Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.javascript > #8422 > unrolled thread

How to learn this stuff?

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.javascript

Contents

  How to learn this stuff? javascript_stumbler <stumbler@no.invalid> - 2011-11-19 08:20 -0500
    Re: How to learn this stuff? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2011-11-19 18:14 +0000
      Re: How to learn this stuff? "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2011-11-19 18:31 -0200
        Re: How to learn this stuff? Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2011-11-19 17:07 -0700
        Re: How to learn this stuff? "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2011-11-22 03:07 -0200
          Re: How to learn this stuff? Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2011-11-22 09:48 -0700
            Re: How to learn this stuff? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-11-22 19:47 +0100
            Re: How to learn this stuff? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2011-11-23 16:23 +0000
    Re: How to learn this stuff? "P E Schoen" <paul@pstech-inc.com> - 2011-11-19 16:34 -0500
    Re: How to learn this stuff? qulinxao <qulinxao@gmail.com> - 2011-11-20 10:47 -0800

#8422 — How to learn this stuff?

Years ago I started trying to learn Javascript. As I learned I found
that lots of people were just keeping Javascript turned off on their
browsers. This was pretty discouraging so after learning very little
Javascript I just didn't bother anymore. My static HTML pages with
some very tiny bits of rudimentary Javascript were good enough.

At this point I want to make Web pages that are less static. So I want
to see about learning Javascript a lot better than I had done before.

The books I used then, and still have, are:

"Javascript Bible 3rd Edition" by Danny Goodman (c) 1998, published by
IDG Books,

"Javascript The Definitive Guide Third Edition" by David Flanagan
(c)1998 published by O'Reilly.

Both of the above books are 13 years old and cover Javascript 1.2. I
see that Javascript is up to version 1.8.2 in the stable release and
1.8.5 in the "preview release."

As I look through this ng I see disparaging statements to the effect
that all of the books are awful.

So are there any suggestions about how to go about getting decent with
using Javascript? Are my books so out of date that I should just throw
them away? Is the only hope taking a college course (which is out of
the question)?

I've been looking around for some fast advice on a couple of things
and I've seen some stupid stuff regarding Javascript that even I know
is wrong being put forth on the Web by people who are claiming to give
tutorials in Javascript. So are there Web sites that are considered
very good or is the general opinion that the Web sites are a lot like
the books?

Thanks for any help, I guess I'll be hanging around here hoping to
learn something.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#8426

In article <pp9fc7tjr2orvqj04407i0lph6edphlo5c@4ax.com>,
 javascript_stumbler <stumbler@no.invalid> wrote:

> Years ago I started trying to learn Javascript. As I learned I found
> that lots of people were just keeping Javascript turned off on their
> browsers. This was pretty discouraging so after learning very little
> Javascript I just didn't bother anymore. My static HTML pages with
> some very tiny bits of rudimentary Javascript were good enough.
> 
> At this point I want to make Web pages that are less static. So I want
> to see about learning Javascript a lot better than I had done before.
> 
> The books I used then, and still have, are:
> 
> "Javascript Bible 3rd Edition" by Danny Goodman (c) 1998, published by
> IDG Books,
> 
> "Javascript The Definitive Guide Third Edition" by David Flanagan
> (c)1998 published by O'Reilly.

Pay no attention to anyone who says either of these books is useless. 
You should, however, IMO, get the latest editions of each. Goodman's 
book comes with a CD that has extra chapters, and also examples you can 
look at and try.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#8427

On 19/11/2011 16:14, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <pp9fc7tjr2orvqj04407i0lph6edphlo5c@4ax.com>,
> javascript_stumbler <stumbler@no.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Years ago I started trying to learn Javascript. As I learned I found
>> that lots of people were just keeping Javascript turned off on their
>> browsers. This was pretty discouraging so after learning very little
>> Javascript I just didn't bother anymore. My static HTML pages with
>> some very tiny bits of rudimentary Javascript were good enough.
>>
>> At this point I want to make Web pages that are less static. So I want
>> to see about learning Javascript a lot better than I had done before.
>>
>> The books I used then, and still have, are:
>>
>> "Javascript Bible 3rd Edition" by Danny Goodman (c) 1998, published by
>> IDG Books,
>>
>> "Javascript The Definitive Guide Third Edition" by David Flanagan
>> (c)1998 published by O'Reilly.
>
> Pay no attention to anyone who says either of these books is useless.
> You should, however, IMO, get the latest editions of each. Goodman's
> book comes with a CD that has extra chapters, and also examples you can
> look at and try.
>

I'm sorry to disagree with you but Danny Goodman's [cook]book is some of 
the worst books on JavaScript that I have ever read, specially when it 
comes down to cross-browser script recipes: the scripts about Ajax and 
animation, for instance, are of no use in production. Although some 
chapters are okay, I'd suggest that you forget it!

Some other good books that I own and recommend (but don't put too much 
trust in them, because even good books have their own mistakes): Douglas 
Crockford - The Good Parts; Stoyan Stefanov - JS Patterns. You may find 
some interesting discussions / reviews about Crockford's book in here 
[c.l.js].

Don't forget to download and have your own copy of the latest ECMAScript 
Language Specification:
<http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm>

-- 
Joao Rodrigues (J.R.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#8431

On 11/19/2011 1:31 PM, J.R. wrote:
> Don't forget to download and have your own copy of the latest ECMAScript
> Language Specification:
> <http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm>

A little-known fact is that the ECMA-262 Specification (5th edition)
is available as an HTML document (complete with drop-down navigation
on the top-left corner).

http://ecma262-5.com/ELS5_HTML.htm

-- 
Matt McDonald: Web/Flash Developer; Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#8519

On 19/11/2011 18:31, J.R. wrote:
> On 19/11/2011 16:14, Tim Streater wrote:
>> In article <pp9fc7tjr2orvqj04407i0lph6edphlo5c@4ax.com>,
>> javascript_stumbler <stumbler@no.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Years ago I started trying to learn Javascript. As I learned I found
>>> that lots of people were just keeping Javascript turned off on their
>>> browsers. This was pretty discouraging so after learning very little
>>> Javascript I just didn't bother anymore. My static HTML pages with
>>> some very tiny bits of rudimentary Javascript were good enough.
>>>
>>> At this point I want to make Web pages that are less static. So I want
>>> to see about learning Javascript a lot better than I had done before.
>>>
>>> The books I used then, and still have, are:
>>>
>>> "Javascript Bible 3rd Edition" by Danny Goodman (c) 1998, published by
>>> IDG Books,
>>>
>>> "Javascript The Definitive Guide Third Edition" by David Flanagan
>>> (c)1998 published by O'Reilly.
>>
>> Pay no attention to anyone who says either of these books is useless.
>> You should, however, IMO, get the latest editions of each. Goodman's
>> book comes with a CD that has extra chapters, and also examples you can
>> look at and try.
>>
>
> I'm sorry to disagree with you but Danny Goodman's [cook]book is some of
> the worst books on JavaScript that I have ever read, specially when it
> comes down to cross-browser script recipes: the scripts about Ajax and
> animation, for instance, are of no use in production. Although some
> chapters are okay, I'd suggest that you forget it!
>
> Some other good books that I own and recommend (but don't put too much
> trust in them, because even good books have their own mistakes): Douglas
> Crockford - The Good Parts; Stoyan Stefanov - JS Patterns. You may find
> some interesting discussions / reviews about Crockford's book in here
> [c.l.js].
>
> Don't forget to download and have your own copy of the latest ECMAScript
> Language Specification:
> <http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm>
>

I'd also suggest reading the c.l.js FAQ about recommended books:
<http://www.jibbering.com/faq/#books>

Richard Cornford once said that Flanagan's book is the "least bad 
JavaScript book" to be recommended:
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/msg/6a6bf6e61abe2363>

-- 
Joao Rodrigues (J.R.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#8530

On 11-11-21 10:07 PM, J.R. wrote:
> I'd also suggest reading the c.l.js FAQ about recommended books:
> <http://www.jibbering.com/faq/#books>

"...The Good Parts" is really the only JS book currently
worth reading. It's short, but very concise and informative.
If one is strapped for cash or interested in further learning,
Crockford has at least a dozen "talks" available for free viewing
(via Yahoo!, YouTube, etc). He covers far more in these "talks"
than his books.

> Richard Cornford once said that Flanagan's book is the "least bad
> JavaScript book" to be recommended:
> [...]

Having made the mistake of purchasing that book, I'd like to caution
others against doing the same. The last "good" edition (edition 5) was
essentially an encyclopedia that taught me next to nothing. Better
information is available via the W3 (DOM, etc) and ECMA specs.

Edition 6 came out earlier this year. Among its "revisions" is an entire
chapter on jQuery and some assorted canvas bits. Avoid at all costs.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#8539

Matt McDonald wrote:

> J.R. wrote:
>> I'd also suggest reading the c.l.js FAQ about recommended books:
>> <http://www.jibbering.com/faq/#books>
> 
> "...The Good Parts" is really the only JS book currently
> worth reading. It's short, but very concise and informative.
> If one is strapped for cash or interested in further learning,
> Crockford has at least a dozen "talks" available for free viewing
> (via Yahoo!, YouTube, etc). He covers far more in these "talks"
> than his books.

While they are informative (especially about the history of JavaScript, 
JScript and ECMAScript), they still contain some erroneous notions of 
Crockford, like that JavaScript and JScript were the same language (so far I 
have only see the first talk, and this is one thing that stuck).  They are 
not.
 

PointedEars
-- 
    realism:    HTML 4.01 Strict
    evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
    madness:    XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
                                                    -- Bjoern Hoehrmann

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#8569

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 at 09:48:10, in comp.lang.javascript, Matt McDonald
wrote:
>On 11-11-21 10:07 PM, J.R. wrote:
>> I'd also suggest reading the c.l.js FAQ about recommended books:
>> <http://www.jibbering.com/faq/#books>
>
>"...The Good Parts" is really the only JS book currently
>worth reading. It's short, but very concise and informative.
  <snip>

That book should be read only by people who are familiar with other OO
languages and their implementations and also familiar with ECMAScript.
That way they'll be able to recognise the lies, confusions, and
ridiculous complications in the book.

  John
-- 
John Harris

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#8428

"javascript_stumbler"  wrote in message 
news:pp9fc7tjr2orvqj04407i0lph6edphlo5c@4ax.com...

> The books I used then, and still have, are:

> "Javascript Bible 3rd Edition" by Danny Goodman (c) 1998,
> published by IDG Books,

> "Javascript The Definitive Guide Third Edition" by David
> Flanagan (c)1998 published by O'Reilly.

I think I have those same books, which I purchased cheaply some time ago 
when they were only about five years old and thus more useful. They still 
may help with basic concepts, but I found that it was usually better to use 
on-line resources, especially now that I have high-speed access and loading 
times are no longer significant.

I have two more recent books that I got cheap (or free), and are OK:

"Creating Cool Websites" (with HTML, XHTML, and CSS), by Dave Taylor, Wiley 
2004. (Includes JavaScript and some CGI)

"Professional JavaScript for Web Developers" by Nicholas C. Zakas, Wiley 
2005.

Sometimes I just like to sit back with a book and read one or two chapters, 
and often I discover things I did not know, or understood poorly. Usually, 
however, I have a specific task I need to perform on a web page (or even a 
local script using WSH), and I do an on-line search to find examples, and 
then try to understand them and modify them for my own use.

In my case JavaScript is more of a sideline to my main skills of electronics 
design. But that uses a lot of software development these days, which 
includes Windows GUI (I use Borland Delphi), PIC code (using assembler and 
C), and even HTML with JavaScript for a wireless tablet interface to the 
hardware, which appears as a web page on a server which is implemented on an 
Ethernet-enabled device.

There are also many tutorials on youtube, such as 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t3ZysHg3Cc. The format for learning 
information may differ among various people. I like to use a "hands-on" 
approach of trying things until I get what I want, but sometimes it's 
necessary to go back to some basic fundamentals which may be best learned in 
an organized and comprehensive manner which might be accomplished by a 
structured tutorial. And there are pros and cons to reading books, watching 
videos, interacting with a human teacher, or working with an interactive 
website. Hands-on versus watching versus listening.

Of course, the definitive source is the official standard. And this 
newsgroup is very helpful when there is an unusual problem and all the usual 
resources have been exhausted.

HTH,

Paul 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#8497

as already say is good for advising fro ECMAScript definition

*for leaning is good :

eloquent Javascript:   http://eloquentjavascript.net/

plus  http://www.codecademy.com/

and JavaScript: Good parts is good tutorial

anyway exist lists of books for education in Javascript :
 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/74884/good-javascript-books



in eloquent is good console but try in chrome or in firefox
javascript console for testing litle examples of javascript

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.javascript

csiph-web