Re: Google Dart Released Today

From	dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.javascript
Subject	Re: Google Dart Released Today
Date	2011-10-12 21:04 -0700
Organization	http://groups.google.com
Message-ID	<76c7cd5e-be68-45a1-b3d9-e0e53bd21c7e@z14g2000prk.googlegroups.com> (permalink)
References	<cb47d781-dc6b-4e5b-9ccb-6e1d18edcf3b@l30g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <j75g1d$u72$1@dont-email.me>

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On Oct 12, 6:48 pm, Matt McDonald <m...@fortybelow.ca> wrote:
> On 10/10/2011 11:44 AM, dhtml wrote:
>
> > Dart is a new language by Google with new syntax and new operators.
> >  [...]
>
> Aside from the supremely bloated language, what I found most concerning
> was the DOM interpretation Google are implementing.
>
> I picked up the following link from Twitter today:http://www.dartlang.org/articles/improving-the-dom/
>
> The first folly begins in the third section entitled
> "Better querying". It seems that the myriad of NodeList-fetching
> methods and HTMLCollection-fetching properties are too verbose,
> and not expressive enough. The solution? Why, CSS-style querying,
> of course! Certainly, nothing beats a square peg lovingly jammed
> into a triangular hole. The religious blurb in the jQuery paragraph
> says it all, really.
>
> Next up, we have a "collections" section. Here, the Dart team
> have implemented an HTML 5 classList API, except using attributes.
> What a nice way to remind developers of the (ir)relevance of
> attributes.

That would be true only if they are clear about the difference between
attributes and properties. It is a disturbingly common mistake, and
particularly so after all the noise on this NG and after that long
article I wrote.

Again, we should see some code. Somebody go download this thing and
make a gist, etc.

[...]

> Now, on to DOM element construction. Dart's DOM improvisations
> propose drudging up the Element constructor.
The syntax difference is minimal to me. I don't mind much either way
of:

| document.createElement("div");
| new Element.tag("div");

Though the latter starts with "new". The only problem with that is
that they have now to create some unnecessary delegation. They
possibly have to contend with error propagation where createElement
throws.

Given a standard and wide browser support for `new Element.tag` sure,
that'd be fine, but that is not reality. Just
`document.createElement("div")` works.

Thought that was
> bad enough? How about a jQuery-inspired innerHTML wrapper?
> Nothing beats kludging through strings instead of nodes!
>
That's not a bad idea for a spec proposal, per se, but like with `new
Element.tag` it isn't natively supported or specified anywhere except
by Google. This means an additional abstraction layer is required
(Dart DOM library), and that must be downloaded, interpreted, run by
the device, and stepped through when debugging.

The jQuery wrapper tries again to do something general with innerHTML
and innerHTML has a lot of quirks. That's not to say innerHTML is bad,
but it is wildly inconsistent. The other problem with the way
`jquery.buildFragment` is designed is that it uses overloading and
typechecking with using host objects. That doesn't work.

But what is inherently wrong with building HTML fragments with
strings?

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/browse_thread/thread/6f97e834996670c3
--
Garrett

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Google Dart Released Today dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-10 10:44 -0700
  Re: Google Dart Released Today "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2011-10-10 14:24 -0700
    Re: Google Dart Released Today dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-10 22:36 -0700
      Re: Google Dart Released Today David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2011-10-10 23:41 -0700
      Re: Google Dart Released Today "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2011-10-11 05:33 -0700
        Re: Google Dart Released Today dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-11 14:06 -0700
          Re: Google Dart Released Today Swifty <steve.j.swift@gmail.com> - 2011-10-12 07:13 +0100
      closure bindings (was: Google Dart Released Today) Andreas Bergmaier <andber93@web.de> - 2011-10-11 23:56 +0200
        Re: closure bindings (was: Google Dart Released Today) David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2011-10-11 16:20 -0700
        Re: closure bindings Bwig Zomberi <zomberiMAPSONNOSPAM@gmail.invalid> - 2011-10-12 15:02 +0530
          Re: closure bindings Antony Scriven <adscriven@gmail.com> - 2011-10-12 05:12 -0700
            Re: closure bindings dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-12 18:27 -0700
        Re: closure bindings Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-12 13:24 +0200
          Re: closure bindings "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2011-10-12 08:56 -0700
            Re: closure bindings Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-12 21:15 +0200
              Re: closure bindings "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2011-10-12 15:21 -0700
                Re: closure bindings Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-13 20:56 +0200
                Re: closure bindings Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-13 21:36 +0200
                Re: closure bindings "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2011-10-13 16:41 -0700
                Re: closure bindings dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-13 22:39 -0700
                Re: closure bindings "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2011-10-14 09:03 -0700
                Re: closure bindings Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-14 20:05 +0200
              Re: closure bindings dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-12 18:38 -0700
                Re: closure bindings Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-14 23:34 +0200
                Re: closure bindings dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-14 16:56 -0700
                Re: closure bindings Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-10-15 02:44 +0200
                Re: closure bindings dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-14 21:18 -0700
            Re: closure bindings David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2011-10-12 18:28 -0700
      Re: Google Dart Released Today Antony Scriven <adscriven@gmail.com> - 2011-10-11 15:13 -0700
        Re: Google Dart Released Today dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-11 22:33 -0700
      Re: Google Dart Released Today Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2011-10-12 07:27 -0700
        Re: Google Dart Released Today dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-12 18:29 -0700
        Re: Google Dart Released Today Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2011-10-13 08:21 +0000
          Re: Google Dart Released Today Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2011-10-13 04:46 -0700
            Re: Google Dart Released Today unbewusst.sein@fai.invalid (Une Bévue) - 2011-10-13 14:03 +0200
              Re: Google Dart Released Today Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2011-10-13 12:40 +0000
                Re: Google Dart Released Today unbewusst.sein@fai.invalid (Une Bévue) - 2011-10-13 17:51 +0200
            Re: Google Dart Released Today Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2011-10-13 13:31 +0000
              Re: Google Dart Released Today Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2011-10-13 15:17 +0000
            Re: Google Dart Released Today Karl Tikjøb Krukow <karl.krukow@gmail.com> - 2011-10-14 13:02 +0200
              Re: Google Dart Released Today dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-14 12:36 -0700
                Re: Google Dart Released Today Karl Tikjøb Krukow <karl.krukow@gmail.com> - 2011-10-15 19:30 +0200
  Re: Google Dart Released Today David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2011-10-10 22:23 -0700
  Re: Google Dart Released Today Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2011-10-12 19:48 -0600
    Re: Google Dart Released Today dhtml <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-12 21:04 -0700

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