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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #5905 > unrolled thread
| Started by | rop rop <rop049@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2011-07-06 08:35 -0700 |
| Last post | 2011-07-09 12:16 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 277 — 46 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.java.programmer
Arithmetic overflow checking rop rop <rop049@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 08:35 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-06 09:42 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking stefan@nyniva.se - 2011-07-06 11:30 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-06 11:36 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-18 23:06 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-06 10:16 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-07-07 02:26 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-18 23:07 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-07-07 07:11 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-07 10:02 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-07-07 17:51 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-07 20:04 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-07-07 20:29 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking rop rop <rop049@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 15:52 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-18 23:12 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-07-09 10:31 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking rop rop <rop049@gmail.com> - 2011-07-09 02:58 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-07-09 08:53 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-09 07:46 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-18 23:17 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-07-18 23:22 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-10 01:47 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking China Blue Dolls <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-10 02:47 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-07-10 06:04 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking China Blue Dolls <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-10 03:29 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-10 20:52 +0300
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-07-10 23:29 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-10 04:44 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-07-12 11:33 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-12 04:17 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-07-12 12:33 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-12 05:24 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-07-12 21:45 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-12 05:25 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-12 10:21 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-12 23:54 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-07-12 19:14 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-13 00:20 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-12 09:26 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-07-12 10:52 -0600
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-12 10:48 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-12 16:54 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-12 11:35 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-12 10:13 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-07-12 21:53 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-14 23:41 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-15 10:56 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-15 21:27 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> - 2011-07-20 09:22 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-20 10:51 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking gordonb.3urm7@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-07-20 15:39 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-07-21 12:12 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-07-10 09:28 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-10 06:52 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-10 14:47 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-14 23:07 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-07-10 12:25 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-10 10:47 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 07:58 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-11 10:48 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 14:40 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-11 14:54 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 15:55 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-07-11 21:51 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 21:31 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-11 23:16 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-12 06:28 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2011-07-24 22:13 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Lew Pitcher <lpitcher@teksavvy.com> - 2011-07-25 10:24 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-07-12 09:05 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-12 02:22 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-07-12 11:34 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-12 03:04 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-12 03:33 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-12 08:29 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-07-12 13:18 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-12 11:39 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-12 12:38 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-12 13:20 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-12 13:23 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-12 21:08 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-12 14:48 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-12 15:24 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-12 16:09 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-13 10:38 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-13 11:00 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-13 12:16 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-13 13:10 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-13 13:21 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-13 13:41 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-14 21:10 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-07-15 11:57 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-15 04:36 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2011-08-13 21:54 +0300
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-13 00:52 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-13 07:45 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Wolfgang Draxinger <wdraxinger@darkstargames.de> - 2011-09-08 21:02 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Wolfgang Draxinger <wdraxinger@darkstargames.de> - 2011-09-08 21:12 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-09-08 19:15 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Wolfgang Draxinger <wdraxinger@darkstargames.de> - 2011-09-08 22:24 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-07-08 00:30 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-07-08 01:29 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-08 07:38 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-07-08 20:40 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-08 18:17 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-07-08 19:49 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-08 22:26 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-07-08 17:42 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-07-09 10:21 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-10 10:53 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-10 18:07 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-10 11:29 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-10 19:22 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 16:40 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-21 23:06 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 19:38 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Henderson <h1@g1.f1> - 2011-07-22 00:27 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-22 13:00 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-10 17:17 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-08 10:23 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-07-08 19:30 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 08:04 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 16:43 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-15 00:28 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-18 23:09 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-15 00:14 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-15 07:00 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-15 08:09 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-20 22:07 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-15 23:29 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-15 22:26 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 00:32 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-16 11:00 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-16 11:15 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 15:41 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-16 23:18 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-17 00:30 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-07-16 08:39 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-16 10:33 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 15:51 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-17 08:46 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-18 07:03 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-18 06:21 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 15:43 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-07-17 09:50 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-17 08:15 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-07-18 01:12 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 16:50 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-18 06:56 -0500
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-18 19:26 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-18 15:03 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-20 22:16 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Henderson <h1@g1.f1> - 2011-07-20 22:25 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-21 08:50 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-21 07:37 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 16:52 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-21 12:19 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 16:54 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-21 14:46 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 18:10 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-21 23:22 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-07-21 21:47 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-23 10:15 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-16 10:46 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-16 11:13 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-20 22:09 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 21:01 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-07-21 07:05 -0300
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-21 06:28 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-21 12:32 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 16:58 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-21 15:58 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 19:14 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-22 13:07 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-22 17:33 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-22 13:36 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-22 23:16 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-22 16:50 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-23 20:09 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-24 08:56 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-23 09:37 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-23 11:23 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-23 12:04 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-23 14:45 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-23 11:51 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-23 22:39 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-07-25 10:20 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> - 2011-07-25 13:29 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-25 13:35 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-23 09:39 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-23 21:09 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-23 21:24 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 16:57 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-20 22:12 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-07-21 06:41 -0300
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 16:38 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-06 22:28 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-06 22:30 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-07-06 22:32 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking rop rop <rop049@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 00:30 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-07-07 07:54 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking rop rop <rop049@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 05:36 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2011-07-07 19:11 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-07-07 14:21 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-07-09 16:34 +0300
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-07-06 22:41 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-07 14:34 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-07 14:53 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-07 17:12 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 17:29 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-08 10:27 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 13:15 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-19 20:54 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-19 18:07 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-19 21:31 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-07-20 07:36 -0300
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid> - 2011-07-20 11:58 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-20 09:51 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid> - 2011-07-21 12:11 +0100
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-21 12:43 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Tom McGlynn <taqmcglynn@googlemail.com> - 2011-07-21 07:15 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-21 07:35 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-21 15:38 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-21 09:03 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-07-21 12:00 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-22 17:16 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-23 11:28 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-23 21:03 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Henderson <h1@g1.f1> - 2011-07-23 22:55 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-24 09:16 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-24 10:40 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-24 10:54 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-24 11:09 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-24 12:53 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking markspace <-@.> - 2011-07-24 15:15 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-24 15:41 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Henderson <h1@g1.f1> - 2011-07-25 03:21 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-25 00:56 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-07-25 07:03 -0300
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2011-07-26 09:43 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-07-25 11:06 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Henderson <h1@g1.f1> - 2011-07-25 11:12 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-25 09:09 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-25 09:30 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-25 13:33 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-07-26 03:04 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-07-26 03:28 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Henderson <h1@g1.f1> - 2011-07-26 04:53 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-07-26 11:35 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-26 10:48 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 17:00 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-20 19:50 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-07-20 23:21 -0300
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-07-21 12:52 +0000
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Henderson <h1@g1.f1> - 2011-07-21 15:58 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-21 17:06 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-20 14:35 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-20 18:22 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-21 14:54 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking rop rop <rop049@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 15:34 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 08:09 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-07-11 10:30 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-11 14:43 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-07-11 14:49 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2011-07-17 17:14 +0200
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-07-18 19:28 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-18 16:36 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-19 21:33 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-19 20:56 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-20 14:36 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-07-20 18:24 -0400
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-07-21 14:55 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-07-06 22:43 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking Jukka Lahtinen <jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> - 2011-07-07 14:56 +0300
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2011-07-08 21:27 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2011-07-08 21:57 -0700
Re: Arithmetic overflow checking lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-07-09 12:16 -0700
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| From | lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-23 09:37 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <cd319b3f-3a5c-4fa7-92c2-7a956ea2dcaa@j37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #6435 |
On Jul 22, 4:16 pm, Andreas Leitgeb <a...@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
wrote:
> lewbloch <lewbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 22, 10:33 am, Andreas Leitgeb <a...@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at>
> > wrote:
> >> Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote:
> >> [about lack of operator overloading for non-primitive arithmetic types]
> >>> The problem is not just the keystrokes for typing the expressions.
> >>> It is very important to be able to check that a lengthy expression
> >>> in a program is a correct translation of the corresponding expression,
> >>> in mathematical notation, in a textbook or paper.
> >> Lew?
> > Yes?
>
> So here are arguments (admittedly not mine) that include ("... not just...")
> but also go beyond the complaint about the number of keystrokes. I was just
> wondering, if you had any expert-opinion about them, that you'd care to share.
Patricia made excellent points.
I don't think I can improve on them.
--
Lew
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| From | David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-23 11:23 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <bIBWp.70194$_I7.12878@newsfe08.iad> |
| In reply to | #6336 |
On 21/07/2011 8:32 AM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote: > supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations<supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> wrote: >> On 21/07/2011 6:05 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote: >>> ... Why don't you write a proper class for your data type? >> In four words: Lack of operator overloading. >> Math on non-primitive types is *painful* in Java. > > agreeCount = agreeCount.plus(AgreeCount.ONE) > on painfulness of non-primitive math. > or if you think ++ is common enough: agreeCount.increment(); and generally agreeCount.add(someOtherAgreeCount) and if you decide to have your operators return "this" ac0.mul(ac1).plus(ac2)) // ac0 = ac0*ac1+ac2 or ac = (new AgreeCount(ac0)).mul(ac1).plus(ac2) // ac = ac0*ac1+ac2
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| From | supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-23 12:04 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j0eree$uke$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #6451 |
On 23/07/2011 11:23 AM, David Lamb wrote: > On 21/07/2011 8:32 AM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote: >> agreeCount = agreeCount.plus(AgreeCount.ONE) >> on painfulness of non-primitive math. > > or if you think ++ is common enough: > agreeCount.increment(); > and generally > agreeCount.add(someOtherAgreeCount) > and if you decide to have your operators return "this" > ac0.mul(ac1).plus(ac2)) // ac0 = ac0*ac1+ac2 > or > ac = (new AgreeCount(ac0)).mul(ac1).plus(ac2) // ac = ac0*ac1+ac2 Eww. Mutable number classes. I think I'm going to throw up.
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| From | David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-23 14:45 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <tFEWp.68513$5v5.34135@newsfe11.iad> |
| In reply to | #6459 |
On 23/07/2011 12:04 PM, supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations wrote: > On 23/07/2011 11:23 AM, David Lamb wrote: >> On 21/07/2011 8:32 AM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote: >>> agreeCount = agreeCount.plus(AgreeCount.ONE) >>> on painfulness of non-primitive math. >> >> or if you think ++ is common enough: >> agreeCount.increment(); >> and generally >> agreeCount.add(someOtherAgreeCount) >> and if you decide to have your operators return "this" >> ac0.mul(ac1).plus(ac2)) // ac0 = ac0*ac1+ac2 >> or >> ac = (new AgreeCount(ac0)).mul(ac1).plus(ac2) // ac = ac0*ac1+ac2 > > Eww. Mutable number classes. > > I think I'm going to throw up. > It's what happens to ordinary ints in most machine languages. Feel free to define the less-efficient functional versions that always generate new objects. The main point was that the method calls aren't necessarily all that hard to read.
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| From | lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-23 11:51 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4b8422e6-9ad6-493e-b5a5-3c8a772851de@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #6474 |
David Lamb wrote: > supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations wrote: >> David Lamb wrote: ... >>> ac = (new AgreeCount(ac0)).mul(ac1).plus(ac2) // ac = ac0*ac1+ac2 > >> Eww. Mutable number classes. >> >> I think I'm going to throw up. > > It's what happens to ordinary ints in most machine languages. Feel free > to define the less-efficient functional versions that always generate > new objects. The main point was that the method calls aren't necessarily > all that hard to read. The "Eww" poster seems fond of making tabloid statements devoid of engineering reasoning. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with mutable number classes, particular for the use case under discussion for them, as long as they aren't used where immutable number classes would be better. Though the "Eww" poster is free to provide logic and evidence to support a contrary position, if they so desire and have the capability. -- Lew
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| From | supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-23 22:39 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j0g0ku$m4r$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #6475 |
On 23/07/2011 2:51 PM, lewbloch wrote: > David Lamb wrote: >> supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations wrote: >>> Eww. Mutable number classes. >> >> It's what happens to ordinary ints in most machine languages. Feel free >> to define the less-efficient functional versions that always generate >> new objects. The main point was that the method calls aren't necessarily >> all that hard to read. > > The "Eww" poster seems fond of making tabloid statements devoid of > engineering reasoning. Wrong. Ordinary ints aren't (in Java, at least, with no "int *" type) subject to aliasing and other problems that a mutable Integer-analogue would be. > There's nothing intrinsically wrong with mutable number classes, > particular for the use case under discussion for them, as long as they > aren't used where immutable number classes would be better. See above. > Though the "Eww" poster is free to provide logic and evidence to > support a contrary position, if they so desire and have the > capability. See above.
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| From | Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-25 10:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <j0k8lg$1pl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #6494 |
On 7/23/2011 7:39 PM, supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations wrote: > On 23/07/2011 2:51 PM, lewbloch wrote: >> David Lamb wrote: >>> supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations >>> wrote: >>>> Eww. Mutable number classes. >>> >>> It's what happens to ordinary ints in most machine languages. Feel free >>> to define the less-efficient functional versions that always generate >>> new objects. The main point was that the method calls aren't necessarily >>> all that hard to read. >> >> The "Eww" poster seems fond of making tabloid statements devoid of >> engineering reasoning. > > Wrong. > > Ordinary ints aren't (in Java, at least, with no "int *" type) subject > to aliasing and other problems that a mutable Integer-analogue would be. Then I suppose you'd have no objection to making the Matrix class immutable and implicitly copying itself every time you do an operation. I really appreciate that when using Householders to find eigenvalues in my small 10Kx10K matrix. -- Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
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| From | supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations <supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-25 13:29 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j0k96i$ss8$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #6539 |
On 25/07/2011 1:20 PM, Joshua Cranmer wrote: > On 7/23/2011 7:39 PM, > supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations > wrote: >> Wrong. >> >> Ordinary ints aren't (in Java, at least, with no "int *" type) subject >> to aliasing and other problems that a mutable Integer-analogue would be. > > Then I suppose you'd have no objection to making the Matrix class > immutable and implicitly copying itself every time you do an operation. > I really appreciate that when using Householders to find eigenvalues in > my small 10Kx10K matrix. We were talking about numbers, not matrices. For something like matrices, I'd consider it "good enough" to have a mutable and an immutable version, with mutable ones used inside of methods as temporaries and the immutable type used in argument and return types. (Obviously each would have a constructor that accepted the other type.)
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| From | David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-25 13:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <GPhXp.70433$5v5.13084@newsfe11.iad> |
| In reply to | #6541 |
On 25/07/2011 1:29 PM, supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations wrote: > For something like matrices, I'd consider it "good enough" to have a > mutable and an immutable version, with mutable ones used inside of > methods as temporaries and the immutable type used in argument and > return types. I'd be reasonably happy with that, too.
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| From | lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-23 09:39 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d80df969-4201-416b-8f14-256708d1584b@r28g2000prb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #6451 |
On Jul 23, 8:23 am, David Lamb <dal...@cs.queensu.ca> wrote: > On 21/07/2011 8:32 AM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote: > > > supercalifragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantations<super califragilisticexpialadiamaticonormalizeringelimatisticantati...@averylongandannoyingdomainname.com> wrote: > >> On 21/07/2011 6:05 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote: > >>> ... Why don't you write a proper class for your data type? > >> In four words: Lack of operator overloading. > >> Math on non-primitive types is *painful* in Java. > > > agreeCount = agreeCount.plus(AgreeCount.ONE) > > on painfulness of non-primitive math. > > or if you think ++ is common enough: > agreeCount.increment(); > and generally > agreeCount.add(someOtherAgreeCount) > and if you decide to have your operators return "this" > ac0.mul(ac1).plus(ac2)) // ac0 = ac0*ac1+ac2 > or > ac = (new AgreeCount(ac0)).mul(ac1).plus(ac2) // ac = ac0*ac1+ac2 While not as compact as operator overloading, this technique provides a way to ameliorate the matching problem to which Patricia alluded, at least partially, within the current capabilities of Java. We also must consider Patricia's other sage advice to consider other languages for problem domains for which Java is not ideal. -- Lew
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| From | Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-23 21:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnj2me4d.6gl.avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #6465 |
lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> wrote: > While not as compact as operator overloading, this technique provides > a way to ameliorate the matching problem to which Patricia alluded, at > least partially, within the current capabilities of Java. a.plus(b).mul(c) (let's assume them all to be non-mutating methods) might bear some surprises, but geniuses like Lew won't fall for it, and others aren't supposed to do professional programming in Java, anyway ;-) > We also must consider Patricia's other sage advice to consider other > languages for problem domains for which Java is not ideal. I followed that advice long before it was made. I used Tcl (8.5) for my large-integer tasks.
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| From | Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-23 21:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnj2mf0e.6gl.avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #6481 |
Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: > lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> wrote: >> While not as compact as operator overloading, this technique provides >> a way to ameliorate the matching problem to which Patricia alluded, at >> least partially, within the current capabilities of Java. > > a.plus(b).mul(c) (let's assume them all to be non-mutating methods) PS: yes, it's trivial to correct it to a.plus(b.mul(c)) but the point is, that with all the parens for the method arguments, such errors happen more likely than with the standard infix math operators and their standard (mathematics-inspired) precedence rules. > might bear some surprises, but geniuses like Lew won't fall for it, > and others aren't supposed to do professional programming in Java, > anyway ;-) > >> We also must consider Patricia's other sage advice to consider other >> languages for problem domains for which Java is not ideal. > > I followed that advice long before it was made. I used Tcl (8.5) for > my large-integer tasks. >
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-21 16:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <4e2892a6$0$309$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #6331 |
On 7/21/2011 6:05 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote: > On 11-07-20 11:09 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 7/16/2011 12:29 AM, MikeP wrote: >>> Patricia Shanahan wrote: >>>> and then complain when there is a >>>> mismatch between that language's features and their current >>>> requirements. >>> >>> In another post, I said that I think that today (like in right now) the >>> awareness of the overflow issue (language support) has achieved critical >>> mass. Combine that with the alternatives that are available and more yet >>> to come, a language cannot afford to go the path of, say, C anymore for >>> it will lose relevance much more quickly. It's not complaining. It's >>> customer feedback (companies BEG their customers for such!). Companies >>> that don't recognize their customers needs and change with the times, go >>> out of business. Java is not C and can't afford to stagnate like C did >>> (OK, C++ gave it a "reconditioning"), or it won't last. >> >> It seems highly unlikely that the lack of overflow detection >> will have any impact on the usage of Java. >> >> The typical business app does not care. > I agree, with caveats. The larger issue is the proper treatment of > numerical quantities in business applications. Leaving aside currency, > which there is _some_ awareness of in terms of appropriate things to do, > the expression of other numerical quantities in Java is typified by the > use of unconstrained primitives, with haphazard and inconsistent bounds > checking scattered over the code. Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't a > better approach to a numerical data type be to write its own class, > which is responsible for its own invariants (*) (**)? Hang the minor to > moderate performance implications: what's more important, correct code > or fast code? > > My questions to a Java programmer who wants (or thinks they want) > overflow detection would include: are you using the correct primitive > type (or wrapper for a primitive)? Do you even know the design ranges > for your quantity? Why are you wanting to rely on overflow detection to > save your program when 99 percent of the possible legal values for your > chosen data type are also wrong for the design problem, and you're > obviously not concerned about that at all? Why don't you write a proper > class for your data type? PEAA recommends a money class. Arne
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-20 22:12 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <4e278af2$0$309$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #6219 |
On 7/16/2011 12:29 AM, MikeP wrote: > C# will fit in a lot of places where Java does (or so I assume given what > I know about them, as I'm don't use either language other than for > evaluation and case study). Pushing away programmers to other languages > instead of evolving the language according to the expectations (i.e., > what programmers have come to expect to be standard feature in a given > class of language) is surely a path to obsolescence. C# is now 9 years old and Java has not disappeared - it has not even shrunk in usage. C# seems to be taking most of its users from C++ and VB*. Arne
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| From | Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-21 06:41 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <lvSVp.12139$kI4.11868@newsfe02.iad> |
| In reply to | #6207 |
On 11-07-15 11:00 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: > On 7/14/2011 10:14 PM, MikeP wrote: >> Patricia Shanahan wrote: >>> On 7/6/2011 8:35 AM, rop rop wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> If I want to have arithmetic-overflow checking in all parts of an >>>> application, >>>> what is the most practical, simple, efficient way to achieve this? >>> >>> Write the application in Ada. >>> >>> Patricia >> >> But C# is very Java-like and has "checked" and also the compiler-level >> equivalent, so C# would be the better alternative. (And yes, I do know >> you were just kidding about Ada). >> >> > > No, I was not really joking, though I did not attempt to find all the > languages that would meet the stated requirement. > > I'm very strongly of the opinion different languages should provide > different features, making different trade-offs, and programmers should > pick the language for a job based on its requirements and those features. > > The alternative a lot of programmers follow seems to be to pick one > language, ignore all the others, and then complain when there is a > mismatch between that language's features and their current requirements. > > I have no problem with pushing minor changes and additional features > within the general framework of a language, but if the basic framework > is not a good match for a job, the solution is to pick a language that > is more suitable. > > Patricia I agree 100 percent. I'll add this observation: this state of affairs is largely a result of the mediocrity of most programmers. The pressure to conform to a very few mainstream languages - and there is real pressure to this effect, unless you are dabbling, or are in some odd niche - may come from managers, from business, from customers, or from developers themselves - ultimately stems from this pervasive mediocrity. And this state of affairs will not change so long as software development remains unprofessional. How many languages should be in a programmer's toolkit? Well, at least half a dozen. Preferably a dozen. These would be languages that cover the entire spectrum, and that the programmer is at least competent in. To add insult to injury you don't even often see most mainstream programmers taking advantage of the realistic constrained possibilities offered by real-world working environments. For example, developers who usually will find themselves working with .NET on the CLR, or Java SE/EE on the JVM. The C# programmers don't often consider that maybe judicious interop with some F# code will be a better solution, or that they could contemplate IronRuby on the DLR, and you don't often see enterprise Java programmers (or their bosses) willing to think of using some Scala or Clojure or Groovy. And the practise of taking advantage of one's larger platform, and writing shell or Powershell scripts (or Python or whatever programs) to handle other tasks connected with a larger project in Java, is both frowned upon and rare. The blanket excuse used to justify all this is standardization of skillsets. Although candid hirers and managers will tell you that this is mandated by widespread mediocrity. They acknowledge that a very good programmer does do better if they can choose their tools, but they are worried about the ability of 90 percent of the developers out there to maintain and extend the code that the good programmers write. This is the real world, and it'll take a long time to change it. AHS
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-21 16:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <4e288e2c$0$316$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #6330 |
On 7/21/2011 5:41 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote: > On 11-07-15 11:00 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: >> On 7/14/2011 10:14 PM, MikeP wrote: >>> Patricia Shanahan wrote: >>>> On 7/6/2011 8:35 AM, rop rop wrote: >>>>> If I want to have arithmetic-overflow checking in all parts of an >>>>> application, >>>>> what is the most practical, simple, efficient way to achieve this? >>>> >>>> Write the application in Ada. >>>> >>>> Patricia >>> >>> But C# is very Java-like and has "checked" and also the compiler-level >>> equivalent, so C# would be the better alternative. (And yes, I do know >>> you were just kidding about Ada). >> >> No, I was not really joking, though I did not attempt to find all the >> languages that would meet the stated requirement. >> >> I'm very strongly of the opinion different languages should provide >> different features, making different trade-offs, and programmers should >> pick the language for a job based on its requirements and those features. >> >> The alternative a lot of programmers follow seems to be to pick one >> language, ignore all the others, and then complain when there is a >> mismatch between that language's features and their current requirements. >> >> I have no problem with pushing minor changes and additional features >> within the general framework of a language, but if the basic framework >> is not a good match for a job, the solution is to pick a language that >> is more suitable. > > I agree 100 percent. > > I'll add this observation: this state of affairs is largely a result of > the mediocrity of most programmers. The pressure to conform to a very > few mainstream languages - and there is real pressure to this effect, > unless you are dabbling, or are in some odd niche - may come from > managers, from business, from customers, or from developers themselves - > ultimately stems from this pervasive mediocrity. And this state of > affairs will not change so long as software development remains > unprofessional. > > How many languages should be in a programmer's toolkit? Well, at least > half a dozen. Preferably a dozen. These would be languages that cover > the entire spectrum, and that the programmer is at least competent in. > > To add insult to injury you don't even often see most mainstream > programmers taking advantage of the realistic constrained possibilities > offered by real-world working environments. For example, developers who > usually will find themselves working with .NET on the CLR, or Java SE/EE > on the JVM. The C# programmers don't often consider that maybe judicious > interop with some F# code will be a better solution, or that they could > contemplate IronRuby on the DLR, and you don't often see enterprise Java > programmers (or their bosses) willing to think of using some Scala or > Clojure or Groovy. And the practise of taking advantage of one's larger > platform, and writing shell or Powershell scripts (or Python or whatever > programs) to handle other tasks connected with a larger project in Java, > is both frowned upon and rare. > > The blanket excuse used to justify all this is standardization of > skillsets. Although candid hirers and managers will tell you that this > is mandated by widespread mediocrity. They acknowledge that a very good > programmer does do better if they can choose their tools, but they are > worried about the ability of 90 percent of the developers out there to > maintain and extend the code that the good programmers write. > > This is the real world, and it'll take a long time to change it. You can hardly blame the managers from making decisions on tools based on what their developers actually know instead of what they should know. mediocre developers => mediocre code But if we say that there are 10 million developers of which 2 million is good, 6 million is mediocre and 2 million is hopeless, then just getting the majority to e good will require 3 million good developers. They will not show up tomorrow by magic. Arne
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| From | Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 22:28 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.287ee3d2698d83599896a9@202.177.16.121> |
| In reply to | #5905 |
In article <015aeb15-57db-48ab-9cd4-
77f8448b632f@w24g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>, rop049@gmail.com says...
>
> Hi,
>
> If I want to have arithmetic-overflow checking in all parts of an
> application,
> what is the most practical, simple, efficient way to achieve this?
> Id like to clutter the code as little a possible...
> Is there any way to instruct the JVM to include it?
Not automagically, at least if you want to avoid building a sourcecode-
preprocessor or tool that instruments your bytecode at class loading
time.
You could use your very own math-methods and discourage the use of the
operators "+","-" throughout your code by convention.
public final class OverflowUtil{
public static void passIntRangeCheck(final long x){
if( x > Integer.MAX_VALUE)
throw new ArithemticException("int overflow");
if if( x < Integer.MIN_VALUE)
throw new ArithemticException("int underflow");
}
public static void passLongRangeCheck(final BigInteger x){
if( x.compareTo(BigInteger.valueOf(Long.MAX_VALUE)) > 0)
throw new ArithemticException("long overflow");
if( x.compareTo(BigInteger.valueOf(Long.MIN_VALUE)) < 0)
throw new ArithemticException("long underflow");
}
//... same for byte and short
}
import static OverflowUtil.*;
public class OverFlowSafe{
static int add(final int a, final int b){
final long x = a+b;
passIntRangeCheck(x);
return (int)x;
}
static long add(final long a, final long b){
final long x = BigInteger.valueOf(a).add(BigInteger.valueOf(b);
passLongRangeCheck(x);
return x.longValue();
}
//.... other operations..
}
To be used like:
void foo(){
final int x = Integer.MAX_VALUE;
final int y = 1L;
final int sum = OverflowSafe.add(x,y);
System.out.println(sum);
}
The code not tested and hacked in a hurry, varargs would probably be
nicer. The upside to any instrumentation or preprocessing tool is that
you can distinguish safe from unsafe code with a blink of an eye.
Kind regards,
Wanja
--
..Alesi's problem was that the back of the car was jumping up and down
dangerously - and I can assure you from having been teammate to
Jean Alesi and knowing what kind of cars that he can pull up with,
when Jean Alesi says that a car is dangerous - it is. [Jonathan Palmer]
--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---
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| From | Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 22:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.287ee43ed98fe259896aa@202.177.16.121> |
| In reply to | #5921 |
In article <MPG.287ee3d2698d83599896a9@202.177.16.121>, brixomatic@yahoo.com says... > You could use your very own math-methods and discourage the use of the > operators "+","-" throughout your code by convention. ..and the others of course. Kind regards, Wanja -- ..Alesi's problem was that the back of the car was jumping up and down dangerously - and I can assure you from having been teammate to Jean Alesi and knowing what kind of cars that he can pull up with, when Jean Alesi says that a car is dangerous - it is. [Jonathan Palmer] --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---
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| From | Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-06 22:32 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.DEB.2.00.1107062203220.27388@urchin.earth.li> |
| In reply to | #5921 |
On Wed, 6 Jul 2011, Wanja Gayk wrote: > In article <015aeb15-57db-48ab-9cd4- > 77f8448b632f@w24g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>, rop049@gmail.com says... > >> If I want to have arithmetic-overflow checking in all parts of an >> application, what is the most practical, simple, efficient way to >> achieve this? Id like to clutter the code as little a possible... Is >> there any way to instruct the JVM to include it? > > Not automagically, at least if you want to avoid building a sourcecode- > preprocessor or tool that instruments your bytecode at class loading > time. Actually, a load-time bytecode manipulator might be the most practical way to do this. Modding the JVM is a non-starter for a few reasons, using an alternative language is not even a solution, using a library or a set of functions by convention is error-prone, but a bytecode weaver (using the java.lang.instrument API, to be clear) could do the job, and would be a fairly focused way of doing it - after the fairly small amount of boilerplate, it would just be a matter of decoding all targeted bytecode and rewriting it to check for overflow. I didn't say it would be easy, just focused. tom -- History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. -- Thomas Jefferson
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| From | rop rop <rop049@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-07 00:30 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <343576af-d714-462c-b96f-688bc6dfb0e2@e21g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #5925 |
On Jul 6, 11:32 pm, Tom Anderson <t...@urchin.earth.li> wrote: > Modding the JVM is a non-starter for a few reasons... Hi Tom, Thanks for input. Could you just elaborate on this, please... what is the main-problem with actually patching the JVM? Why is it so hard? Without having looked into the source-code, this seems like the most straight-forward and robust way to do it... Is the code so hard to penetrate or what?
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