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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #7405 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2011-08-26 20:56 -0400 |
| Last post | 2011-08-31 00:31 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 182 — 33 participants |
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Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-08-26 20:56 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-08-27 09:58 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Rajiv Gupta <rajiv@invalid.com> - 2011-08-27 18:02 +1000
Re: Style Police (a rant) v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2011-08-27 08:40 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 13:27 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 13:33 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-08-27 11:08 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 08:34 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 08:37 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 17:59 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 18:06 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 18:08 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 09:50 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 19:15 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 13:09 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-27 23:18 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 16:10 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-28 01:59 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 18:59 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-28 15:32 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-28 13:09 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-29 04:02 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-28 19:20 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-29 09:44 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-29 08:30 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-08-29 16:37 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-29 12:10 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-08-29 18:21 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2011-08-29 04:06 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-10 06:45 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-10 11:40 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-10 14:06 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 14:07 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 10:55 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 23:34 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 10:58 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-09-11 10:12 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-14 12:22 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Bent C Dalager <bcd@pvv.ntnu.no> - 2011-09-14 15:04 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Paul Cager <paul.cager@googlemail.com> - 2011-09-14 09:36 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 09:47 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 23:32 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-17 00:57 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-17 19:56 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-11 21:20 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-11 17:11 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-12 01:22 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 21:13 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 16:54 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-11 23:42 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 21:54 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-13 07:18 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-13 10:07 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 08:15 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-13 12:00 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-13 10:10 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 09:55 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-15 10:37 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_9112011@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-15 22:58 -0400
Murphy = Troll [DO NOT FEED] thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-16 00:23 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-16 03:26 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) un-Bent <dob@dib.dib.null> - 2011-09-16 13:02 +0000
Murphy = Troll [DO NOT FEED] thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-16 22:40 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-17 19:36 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "kaffel'latte" <jiggingjava@qmail.net> - 2011-09-19 08:58 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-19 11:56 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "kaffel'latte" <jiggingjava@qmail.net> - 2011-09-19 17:05 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-19 19:13 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) k00k Derbyshire spins freely "kaffel'latte" <jiggingjava@qmail.net> - 2011-09-19 20:45 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) k00k Derbyshire spins freely thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-21 18:37 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-26 15:13 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-26 19:34 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 06:49 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 09:21 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-10-01 14:17 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-01 20:53 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-10-01 21:12 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-05 06:17 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 04:56 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 05:12 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 04:59 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 05:13 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 23:17 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 21:12 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-12 07:36 -0300
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 04:58 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 05:12 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-11 15:33 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 09:42 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2011-09-11 20:35 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 16:55 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 20:36 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2011-09-12 10:05 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 15:35 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2011-09-13 10:35 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 09:48 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 12:18 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 17:30 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 21:59 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Joe Attardi <jattardi@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 10:54 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-24 01:54 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-09-24 02:58 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-24 11:35 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Joe Attardi <jattardi@gmail.com> - 2011-09-26 13:50 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> - 2011-09-26 21:14 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-26 17:50 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-11-04 15:56 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-11-07 12:04 -0500
Re: Style Police (a rant) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-11-10 15:22 -0800
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-26 17:47 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-11-04 15:48 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> - 2011-11-05 07:58 -0500
Re: Style Police (a rant) "tholen@antispam.ham" <tholen@ifa.hawaii.edu> - 2011-11-10 15:17 -0800
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-26 15:17 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> - 2011-09-27 00:50 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) tisue@cs.nwu.edu (Seth Tisue) - 2011-09-27 08:55 -0600
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-27 14:14 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-27 14:11 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 07:31 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-26 22:24 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Jane Doe <jdoe@love.in.d.jungle.invalid> - 2011-09-27 09:30 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) tisue@cs.nwu.edu (Seth Tisue) - 2011-09-27 08:57 -0600
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-27 14:38 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-27 14:36 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-09-30 15:58 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 07:32 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-30 21:26 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-01 07:34 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-01 15:51 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-05 06:18 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-10-01 16:26 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-10-01 21:25 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-05 06:23 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-10-05 10:01 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-10-07 08:29 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-10-07 17:34 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 21:58 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 04:52 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 05:14 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 06:42 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 07:20 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> - 2011-09-12 08:46 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> - 2011-09-12 21:03 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-09-12 20:18 +0100
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-11 21:20 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-11 13:52 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-12 00:17 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-10 21:32 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-11 13:27 +0200
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 11:05 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 13:23 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-09-11 10:04 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-11 12:45 -0300
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 16:53 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-14 12:30 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-09-14 20:47 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-14 18:06 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-15 10:06 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-09-20 11:28 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-09-20 07:36 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-20 13:04 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-20 20:34 -0300
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-14 22:33 -0300
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-15 13:46 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-14 21:40 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-11 10:59 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-09-11 21:25 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-08-27 14:00 +0100
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-27 08:42 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-08-27 11:58 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-28 08:21 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-08-28 18:07 -0300
Re: Style Police (a rant) Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-08-29 04:20 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2011-08-29 09:11 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-08-29 20:50 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-08-30 11:27 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 09:36 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-08-30 17:51 +0000
Re: Style Police (a rant) Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2011-08-30 08:51 -0400
Re: Style Police (a rant) Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-08-30 09:04 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-08-30 09:43 -0700
Re: Style Police (a rant) Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2011-08-31 00:31 +0200
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| From | Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-16 03:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <31be6d6b-3026-4767-a188-5f233a44cbf2@d18g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #8057 |
On Sep 15, 10:37 am, Cthun <cthun_...@qmail.net.au> wrote: > On 13/09/2011 12:55 PM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: > > > If you need to ask, then you simply do not understand. > > If you need to ask, then you simply do not understand. > > Perhaps not. Some people dislike all the parentheses, but I confess I > don't really know why. How odd. > http://www.clojure.org/ > http://try-clojure.org/ Eww! No thanks. > >>> And of course the big thing the Lispers always keep hyping are the > >>> macros. > > >> With good reason. > > > Poppycock. > > [calls me a liar] No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at all true. > Java finally is adding something called "try-with-resources". If > Java had had macros we wouldn't have needed to wait. He could have > written a try-with-resources macro built around regular try. Or even > if he didn't have the chops for macro writing himself, as soon as > there was much demand for try-with-resources someone would have made > it available as a library in short order. But instead, the Java > community had to wait until Sun/Oracle got their act together and > added it. And it works, instead of being buggy as hell and prone to name capture issues, and Java codebases aren't chock full of idiosyncratic macro invocations but are instead pretty standardized, so any skilled Java professional can easily read any of that code and maintain it. > Macros mean not having to wait for the implementation vendors for new > language features. It means maybe getting esoteric ones the vendors > don't see enough demand for to write themselves. It also means being > able to easily write mini-compilers to convert a problem-domain > language, such as an expressive math notation, into the underlying > language. So you can do something like (math x^2 + 32) and get back a > Polynomial object or whatever that can be called like a function with > various values of x and also subjected to analytic methods. And yes, > that's infix notation inside the hypothetical math macro. Sounds like Lisp easily turns into a Tower of Babel where no-one can understand anyone else's code. > >>> Anyone who's had to maintain a large C codebase inherited from > >>> someone else learns to dread macros. > > >> Learns to dread C macros, perhaps. > > > Macros are macros are macros. > > Not all macros are created equal. Oh? > C's are much less clean because they do nothing to help avoid symbol > capture and they operate on text rather than the abstract syntax tree. Something familiar in how you write. You remind me of someone I had a very long argument with here, long ago. Appropriately, his name was "Bent". > > If I call a variable in a macro "x" and it contains a code fragment > > supplied at the invocation site, there could be an "x" at the > > invocation site as well, in scope around the invocation, that that > > code fragment tries to reference. Replace "x" with any other name and > > the same thing remains true. I suppose you could add some klunky > > system that allows module-namespacing locals, and then use that in > > macros to make collisions less likely, but that's one hell of a > > kludge. > > Sort of, minus the klunky kludge part. Gensyms and qualified symbols can > be used for this type of thing. "Klunky kludge" is obviously in the eye of the beholder, if you think those don't qualify. > > If all language features were *equal* in their proneness to be > > misused, why would we find macros to be a particularly frequent > > culprit in C codebases, and macros and operator overloading in C++ > > codebases, as compared to, say, switch statements or for loops or > > ordinary function calls? > > Because C/C++ preprocessor macros suck? See above. See above indeed. > > Most operator precedence rules you'll need will have been ingrained in > > grade school math class, and you can always *elect* to parenthesize > > when you want to be sure of a particular order of execution and don't > > remember the precedence rule (or it goes the wrong way for your needs > > in that case). > > Why leave any doubt? There *is* no doubt, in most cases, for anyone who's graduated from kindergarten. > Besides, fully-parenthesized helps make the source code be close to a > directly readable version of the abstract syntax tree. "Readable" is obviously also in the eye of the beholder. :P > And that makes it easier for the macro processor to work, and for > the coder to reason about their macros. And now we're back to this. To satisfy your macro yen, you make the whole rest of the language suck. > > And what is wrong with "syntaxy" language, exactly? > > It doesn't play nice with macros. Like I care. > > Without syntax, you don't even have a language, just a formless soup. > > [calls me a liar] No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at all true. > >>> And don't get me started on Common Lisp's boondoggle known as the > >>> LOOP macro ... > > >> The Common Lisp LOOP macro does, in fact, suck. It's ... unLispy. > > > Merely being unLispy would be a good thing. > > [calls me a liar] No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at all true. > > The problem is that it's COBOLy, BASICy, and borderline INTERCALy. > > This much is true. A single point we agree on! Wow. :P
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| From | un-Bent <dob@dib.dib.null> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-16 13:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <j4vhcj$76f$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8073 |
derbyshire ran the <Retahiv Oopsiscame> sock on stage with: >Something familiar in how you write. You remind me of someone I had a >very long argument with here, long ago. Appropriately, his name was >"Bent". > hardly an "argument", more like snot trying to find a home on polished diamond - could not "get a grip". yet you blow in again, "projectile non gratis". you really should bring back Seamus MacRae more often, square brackets are great for playing virtual croquet with. >[calls me a liar] > indeed. figured why that is? Think why it is Google posters are universally loathed, dipshit. "debate" that Usenet fact. here is what BD had to say about you right before you earned your k00k award as "Clueless Newbie of the Month", to then get a citation with the Tin Foil Sombrero for stupidity beyond the pale. as BD says... "Some might think this is fatalism. I think it's just Usenet" Usenet built to sort out fucktards fucking with newsgroups, as you do. <Q> _______________I do not know of his skills in these technologies _______________specifically, but it _______________appears to me that in those disciplines that Twisted _______________(et.al) actually _______________cares to stay updated in, his understanding seems quite _______________good. I base _______________this on the observation that any new alias of his usually _______________participates _______________fruitfully in cljp discussions up until a point where he _______________gets mired _______________down in an entrenched position that other regulars disagree _______________with. This _______________will tend to expose him as Twisted and another alias soon _______________appears. [..] _______________I suspect the final conclusion to this is that Twisted is _______________eventually _______________going to become a recognized feature of whatever groups he _______________frequents. He will remain unidentified for so long as he _______________remains _______________useful and interesting and once some thread devolves into a _______________typical _______________Twisted-style flame fest the regulars will recognize him _______________for who he is _______________and tune out that particular alias. The very long flame _______________fests only _______________come about when he is introduced into a group where his _______________behaviour has _______________not already been established, as with the recent lisp _______________debacle. _______________ _______________Some might think this is fatalism. I think it's just Usenet >/Q> .. and of course your list: .--- . ... ..- ... <tharrison77107@h0tmail.invalid> 00101010 <zerozeroonezeroonezeroonezero@h2g2.cazoola> 3k7e4intna <3k7e4intna@se0tfbhc.k3y0a.p0z> 3x7r4vagan <3x7r4vagan@fr0gsoup.x3l0n.c0m> 3x+r4v4g4n <extr4v4g4n@fr0gs0up.x3l0n.c0m> Alice <quaxx1108@example.com> Arne Këndoj <akendoj103@foof.fcl3.org> Boojum <boojum42@gmai1.c0m> B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> A Canuck <canuck36@tweezit.yahoo.ca> Canuck <canuck107@canada.xyz> ClassCastException <zjkg3d9gj56@gmail.invalid> Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> Chad Carmichael <c_carm10782.x@y.z> dA.b0mB <dabomb@gmai1.c0m> dark-zark-fark <dzf190485@rutgers.edu> Deep Green <d_green11908@gmail.com> (forgery) Deeyana <d.awlberg@hotmail.invalid> De Lurker <delancey_s113@harvard.nospam.invalid> Derek Yancey <dy190295683@nospam.invalid> Extravagan <extravagan@frogsoup.xelon.com> Ferdinand the -14th <foo@bar.invalid> Fuschia, President-Elect of the Bright Purplish-Green Council <fp-eotbp-gc@ibm.com> George Arctos <g.arctos11@hormair.cor> Greg Kelly <gkelly101_4@gmai1.c0m> Greg Sandoval <g_sandoval@gcsma.edu.br> Gheerax IV <gheerax.4@gmail.invalid> Handkea fumosa <hfumosa@gmail.com> Hieronymus S. Freely <hsfreely@xavier.uwsc.edu> Hydrocon <hcon77107@geemail.corn> Henry Harrison <hharr.1082@quux.bar.foo> Henderson <h1@g1.f1> Heike Svensson <hsvensson.1093x1_q@hotmail.nospam.com.please> Harry Greer <h_greer_1099348@gmail.xxx> Janie Zanie <jjezebel916@gmai1.invalid> Jerry Gerrone <scuzwalla@gmail.com> John Kirkpatrick XVII <jkxvii@ask.me> Katie Gerrolds <k.gerrolds@nbfinlan.net> Kevin Hadron <kh_mu_meson@q.us> kensi <kensi_kensington@zoonoses.de> KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> Meerkats <mk_ultra.19018@gmail.com> (forgery) Mister Scott <m_scott.19477b@noggles.corn> Mrs. Danforth <danforth_a@hotmail.coo> Mike Faramis <m_faramis808@qmail.nospam.net> Mamac <mmc.19384_b@gmai1.com> Nancy 3 <n3@gmai1.c0m> Nancy 4 <n4@gmai1.c0m> (forgery) Nebulous <nebulous99@gmail.com> Nightcrawler <Dirtydeeds@dirtcheap.net> Nougat Surprise <nsurprise@noway.nohow.invalid> Orange Green <og_b1823@netmail.zoog.com.au> Paul Derbysh!re <pgderb@gmail.com> Purpleswandir <ps_1201294@gmail.com> Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> RichB <rich_barnsley@nowhere.com> scuzwalla@gmail.com SFTV_troll <SFTV_troll@yah.right> Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> Spock <spock@starfleet.ufp> Series Expansion <serexp1@gmail.com> Seamus MacRae <smacrae319@live.ca.invalid> Snicker-snack! <ssnack119@g00glema1l.c0m> Tim <tharrison77107@h0tmail.invalid> Thursday's Leftovers <thursday.197@hotmail.com> thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> thoolen <tholen01@gmail.com> thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> Willy Wonka <w.wonk1028_x@gmail.xyz>
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| From | thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-16 22:40 -0400 |
| Subject | Murphy = Troll [DO NOT FEED] |
| Message-ID | <j511ae$97t$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8075 |
On 16/09/2011 9:02 AM, "un-Bent", an obvious murphy sock, wrote:
NaN> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer
NaN> derbyshire ran the <Retahiv Oopsiscame> sock on stage with:
Who is "derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias.
NaN> hardly an "argument", more like snot trying to find a
NaN> home on polished diamond - could not "get a grip".
What does your opinion have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> yet you blow in again, "projectile non gratis".
What does your non sequitur have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> you really should bring back Seamus MacRae more
NaN> often,
Who is "Seamus MacRae", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias.
NaN> square brackets are great for playing virtual
NaN> croquet with.
What does your non sequitur have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> indeed.
What does your unsubstantiated allegation regarding Oopsiscame have to
do with Java, murphy?
NaN> figured why that is?
What does your question of Oopsiscame have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> Think why it is Google posters are universally loathed, dipshit.
Who is "dipshit", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that
alias.
NaN> "debate" that Usenet fact.
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy?
NaN> here is what BD had to say about you right before you earned your
NaN> k00k award as "Clueless Newbie of the Month", to then get a citation
NaN> with the Tin Foil Sombrero for stupidity beyond the pale.
What does your unsubstantiated allegation regarding Oopsiscame have to
do with Java, murphy? And who is "BD", murphy? There is nobody in this
newsgroup using that alias.
NaN> as BD says... "Some might think this is fatalism. I think it's just
NaN> Usenet"
Who is "BD", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias.
NaN> Usenet built to sort out fucktards fucking with newsgroups,
What does your foul language have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> as you do.
Another unsubstantiated allegation regarding Oopsiscame.
NaN> <Q>
What is "<Q>", murphy, and what does it have to do with Java?
NaN> _______________I do not know of his skills in these technologies
NaN> _______________specifically, but it
NaN> _______________appears to me that in those disciplines that Twisted
NaN> _______________(et.al) actually
NaN> _______________cares to stay updated in, his understanding seems quite
NaN> _______________good. I base
NaN> _______________this on the observation that any new alias of his
usually
NaN> _______________participates
NaN> _______________fruitfully in cljp discussions up until a point where he
NaN> _______________gets mired
NaN> _______________down in an entrenched position that other regulars
disagree
NaN> _______________with. This
NaN> _______________will tend to expose him as Twisted and another alias
soon
NaN> _______________appears.
What does any of that have to do with Java, murphy? And who is
"Twisted", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias.
NaN> [..]
What does your robot-head emoticon have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> _______________I suspect the final conclusion to this is that
Twisted is
NaN> _______________eventually
NaN> _______________going to become a recognized feature of whatever
groups he
NaN> _______________frequents. He will remain unidentified for so long as he
NaN> _______________remains
NaN> _______________useful and interesting and once some thread devolves
into a
NaN> _______________typical
NaN> _______________Twisted-style flame fest the regulars will recognize him
NaN> _______________for who he is
NaN> _______________and tune out that particular alias. The very long flame
NaN> _______________fests only
NaN> _______________come about when he is introduced into a group where his
NaN> _______________behaviour has
NaN> _______________not already been established, as with the recent lisp
NaN> _______________debacle.
NaN> _______________
NaN> _______________Some might think this is fatalism. I think it's just
Usenet
What does any of that have to do with Java, murphy? And who is
"Twisted", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that alias.
NaN> > /Q>
Oopsiscame didn't write that, murphy, yet you attributed it to him
anyway. Classic dishonesty on your part, murphy.
NaN> .. and of course your list:
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy? The list in question is yours, murphy, not Oopsiscame's; it is a
manifestation of your paranoia.
What, no more laughable attempts at Google Street View stalking of your
probably-nonexistent nemesis, murphy?
"I had 'volunteered (years back) to support those who do endeavor
to provide free Free Usenet access, support those who offered
subscription based Free Usenet access, nothing more than
cooperation expected in return for what has been many
thousands of hours of work. I note most of those I joined with
are either deceased, severely disabled, or plain ole' MIA..
now it is my Time. ...
You just read my last. ...
For those who think they see me in future times I can only wish
you severe Tinnitus in your dreams. For those who know me
well (eMail, whatever) and see me, know I will be smiling also.
It is to you I say "adieu mein frenz and adios .. grazie' [hugs]
for all the Good Times! May you and yours always bear well
with all Life brings you".
/0ut"
--murphy
And people wonder why I call them Famous Last Words.
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| From | Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-17 19:36 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j53auh$cdt$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8073 |
On 16/09/2011 6:26 AM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: > On Sep 15, 10:37 am, Cthun<cthun_...@qmail.net.au> wrote: >> http://www.clojure.org/ >> http://try-clojure.org/ > > Eww! No thanks. *shrug* Suit yourself. But don't knock it until you've tried it. >> [calls me a liar] > > No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me > are at all true. What?? Where did I call you a liar? >> Java finally is adding something called "try-with-resources". If >> Java had had macros we wouldn't have needed to wait. He could have >> written a try-with-resources macro built around regular try. Or even >> if he didn't have the chops for macro writing himself, as soon as >> there was much demand for try-with-resources someone would have made >> it available as a library in short order. But instead, the Java >> community had to wait until Sun/Oracle got their act together and >> added it. > > And it works, instead of being buggy as hell and prone to name capture > issues, and Java codebases aren't chock full of idiosyncratic macro > invocations but are instead pretty standardized, so any skilled Java > professional can easily read any of that code and maintain it. Lisps tend to accrue fairly standard libraries of third-party macros everyone learns to recognize. And of course you usually have access to the macro's source. >> Macros mean not having to wait for the implementation vendors for new >> language features. It means maybe getting esoteric ones the vendors >> don't see enough demand for to write themselves. It also means being >> able to easily write mini-compilers to convert a problem-domain >> language, such as an expressive math notation, into the underlying >> language. So you can do something like (math x^2 + 32) and get back a >> Polynomial object or whatever that can be called like a function with >> various values of x and also subjected to analytic methods. And yes, >> that's infix notation inside the hypothetical math macro. > > Sounds like Lisp easily turns into a Tower of Babel where no-one can > understand anyone else's code. The ability to define functions or classes already suffices to allow programmers to turn a language into a Tower of Babel, yet nearly all languages allow user-defined functions and/or classes in some form or another, and ones that allow neither are considered archaic and crippled. >> C's are much less clean because they do nothing to help avoid symbol >> capture and they operate on text rather than the abstract syntax tree. > > Something familiar in how you write. You remind me of someone I had a > very long argument with here, long ago. Appropriately, his name was > "Bent". Ad hominem noted. Get back to me when you have a real argument to make. >> Sort of, minus the klunky kludge part. Gensyms and qualified symbols can >> be used for this type of thing. > > "Klunky kludge" is obviously in the eye of the beholder, if you think > those don't qualify. Perhaps. >>> Most operator precedence rules you'll need will have been ingrained in >>> grade school math class, and you can always *elect* to parenthesize >>> when you want to be sure of a particular order of execution and don't >>> remember the precedence rule (or it goes the wrong way for your needs >>> in that case). >> >> Why leave any doubt? > > There *is* no doubt, in most cases, for anyone who's graduated from > kindergarten. Quick quiz: without referring to the JLS, other Sun/Oracle docs, Wikipedia, or Google, which has precedence: the cast operator or the dot (method invocation) operator? >> Besides, fully-parenthesized helps make the source code be close to a >> directly readable version of the abstract syntax tree. > > "Readable" is obviously also in the eye of the beholder. :P Perhaps. Verbose, on the other hand, isn't, and Java is quite verbose at any given level of expressiveness compared to, especially, Lisps. >> And that makes it easier for the macro processor to work, and for >> the coder to reason about their macros. > > And now we're back to this. To satisfy your macro yen, you make the > whole rest of the language suck. I don't think so. >>> Without syntax, you don't even have a language, just a formless soup. >> >> [calls me a liar] > > No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me > are at all true. Whaaaaa????? >>> Merely being unLispy would be a good thing. >> >> [calls me a liar] > > No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me > are at all true. WTF?!?!?! >>> The problem is that it's COBOLy, BASICy, and borderline INTERCALy. >> >> This much is true. > > A single point we agree on! Wow. :P No need for sarcasm. It means you're beginning to learn.
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| From | "kaffel'latte" <jiggingjava@qmail.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-19 08:58 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j57aqp$ne$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8112 |
Derbyshire having a wee chat to hisselv did post in <j53auh$cdt$1@speranza.aioe.org> all the while asking of -- http://www.kollinger.com/_toons/lonely92.jpg >> A single point we agree on! Wow. :P > >No need for sarcasm. It means you're beginning to learn. training gerbils? you left off your list; --- . ... ..- ... <tharrison77107@h0tmail.invalid> 00101010 <zerozeroonezeroonezeroonezero@h2g2.cazoola> 3k7e4intna <3k7e4intna@se0tfbhc.k3y0a.p0z> 3x7r4vagan <3x7r4vagan@fr0gsoup.x3l0n.c0m> 3x+r4v4g4n <extr4v4g4n@fr0gs0up.x3l0n.c0m> Alice <quaxx1108@example.com> Arne Këndoj <akendoj103@foof.fcl3.org> Boojum <boojum42@gmai1.c0m> B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> A Canuck <canuck36@tweezit.yahoo.ca> Canuck <canuck107@canada.xyz> ClassCastException <zjkg3d9gj56@gmail.invalid> Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> Chad Carmichael <c_carm10782.x@y.z> dA.b0mB <dabomb@gmai1.c0m> dark-zark-fark <dzf190485@rutgers.edu> Deep Green <d_green11908@gmail.com> (forgery) Deeyana <d.awlberg@hotmail.invalid> De Lurker <delancey_s113@harvard.nospam.invalid> Derek Yancey <dy190295683@nospam.invalid> Extravagan <extravagan@frogsoup.xelon.com> Ferdinand the -14th <foo@bar.invalid> Fuschia, President-Elect of the Bright Purplish-Green Council <fp-eotbp-gc@ibm.com> George Arctos <g.arctos11@hormair.cor> Greg Kelly <gkelly101_4@gmai1.c0m> Greg Sandoval <g_sandoval@gcsma.edu.br> Gheerax IV <gheerax.4@gmail.invalid> Handkea fumosa <hfumosa@gmail.com> Hieronymus S. Freely <hsfreely@xavier.uwsc.edu> Hydrocon <hcon77107@geemail.corn> Henry Harrison <hharr.1082@quux.bar.foo> Henderson <h1@g1.f1> Heike Svensson <hsvensson.1093x1_q@hotmail.nospam.com.please> Harry Greer <h_greer_1099348@gmail.xxx> Janie Zanie <jjezebel916@gmai1.invalid> Jerry Gerrone <scuzwalla@gmail.com> John Kirkpatrick XVII <jkxvii@ask.me> Katie Gerrolds <k.gerrolds@nbfinlan.net> Kevin Hadron <kh_mu_meson@q.us> kensi <kensi_kensington@zoonoses.de> KitKat <kitkat_11697@gmail.example.com> Meerkats <mk_ultra.19018@gmail.com> (forgery) Mister Scott <m_scott.19477b@noggles.corn> Mrs. Danforth <danforth_a@hotmail.coo> Mike Faramis <m_faramis808@qmail.nospam.net> Mamac <mmc.19384_b@gmai1.com> Nancy 3 <n3@gmai1.c0m> Nancy 4 <n4@gmai1.c0m> (forgery) Nebulous <nebulous99@gmail.com> Nightcrawler <Dirtydeeds@dirtcheap.net> Nougat Surprise <nsurprise@noway.nohow.invalid> Orange Green <og_b1823@netmail.zoog.com.au> Purpleswandir <ps_1201294@gmail.com> Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> RichB <rich_barnsley@nowhere.com> scuzwalla@gmail.com SFTV_troll <SFTV_troll@yah.right> Sulfide Eater <zaxx1108@example.com> <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> Spock <spock@starfleet.ufp> Series Expansion <serexp1@gmail.com> Seamus MacRae <smacrae319@live.ca.invalid> Snicker-snack! <ssnack119@g00glema1l.c0m> Tim <tharrison77107@h0tmail.invalid> Thursday's Leftovers <thursday.197@hotmail.com> thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> thoolen <tholen01@gmail.com> thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> Willy Wonka <w.wonk1028_x@gmail.xyz> Zapotec <z_gib@wav.com> and that work on your trailer park. http://i51.tinypic.com/28us11y.jpg
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| From | thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-19 11:56 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j57onu$7vq$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8151 |
On 19/09/2011 8:58 AM, "kaffel'latte", an obvious murphy sock, wrote:
NaN> Derbyshire having a wee chat to hisselv did post in
Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias. And what is "hisselv", murphy, and what does it have to do
with Java?
What does your URL have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> training gerbils?
What does your training have to do with Java, murphy? Have you mastered
making the little wheel in your terrarium spin yet, murphy?
NaN> you left off your list;
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy? That list is yours, murphy, not Cthun's; it is a monument to
your vast and unfathomable paranoia.
NaN> and that work on your trailer park.
What does your unsubstantiated claim regarding Cthun have to do with
Java, murphy?
What does your URL have to do with Java, murphy?
"I had 'volunteered (years back) to support those who do endeavor
to provide free Free Usenet access, support those who offered
subscription based Free Usenet access, nothing more than
cooperation expected in return for what has been many
thousands of hours of work. I note most of those I joined with
are either deceased, severely disabled, or plain ole' MIA..
now it is my Time. ...
You just read my last. ...
For those who think they see me in future times I can only wish
you severe Tinnitus in your dreams. For those who know me
well (eMail, whatever) and see me, know I will be smiling also.
It is to you I say "adieu mein frenz and adios .. grazie' [hugs]
for all the Good Times! May you and yours always bear well
with all Life brings you".
/0ut"
--murphy
And people wonder why I call them Famous Last Words.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "kaffel'latte" <jiggingjava@qmail.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-19 17:05 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j58b4b$rep$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8154 |
Derbyshire hiding as thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium>all the while asking of -- http://www.kollinger.com/_toons/lonely92.jpg did ask a lot of questions with: >On 19/09/2011 8:58 AM, "kaffel'latte", an obvious murphy sock, wrote: >NaN> Derbyshire having a wee chat to hisselv did post in > >Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using >that alias. Who is " murphy", Derbyshire? >And what is "hisselv", murphy, and what does it have to do >with Java? > Pretending to know the code runs for your script kiddee runs is very relevant to the newsgroup diversions you post, Derbyshire. "hisselv" is Mongolian engrish for the first person. Your education that devoid of worldly knowledge? >What does your URL have to do with Java, murphy? > ahhh. *that* you will get to find out in due course. Why is there a RCMP unit watching your trailer? >NaN> training gerbils? > >What does your training have to do with Java, murphy? Have you mastered >making the little wheel in your terrarium spin yet, murphy? > Project much? Oh Yes, continually. Usually in thousand line rants. >NaN> you left off your list; > >What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java, >murphy? That list is yours, murphy, not Cthun's; it is a monument to >your vast and unfathomable paranoia. > Do point at any proof there is a missing name of "murphy". FYI. It is the naive who approach Usenet with a concept of anonymity as protection around the intent to disrupt. Paranoia for them comes later, too late in many instances. You Master Derbyshire are a prime example of that stupidity. >NaN> and that work on your trailer park. > >What does your unsubstantiated claim regarding Cthun have to do with >Java, murphy? > Almost set in stone is the attribute of low self esteem owned by the common <i>rodentis trollis maximus</i>. Well earned is the lame "trailer park trash" for which that broken Winnebago is pretty much symbolic of all you post in your insane desire to be wanted by the folks you believe have code skills which challenge your empty taunts. What is not known yet is how the Pembroke community will handle knowing your Usenet activity. The print press grinds slowly but inevitably. do put some thought to how the superintendent at IBGC will view your activity knowing you are in fact quite insane. >What does your URL have to do with Java, murphy? > > "I had 'volunteered (years back) to support those who do endeavor > to provide free Free Usenet access, support those who offered > subscription based Free Usenet access, nothing more than > cooperation expected in return for what has been many > thousands of hours of work. I note most of those I joined with > are either deceased, severely disabled, or plain ole' MIA.. > now it is my Time. ... > > You just read my last. ... > > For those who think they see me in future times I can only wish > you severe Tinnitus in your dreams. For those who know me > well (eMail, whatever) and see me, know I will be smiling also. > It is to you I say "adieu mein frenz and adios .. grazie' [hugs] > for all the Good Times! May you and yours always bear well > with all Life brings you". > > /0ut" > --murphy > >And people wonder why I call them Famous Last Words. Having read that post it is noted you selectivity edit to reach your point of speculation "My first post as "murphy". MID: <h2bjon$vtc$1@news.eternal-september.org> You just read my last." It is very obvious from murphy's first post to see that poster is a "helper". What happened to turn the poster off, Derbyshire? Do tell. You threatened murphy with one of your kootSoots? Ironic as your closing line is too a lie. Master Derbyshire demands the last word. It is your trademark - now, deliver it.
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| From | thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-19 19:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j58i9v$aro$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8158 |
On 19/09/2011 5:05 PM, "kaffel'latte", an obvious murphy sock, wrote:
NaN> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer
NaN> Derbyshire hiding as thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> all the while
NaN> asking of --
Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias.
What does your URL have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> did ask a lot of questions with:
What does that have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> Who is " murphy", Derbyshire?
Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias.
NaN> Pretending to know the code runs for your script kiddee runs is
NaN> very relevant to the newsgroup diversions you post, Derbyshire.
Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias.
NaN> "hisselv" is Mongolian engrish for the first person.
What does your classic erroneous presupposition that
comp.lang.java.programmer is a Mongolian-language newsgroup have to do
with Java, murphy?
NaN> Your education that devoid of worldly knowledge?
What does your classic erroneous presupposition of a question have to do
with Java, murphy? A standard Western education up to and including a
Ph.D in astronomy does not include Mongolian language studies, murphy.
NaN> ahhh. *that* you will get to find out in due course.
What does your vague threat have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> Why is there a RCMP unit watching your trailer?
What does your classic erroneous presupposition of a question have to do
with Java, murphy? I don't know who lives in that trailer you dug up a
picture of in Google Street View, murphy, but it certainly isn't me, and
if you've filed false police complaints against its inhabitants, murphy,
there are likely to be consequences. For you, murphy.
If you are lucky, murphy, they will realize you're a paranoid
schizophrenic, haul you to a mental hospital, and get you the treatment
you desperately need.
If you are unlucky, murphy, they'll simply arrest you and charge you
with misdemeanor obstruction of justice. You'll probably get off with
only a fairly hefty fine, murphy, but if it's a repeat offense, and
given your paranoia and already-demonstrated flooding of ISP admins with
huge volumes of repeated false complaints that seems fairly likely, you
could get jail time, murphy.
NaN> Project much? Oh Yes, continually. Usually in thousand line rants.
What do your ironic classic erroneous presupposition of a question and
ironic classic unsubstantiated claim of an answer have to do with Java,
murphy? You just recently bombarded twelve newsgroups with multiposted
copies of a thousand line rant yourself, murphy, including posting two
copies in rec.arts.sf.tv alone, whereas I do not rant at all. This isn't
even a case of the pot calling the kettle black, murphy; more like the
pot calling the fire engine black.
NaN> Do point at any proof there is a missing name of "murphy".
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy? I didn't claim that you should be *on* your list, murphy, only
that you created it. Still suffering from reading comprehension
problems, murphy?
NaN> FYI.
Classic ambiguity.
NaN> It is the naive who approach Usenet with a concept of anonymity
NaN> as protection around the intent to disrupt.
What does your naivete have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> Paranoia for them comes later, too late in many instances.
What does the timing of the onset of your paranoia have to do with Java,
murphy?
NaN> You Master Derbyshire are a prime example of that stupidity.
Who is "Master Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias. However, the previous two sentences describe you very
well -- paranoid and hiding behind a mask of ever-changing nyms -- so
perhaps you are "Master Derbyshire", murphy. Certainly that is what the
evidence indicates.
NaN> Almost set in stone is the attribute of low self esteem owned by
NaN> the common <i>rodentis trollis maximus</i>.
What is "rodentis trollis maximus", murphy? There is nothing in any
field guide, encyclopedia, or taxonomic Web site with that Latin name.
And if there was I highly doubt it would have anything to do with Java,
murphy.
NaN> Well earned is the lame "trailer park trash" for which that
NaN> broken Winnebago is pretty much symbolic of all you post
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy?
NaN> in your insane desire to be wanted by the folks you believe have
NaN> code skills which challenge
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy?
NaN> your empty taunts.
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy?
NaN> What is not known yet is how the Pembroke community will handle
NaN> knowing your Usenet activity.
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy?
NaN> The print press grinds slowly but inevitably.
What does that have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> do put some thought to how the superintendent at IBGC will view your
NaN> activity
What is "IBGC", murphy, and what does it have to do with Java?
NaN> knowing you are in fact quite insane.
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy?
NaN> Having read that post it is noted you selectivity edit to reach your
NaN> point of speculation
What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have to do
with Java, murphy?
NaN> "My first post as "murphy".
NaN> MID: <h2bjon$vtc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
NaN> You just read my last."
Famous Last Words. Also somewhat erroneous, since you just posted as
"kaffel'atte", not as "murphy", murphy.
NaN> It is very obvious from murphy's first post to see that poster is a
NaN> "helper".
What does your claim have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> What happened to turn the poster off, Derbyshire?
Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias.
NaN> Do tell.
What does your directive have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> You threatened murphy with one of your kootSoots?
What are "kootSoots", murphy, and what do they have to do with Java?
NaN> Ironic as your closing line is too a lie.
What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have to do
with Java, murphy?
NaN> Master Derbyshire demands the last word.
Who is "Master Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup
using that alias.
NaN> It is your trademark - now, deliver it.
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy? I have no trademarks, murphy, common law or registered. Still
suffering from hallucinations, murphy?
"I had 'volunteered (years back) to support those who do endeavor
to provide free Free Usenet access, support those who offered
subscription based Free Usenet access, nothing more than
cooperation expected in return for what has been many
thousands of hours of work. I note most of those I joined with
are either deceased, severely disabled, or plain ole' MIA..
now it is my Time. ...
You just read my last. ...
For those who think they see me in future times I can only wish
you severe Tinnitus in your dreams. For those who know me
well (eMail, whatever) and see me, know I will be smiling also.
It is to you I say "adieu mein frenz and adios .. grazie' [hugs]
for all the Good Times! May you and yours always bear well
with all Life brings you".
/0ut"
--murphy
http://www.uffnet.com/kookkamp/goodbye.htm
And people wonder why I call them Famous Last Words.
P.S. You forgot to include a copy of your famous paranoid "Lits 'o Haet"
in your post, murphy. Still suffering from memory problems, murphy?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "kaffel'latte" <jiggingjava@qmail.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-19 20:45 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Style Police (a rant) k00k Derbyshire spins freely |
| Message-ID | <j58nrm$mkg$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8164 |
Derbyshire - hiding as thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> did
foam bigtime in abandoned paranoia posting as spew:
%%On 19/09/2011 5:05 PM, "kaffel'latte", an obvious murphy sock, wrote:
%%% Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer
%%
%%% Derbyshire hiding as thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium%% all the while
%%% asking of --
%%
%%Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
%%that alias.
%%
%%What does your URL have to do with Java, murphy?
%%
%%% did ask a lot of questions with:
%%
%%What does that have to do with Java, murphy?
%%
%%% Who is " murphy", Derbyshire?
%%
%%Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
%%that alias.
%%
%%% Pretending to know the code runs for your script kiddee runs is
%%% very relevant to the newsgroup diversions you post, Derbyshire.
%%
%%Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
%%that alias.
%%
%%% "hisselv" is Mongolian engrish for the first person.
%%
%%What does your classic erroneous presupposition that
%%comp.lang.java.programmer is a Mongolian-language newsgroup have to do
%%with Java, murphy?
%%
%%% Your education that devoid of worldly knowledge?
%%
%%What does your classic erroneous presupposition of a question have to do
%%with Java, murphy? A standard Western education up to and including a
%%Ph.D in astronomy does not include Mongolian language studies, murphy.
%%
%%% ahhh. *that* you will get to find out in due course.
%%
%%What does your vague threat have to do with Java, murphy?
%%
%%% Why is there a RCMP unit watching your trailer?
%%
%%What does your classic erroneous presupposition of a question have to do
%%with Java, murphy? I don't know who lives in that trailer you dug up a
%%picture of in Google Street View, murphy, but it certainly isn't me, and
%%if you've filed false police complaints against its inhabitants, murphy,
%%there are likely to be consequences. For you, murphy.
%%
%%If you are lucky, murphy, they will realize you're a paranoid
%%schizophrenic, haul you to a mental hospital, and get you the treatment
%%you desperately need.
%%
%%If you are unlucky, murphy, they'll simply arrest you and charge you
%%with misdemeanor obstruction of justice. You'll probably get off with
%%only a fairly hefty fine, murphy, but if it's a repeat offense, and
%%given your paranoia and already-demonstrated flooding of ISP admins with
%%huge volumes of repeated false complaints that seems fairly likely, you
%%could get jail time, murphy.
%%
%%% Project much? Oh Yes, continually. Usually in thousand line rants.
%%
%%What do your ironic classic erroneous presupposition of a question and
%%ironic classic unsubstantiated claim of an answer have to do with Java,
%%murphy? You just recently bombarded twelve newsgroups with multiposted
%%copies of a thousand line rant yourself, murphy, including posting two
%%copies in rec.arts.sf.tv alone, whereas I do not rant at all. This isn't
%%even a case of the pot calling the kettle black, murphy; more like the
%%pot calling the fire engine black.
%%
%%% Do point at any proof there is a missing name of "murphy".
%%
%%What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
%%murphy? I didn't claim that you should be *on* your list, murphy, only
%%that you created it. Still suffering from reading comprehension
%%problems, murphy?
%%
%%% FYI.
%%
%%Classic ambiguity.
%%
%%% It is the naive who approach Usenet with a concept of anonymity
%%% as protection around the intent to disrupt.
%%
%%What does your naivete have to do with Java, murphy?
%%
%%% Paranoia for them comes later, too late in many instances.
%%
%%What does the timing of the onset of your paranoia have to do with Java,
%%murphy?
%%
%%% You Master Derbyshire are a prime example of that stupidity.
%%
%%Who is "Master Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup
%%using that alias. However, the previous two sentences describe you very
%%well -- paranoid and hiding behind a mask of ever-changing nyms -- so
%%perhaps you are "Master Derbyshire", murphy. Certainly that is what the
%%evidence indicates.
%%
%%% Almost set in stone is the attribute of low self esteem owned by
%%% the common <i%%rodentis trollis maximus</i%%.
%%
%%What is "rodentis trollis maximus", murphy? There is nothing in any
%%field guide, encyclopedia, or taxonomic Web site with that Latin name.
%%And if there was I highly doubt it would have anything to do with Java,
%%murphy.
%%
%%% Well earned is the lame "trailer park trash" for which that
%%% broken Winnebago is pretty much symbolic of all you post
%%
%%What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
%%murphy?
%%
%%% in your insane desire to be wanted by the folks you believe have
%%% code skills which challenge
%%
%%What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
%%murphy?
%%
%%% your empty taunts.
%%
%%What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
%%murphy?
%%
%%% What is not known yet is how the Pembroke community will handle
%%% knowing your Usenet activity.
%%
%%What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
%%murphy?
%%
%%% The print press grinds slowly but inevitably.
%%
%%What does that have to do with Java, murphy?
%%
%%% do put some thought to how the superintendent at IBGC will view your
%%% activity
%%
%%What is "IBGC", murphy, and what does it have to do with Java?
%%
%%% knowing you are in fact quite insane.
%%
%%What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
%%murphy?
%%
%%% Having read that post it is noted you selectivity edit to reach your
%%% point of speculation
%%
%%What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have to do
%%with Java, murphy?
%%
%%% "My first post as "murphy".
%%% MID: <h2bjon$vtc$1@news.eternal-september.org%%
%%% You just read my last."
%%
%%Famous Last Words. Also somewhat erroneous, since you just posted as
%%"kaffel'atte", not as "murphy", murphy.
%%
%%% It is very obvious from murphy's first post to see that poster is a
%%% "helper".
%%
%%What does your claim have to do with Java, murphy?
%%
%%% What happened to turn the poster off, Derbyshire?
%%
%%Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
%%that alias.
%%
%%% Do tell.
%%
%%What does your directive have to do with Java, murphy?
%%
%%% You threatened murphy with one of your kootSoots?
%%
%%What are "kootSoots", murphy, and what do they have to do with Java?
%%
%%% Ironic as your closing line is too a lie.
%%
%%What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have to do
%%with Java, murphy?
%%
%%% Master Derbyshire demands the last word.
%%
%%Who is "Master Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup
%%using that alias.
%%
%%% It is your trademark - now, deliver it.
%%
%%What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
%%murphy? I have no trademarks, murphy, common law or registered. Still
%%suffering from hallucinations, murphy?
%%
%% "I had 'volunteered (years back) to support those who do endeavor
%% to provide free Free Usenet access, support those who offered
%% subscription based Free Usenet access, nothing more than
%% cooperation expected in return for what has been many
%% thousands of hours of work. I note most of those I joined with
%% are either deceased, severely disabled, or plain ole' MIA..
%% now it is my Time. ...
%%
%% You just read my last. ...
%%
%% For those who think they see me in future times I can only wish
%% you severe Tinnitus in your dreams. For those who know me
%% well (eMail, whatever) and see me, know I will be smiling also.
%% It is to you I say "adieu mein frenz and adios .. grazie' [hugs]
%% for all the Good Times! May you and yours always bear well
%% with all Life brings you".
%%
%% /0ut"
%% --murphy
%%
%%http://www.uffnet.com/kookkamp/goodbye.htm
%%
oH dear. A k00k relying on a k00k's foamage.
How surprising is that. Not.
%%And people wonder why I call them Famous Last Words.
%%
Indeed. Reads as a loop.
%%P.S. You forgot to include a copy of your famous paranoid "Lits 'o Haet"
%%in your post, murphy. Still suffering from memory problems, murphy?
You deny informing us all just who this "murphy"
is, Derbyshire.
Do you not know? Is that the problem?
Why do you fear that poster so, Derbyshire. It is
just a name, a well reputed name, but a name
nonetheless!
oH Dear. And so transparent a poster, easily
mimed LOL
List? Which list? There are a few to choose from.
You really believe you are so important you warrant
munging Google archives with lists!
Fix that outlook, Spammer.
Do tell us what it is you do in the Elgin St.
forest, Derbyshire.
You carry a trenching shovel to that place, is
this where murphy is buried?
If not, who is?
The best you are capable of is a mime of
"tholen the OS2 kook" in using that lame followup to.
How debilitating that has to be for you, the
original Spock spook of fantasy columns everywhere.
Time for you to dive under the blanket?
BOO!!
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-21 18:37 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Style Police (a rant) k00k Derbyshire spins freely |
| Message-ID | <j5dovb$1t6$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8166 |
On 19/09/2011 8:45 PM, "kaffel'latte", an obvious murphy sock, wrote:
NaN> Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer
NaN> Derbyshire - hiding as thoolen <th00len@th0lenbot.thorium> did foam
NaN> bigtime in abandoned paranoia posting as spew:
Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias. And what do your paranoia, your foam, and your spew have to
do with Java, murphy?
NaN> oH dear. A k00k relying on a k00k's foamage.
What does your relying on a k00k's foamage have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> How surprising is that. Not.
What does your lack of surprise have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> Indeed. Reads as a loop.
What does your tendency towards repetition have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> You deny informing us all just who this "murphy" is, Derbyshire.
Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias.
NaN> Do you not know?
What does your question have to do with Java, murphy?
What does your ironic use of anonymity while demanding others post
non-anonymously and trying to unmask anonymous users have to do with
Java, murphy?
NaN> Is that the problem?
What does your classic erroneous presupposition of a question have to do
with Java, murphy? The only problem here is you, murphy.
NaN> Why do you fear that poster so, Derbyshire.
Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias.
NaN> It is just a name, a well reputed name, but a name nonetheless!
What does your classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim have to do
with Java, murphy? Your name is not at all well reputed, murphy, because
you are not at all well reputed, murphy. You are a trolling, off-topic,
noncontributing, potty-mouthed deadweight loss of bandwidth on the 'net,
murphy, and the sooner you are permanently offline, the better.
NaN> oH Dear. And so transparent a poster, easily mimed LOL
What does your amusement at your own childish antics have to do with
Java, murphy?
NaN> List? Which list? There are a few to choose from.
What does your question have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> You really believe you are so important you warrant munging Google
NaN> archives with lists!
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy? It is you who believes I am so important as to warrant your
multiposting your trademarked Lits o' Haet all over usenet where it is
off-topic, murphy.
NaN> Fix that outlook, Spammer.
Who is "Spammer", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that
alias.
NaN> Do tell us what it is you do in the Elgin St. forest, Derbyshire.
Who is "Derbyshire", murphy? There is nobody in this newsgroup using
that alias.
NaN> You carry a trenching shovel to that place, is this where murphy is
buried?
What does your unsubstantiated and erroneous allegation of murder on
Derbyshire's part have to do with Java, murphy? Of course, the fact that
you continue to post from behind an ever-shifting nym establishes
clearly that your allegation is a false one, murphy, as if it were
accurate you would be in no condition to continue polluting cljp.
NaN> If not, who is?
What does your unsubstantiated presupposition that Derbyshire is a
murderer have to do with Java, murphy?
NaN> The best you are capable of is a mime of "tholen the OS2 kook" in
using
NaN> that lame followup to.
What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java,
murphy? And who is "tholen the OS2 kook", murphy? There is nobody in
this newsgroup using that alias.
NaN> How debilitating that has to be for you, the original Spock spook of
NaN> fantasy columns everywhere.
Who is "the original Spock spook", murphy? There is nobody in this
newsgroup using that alias.
NaN> Time for you to dive under the blanket?
What does your inappropriate question have to do with Java, murphy?
There are singles newsgroups, murphy, though I doubt that that kind of
invitation directed at a complete stranger will be well-received in any
of them, murphy.
NaN> BOO!!
What does your childishness have to do with Java, murphy?
"I had 'volunteered (years back) to support those who do endeavor
to provide free Free Usenet access, support those who offered
subscription based Free Usenet access, nothing more than
cooperation expected in return for what has been many
thousands of hours of work. I note most of those I joined with
are either deceased, severely disabled, or plain ole' MIA..
now it is my Time. ...
You just read my last. ...
For those who think they see me in future times I can only wish
you severe Tinnitus in your dreams. For those who know me
well (eMail, whatever) and see me, know I will be smiling also.
It is to you I say "adieu mein frenz and adios .. grazie' [hugs]
for all the Good Times! May you and yours always bear well
with all Life brings you".
/0ut"
--murphy
http://www.uffnet.com/kookkamp/goodbye.htm
And people wonder why I call them Famous Last Words.
P.S. You forgot to include a copy of your famous paranoid "Lits 'o Haet"
in your post, murphy. Still suffering from memory problems, murphy?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-26 15:13 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <82ad7095-9bc3-4308-b246-12b8e2dc7f0c@j19g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #8112 |
On Sep 17, 7:36 pm, Cthun <cthun_...@qmail.net.au> wrote: > On 16/09/2011 6:26 AM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: > > On Sep 15, 10:37 am, Cthun <cthun_...@qmail.net.au> wrote: > >>http://www.clojure.org/ > >>http://try-clojure.org/ > > > Eww! No thanks. > > *shrug* Suit yourself. But don't knock it until you've tried it. I'll do as I please. Your argument could as well be used to support eating shit, jumping off a bridge without a bungee cord, or skydiving without a parachute. > >> [calls me a liar] > > > No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me > > are at all true. > > What?? Where did I call you a liar? Two posts ago. > >> Java finally is adding something called "try-with-resources". If > >> Java had had macros we wouldn't have needed to wait. He could have > >> written a try-with-resources macro built around regular try. Or even > >> if he didn't have the chops for macro writing himself, as soon as > >> there was much demand for try-with-resources someone would have made > >> it available as a library in short order. But instead, the Java > >> community had to wait until Sun/Oracle got their act together and > >> added it. > > > And it works, instead of being buggy as hell and prone to name capture > > issues, and Java codebases aren't chock full of idiosyncratic macro > > invocations but are instead pretty standardized, so any skilled Java > > professional can easily read any of that code and maintain it. > > Lisps tend to accrue fairly standard libraries of third-party macros > everyone learns to recognize. More complexity to learn. And this stuff is supposed to make the programmer's job *easier*? > And of course you usually have access to the macro's source. "Having access to" and "being able to read and understand" can sometimes be worlds apart. In my years of working with other peoples' code, I've seen shit that will turn you white. Also check out The Daily WTF. > > Sounds like Lisp easily turns into a Tower of Babel where no-one can > > understand anyone else's code. > > The ability to define functions or classes already suffices to allow > programmers to turn a language into a Tower of Babel, Call semantics for functions are well defined -- argument evaluation, etc. Those for macros are pretty much arbitrary -- whatever the macro author intended. (Or didn't, but caused anyway.) > yet nearly all languages allow user-defined functions and/or classes in > some form or another, and ones that allow neither are considered archaic > and crippled. A car without an automatic ignition would also be considered archaic and crippled; that doesn't mean a car without a satellite radio would be. > >> C's are much less clean because they do nothing to help avoid symbol > >> capture and they operate on text rather than the abstract syntax tree. > > > Something familiar in how you write. You remind me of someone I had a > > very long argument with here, long ago. Appropriately, his name was > > "Bent". > > [implied insult deleted] No. None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at all true. > >>> Most operator precedence rules you'll need will have been ingrained in > >>> grade school math class, and you can always *elect* to parenthesize > >>> when you want to be sure of a particular order of execution and don't > >>> remember the precedence rule (or it goes the wrong way for your needs > >>> in that case). > > >> Why leave any doubt? > > > There *is* no doubt, in most cases, for anyone who's graduated from > > kindergarten. > > Quick quiz: I finished school a while ago. Go fuck yourself. > >> Besides, fully-parenthesized helps make the source code be close to a > >> directly readable version of the abstract syntax tree. > > > "Readable" is obviously also in the eye of the beholder. :P > > Perhaps. Verbose, on the other hand, isn't, and Java is quite verbose at > any given level of expressiveness compared to, especially, Lisps. The price of type safety, which lets a lot more problems be caught at compile time, and with more informative error messages. > >> And that makes it easier for the macro processor to work, and for > >> the coder to reason about their macros. > > > And now we're back to this. To satisfy your macro yen, you make the > > whole rest of the language suck. > > [calls me a liar] No, no, no! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at all true. > > No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me > > are at all true. > > Whaaaaa????? You heard me. > > No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me > > are at all true. > > WTF?!?!?! You heard me. > >>> The problem is that it's COBOLy, BASICy, and borderline INTERCALy. > > >> This much is true. > > > A single point we agree on! Wow. :P > > No need for sarcasm. It means [severe implied insult deleted]. No. None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at all true.
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| From | Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-26 19:34 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j5r25g$4ti$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8345 |
On 26/09/2011 6:13 PM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: > On Sep 17, 7:36 pm, Cthun<cthun_...@qmail.net.au> wrote: >> On 16/09/2011 6:26 AM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: >>> On Sep 15, 10:37 am, Cthun<cthun_...@qmail.net.au> wrote: >>>> [calls me a liar] >> >>> No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me >>> are at all true. >> >> What?? Where did I call you a liar? > > Two posts ago. I did not. >> Lisps tend to accrue fairly standard libraries of third-party macros >> everyone learns to recognize. > > More complexity to learn. And this stuff is supposed to make the > programmer's job *easier*? All programming languages and libraries have "complexity to learn". >> And of course you usually have access to the macro's source. > > "Having access to" and "being able to read and understand" can > sometimes be worlds apart. In my years of working with other peoples' > code, I've seen shit that will turn you white. Also check out The > Daily WTF. Fortunately, standard library macros don't tend to be terrible like that -- at least for open source implementations. >> The ability to define functions or classes already suffices to allow >> programmers to turn a language into a Tower of Babel, > > Call semantics for functions are well defined -- argument evaluation, > etc. Those for macros are pretty much arbitrary -- whatever the macro > author intended. (Or didn't, but caused anyway.) A specious argument. What a function's results are is just as arbitrary, but we accept functions. >> yet nearly all languages allow user-defined functions and/or classes in >> some form or another, and ones that allow neither are considered archaic >> and crippled. > > A car without an automatic ignition would also be considered archaic > and crippled; that doesn't mean a car without a satellite radio would > be. What about one without fuel injection? >>> Something familiar in how you write. You remind me of someone I had a >>> very long argument with here, long ago. Appropriately, his name was >>> "Bent". >> >> [implied insult deleted] > > No. None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me > are at all true. WTF?? >> Quick quiz: > > I finished school a while ago. Go fuck yourself. Okay. I think maybe we're done here.
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| From | Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-10-01 06:49 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e112a92b-d99e-4220-82c8-d85cddb388e6@g29g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #8351 |
On Sep 26, 7:34 pm, Cthun <cthun_...@qmail.net.au> wrote:
> On 26/09/2011 6:13 PM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote:
> > On Sep 17, 7:36 pm, Cthun<cthun_...@qmail.net.au> wrote:
> >> On 16/09/2011 6:26 AM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote:
> >>> On Sep 15, 10:37 am, Cthun<cthun_...@qmail.net.au> wrote:
> >>>> [calls me a liar]
>
> >>> No! None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me
> >>> are at all true.
>
> >> What?? Where did I call you a liar?
>
> > Two posts ago.
>
> [calls me a liar]
No, no, a thousand times no! None of the nasty things that you have
said or implied about me are at all true.
> >> Lisps tend to accrue fairly standard libraries of third-party macros
> >> everyone learns to recognize.
>
> > More complexity to learn. And this stuff is supposed to make the
> > programmer's job *easier*?
>
> All programming languages and libraries have "complexity to learn".
Some more than others.
> >> And of course you usually have access to the macro's source.
>
> > "Having access to" and "being able to read and understand" can
> > sometimes be worlds apart. In my years of working with other peoples'
> > code, I've seen shit that will turn you white. Also check out The
> > Daily WTF.
>
> Fortunately, standard library macros don't tend to be terrible like that
> -- at least for open source implementations.
Need I remind you once again of your own bugabear, the LOOP macro?
> >> The ability to define functions or classes already suffices to allow
> >> programmers to turn a language into a Tower of Babel,
>
> > Call semantics for functions are well defined -- argument evaluation,
> > etc. Those for macros are pretty much arbitrary -- whatever the macro
> > author intended. (Or didn't, but caused anyway.)
>
> [insult deleted].
No. None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me
are at all true.
> What a function's results are is just as arbitrary, but we accept functions.
The behavior with respect to argument evaluation isn't arbitrary. And
functions don't potentially behave differently if one of the arguments
contains an expression with a variable with one name, versus a
semantically equivalent expression with another name.
For example, in Java if I have
int x = 3;
int y = someObj.someMeth(x);
and change it to
int z = 3;
int y = someObj.someMeth(z);
the semantics doesn't change. But if someMeth was replaced with
someLispMacro, that might no longer be the case if the macro has
internal local variables named x or z.
To make it even more concrete, suppose someMeth is a static method of
SomeClass rather than an instance method of someObj and it's
public static void someMeth (int a) {
int z = 18;
return z*a;
}
(trivial, yes, and no real need for the local, but just for argument's
sake).
This will work fine with the second call above (if someObj is of
SomeClass): you'll get 54 returned.
But what happens if it's made into a macro instead, which inlines the
above code? Then it performs substitution rather than passing
arguments in a function-calling manner and ends up as
int z = 18;
return z*x;
or
int z = 18;
return z*z;
and we get 54 with the first call above but 324 instead with the
second one!
Again, you may have some klunky method to namespace the local z here
to make name collisions like this less likely, but accidents can and
will happen and the resulting bugs will be exceptionally difficult to
track down because a widespread programmer expectation is violated.
Indeed who will think to see if changing the *name* of a variable in
the calling procedure will magically fix it?
> >> yet nearly all languages allow user-defined functions and/or classes in
> >> some form or another, and ones that allow neither are considered archaic
> >> and crippled.
>
> > A car without an automatic ignition would also be considered archaic
> > and crippled; that doesn't mean a car without a satellite radio would
> > be.
>
> What about one without fuel injection?
Macros are hardly like fuel injection.
> >>> Something familiar in how you write. You remind me of someone I had a
> >>> very long argument with here, long ago. Appropriately, his name was
> >>> "Bent".
>
> >> [implied insult deleted]
>
> > No. None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me
> > are at all true.
>
> WTF??
You heard me. I said none of the nasty things that you have said or
implied about me are at all true.
> >> Quick quiz:
>
> > I finished school a while ago. Go fuck yourself.
>
> Okay. [implied insult deleted]
None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
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| From | Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-10-01 09:21 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <9697849.470.1317486090561.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prec11> |
| In reply to | #8441 |
On Saturday, October 1, 2011 6:49:10 AM UTC-7, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: > On Sep 26, 7:34 pm, Cthun <cthu...@qmail.net.au> wrote: > > On 26/09/2011 6:13 PM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: > > > On Sep 17, 7:36 pm, Cthun<cthu...@qmail.net.au> wrote: > > >> On 16/09/2011 6:26 AM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: > > >>> On Sep 15, 10:37 am, Cthun<cthu...@qmail.net.au> wrote: Would you two lovebirds get a room, please? This is not the forum for your lovemaking. Just send to each other's email and leave the rest of us out of it, please. I beg you. Don't use a public forum for your private conversation. Please. I beg you. Please. -- Lew
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| From | Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-10-01 14:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j67lfd$6hf$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8447 |
On 01/10/2011 12:21 PM, Lew wrote: > On Saturday, October 1, 2011 6:49:10 AM UTC-7, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: >> On Sep 26, 7:34 pm, Cthun<cthu...@qmail.net.au> wrote: >>> On 26/09/2011 6:13 PM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: >>>> On Sep 17, 7:36 pm, Cthun<cthu...@qmail.net.au> wrote: >>>>> On 16/09/2011 6:26 AM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: >>>>>> On Sep 15, 10:37 am, Cthun<cthu...@qmail.net.au> wrote: > > Would you two lovebirds get a room, please? This is not the forum for your lovemaking. What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java, Lew?
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| From | Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-10-01 20:53 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.28f1801343347e299896c4@202.177.16.121> |
| In reply to | #8454 |
In article <j67lfd$6hf$1@speranza.aioe.org>, cthun_117@qmail.net.au says... > > Would you two lovebirds get a room, please? This is not the forum > > for your lovemaking. > > What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java, Lew? The answer is: It makes me smile! Kind regards, Wanja -- ..Alesi's problem was that the back of the car was jumping up and down dangerously - and I can assure you from having been teammate to Jean Alesi and knowing what kind of cars that he can pull up with, when Jean Alesi says that a car is dangerous - it is. [Jonathan Palmer] --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---
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| From | Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-10-01 21:12 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j68dpc$nt$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #8455 |
On 01/10/2011 2:53 PM, Wanja Gayk wrote: >> What does your classic erroneous presupposition have to do with Java, Lew? > > The answer is: It makes me smile! Classic non sequitur.
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| From | Retahiv Oopsiscame <roopsisc@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-10-05 06:17 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <3aa08791-8756-4fa7-adb7-b1a4554cf4be@u6g2000vbo.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #8447 |
On Oct 1, 12:21 pm, Lew <lewbl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Saturday, October 1, 2011 6:49:10 AM UTC-7, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: > > On Sep 26, 7:34 pm, Cthun <cthu...@qmail.net.au> wrote: > > > On 26/09/2011 6:13 PM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: > > > > On Sep 17, 7:36 pm, Cthun<cthu...@qmail.net.au> wrote: > > > >> On 16/09/2011 6:26 AM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: > > > >>> On Sep 15, 10:37 am, Cthun<cthu...@qmail.net.au> wrote: > > Would you two [insult deleted] get a room, please? None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at all true. > This is not the forum for your [implies something false]. You're quite insane. > Just send to each other's email and leave the rest of us out of it, please. This is an unmoderated newsgroup, so suck it! > I beg you. Learn to use a killfile properly for threads and/or posters that don't interest you. I beg you. > Don't use a public forum for your private conversation. I think the appropriate term here is "erroneous presupposition". We're discussing Lisp vs. other languages in a comp.lang.* newsgroup. It's not really even off-topic, since Java is one of those "other languages". > Please. > > I beg you. > > Please. Get a working killfile. Please. I beg you. Please.
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| From | "Cthun" <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-12 04:56 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j4jvXs$pom$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #7843 |
>On 11/09/2011 7:54 PM, Retahiv Oopsiscame wrote: >> On Sep 11, 5:11 pm, Cthun <cthun_...@qmail.net.au> wrote: >>> There's a way around that, and it's called Clojure. >> >> *googles* >> >> Bleah! >> >> You could have saved everyone a lot of time if you'd said up front >> that it was a fucking Lisp, Cthun. :P > >And what, pray tell, is wrong with Lisp, Oopsiscame? Let alone *so* >wrong as to be deserving of foul language for emphasis? my apoligy I lisp
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| From | Cthun <cthun_117@qmail.net.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-09-12 05:12 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j4kids$ef6$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #7869 |
On 12/09/2011 4:56 AM, Cthun did not write: > my apoligy I lisp So much for "I'm going away and I'm never coming back", eh, murphy? Liar.
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