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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #12296 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Novice <novice@example..com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-02-24 20:10 +0000 |
| Last post | 2012-02-25 00:22 +0000 |
| Articles | 7 on this page of 167 — 14 participants |
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Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-24 20:10 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-24 13:05 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-25 05:47 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-24 23:40 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-25 17:02 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-25 12:08 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-25 22:12 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-25 14:27 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-25 23:29 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-25 18:33 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-26 14:38 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 10:49 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 10:53 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-26 18:17 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-25 16:01 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-26 17:22 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 12:25 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-26 21:08 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 18:33 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 17:05 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 20:18 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 21:29 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-27 05:44 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-27 21:37 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-28 00:04 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-28 01:39 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-29 14:54 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-28 17:24 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 04:53 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-02 17:08 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 05:12 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 21:38 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 17:27 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-27 12:22 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 22:50 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-27 17:24 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-29 15:00 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-02-29 09:14 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-29 09:55 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-29 21:31 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-29 23:06 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-02 04:33 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-04 23:00 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-04 17:07 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-05 15:33 +0000
JavaDoc linking (Was: Aspect questions?) Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-03-05 08:38 -0800
Re: JavaDoc linking (Was: Aspect questions?) Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-05 17:40 +0000
Re: JavaDoc linking (Was: Aspect questions?) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-03-05 21:25 -0800
Re: JavaDoc linking (Was: Aspect questions?) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-06 17:23 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-05 23:45 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-06 06:03 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-06 21:05 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-02 17:11 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-02 17:09 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-26 23:43 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 05:20 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-26 21:32 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 17:36 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-27 13:18 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-27 14:05 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-27 14:33 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-27 14:53 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-27 15:16 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-27 17:57 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 22:59 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-28 05:50 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-29 15:03 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-27 13:17 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 22:55 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-27 05:58 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 18:14 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-28 00:12 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-28 02:04 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-27 21:22 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-29 15:11 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-02 17:14 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-28 23:09 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-29 15:25 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-03-01 00:22 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-01 01:44 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-29 23:24 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-03-01 21:19 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-02 01:52 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-03-03 01:39 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-05 15:38 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-03-05 22:50 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-05 23:46 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-03-06 08:14 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-06 21:23 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-08 20:10 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-02 01:49 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-01 22:38 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-02 06:05 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-02 14:25 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-02 18:10 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-02 14:12 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-02 08:57 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-05 15:57 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-05 23:48 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-03-07 20:33 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-03-07 13:09 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-02 17:20 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-02 14:28 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-02 17:16 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-26 10:10 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-26 20:52 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 13:48 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 13:47 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 18:40 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 18:36 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-26 16:04 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 19:38 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 17:09 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-26 20:08 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 19:43 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-27 22:03 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-27 21:18 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 13:43 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 01:11 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 21:49 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-27 18:37 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-27 12:28 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-28 00:55 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-27 17:37 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-29 15:57 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-28 03:21 -0600
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-28 09:19 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-27 21:12 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-28 05:59 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-28 17:27 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-29 16:07 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-02 17:26 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-25 18:22 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-25 20:22 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-25 22:20 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-26 00:04 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 00:21 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 00:33 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 10:43 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-26 11:18 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-26 11:04 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-26 10:22 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-26 21:04 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 14:01 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 18:46 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 09:50 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 10:38 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-26 20:49 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? jlp <jlp@jlp.com> - 2012-02-25 09:47 +0100
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-25 17:03 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? jlp <jlp@jlp.com> - 2012-02-25 20:02 +0100
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-25 10:20 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-25 08:18 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-25 12:04 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-25 17:17 +0000
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-25 18:40 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-25 18:18 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-25 09:21 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-02-25 14:35 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? markspace <-@.> - 2012-02-24 14:30 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-24 19:47 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-24 20:52 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-25 09:31 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-25 11:05 -0400
Re: Aspect questions? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-25 12:20 -0800
Re: Aspect questions? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-24 19:00 -0500
Re: Aspect questions? Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2012-02-25 00:22 +0000
Page 9 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9]
| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-24 19:47 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <4f482fbd$0$282$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #12299 |
On 2/24/2012 5:30 PM, markspace wrote: > On 2/24/2012 12:10 PM, Novice wrote: >> I don't recall ever seeing anyone ask aspect-oriented questions but I >> certainly don't read every thread or even every subject line so I could >> have missed some.... > > I'm not an expert on Aspects or CDI, but I feel that AoP has largely > been replaced in the Java world by CDI (Context and Dependency > Injection). Which is perhaps why you haven't seen much discussion of AoP. I don't agree with that. I see very little overlap between what one would use CDI for and what one would use AspectJ for. > AoP is probably important in some fields of research and with other > languages, or with specialized systems. But most of us here are > generalists, and AoP doesn't seem to be used much, if at all, in general > Java programming. AOP is not as hot as it was 5 years ago. But it is used in the Java world. But mostly in frameworks and not so much in business code. I believe several well known Java frameworks/apps uses AspectJ including Spring and JBoss. Arne
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| From | Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-24 20:52 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ji9pdl$q2i$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #12306 |
On 02/24/2012 04:47 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > On 2/24/2012 5:30 PM, markspace wrote: >> On 2/24/2012 12:10 PM, Novice wrote: >>> I don't recall ever seeing anyone ask aspect-oriented questions but I >>> certainly don't read every thread or even every subject line so I could >>> have missed some.... >> >> I'm not an expert on Aspects or CDI, but I feel that AoP has largely >> been replaced in the Java world by CDI (Context and Dependency >> Injection). Which is perhaps why you haven't seen much discussion of AoP. > > I don't agree with that. I see very little overlap between what one > would use CDI for and what one would use AspectJ for. > >> AoP is probably important in some fields of research and with other >> languages, or with specialized systems. But most of us here are >> generalists, and AoP doesn't seem to be used much, if at all, in general >> Java programming. > > AOP is not as hot as it was 5 years ago. > > But it is used in the Java world. > > But mostly in frameworks and not so much in business code. > > I believe several well known Java frameworks/apps uses > AspectJ including Spring and JBoss. It is as you say. There are niches where bytecode weaving does wonders. JPA is another such. But there's a Law of Demeter thing going on. When you use JPA, or Spring, or JBoss, you don't normally think about the bytecode rewrites; they exist in a dark layer hidden by the framework. In a manner of speaking CDI and annotations generally are bytecode weavers, but that isn't exactly right. Let's say they are cousins, in the same tribe as reflection. Like all in that tribe, they share attributes of secrecy, complication and the need to operate in isolation from more conventional system components. In return they give you great magic. In a well-designed framework those difficulties are covered for you. If you're a framework developer, more power to you. You'll need it for the great responsibility. -- Lew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XChxLGnIwCU
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-25 09:31 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <4f48f0c3$0$281$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #12309 |
On 2/24/2012 11:52 PM, Lew wrote:
> On 02/24/2012 04:47 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 2/24/2012 5:30 PM, markspace wrote:
>>> On 2/24/2012 12:10 PM, Novice wrote:
>>>> I don't recall ever seeing anyone ask aspect-oriented questions but I
>>>> certainly don't read every thread or even every subject line so I could
>>>> have missed some....
>>>
>>> I'm not an expert on Aspects or CDI, but I feel that AoP has largely
>>> been replaced in the Java world by CDI (Context and Dependency
>>> Injection). Which is perhaps why you haven't seen much discussion of
>>> AoP.
>>
>> I don't agree with that. I see very little overlap between what one
>> would use CDI for and what one would use AspectJ for.
>>
>>> AoP is probably important in some fields of research and with other
>>> languages, or with specialized systems. But most of us here are
>>> generalists, and AoP doesn't seem to be used much, if at all, in general
>>> Java programming.
>>
>> AOP is not as hot as it was 5 years ago.
>>
>> But it is used in the Java world.
>>
>> But mostly in frameworks and not so much in business code.
>>
>> I believe several well known Java frameworks/apps uses
>> AspectJ including Spring and JBoss.
>
> It is as you say. There are niches where bytecode weaving does wonders.
> JPA is another such. But there's a Law of Demeter thing going on. When
> you use JPA, or Spring, or JBoss, you don't normally think about the
> bytecode rewrites; they exist in a dark layer hidden by the framework.
>
> In a manner of speaking CDI and annotations generally are bytecode
> weavers, but that isn't exactly right. Let's say they are cousins, in
> the same tribe as reflection.
Dynamic weaving may be in the same tribe as annotations/DI/reflection,
but static weaving is more in the tribe of another language.
> Like all in that tribe, they share
> attributes of secrecy, complication and the need to operate in isolation
> from more conventional system components. In return they give you great
> magic.
>
> In a well-designed framework those difficulties are covered for you. If
> you're a framework developer, more power to you. You'll need it for the
> great responsibility.
The problems with AOP like AspectJ is that:
1) it is a more complex language than pure Java
2) it can be very difficult to read the code, because
the original Java class source code has no references
to the aspects weaved in, so it can be a problem finding
those
And the consequence of that combined with the skill sets of
the average Java business code developer is that AOP has
somewhat been delegated to frameworks.
But that was not the original intention with AOP. It was
expected to be used for ordinary business code.
Arne
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| From | Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-25 11:05 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <KM62r.19377$cL.4376@newsfe17.iad> |
| In reply to | #12309 |
On 12-02-25 12:52 AM, Lew wrote: > On 02/24/2012 04:47 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 2/24/2012 5:30 PM, markspace wrote: >>> On 2/24/2012 12:10 PM, Novice wrote: >>>> I don't recall ever seeing anyone ask aspect-oriented questions but I >>>> certainly don't read every thread or even every subject line so I could >>>> have missed some.... >>> >>> I'm not an expert on Aspects or CDI, but I feel that AoP has largely >>> been replaced in the Java world by CDI (Context and Dependency >>> Injection). Which is perhaps why you haven't seen much discussion of >>> AoP. >> >> I don't agree with that. I see very little overlap between what one >> would use CDI for and what one would use AspectJ for. >> >>> AoP is probably important in some fields of research and with other >>> languages, or with specialized systems. But most of us here are >>> generalists, and AoP doesn't seem to be used much, if at all, in general >>> Java programming. >> >> AOP is not as hot as it was 5 years ago. >> >> But it is used in the Java world. >> >> But mostly in frameworks and not so much in business code. >> >> I believe several well known Java frameworks/apps uses >> AspectJ including Spring and JBoss. > > It is as you say. There are niches where bytecode weaving does wonders. > JPA is another such. But there's a Law of Demeter thing going on. When > you use JPA, or Spring, or JBoss, you don't normally think about the > bytecode rewrites; they exist in a dark layer hidden by the framework. > > In a manner of speaking CDI and annotations generally are bytecode > weavers, but that isn't exactly right. Let's say they are cousins, in > the same tribe as reflection. Like all in that tribe, they share > attributes of secrecy, complication and the need to operate in isolation > from more conventional system components. In return they give you great > magic. > > In a well-designed framework those difficulties are covered for you. If > you're a framework developer, more power to you. You'll need it for the > great responsibility. > Another thing to consider is that every extra layer of bytecode manipulation you add is another source of conflict. You might have EclipseLink JPA doing weaving. AspectJ might be weaving. You might be using AgitarOne for generating JUnit tests for legacy code. You might be using Emma or Cobertura for code coverage, both of which instrument with weaving. JRebel also does class rewriting. I've run into situations many times - since I have used all of the above - where one had to be careful about what order to have these bits weave. Sometimes you can't control that, and you hope the combo works. In a number of cases you simply cannot use two weavers together (I've found it impossible to combine JRebel and EclipseLink with lazy weaving for example). I have no problem with bytecode rewriting, but the developer needs to be aware of what's already there (maybe they are using EclipseLink JPA as part of their Java EE) before they start adding extra layers of it. AHS -- -- Gaiety is the most outstanding feature of the Soviet Union. Josef Stalin, November 1935
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| From | Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-25 12:20 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <jibfpv$flv$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #12318 |
Arved Sandstrom wrote: > Another thing to consider is that every extra layer of bytecode > manipulation you add is another source of conflict. You might have > EclipseLink JPA doing weaving. AspectJ might be weaving. You might be > using AgitarOne for generating JUnit tests for legacy code. You might be > using Emma or Cobertura for code coverage, both of which instrument with > weaving. JRebel also does class rewriting. > > I've run into situations many times - since I have used all of the above > - where one had to be careful about what order to have these bits weave. > Sometimes you can't control that, and you hope the combo works. In a > number of cases you simply cannot use two weavers together (I've found > it impossible to combine JRebel and EclipseLink with lazy weaving for > example). > > I have no problem with bytecode rewriting, but the developer needs to be > aware of what's already there (maybe they are using EclipseLink JPA as > part of their Java EE) before they start adding extra layers of it. Thank you, Arved. This exactly illustrates what I was trying to say about frameworks adding deployment complexity. It's not just the code that counts. Things have to actually run on actual computers. Check it out - you'll discover that ops personnel are smarter than we programmers. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-24 19:00 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <4f4824ab$0$284$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #12296 |
On 2/24/2012 3:10 PM, Novice wrote: > Is this a reasonable place to ask questions about AspectJ? I would say so. AspectJ is almost entirely used to weave Java code into Java code, so pretty much on topic I would say. > I'm just getting started with it and it's not going really well so far. I'm > imitating simple examples from the manual and they just don't work. I'm not > sure what I'm messing up.... You will need to post specific info. > I don't recall ever seeing anyone ask aspect-oriented questions but I > certainly don't read every thread or even every subject line so I could > have missed some.... Actually I do not remember an AspectJ question either. But solutions based on AspectJ has been suggested for hard problems occasionally. (I know for sure, because I have done it) Arne
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| From | Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-25 00:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.DEB.2.00.1202250021460.12232@urchin.earth.li> |
| In reply to | #12296 |
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012, Novice wrote: > Is this a reasonable place to ask questions about AspectJ? > > I'm just getting started with it and it's not going really well so far. > I'm imitating simple examples from the manual and they just don't work. > I'm not sure what I'm messing up.... What does your java command line look like? Are you loading any necessary agent? tom -- Well, traditionally they are the main constituent of boobs. -- Andrzej Rosa, on why lipids are popular
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