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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #4364 > unrolled thread

tools for programming applets

Started byhoros22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com>
First post2011-05-20 14:43 -0700
Last post2011-05-26 16:37 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 90 — 19 participants

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Contents

  tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-20 14:43 -0700
    Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-21 09:57 +1200
      Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 18:27 -0400
      Re: tools for programming applets "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2011-05-21 08:56 +0800
      Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-20 21:28 -0400
        Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 11:11 +1200
      Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-20 18:31 -0700
      Re: tools for programming applets "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2011-05-21 12:15 -0700
        Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 11:15 +1200
        Re: tools for programming applets Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-22 14:35 +0100
          Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-22 08:12 -0700
            Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:26 +1200
              Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 20:59 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 22:01 -0400
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 14:17 +1200
                  Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 23:34 -0400
                    Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 18:44 +1200
                      Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 09:13 -0400
                      Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-23 10:37 -0400
                        Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-24 20:15 +1200
                          Re: tools for programming applets Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-05-24 07:04 -0300
                            Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:14 +1200
                          Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-24 08:10 -0400
                  Re: tools for programming applets Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-05-24 16:09 +0300
                    Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-26 11:35 +1200
                      Re: tools for programming applets Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-05-27 00:13 +0300
                        Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 18:50 +1200
                          Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-27 09:55 -0400
                            Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-27 11:31 -0400
                              Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-28 14:35 +1200
                                Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-28 12:17 -0700
                                  Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-30 03:26 -0700
                                Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-03 08:19 -0400
    Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 18:29 -0400
    Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-20 16:11 -0700
      Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 20:12 -0400
        Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-21 09:10 -0700
          Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-21 12:55 -0400
            Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:18 -0700
              Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:37 -0400
              Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 05:58 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:34 +1200
                  Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 18:11 -0700
                    Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 22:06 -0400
                      Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 20:26 -0700
                  Re: tools for programming applets "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-22 21:31 -0400
                    Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 14:14 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:31 -0700
                  Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 12:08 -0400
                    Re: tools for programming applets Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-19 14:43 +0200
                  Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:13 +1200
              Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 17:39 -0400
          Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 15:38 +1200
            Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:24 -0700
              Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:41 -0400
              Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 05:43 -0700
                Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:53 -0400
                  Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 06:15 -0700
                    Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:38 -0700
                      Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 12:17 -0400
                        Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 05:22 -0700
                          Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-24 08:38 -0400
                            Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 06:33 -0700
                              Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-25 12:06 +1200
                                Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 05:54 -0700
                                  Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 00:57 +1200
                                    Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-26 09:04 -0400
                                      Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 06:12 -0700
                                        Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-26 09:28 -0400
                                        Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-26 14:47 -0700
                                  Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-26 13:51 +0000
                                    Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 07:38 -0700
                                      Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-26 15:23 +0000
                                      Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:10 +1200
                                    Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:11 +1200
                                      Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-27 14:47 +0000
                            Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-24 10:07 -0700
                      Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-23 11:27 -0700
              Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:23 +1200
                Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:50 -0700
                  Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-24 14:45 +1200
                  Re: tools for programming applets Andrew Thompson <andrewthommo@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 03:46 -0700
                    Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:12 +1200
    Re: tools for programming applets Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-21 09:31 -0700
    Re: tools for programming applets "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2011-05-22 08:05 +0800
      Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:30 -0700
        Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 06:05 -0700
    Re: tools for programming applets Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-05-24 12:30 +0200
      Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-26 14:29 -0400
    Re: tools for programming applets Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-26 16:37 +0000

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#4364 — tools for programming applets

Fromhoros22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com>
Date2011-05-20 14:43 -0700
Subjecttools for programming applets
Message-ID<028d2009-98b7-43a3-b02d-83eaa89db79e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com>
All,

I was looking to do some quick java development of applets. Here's my
situation:

1. I have a static server (ie: that I cannot touch) which serves my
client data (and applets).
2. a bare-bones client programming setup (vim and java compiler)

What I was hoping to do, therefore, is hijack the applets that are
coming from the server, and replace them with my own, compiled ones,
and hook the browser in such a way that when the applet is asked for,
my applet fires instead (hopefully in debugging mode) using the data from the server as input.

Surely this is a common enough situation that there are standard
firefox plugins to do this..

Or is it? In any case any, help on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks much,

Ed

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#4366

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand>
Date2011-05-21 09:57 +1200
Message-ID<ir6o3o$uae$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
In reply to#4364
In message
<028d2009-98b7-43a3-b02d-83eaa89db79e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com>, 
horos22 wrote:

> I was looking to do some quick java development of applets.

Nobody uses applets any more. Go learn about DHTML, AJAX and HTML5.

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#4368

FromLew <noone@lewscanon.com>
Date2011-05-20 18:27 -0400
Message-ID<ir6psp$q4t$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#4366
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> horos22 wrote:
>> I was looking to do some quick java development of applets.

> Nobody uses applets any more. Go learn about DHTML, AJAX and HTML5.

That doesn't answer his question, Lawrence, it doesn't help him, and it isn't 
true anyway.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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#4373

From"Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>
Date2011-05-21 08:56 +0800
Message-ID<ir72j9$8nj$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#4366
"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> wrote in message 
news:ir6o3o$uae$2@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> In message
> <028d2009-98b7-43a3-b02d-83eaa89db79e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com>,
> horos22 wrote:
>
>> I was looking to do some quick java development of applets.
>
> Nobody uses applets any more. Go learn about DHTML, AJAX and HTML5.

Yes, learn about the piece of shit that is "WebSockets" and how they're 
still disabled due to security (let alone prohibitively reduced 
functionality) flaws! Marvel at what "WorkerThreads" attempt to accomplish! 
Look on in awe at Comet and long-polling and the amount of time/money 
invested in trying to replicate what Applets have offered the Web-Developer 
for over a decade :-(

Yes my little Google/Microsoft slaves, "all pluggins are bad". They've 
kiiled Java and are now doing their best to kill Flash. Just keep settling 
for second rate shite just as long as there's no pluggin required. (Having 
said that, with Oracle's ownership of Java and having seen what Ellison just 
did to HP/Itanium, there are certainly no benign let alone benevolent forces 
pulling the levers.)

Regards Richard Maher 

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#4376

FromJoshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid>
Date2011-05-20 21:28 -0400
Message-ID<ir74fv$hq3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#4366
On 05/20/2011 05:57 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message
> <028d2009-98b7-43a3-b02d-83eaa89db79e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com>,
> horos22 wrote:
>
>> I was looking to do some quick java development of applets.
>
> Nobody uses applets any more. Go learn about DHTML, AJAX and HTML5.

No one uses DHTML anymore. At least not that term.

And yes, people still use Java applets. I've found Java support for 
toolkits, e.g., easier to use than the JS ones I've poked at.

-- 
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not 
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth

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#4393

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand>
Date2011-05-22 11:11 +1200
Message-ID<ir9gqo$i2k$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
In reply to#4376
In message <ir74fv$hq3$1@dont-email.me>, Joshua Cranmer wrote:

> On 05/20/2011 05:57 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message
>> <028d2009-98b7-43a3-
b02d-83eaa89db79e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com>,
>> horos22 wrote:
>>
>>> I was looking to do some quick java development of applets.
>>
>> Nobody uses applets any more. Go learn about DHTML, AJAX and HTML5.
> 
> No one uses DHTML anymore. At least not that term.

I guess they just say “JavaScript”.

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#4377

Frommarkspace <-@.>
Date2011-05-20 18:31 -0700
Message-ID<ir74lr$idk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#4366
On 5/20/2011 2:57 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message
> <028d2009-98b7-43a3-b02d-83eaa89db79e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com>,
> horos22 wrote:
>
>> I was looking to do some quick java development of applets.
>
> Nobody uses applets any more. Go learn about DHTML, AJAX and HTML5.


<http://www.minecraft.net/play.jsp>

"This game requires Java."

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#4392

From"Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org>
Date2011-05-21 12:15 -0700
Message-ID<ir931a$sod$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#4366
On 5/20/2011 2:57 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message
> <028d2009-98b7-43a3-b02d-83eaa89db79e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com>,
> horos22 wrote:
>
>> I was looking to do some quick java development of applets.
>

> Nobody uses applets any more. Go learn about DHTML, AJAX and HTML5.

I find the above really strange, since when I look around on the net,
I see nothing even close to what can be done today using Java applets.

And Java is open source now also. isn't?

If you can show me just ONE web site, with simulations and
animation written in Javascript and html5, that are as good and
advanced as say the following well known Java applets sites, then
I will believe you:

http://www.falstad.com/mathphysics.html
http://www.myphysicslab.com/index.html
http://www.ph.biu.ac.il/~rapaport/java-apps/

And thousands more.

All what I have seen so far for demos written in Javascript and HTML5
are child like little toy applications compared to what can be done with
Java applets, today.

And Java applets now run well, not like many years ago, when, yes, they
did have performance issues, but it seems to me most of this is fixed now,
I hardly have a problem now running a Java applet these days.

Sometimes I get missing class error while loading, but that seems
to be a packaging/configuration error from the author, not Java itself.

Why the industry have to reinvent the wheel again every few years,
I never know. Why not improve what works today to make it better?

--Nasser

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#4394

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand>
Date2011-05-22 11:15 +1200
Message-ID<ir9h1l$i2k$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
In reply to#4392
In message <ir931a$sod$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Nasser M. Abbasi wrote:

> On 5/20/2011 2:57 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message
>> <028d2009-98b7-43a3-
b02d-83eaa89db79e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com>,
>> horos22 wrote:
>>
>>> I was looking to do some quick java development of applets.
>>
>> Nobody uses applets any more. Go learn about DHTML, AJAX and HTML5.
> 
> I find the above really strange, since when I look around on the net,
> I see nothing even close to what can be done today using Java applets.

Looked at Google Maps? And Google Docs? And whatever the Microsoft 
equivalent is—365 somethingorother?

> And Java is open source now also. isn't?

Not quite. And with Oracle busily destroying every single open-source 
project they bought with Sun...

> If you can show me just ONE web site, with simulations and
> animation written in Javascript and html5, that are as good and
> advanced as say the following well known Java applets sites, then
> I will believe you:
> 
> http://www.falstad.com/mathphysics.html
> http://www.myphysicslab.com/index.html
> http://www.ph.biu.ac.il/~rapaport/java-apps/

Real-world businesses are running mission-critical systems in the cloud. And 
the cloud isn’t Java applets.

> Why the industry have to reinvent the wheel again every few years,
> I never know.

Well, if Sun hadn’t had such a precious attitude toward Java...

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#4419

FromTom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li>
Date2011-05-22 14:35 +0100
Message-ID<alpine.DEB.2.00.1105221433430.31828@urchin.earth.li>
In reply to#4392
On Sat, 21 May 2011, Nasser M. Abbasi wrote:

> All what I have seen so far for demos written in Javascript and HTML5 
> are child like little toy applications compared to what can be done with 
> Java applets, today.

http://bellard.org/jslinux/

tom

-- 
It's not even just bad. It's Waterworld bad, it's Iraq-occupation bad,
it's '62 Mets bad. -- robotslave

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#4420

FromSteve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
Date2011-05-22 08:12 -0700
Message-ID<MPG.2842c7a1112317ee98974f@news.justthe.net>
In reply to#4419
In article <alpine.DEB.2.00.1105221433430.31828@urchin.earth.li>, Tom 
Anderson says...
> 
> On Sat, 21 May 2011, Nasser M. Abbasi wrote:
> 
> > All what I have seen so far for demos written in Javascript and HTML5 
> > are child like little toy applications compared to what can be done with 
> > Java applets, today.
> 
> http://bellard.org/jslinux/
> 
> tom

Yeah, you can now run Linux in a Javascript interpreter, but that is an 
extremely recent development made possible by the turbo-charged 
Javascript interpreters now available in the modern browsers. And 
honestly, I agree that Java applets can do *a lot* more.

-- 
Steve Sobol - Programming/WebDev/IT Support
sjsobol@JustThe.net

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#4425

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand>
Date2011-05-23 12:26 +1200
Message-ID<irc9ki$58p$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
In reply to#4420
In message <MPG.2842c7a1112317ee98974f@news.justthe.net>, Steve Sobol wrote:

> In article <alpine.DEB.2.00.1105221433430.31828@urchin.earth.li>, Tom
> Anderson says...
>> 
>> On Sat, 21 May 2011, Nasser M. Abbasi wrote:
>> 
>> > All what I have seen so far for demos written in Javascript and HTML5
>> > are child like little toy applications compared to what can be done
>> > with Java applets, today.
>> 
>> http://bellard.org/jslinux/
>> 
>> tom
> 
> Yeah, you can now run Linux in a Javascript interpreter, but that is an
> extremely recent development made possible by the turbo-charged
> Javascript interpreters now available in the modern browsers.

Ah, so you noticed the “modern” part of all this new-fangled technology.

> And honestly, I agree that Java applets can do *a lot* more.

Soon as you figure out how to apply the word “modern” to Java, I guess...

Why do you think JavaScript/DHTML/AJAX has grown by leaps and bounds, while 
Java, which in some ways was a pioneer of the dynamic Web, has stagnated?

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#4429

FromJoshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid>
Date2011-05-22 20:59 -0400
Message-ID<ircbic$g3e$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#4425
On 05/22/2011 08:26 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> Why do you think JavaScript/DHTML/AJAX has grown by leaps and bounds, while
> Java, which in some ways was a pioneer of the dynamic Web, has stagnated?

Why do you insist on bashing Java in a Java newsgroup?

To be fair, none of the technologies you mention has really made "leaps 
and bounds". AJAX, or rather XHR (the underlying technology), itself was 
specified several years back and hasn't been modified (to my knowledge) 
since the introduction of the cross-origin specifications, which is more 
or less incidental to the actual spec. JavaScript itself has had no more 
fundamental changes than Java has had. As far as I can see, the only 
truly new things (i.e., not present in any implementation for some time) 
were the introduction of functional methods to Array, i.e., arr.forEach, 
arr.filter, etc.

The only technologies that have really changed are the DOM, in 
particular the introduction of <canvas>, web storage, and ... I think 
that's about the only major interoperable new thing. SVG doesn't count 
since it's been around for eons, nor does <video> since it's actually 
worthless as no single format will be accepted by >75% of the browser 
market. I'll also leave out CSS changes, since most of those are pretty 
much either pie-in-the-sky experiments or attempting to sanely specify 
what browsers already do.

Now, let me end by pointing out that Java has been able to do all of 
these things for over a decade. That's right, all of these growing "by 
leaps and bounds" is merely trying to get CSS/DOM/HTML up to the same 
level of support that Java has already had since version 1.0. And there 
are still things that Java can do that this approach is having problems 
with--case in point number 1, designing traditional UI (i.e., flexing 
models for layout). Java doesn't need to grow by leaps and bounds 
because it already is a mature, working facility ... unlike the current 
Web 2.0/3.0 stuff.

-- 
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not 
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth

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#4433

FromLew <noone@lewscanon.com>
Date2011-05-22 22:01 -0400
Message-ID<ircf67$f9f$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#4429
On 05/22/2011 08:59 PM, Joshua Cranmer wrote:
> On 05/22/2011 08:26 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> Why do you think JavaScript/DHTML/AJAX has grown by leaps and bounds, while
>> Java, which in some ways was a pioneer of the dynamic Web, has stagnated?
>
> Why do you insist on bashing Java in a Java newsgroup?
>
> To be fair, none of the technologies you mention has really made "leaps and
> bounds". AJAX, or rather XHR (the underlying technology), itself was specified
> several years back and hasn't been modified (to my knowledge) since the
> introduction of the cross-origin specifications, which is more or less
> incidental to the actual spec. JavaScript itself has had no more fundamental
> changes than Java has had. As far as I can see, the only truly new things
> (i.e., not present in any implementation for some time) were the introduction
> of functional methods to Array, i.e., arr.forEach, arr.filter, etc.
>
> The only technologies that have really changed are the DOM, in particular the
> introduction of <canvas>, web storage, and ... I think that's about the only
> major interoperable new thing. SVG doesn't count since it's been around for
> eons, nor does <video> since it's actually worthless as no single format will
> be accepted by >75% of the browser market. I'll also leave out CSS changes,
> since most of those are pretty much either pie-in-the-sky experiments or
> attempting to sanely specify what browsers already do.
>
> Now, let me end by pointing out that Java has been able to do all of these
> things for over a decade. That's right, all of these growing "by leaps and
> bounds" is merely trying to get CSS/DOM/HTML up to the same level of support
> that Java has already had since version 1.0. And there are still things that
> Java can do that this approach is having problems with--case in point number
> 1, designing traditional UI (i.e., flexing models for layout). Java doesn't
> need to grow by leaps and bounds because it already is a mature, working
> facility ... unlike the current Web 2.0/3.0 stuff.

To use Lawrence's logic, we should hire him instead of you because your 
knowledge is mature and stable, and not growing as quickly as his presumably 
is at his stage of development as a programmer.  Or, alternatively, we should 
elect an infant as the nation's leader because their brain is growing so much 
faster than a mature adult's.

This leaving out the fallacy that Java has stagnated, a blazingly false 
assertion that Lawrence made with, as is usual for Lawrence, absolutely zero 
evidence cited (as if there were any) or reasoning proffered.

So, Lawrence, care to provide any actual factual or evidentiary basis for your 
apparent attempt to foment a flame war, Lawrence?  We're waiting breathlessly, 
Lawrence.

Aaaany time now, Lawrence.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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#4436

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand>
Date2011-05-23 14:17 +1200
Message-ID<ircg47$8k8$6@lust.ihug.co.nz>
In reply to#4429
In message <ircbic$g3e$1@dont-email.me>, Joshua Cranmer wrote:

> On 05/22/2011 08:26 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Why do you think JavaScript/DHTML/AJAX has grown by leaps and bounds,
>> while Java, which in some ways was a pioneer of the dynamic Web, has
>> stagnated?
> 
> Why do you insist on bashing Java in a Java newsgroup?

I don’t have to; I just point out the facts, and leave others to get angry 
about them.

> JavaScript itself has had no more fundamental changes than Java has had.
> As far as I can see, the only truly new things (i.e., not present in any
> implementation for some time) were the introduction of functional methods
> to Array, i.e., arr.forEach, arr.filter, etc.

Functions as first-class objects.

> Now, let me end by pointing out that Java has been able to do all of
> these things for over a decade.

And yet nobody was ever able to do them. Where is the Java equivalent of 
jQuery, for example?

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#4439

FromJoshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid>
Date2011-05-22 23:34 -0400
Message-ID<irckka$plt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#4436
On 05/22/2011 10:17 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> JavaScript itself has had no more fundamental changes than Java has had.
>> As far as I can see, the only truly new things (i.e., not present in any
>> implementation for some time) were the introduction of functional methods
>> to Array, i.e., arr.forEach, arr.filter, etc.
>
> Functions as first-class objects.

Nope, that's original in JavaScript. It's as new to JavaScript as 
classes are to Java.

>> Now, let me end by pointing out that Java has been able to do all of
>> these things for over a decade.
>
> And yet nobody was ever able to do them. Where is the Java equivalent of
> jQuery, for example?

How about Swing? Java's graphics APIs are not so shoddy you need a 
massive library just to do anything sane with them ;-)

-- 
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not 
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth

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#4441

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand>
Date2011-05-23 18:44 +1200
Message-ID<ircvp4$hmq$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
In reply to#4439
In message <irckka$plt$1@dont-email.me>, Joshua Cranmer wrote:

> On 05/22/2011 10:17 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>>> JavaScript itself has had no more fundamental changes than Java has had.
>>> As far as I can see, the only truly new things (i.e., not present in any
>>> implementation for some time) were the introduction of functional
>>> methods to Array, i.e., arr.forEach, arr.filter, etc.
>>
>> Functions as first-class objects.
> 
> Nope, that's original in JavaScript.

So are you beginning to understand that it’s not JavaScript playing catch-up 
to Java?

>>> Now, let me end by pointing out that Java has been able to do all of
>>> these things for over a decade.
>>
>> And yet nobody was ever able to do them. Where is the Java equivalent of
>> jQuery, for example?
> 
> How about Swing?

How about it?

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#4448

FromLew <noone@lewscanon.com>
Date2011-05-23 09:13 -0400
Message-ID<irdmhv$hfg$2@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#4441
On 05/23/2011 02:44 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message<irckka$plt$1@dont-email.me>, Joshua Cranmer wrote:
>
>> On 05/22/2011 10:17 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>>> JavaScript itself has had no more fundamental changes than Java has had.
>>>> As far as I can see, the only truly new things (i.e., not present in any
>>>> implementation for some time) were the introduction of functional
>>>> methods to Array, i.e., arr.forEach, arr.filter, etc.
>>>
>>> Functions as first-class objects.
>>
>> Nope, that's original in JavaScript.
>
> So are you beginning to understand that it’s not JavaScript playing catch-up
> to Java?

That's a typical trollish maneuver, Lawrence, shifting to an opposite stance 
when someone refutes your original point.  I guess your original point you 
admit to be wrong, given how quickly you dropped it when challenged, Lawrence.

>>>> Now, let me end by pointing out that Java has been able to do all of
>>>> these things for over a decade.
>>>
>>> And yet nobody was ever able to do them. Where is the Java equivalent of
>>> jQuery, for example?
>>
>> How about Swing?
>
> How about it?

Oh, Lawrence, Lawrence, Lawrence,

How about you drop your intellectually dishonest bullshit?

Lawrence?

I notice you're too frightened to answer me, Lawrence.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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#4452

FromJoshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid>
Date2011-05-23 10:37 -0400
Message-ID<irdrer$dd1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#4441
On 05/23/2011 02:44 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message<irckka$plt$1@dont-email.me>, Joshua Cranmer wrote:
>
>> On 05/22/2011 10:17 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>>> JavaScript itself has had no more fundamental changes than Java has had.
>>>> As far as I can see, the only truly new things (i.e., not present in any
>>>> implementation for some time) were the introduction of functional
>>>> methods to Array, i.e., arr.forEach, arr.filter, etc.
>>>
>>> Functions as first-class objects.
>>
>> Nope, that's original in JavaScript.
>
> So are you beginning to understand that it’s not JavaScript playing catch-up
> to Java?

/me sighs.

1. It's not JavaScript playing catchup. The language itself has had no 
significant change (I'm pretty sure generators are not part of ES5, only 
ES:harmony...).

2. The features of the DOM are adding no functionality that Java itself 
does not have.

3. "Catch-up" does not imply removing features to achieve a convergence 
of languages.

>> How about Swing?
>
> How about it?

That you completely cut off all context of where I explained this. 
Sheesh, you're getting as bad as Mr.... I can't remember the original 
text he wrote, but I'm sure this will convince him to drop by ;-)

-- 
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not 
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth

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#4517

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand>
Date2011-05-24 20:15 +1200
Message-ID<irfpf6$5ih$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
In reply to#4452
In message <irdrer$dd1$1@dont-email.me>, Joshua Cranmer wrote:

> That you completely cut off all context of where I explained this.

*Sigh* I get this crap all the time from the clueless newbies. Let me 
explain to you something about USENET: my postings are to record what I 
said, not what you said. If I quote any part of you said, it is to give some 
context for what I said, nothing more.

Rest assured if I reply to you I did read what you said, whether I quoted it 
or not. If I was ignoring what you said, I wouldn’t even bother replying to 
you.

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