700
  Re: LISP AI folklore fortunatus <daniel.eliason@excite.com> - 2011-10-21 13:13 -0700
  Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-22 12:39 +0300
    Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-22 12:31 -0700
      Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-23 11:17 +0300
        Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-23 10:50 -0700
          Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-24 09:06 +0300
            Re: LISP AI folklore Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-24 12:01 +0200
              Re: LISP AI folklore Dr J R Stockton <reply1143@merlyn.demon.co.uk> - 2011-10-25 19:36 +0100
            Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-24 17:16 +0000
              Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-24 20:55 +0300
              Re: LISP AI folklore "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2011-10-24 22:22 +0200
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-25 04:56 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Tim Bradshaw <tfb@tfeb.org> - 2011-10-25 07:48 +0100
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-25 12:28 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Andrew Reilly <areilly---@bigpond.net.au> - 2011-10-25 13:58 +0000
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-26 08:03 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Tim Bradshaw <tfb@tfeb.org> - 2011-10-26 21:17 +0100
                Re: LISP AI folklore Michael Moeller <mmoel@t-online.de> - 2011-10-28 17:13 +0200
                Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-25 14:42 +0000
              Re: LISP AI folklore BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-10-25 17:03 -0700
              Re: LISP AI folklore "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2011-10-26 08:13 -0700
            Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-24 11:54 -0700
              Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-25 05:12 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-25 11:44 -0700
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-26 15:13 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-26 11:12 -0700
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-27 15:52 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2011-10-27 15:08 +0200
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-27 16:58 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2011-10-27 16:16 +0200
                Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-27 16:17 +0000
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 00:32 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Espen Vestre <espen@vestre.net> - 2011-10-28 00:03 +0200
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 06:26 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Espen Vestre <espen@vestre.net> - 2011-10-28 09:32 +0200
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-11-03 16:30 +0200
                Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-27 23:33 +0000
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 06:32 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antony <remove+spam_lisp.linux@gmail.com> - 2011-10-28 01:59 -0700
                Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-28 19:59 +0000
                Re: LISP AI folklore Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2011-10-27 17:31 +0100
                Re: LISP AI folklore "Richard Cornford" <Richard@litotes.demon.co.uk> - 2011-10-27 18:42 +0100
                Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-27 12:39 -0700
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 00:39 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-10-27 15:47 -0700
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 06:51 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 06:56 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-28 14:54 +0200
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 16:04 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Michael Moeller <mmoel@t-online.de> - 2011-10-29 15:41 +0200
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-11-03 16:39 +0200
                Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-29 15:39 +0000
                Re: LISP AI folklore Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2011-11-11 10:34 +0100
                Re: LISP AI folklore Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 11:45 -0800
                Re: LISP AI folklore Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2011-11-11 10:30 +0100
                Re: LISP AI folklore BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-10-26 11:21 -0700
                Re: LISP AI folklore vandys@vsta.org - 2011-10-26 20:11 +0000
                Re: LISP AI folklore "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-10-27 07:42 +1100
                Re: LISP AI folklore BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-10-27 22:47 -0700
                Re: LISP AI folklore John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2011-10-28 11:03 +0100
                Re: LISP AI folklore BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-10-28 11:07 -0700
                Re: LISP AI folklore John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2011-10-29 15:14 +0100
                Re: LISP AI folklore rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2011-10-30 19:43 -0500
                Re: LISP AI folklore Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-10-31 08:45 -0400
                Re: LISP AI folklore Antti J Ylikoski <antti.ylikoski@aalto.fi> - 2011-10-28 18:40 +0300
                Re: LISP AI folklore Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-10-26 19:30 +0000

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