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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #7405 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2011-08-26 20:56 -0400 |
| Last post | 2011-08-31 00:31 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 182 — 33 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.java.programmer
Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-08-26 20:56 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-08-27 09:58 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Rajiv Gupta <rajiv@invalid.com> - 2011-08-27 18:02 +1000
Re: Style Police (a rant) v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2011-08-27 08:40 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 13:27 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 13:33 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-08-27 11:08 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 08:34 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 08:37 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 17:59 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 18:06 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 18:08 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 09:50 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 19:15 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 13:09 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 23:18 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 16:10 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-28 01:59 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 18:59 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-28 15:32 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-28 13:09 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-29 04:02 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-28 19:20 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-29 09:44 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-29 08:30 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-08-29 16:37 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-29 12:10 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-08-29 18:21 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-29 04:06 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-10 06:45 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-10 11:40 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-10 14:06 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 14:07 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 10:55 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 23:34 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 10:58 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-09-11 10:12 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-14 12:22 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Bent C Dalager <bcd@pvv.ntnu.no> - 2011-09-14 15:04 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Paul Cager <paul.cager@googlemail.com> - 2011-09-14 09:36 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 09:47 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 23:32 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-17 00:57 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-17 19:56 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-11 21:20 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-11 17:11 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-12 01:22 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 21:13 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 16:54 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-11 23:42 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 21:54 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-13 07:18 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-13 10:07 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 08:15 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-13 12:00 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-13 10:10 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 09:55 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-15 10:37 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_9112011@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-15 22:58 -0400
Murphy = Troll [DO NOT FEED] thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-16 00:23 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-16 03:26 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) un-Bent <dob@dib.dib.null> - 2011-09-16 13:02 +0000
Murphy = Troll [DO NOT FEED] thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-16 22:40 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-17 19:36 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "kaffel'latte" <jiggingjava@qmail.net> - 2011-09-19 08:58 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-19 11:56 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "kaffel'latte" <jiggingjava@qmail.net> - 2011-09-19 17:05 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-19 19:13 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) k00k Derbyshire spins freely "kaffel'latte" <jiggingjava@qmail.net> - 2011-09-19 20:45 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) k00k Derbyshire spins freely thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-21 18:37 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-26 15:13 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-26 19:34 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 06:49 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 09:21 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-10-01 14:17 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-01 20:53 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-10-01 21:12 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-05 06:17 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 04:56 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 05:12 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 04:59 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 05:13 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 23:17 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 21:12 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-12 07:36 -0300
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 04:58 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 05:12 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-11 15:33 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 09:42 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2011-09-11 20:35 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 16:55 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 20:36 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2011-09-12 10:05 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 15:35 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2011-09-13 10:35 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 09:48 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 12:18 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 17:30 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 21:59 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Joe Attardi <jattardi@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 10:54 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-24 01:54 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-09-24 02:58 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-24 11:35 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Joe Attardi <jattardi@gmail.com> - 2011-09-26 13:50 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> - 2011-09-26 21:14 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-26 17:50 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-11-04 15:56 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-11-07 12:04 -0500
Re: Style Police (a rant) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-11-10 15:22 -0800
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-26 17:47 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-11-04 15:48 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> - 2011-11-05 07:58 -0500
Re: Style Police (a rant) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-11-10 15:17 -0800
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-26 15:17 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> - 2011-09-27 00:50 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) tisue@cs.nwu.edu (Seth Tisue) - 2011-09-27 08:55 -0600
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-27 14:14 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-27 14:11 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 07:31 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-26 22:24 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> - 2011-09-27 09:30 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) tisue@cs.nwu.edu (Seth Tisue) - 2011-09-27 08:57 -0600
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-27 14:38 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-27 14:36 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-09-30 15:58 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 07:32 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-30 21:26 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 07:34 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-01 15:51 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-05 06:18 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-10-01 16:26 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-10-01 21:25 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-05 06:23 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-10-05 10:01 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-07 08:29 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-10-07 17:34 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 21:58 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 04:52 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 05:14 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 06:42 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 07:20 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 08:46 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-12 21:03 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-09-12 20:18 +0100
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-11 21:20 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 13:52 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-12 00:17 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-10 21:32 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-11 13:27 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 11:05 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 13:23 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-09-11 10:04 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-11 12:45 -0300
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 16:53 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-14 12:30 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-09-14 20:47 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-14 18:06 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-15 10:06 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-09-20 11:28 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-09-20 07:36 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-20 13:04 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-20 20:34 -0300
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-14 22:33 -0300
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-15 13:46 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-14 21:40 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 10:59 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 21:25 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-08-27 14:00 +0100
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 08:42 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-08-27 11:58 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-28 08:21 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-08-28 18:07 -0300
Re: Style Police (a rant) Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-08-29 04:20 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2011-08-29 09:11 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-08-29 20:50 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-08-30 11:27 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 09:36 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-08-30 17:51 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2011-08-30 08:51 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-08-30 09:04 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 09:43 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2011-08-31 00:31 +0200
Page 8 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 … 6 7 [8] 9 10 Next page →
| From | Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-12 07:20 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j4kpu0$1ru$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #7882 |
On 12/09/2011 6:42 AM, Cthun did not write: > what does murphy have to do with Java, murphy? Why are you talking to yourself, you fucking forging liar? > you cannot win murphy! I have all these names to use > every time I turn my modem off and on. Just like you told me! Yeah, murphy aka phlatArse aka news in service aka Flash(r) aka glyph aka eye aka Stefan Robacki aka David Liphtmon aka wurm aka FNTS-2011 aka Yannick Wurm aka who knows how many other nyms. Why don't you just do as you promised, make like a tree, and leave?
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| From | "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-12 08:46 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j4krnh$779$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #7885 |
On 12/09/2011 7:20 AM, Cthun did not write: >On 12/09/2011 6:42 AM, Cthun did write: >> what does murphy have to do with Java, murphy? >Why are you talking to yourself, you fucking forging liar? oh dear Boy Paul swore! god will punish you priest fucker! >> you cannot win murphy! I have all these names to use >> every time I turn my modem off and on. Just like you told me! >Yeah, murphy 0! >aka phlatArse 0! > aka news in service 0! > aka Flash(r) 0! > aka glyph aka eye aka Stefan Robacki aka David Liphtmon aka wurm aka FNTS-2011 aka >Yannick Wurm aka who knows how many other nyms. hallucinate much? must have been those 'shrooms from down Binbrook way! phone a friend for quality 'shrooms! preferably one on the same planet as you! shek my names again. anything else is forgery! --- . ... ..- ... <tharrison77107@h0tmail.invalid> 00101010 <zerozeroonezeroonezeroonezero@h2g2.cazoola> 3k7e4intna <3k7e4intna@se0tfbhc.k3y0a.p0z> 3x+r4v4g4n <extr4v4g4n@fr0gs0up.x3l0n.c0m> Alice <quaxx1108@example.com> Arne Këndoj <akendoj103@foof.fcl3.org> Boojum <boojum42@gmai1.c0m> B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> Canuck <canuck107@canada.xyz> Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> Chad Carmichael <c_carm10782.x@y.z> dark-zark-fark <dzf190485@rutgers.edu> Deep Green <d_green11908@gmail.com> (forgery) Deeyana <d.awlberg@hotmail.invalid> De Lurker <delancey_s113@harvard.nospam.invalid> Derek Yancey <dy190295683@nospam.invalid> Extravagan <extravagan@frogsoup.xelon.com> Ferdinand the -14th <foo@bar.invalid> Fuschia, President-Elect of the Bright Purplish-Green Council <fp-eotbp-gc@ibm.com> George Arctos <g.arctos11@hormair.cor> Greg Kelly <gkelly101_4@gmai1.c0m> Greg Sandoval <g_sandoval@gcsma.edu.br> Gheerax IV <gheerax.4@gmail.invalid> Handkea fumosa <hfumosa@gmail.com> Hieronymus S. Freely <hsfreely@xavier.uwsc.edu> Hydrocon <hcon77107@geemail.corn> Henry Harrison <hharr.1082@quux.bar.foo> Henderson <h1@g1.f1> Heike Svensson <hsvensson.1093x1_q@hotmail.nospam.com.please> Harry Greer <h_greer_1099348@gmail.xxx> Janie Zanie <jjezebel916@gmai1.invalid> Jerry Gerrone <scuzwalla@gmail.com> John Kirkpatrick XVII <jkxvii@ask.me> Katie Gerrolds <k.gerrolds@nbfinlan.net> Kevin Hadron <kh_mu_meson@q.us> kensi <kensi_kensington@zoonoses.de> KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> Meerkats <mk_ultra.19018@gmail.com> (forgery) Mister Scott <m_scott.19477b@noggles.corn> Mrs. Danforth <danforth_a@hotmail.coo> Mike Faramis <m_faramis808@qmail.nospam.net> Mamac <mmc.19384_b@gmai1.com> Nancy 3 <n3@gmai1.c0m> Nancy 4 <n4@gmai1.c0m> (forgery) Nebulous <nebulous99@gmail.com> Nightcrawler <Dirtydeeds@dirtcheap.net> Nougat Surprise <nsurprise@noway.nohow.invalid> Orange Green <og_b1823@netmail.zoog.com.au> Paul Derbysh!re <pgderb@gmail.com> Purpleswandir <ps_1201294@gmail.com> RichB <rich_barnsley@nowhere.com> scuzwalla@gmail.com SFTV_troll <SFTV_troll@yah.right> Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> Spock <spock@starfleet.ufp> Series Expansion <serexp1@gmail.com> Seamus MacRae <smacrae319@live.ca.invalid> Snicker-snack! <ssnack119@g00glema1l.c0m> Tim <tharrison77107@h0tmail.invalid> Thursday's Leftovers <thursday.197@hotmail.com> thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> thoolen <tholen01@gmail.com> thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> Willy Wonka <w.wonk1028_x@gmail.xyz> got fries to go. I am so clever!
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| From | thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-12 21:03 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j4ma4t$vp$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #7888 |
On 12/09/2011 8:46 AM, murphy wrote: NaN> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer NaN> On 12/09/2011 7:20 AM, Cthun did not write: What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> > On 12/09/2011 6:42 AM, Cthun did write: Cthun didn't write that, murphy, yet you attributed it to him anyway. Classic dishonesty on your part, murphy. NaN> oh dear Boy Paul swore! Who is "Boy Paul", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. NaN> god will punish you priest fucker! Who is "priest fucker", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias. NaN> 0! What does that have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> 0! What does that have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> 0! What does that have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> 0! What does that have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> hallucinate much? What do your hallucinations have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> must have been those 'shrooms from down Binbrook way! What does your possession of illicit substances have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> phone a friend for quality 'shrooms! What does your bad advice to Cthun have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> preferably one on the same planet as you! What does your planet have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> shek my names again. What is "shek", murphy, and what does it have to do with Java? NaN> anything else is forgery! What do your forgeries have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> --- . ... ..- ... <tharrison77107@h0tmail.invalid> NaN> 00101010 <zerozeroonezeroonezeroonezero@h2g2.cazoola> NaN> 3k7e4intna <3k7e4intna@se0tfbhc.k3y0a.p0z> NaN> 3x+r4v4g4n <extr4v4g4n@fr0gs0up.x3l0n.c0m> NaN> Alice <quaxx1108@example.com> NaN> Arne Këndoj <akendoj103@foof.fcl3.org> NaN> Boojum <boojum42@gmai1.c0m> NaN> B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> NaN> Canuck <canuck107@canada.xyz> NaN> Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> NaN> Chad Carmichael <c_carm10782.x@y.z> NaN> dark-zark-fark <dzf190485@rutgers.edu> NaN> Deep Green <d_green11908@gmail.com> (forgery) NaN> Deeyana <d.awlberg@hotmail.invalid> NaN> De Lurker <delancey_s113@harvard.nospam.invalid> NaN> Derek Yancey <dy190295683@nospam.invalid> NaN> Extravagan <extravagan@frogsoup.xelon.com> NaN> Ferdinand the -14th <foo@bar.invalid> NaN> Fuschia, President-Elect of the Bright Purplish-Green Council NaN> <fp-eotbp-gc@ibm.com> NaN> George Arctos <g.arctos11@hormair.cor> NaN> Greg Kelly <gkelly101_4@gmai1.c0m> NaN> Greg Sandoval <g_sandoval@gcsma.edu.br> NaN> Gheerax IV <gheerax.4@gmail.invalid> NaN> Handkea fumosa <hfumosa@gmail.com> NaN> Hieronymus S. Freely <hsfreely@xavier.uwsc.edu> NaN> Hydrocon <hcon77107@geemail.corn> NaN> Henry Harrison <hharr.1082@quux.bar.foo> NaN> Henderson <h1@g1.f1> NaN> Heike Svensson <hsvensson.1093x1_q@hotmail.nospam.com.please> NaN> Harry Greer <h_greer_1099348@gmail.xxx> NaN> Janie Zanie <jjezebel916@gmai1.invalid> NaN> Jerry Gerrone <scuzwalla@gmail.com> NaN> John Kirkpatrick XVII <jkxvii@ask.me> NaN> Katie Gerrolds <k.gerrolds@nbfinlan.net> NaN> Kevin Hadron <kh_mu_meson@q.us> NaN> kensi <kensi_kensington@zoonoses.de> NaN> KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> NaN> Meerkats <mk_ultra.19018@gmail.com> (forgery) NaN> Mister Scott <m_scott.19477b@noggles.corn> NaN> Mrs. Danforth <danforth_a@hotmail.coo> NaN> Mike Faramis <m_faramis808@qmail.nospam.net> NaN> Mamac <mmc.19384_b@gmai1.com> NaN> Nancy 3 <n3@gmai1.c0m> NaN> Nancy 4 <n4@gmai1.c0m> (forgery) NaN> Nebulous <nebulous99@gmail.com> NaN> Nightcrawler <Dirtydeeds@dirtcheap.net> NaN> Nougat Surprise <nsurprise@noway.nohow.invalid> NaN> Orange Green <og_b1823@netmail.zoog.com.au> Paul Derbysh!re NaN> <pgderb@gmail.com> NaN> Purpleswandir <ps_1201294@gmail.com> NaN> RichB <rich_barnsley@nowhere.com> NaN> scuzwalla@gmail.com NaN> SFTV_troll <SFTV_troll@yah.right> NaN> Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> NaN> <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> NaN> NaN> Spock <spock@starfleet.ufp> NaN> Series Expansion <serexp1@gmail.com> NaN> Seamus MacRae <smacrae319@live.ca.invalid> NaN> Snicker-snack! <ssnack119@g00glema1l.c0m> NaN> Tim <tharrison77107@h0tmail.invalid> NaN> Thursday's Leftovers <thursday.197@hotmail.com> NaN> thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> NaN> thoolen <tholen01@gmail.com> NaN> thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> NaN> <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> NaN> Willy Wonka <w.wonk1028_x@gmail.xyz> What does your long list of names and email addresses of random internet users have to do with Java, murphy? Starting your own spamming business, murphy? Look closely, murphy. Many of the email addresses are obviously invalid, murphy. NaN> got fries to go. What does your dinner have to do with Java, murphy? NaN> I am so clever! What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have to do with Java, murphy? Indeed, it's quite possible that you're the stupidest man alive, murphy.
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| From | Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-12 20:18 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.DEB.2.00.1109122012040.1361@urchin.earth.li> |
| In reply to | #7814 |
On Sun, 11 Sep 2011, Lars Enderin wrote:
> 2011-09-11 18:42, Lew skrev:
>> Wanja Gayk wrote:
>>> class ApplicationWorkerUtil {
>>>
>>> static interface InternalExceptionHandler {
>>> void handle(final TimeoutException e);
>>>
>>> void handle(final Exception e);
>>> }
>>
>> Please, please, *please* do not use TAB characters to indent Usenet code posts!
>>
>> Your post is virtually unreadable to Google Groups because for some odd reason GG eliminates all such indentation, and to real newsreaders because they expand TABs so widely.
>>
>> Please, please, *please* only use spaces to indent code on Usenet (maximum indent 4 spaces per level).
>>
>> Please. I really would have liked to read your code, but such a large example with munged indentation just isn't worth it.
>
> I would copy the code and use Emacs to format it.
I'd just get over it.
Since we're talking about illegibility, someone posted this elsewhere the
other day:
http://ideone.com/hE5rn
You have to wonder about the mental processes that led to that. If it was
deliberate, it would be up there with Jackson Pollock, but i don't think
it was.
tom
--
There's spaceships, snappy dialogue, death cultists, likeable characters,
underwater combat, assassinations of public figures for their own good,
zombies, Batman references, robots, memes, talking cats, and stars used
as flamethrowers. -- Alx, on 'Implied Spaces'
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| From | Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-11 21:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.28d72852acd262f19896b5@202.177.16.121> |
| In reply to | #7809 |
In article <44bed345-7302-4fbc-ac46-
306c7429a5bc@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com>, lewbloch@gmail.com
says...
>
> Wanja Gayk wrote:
> > class ApplicationWorkerUtil {
> >
> > static interface InternalExceptionHandler {
> > void handle(final TimeoutException e);
> >
> > void handle(final Exception e);
> > }
>
> Please, please, *please* do not use TAB characters to indent Usenet code posts!
>
> Your post is virtually unreadable to Google Groups because for some odd reason GG eliminates all such indentation, and to real newsreaders because they expand TABs so widely.
>
> Please, please, *please* only use spaces to indent code on Usenet (maximum indent 4 spaces per level).
>
> Please. I really would have liked to read your code, but such a large example with munged indentation just isn't worth it.
Damn google groups.
Sorry for that.
Fortunately you can still copy and paste it into a your IDE and format
the source.
Kind regards,
Wanja
--
..Alesi's problem was that the back of the car was jumping up and down
dangerously - and I can assure you from having been teammate to
Jean Alesi and knowing what kind of cars that he can pull up with,
when Jean Alesi says that a car is dangerous - it is. [Jonathan Palmer]
--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---
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| From | Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-11 13:52 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6037c5b3-472d-46d9-a553-cc21e4f5f763@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #7817 |
Wanja Gayk wrote: > lewb...@gmail.com says... >> Please, please, *please* do not use TAB characters to indent Usenet code posts! >> >> Your post is virtually unreadable to Google Groups because for some odd reason GG eliminates all such indentation, and to real newsreaders because they expand TABs so widely. >> >> Please, please, *please* only use spaces to indent code on Usenet (maximum indent 4 spaces per level). >> >> Please. I really would have liked to read your code, but such a large example with munged indentation just isn't worth it. > > Damn google groups. The problem isn't limited to GG, it's only different for GG. > Sorry for that. > Fortunately you can still copy and paste it into a your IDE and format > the source. Unfortunately the folks who insist that I do the extra effort to read their posts because they're too inconsiderate to post politely only let me know that they really don't care about me, so in turn I really don't care about them. I'm fairly certain that you will not regret my lack of interaction with your failure to be courteous. -- Lew
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| From | Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-12 00:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnj6qjtn.6gl.avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #7794 |
Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> wrote: > In article <slrnj6mj4j.6gl.avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>, avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at says... >> I'd favor a different change: let final variables optionally >> have their type inferred: >> final myList = new ArrayList<String>(); >> Afterall, it is just a handle for some previously obtained value. > Well, is it? > I have a hard time believing that. Not sure, what is so hard to believe. Does "handle" mean something specific to you that isn't compatible with my line? > [...] > final Job jobAnnot=method.getAnnotation(Job.class); > assert jobAnnot != null; > final Schedule lifecycle=jobAnnot.value(); > [ ... further code doesn't use jobAnnot ...] That's about what I meant by "handle". jobAnnot is merely a handle for the result of method.getAnnotation(...). It is then used twice (assert and retrieving some value) and then forgotten. If it weren't for the assert, you might have written: final Schedule lifecycle= method.getAnnotation(Job.class).value(); (this particular assert seems rather useless anyway, as the NPE would definitely be thrown, anyway. assert makes more sense, if failure of the checked condition could otherwise go unnoticed until much later.) I admit that your coding style isn't really as "functional" as I had believed it to be from your complaint about so many "final"s... Most of my code would look quite similar, but I wouldn't bother adding finals, where the variable is only used in the following two or three lines of code. I would, however, still care to make those variables final whose scope contains a complete loop or more than say 10 lines of code.
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-10 21:32 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <4e6c0fce$0$310$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #7761 |
On 9/10/2011 12:45 AM, Wanja Gayk wrote: > That doesn't keep me from using final on references (not > methods/classes) wherever possible and also refactoring my code to use > that keyword when it does not compromise readability too much. The > reason is that it makes understanding code easier for me. > Once you're used to seeing "final" everwhere, you'll especially note > those places which are not marked finally; because they are the minority > they stand out, they catch your attention. These are the variables - in > the very sense of the word. The less variables you've got keep in mind, > the easier it is to understand what code does. It has served me very > well in the past 10 years and I do think it's worth the effort. You may > argue that it is no good for methods which are basically just 3 lines > long, but I'll do it there anyway: To avoid blurring the concept, > keeping the habit, keeping the "not final means attention!" sense sharp. > > So I'd like to use "final" to express my intention in code very > precisely, I'm not doing it for optimizing things. > It's a shame that in Java not all references are implicitly final and > only real variables get marked with "var" instead - that would serve the > same purpose with less effort and less visual clutter. > > Also with putting final in front of all method parameterts, long lists > of parameters begin to smell and cry for a refactoring earlier, which > isn't really a bad thing in my opinion (depends on code-formatting > though). There are plenty of languages with the behavior you want (default being val not var). I am a bit skeptical about trying to use a language in a significant different way from what it was intended. The code becomes more difficult to read for others and there are always the risk of having to be inconsistent due to constraints in the actual language. Sure you can learn your special style, but that does not help much when somebody else inherits your code. Better pick a language that work the way you want to code. Arne
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| From | Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-11 13:27 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.28d6b9611c81ff09896ae@202.177.16.121> |
| In reply to | #7775 |
In article <4e6c0fce$0$310$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, arne@vajhoej.dk says... > There are plenty of languages with the behavior you want (default > being val not var). > > I am a bit skeptical about trying to use a language in a significant > different way from what it was intended. Well in which was this was not intended? The final keyword is to mark those "variables" that never change, isn't it? I'm using it for exactly that. And I still have to meet the colleague who could not read my code just because of some "final" keywords in it. Kind regards, Wanja -- ..Alesi's problem was that the back of the car was jumping up and down dangerously - and I can assure you from having been teammate to Jean Alesi and knowing what kind of cars that he can pull up with, when Jean Alesi says that a car is dangerous - it is. [Jonathan Palmer] --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-11 11:05 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <4e6cce1f$0$314$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #7788 |
On 9/11/2011 7:27 AM, Wanja Gayk wrote: > In article<4e6c0fce$0$310$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, arne@vajhoej.dk > says... >> There are plenty of languages with the behavior you want (default >> being val not var). >> >> I am a bit skeptical about trying to use a language in a significant >> different way from what it was intended. > > Well in which was this was not intended? > The final keyword is to mark those "variables" that never change, isn't > it? I'm using it for exactly that. Obviously the semantics of final is as it is. But based on early examples coming out from SUN it seems very likely that the keyword was intended for special cases where something had to be final and not used everywhere except where something had to be not final. > And I still have to meet the colleague who could not read my code just > because of some "final" keywords in it. Sure they can read it. They probably can read anything that is valid Java syntax. That does not imply that the form is optimal. Otherwise such things as coding conventions would not exist. Arne
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| From | Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-11 13:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnj6pdj2.6gl.avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #7775 |
Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: > Sure you can learn your special style, but that does not > help much when somebody else inherits your code. > > Better pick a language that work the way you want to code. > Imagining myself in the role of a future maintainer of some code, I'd surely feel more comfortable with Java-code written in some strange (but consistent) style, than with code written in some non-mainstream language Xyz. But maybe that's just me...
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| From | Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-11 10:04 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j4if8u$mc5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #7793 |
On 9/11/2011 9:23 AM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj<arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> Sure you can learn your special style, but that does not
>> help much when somebody else inherits your code.
>>
>> Better pick a language that work the way you want to code.
>>
>
> Imagining myself in the role of a future maintainer of some code,
> I'd surely feel more comfortable with Java-code written in some
> strange (but consistent) style, than with code written in some
> non-mainstream language Xyz. But maybe that's just me...
I'd guess it's just you. Seriously.
Today's mainstream language is tomorrow's "legacy" language,
which means that tomorrow's maintainers will be more in tune with
whatever has become popular than with old, out-of-fashion Java.
Even those who were once Java whizzes will have seen their Java
skills rust with disuse. When they pick up a chunk of old Java
after years of working only in Snazzy, they will be on ground that
is far less familiar than once it was. (Are your own personal
COBOL/FORTRAN/ALGOL/... skills as sharp as they used to be?)
It will therefore be helpful (or at least less un-helpful) if
the code they see is not only self-consistent, but consistent with
all the other Java code they once knew. "All" is surely too high
a bar to clear, but "most" worth striving for. When writing code
that's intended to survive (code has extraordinary and surprising
longevity), you should have a really compelling reason to depart
from norms, not just a stylistic preference.
--
Eric Sosman
esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid
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| From | Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-11 12:45 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <jI4bq.13256$GG2.3813@newsfe01.iad> |
| In reply to | #7796 |
On 11-09-11 11:04 AM, Eric Sosman wrote: > On 9/11/2011 9:23 AM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote: >> Arne Vajhøj<arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: >>> Sure you can learn your special style, but that does not >>> help much when somebody else inherits your code. >>> >>> Better pick a language that work the way you want to code. >>> >> >> Imagining myself in the role of a future maintainer of some code, >> I'd surely feel more comfortable with Java-code written in some >> strange (but consistent) style, than with code written in some >> non-mainstream language Xyz. But maybe that's just me... > > I'd guess it's just you. Seriously. > > Today's mainstream language is tomorrow's "legacy" language, > which means that tomorrow's maintainers will be more in tune with > whatever has become popular than with old, out-of-fashion Java. > Even those who were once Java whizzes will have seen their Java > skills rust with disuse. When they pick up a chunk of old Java > after years of working only in Snazzy, they will be on ground that > is far less familiar than once it was. (Are your own personal > COBOL/FORTRAN/ALGOL/... skills as sharp as they used to be?) > > It will therefore be helpful (or at least less un-helpful) if > the code they see is not only self-consistent, but consistent with > all the other Java code they once knew. "All" is surely too high > a bar to clear, but "most" worth striving for. When writing code > that's intended to survive (code has extraordinary and surprising > longevity), you should have a really compelling reason to depart > from norms, not just a stylistic preference. > I agree, the problems are already more than big enough. I figure that my Java-based work only, can be described as roughly 2/3 maintenance, 1/3 new code, as of now and the past few years. The new coding is pretty much all JDK 1.6 (1.7 won't start being widely used in any projects I'm connected with until next year at the earliest), and on the Java EE side mostly Java EE 5 with a smattering of Java EE 6. I keep up with Java EE 6 and all the associated stuff like JSF 2 and JPA 2 and CDI and servlet 3.0, mostly on my own time, because not many of our clients are using those APIs yet; Java EE 5 is still the main thing for new development because the new dev is usually additions to other stuff in a Java EE 5 environment. For maintenance it's still mostly JDK 1.6 actually, with some JDK 1.4, but on the Java EE side about an even split of pure Java EE 5 and hybrid J2EE 1.4/Java EE 5 (Oracle Application Server/oc4j 10 being one of the main examples). My colleagues, acquaintances and myself don't see Java EE 6 to maintain...yet. Leastways in my neck of the woods I'd be surprised if Java EE 6 became predominant before about 2013/2014. Overall the main challenge lies in the APIs, not in the core language. Sure, there was that generics transition going to JDK 1.5, but in the big scheme of things that was minor. Mostly it's that there's not enough hours in the day to keep track of "current", "old", and "latest" APIs in both Java SE and Java EE. It's a challenge to keep switching between "obsolete", "predominant", "current" and "cutting edge" development hats on any given day or from week to week. Just as one example I have to remember JSF 1.1, 1.2 and 2.0 complete, and what I can and cannot do as I move from one to the other. So about the last thing a body needs is non-standard (hence inconsistent) core Java. AHS
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-11 16:53 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <4e6d1fc5$0$308$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #7805 |
On 9/11/2011 11:45 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote: > On 11-09-11 11:04 AM, Eric Sosman wrote: >> It will therefore be helpful (or at least less un-helpful) if >> the code they see is not only self-consistent, but consistent with >> all the other Java code they once knew. "All" is surely too high >> a bar to clear, but "most" worth striving for. When writing code >> that's intended to survive (code has extraordinary and surprising >> longevity), you should have a really compelling reason to depart >> from norms, not just a stylistic preference. >> > I agree, the problems are already more than big enough. I figure that > my Java-based work only, can be described as roughly 2/3 maintenance, > 1/3 new code, as of now and the past few years. And 1/3 new code is probably above industry average. > The new coding is pretty much all JDK 1.6 (1.7 won't start being widely > used in any projects I'm connected with until next year at the > earliest), and on the Java EE side mostly Java EE 5 with a smattering of > Java EE 6. I keep up with Java EE 6 and all the associated stuff like > JSF 2 and JPA 2 and CDI and servlet 3.0, mostly on my own time, because > not many of our clients are using those APIs yet; Java EE 5 is still the > main thing for new development because the new dev is usually additions > to other stuff in a Java EE 5 environment. > > For maintenance it's still mostly JDK 1.6 actually, with some JDK 1.4, > but on the Java EE side about an even split of pure Java EE 5 and hybrid > J2EE 1.4/Java EE 5 (Oracle Application Server/oc4j 10 being one of the > main examples). My colleagues, acquaintances and myself don't see Java > EE 6 to maintain...yet. Leastways in my neck of the woods I'd be > surprised if Java EE 6 became predominant before about 2013/2014. > > Overall the main challenge lies in the APIs, not in the core language. > Sure, there was that generics transition going to JDK 1.5, but in the > big scheme of things that was minor. Mostly it's that there's not enough > hours in the day to keep track of "current", "old", and "latest" APIs in > both Java SE and Java EE. It's a challenge to keep switching between > "obsolete", "predominant", "current" and "cutting edge" development hats > on any given day or from week to week. Just as one example I have to > remember JSF 1.1, 1.2 and 2.0 complete, and what I can and cannot do as > I move from one to the other. I still occasionally see Java 1.3.1 + J2EE 1.2/1.3 + Struts 1 in the field. Arne
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| From | Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-14 12:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnj717ia.6gl.avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #7820 |
Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: > On 9/11/2011 11:45 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote: >> I agree, the problems are already more than big enough. I figure that >> my Java-based work only, can be described as roughly 2/3 maintenance, >> 1/3 new code, as of now and the past few years. > And 1/3 new code is probably above industry average. The distinction between "new code" and "maintenance" doesn't quite cut it. A more interesting percentage might be: maintaining one's own code versus maintaining someone else's code. (And for "someone else's very ugly code" one could further distinguish for whether running it through a (standard or specific) beautifier is an option.)
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| From | Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-14 20:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j4ri24$p96$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #8017 |
On 9/14/2011 8:30 AM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj<arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 9/11/2011 11:45 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>> I agree, the problems are already more than big enough. I figure that
>>> my Java-based work only, can be described as roughly 2/3 maintenance,
>>> 1/3 new code, as of now and the past few years.
>> And 1/3 new code is probably above industry average.
>
> The distinction between "new code" and "maintenance" doesn't quite cut it.
>
> A more interesting percentage might be: maintaining one's own code versus
> maintaining someone else's code.
This is important. If you advocate code re-use, it follows that
you advocate spending more time maintaining and less originating. If
your preferences run the other way, you are not re-using enough code.
When I was young (shovelling coal into the furnaces of the early
steam-powered computers, and leering lasciviously at Lovelace), memory
was short and CPU cycles long: Both were scarce and hence expensive.
Programmer labor (sometimes called human labor, but that's debatable)
was cheap in comparison. The product of that labor was therefore also
cheap, easy to discard and re-write. "Re-doing it better" was laudable.
But memories have grown and CPU cycles have shrunk. I recall a
machine whose time was billed at $100/hour, during which time it could
perform maybe 0.3 billion instructions (if it never had to wait for
I/O and there wasn't too much floating-point in the mix). Today's
machines can get through 0.3 billion instructions in a second or two:
That's more than three decimal orders of magnitude faster. That same
machine deployed 1/8 MB of memory; nowadays even a bare-bones El Cheapo
laptop has 2 GB, four decimal orders of magnitude more. And the old
machine cost maybe $500,000 instead of $700 (which is about $125 in
1970 dollars), for another three-plus decimal orders of magnitude
improvement.
Meanwhile, the appetite for code -- the demand for programmer
output -- has risen, and although the supply of programmer labor has
increased and the tools of programmer productivity have improved, they
have not kept pace with demand. The balance is reversed: Programmer
time is scarce and expensive, CPU time and memory are plentiful and
cheap.
So if you want to produce software cost-effectively, it follows
that you *must* re-use existing code. And if you must re-use code,
it follows that you must maintain it -- and the really cost-effective
programmer, the one who will get to market first and with lower
overheads than the competition, will be the one who writes *no*
original code at all. It's too slow and expensive, and too last
millennium.
Ponder this, while thinking about the average Computer Science
curriculum. "Students, today you will implement an AVL tree." Bah!
--
Eric Sosman
esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid
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| From | Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-14 18:06 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <91a5b51c-f2d2-4d2e-8bfb-bc875d0bbb6d@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #8039 |
Eric Sosman wrote: > Andreas Leitgeb wrote: >> A more interesting percentage might be: maintaining one's own code versus >> maintaining someone else's code. > > This is important. If you advocate code re-use, it follows that > you advocate spending more time maintaining and less originating. If > your preferences run the other way, you are not re-using enough code. > > When I was young (shovelling coal into the furnaces of the early > steam-powered computers, and leering lasciviously at Lovelace), memory > was short and CPU cycles long: Both were scarce and hence expensive. > Programmer labor (sometimes called human labor, but that's debatable) > was cheap in comparison. The product of that labor was therefore also > cheap, easy to discard and re-write. "Re-doing it better" was laudable. > > But memories have grown and CPU cycles have shrunk. I recall a > machine whose time was billed at $100/hour, during which time it could > perform maybe 0.3 billion instructions (if it never had to wait for > I/O and there wasn't too much floating-point in the mix). Today's > machines can get through 0.3 billion instructions in a second or two: > That's more than three decimal orders of magnitude faster. That same > machine deployed 1/8 MB of memory; nowadays even a bare-bones El Cheapo > laptop has 2 GB, four decimal orders of magnitude more. And the old > machine cost maybe $500,000 instead of $700 (which is about $125 in > 1970 dollars), for another three-plus decimal orders of magnitude > improvement. > > Meanwhile, the appetite for code -- the demand for programmer > output -- has risen, and although the supply of programmer labor has > increased and the tools of programmer productivity have improved, they > have not kept pace with demand. The balance is reversed: Programmer > time is scarce and expensive, CPU time and memory are plentiful and > cheap. > > So if you want to produce software cost-effectively, it follows > that you *must* re-use existing code. And if you must re-use code, > it follows that you must maintain it -- and the really cost-effective > programmer, the one who will get to market first and with lower > overheads than the competition, will be the one who writes *no* > original code at all. It's too slow and expensive, and too last > millennium. > > Ponder this, while thinking about the average Computer Science > curriculum. "Students, today you will implement an AVL tree." Bah! "Thou shalt re-use code!" is a dogma that doesn't always apply. "Thou shalt conserve programming time and effort whilst reducing error!" does. Sometimes copy-and-modify is cheaper in both time and error-proneness than re-use. I would say quite often it is. -- Lew
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| From | Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-15 10:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnj73jhh.6gl.avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #8039 |
Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote: > So if you want to produce software cost-effectively, it follows > that you *must* re-use existing code. Yeah, every single character of my sources has surely been used somewhere else, already. PS: And once I no longer find a job in software development, I'll try to get the job shovelling coal into furnaces of machines that produce the hot air which is then going to be (re)used by others' talking.
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| From | blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-20 11:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <9drbm7FtpjU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #8039 |
In article <j4ri24$p96$1@dont-email.me>, Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote: > On 9/14/2011 8:30 AM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote: > > Arne Vajhøj<arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: > >> On 9/11/2011 11:45 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote: [ snip ] > This is important. If you advocate code re-use, it follows that > you advocate spending more time maintaining and less originating. If > your preferences run the other way, you are not re-using enough code. > > When I was young (shovelling coal into the furnaces of the early > steam-powered computers, and leering lasciviously at Lovelace), memory > was short and CPU cycles long: Both were scarce and hence expensive. > Programmer labor (sometimes called human labor, but that's debatable) > was cheap in comparison. The product of that labor was therefore also > cheap, easy to discard and re-write. "Re-doing it better" was laudable. > > But memories have grown and CPU cycles have shrunk. I recall a > machine whose time was billed at $100/hour, during which time it could > perform maybe 0.3 billion instructions (if it never had to wait for > I/O and there wasn't too much floating-point in the mix). Today's > machines can get through 0.3 billion instructions in a second or two: > That's more than three decimal orders of magnitude faster. That same > machine deployed 1/8 MB of memory; nowadays even a bare-bones El Cheapo > laptop has 2 GB, four decimal orders of magnitude more. And the old > machine cost maybe $500,000 instead of $700 (which is about $125 in > 1970 dollars), for another three-plus decimal orders of magnitude > improvement. > > Meanwhile, the appetite for code -- the demand for programmer > output -- has risen, and although the supply of programmer labor has > increased and the tools of programmer productivity have improved, they > have not kept pace with demand. The balance is reversed: Programmer > time is scarce and expensive, CPU time and memory are plentiful and > cheap. > > So if you want to produce software cost-effectively, it follows > that you *must* re-use existing code. And if you must re-use code, > it follows that you must maintain it -- and the really cost-effective > programmer, the one who will get to market first and with lower > overheads than the competition, will be the one who writes *no* > original code at all. It's too slow and expensive, and too last > millennium. > > Ponder this, while thinking about the average Computer Science > curriculum. "Students, today you will implement an AVL tree." Bah! > Well, yes, but .... You don't think there's pedagogical value in having students reinvent some fairly basic wheels? (I'm a bit uncertain myself -- it's hard not to think that every programmer should do some of these basic things *ONCE*, since otherwise there's some basic understanding that's lost, but then again the knowledge base keeps expanding, and expanding, and maybe these days it really is so much more important to know how to use the building blocks than to create them that nothing is gained by making sure you *know* how to create them.) -- B. L. Massingill ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.
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| From | Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-20 07:36 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j59tru$dro$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #8171 |
On 9/20/2011 7:28 AM, blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote:
> In article<j4ri24$p96$1@dont-email.me>,
> Eric Sosman<esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote:
>>[...]
>> Ponder this, while thinking about the average Computer Science
>> curriculum. "Students, today you will implement an AVL tree." Bah!
>>
>
> Well, yes, but .... You don't think there's pedagogical value
> in having students reinvent some fairly basic wheels? (I'm a bit
> uncertain myself -- it's hard not to think that every programmer
> should do some of these basic things *ONCE*, since otherwise there's
> some basic understanding that's lost, but then again the knowledge
> base keeps expanding, and expanding, and maybe these days it really
> is so much more important to know how to use the building blocks
> than to create them that nothing is gained by making sure you *know*
> how to create them.)
"Students, today you will build computers. At each lab bench
you'll find a pile of sand and a furnace ..."
--
Eric Sosman
esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid
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