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char to decimal

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  char to decimal Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 01:43 +0100
    Re: char to decimal Knute Johnson <nospam@rabbitbrush.frazmtn.com> - 2011-05-04 17:49 -0700
    Re: char to decimal Ian Shef <invalid@avoiding.spam> - 2011-05-05 01:06 +0000
      Re: char to decimal Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-05 20:03 +1200
        Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-05 07:03 -0400
          Re: char to decimal Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-05 11:18 +0000
            Re: char to decimal Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-05 06:11 -0700
              Re: char to decimal Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-06 01:59 +1200
                Re: char to decimal Mayeul <mayeul.marguet@free.fr> - 2011-05-05 16:53 +0200
                  Re: char to decimal Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-06 11:49 +1200
                    Re: char to decimal Mayeul <mayeul.marguet@free.fr> - 2011-05-06 08:46 +0200
                      Re: char to decimal Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-06 18:43 +1200
                        Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-06 06:52 -0400
                          Re: char to decimal Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-06 11:39 +0000
                Re: char to decimal Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-05 14:13 -0400
                  Re: char to decimal Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-06 11:49 +1200
                    Re: char to decimal Mayeul <mayeul.marguet@free.fr> - 2011-05-06 08:47 +0200
                      Re: char to decimal Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-06 18:43 +1200
                        Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-06 06:54 -0400
                      Re: char to decimal Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-05-06 10:30 +0300
                Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-05 17:05 -0400
              Re: char to decimal Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-05 14:56 +0000
                Re: char to decimal Paul Cager <paul.cager@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-05 11:48 -0700
                  Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-05 17:06 -0400
                  Re: char to decimal Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-05 21:28 +0000
                    Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-05 17:32 -0400
                      Re: char to decimal Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-06 08:31 +0000
            Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-05 17:04 -0400
        boolean to int : was char to decimal Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-06 09:00 -0400
          Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-06 06:54 -0700
          Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-06 07:07 -0700
            Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-06 08:30 -0700
          Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Nigel Wade <nmw-news@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2011-05-06 15:35 +0100
          Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2011-05-06 19:12 +0200
          Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-06 13:26 -0400
            Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-06 21:25 -0400
            Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-06 21:28 -0400
            Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-09 12:51 -0400
              Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-09 23:54 +0000
              Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-09 20:51 -0400
                Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-10 11:20 -0400
                Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-23 07:26 -0400
                  Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-06-23 10:07 -0700
                    Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> - 2011-06-24 09:51 +0100
              Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-10 13:47 +1200
                Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-10 11:02 -0400
                  Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-11 14:05 +1200
                    Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-11 08:11 -0400
    Re: char to decimal Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 02:12 +0100
    Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-04 21:59 -0400
      Re: char to decimal Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 16:14 +0100
        Re: char to decimal markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-05 11:20 -0700
          Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-05 17:10 -0400
            Re: char to decimal Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-05 22:00 +0000
              Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-05 18:20 -0400
            Re: char to decimal Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 10:45 +0100
              Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-06 06:56 -0400
                Re: char to decimal Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-06 11:48 +0000
                  Re: char to decimal Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-06 08:38 -0400
                  Re: char to decimal Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-06 09:47 -0400
                    Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-06 12:02 -0400
                    Re: char to decimal Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2011-05-06 19:15 +0200
                      Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-06 14:01 -0400
                        Re: char to decimal Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2011-05-06 20:07 +0200
                          Re: O/T linguistics (Was: char to decimal) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-06 15:28 -0400
                            Re: O/T linguistics Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2011-05-06 21:44 +0200
                          Re: char to decimal Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-06 23:57 +0000
                  Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-06 12:00 -0400
                Re: char to decimal Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 18:29 +0100
                  Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-06 14:02 -0400
                    Re: char to decimal Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-07 01:09 +0100
                    Re: char to decimal Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-07 00:18 +0000
                      Re: char to decimal Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-06 21:30 -0400
    Re: char to decimal Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-04 22:03 -0700
      Re: char to decimal "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2011-05-05 01:14 -0700
      Re: char to decimal Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 16:15 +0100

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#3920 — Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal

Jeff Higgins wrote:
> 
> Roedy Green sparked my interest in this subject in a recent cljh post.
> My original question was: Will the AGG algo produce a 'nicer' curve
> than Java's FlatteningPathIterator? The answer so far is yes and no.
> 
> My interest has now expanded. Starting here, I've a ways to go.
> <http://www3.villanova.edu/maple/misc/history_of_curvature/index.htm>

Yes, and in terms of computer graphics, now that you've experimented
with Bezier curves you can move on to Bezier splines, then to more
general B-splines. Back when I was in graphics (over twenty years
ago), a popular curve primitive was NURBS - non-uniform rational
B-splines. NURBS let you specify different (hence "non-uniform")
weights for the "knots" (control points), which affects how much they
influence curvature.

Then generalize them to surfaces for some real fun.

-- 
Michael Wojcik
Micro Focus
Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University

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#5572 — Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal

On 05/09/2011 08:51 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>
> Roedy Green sparked my interest in this subject in a recent cljh post.
> My original question was: Will the AGG algo produce a 'nicer' curve
> than Java's FlatteningPathIterator? The answer so far is yes and no.
>
> My interest has now expanded. Starting here, I've a ways to go.
> <http://www3.villanova.edu/maple/misc/history_of_curvature/index.htm>
>
For my own future reference:
<http://home.comcast.net/~k9dci/site/?/page/Piecewise_Polynomial_Interpolation/>
Some help with curves for those of us with severe mathematical disabilities.

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#5589 — Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 07:26:02 -0400, Jeff Higgins
<jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>For my own future reference:
><http://home.comcast.net/~k9dci/site/?/page/Piecewise_Polynomial_Interpolation/>
>Some help with curves for those of us with severe mathematical disabilities.

A few thoughts. I studied various types of interpolation back when I
was a teenager.  I had a friend trying to use a novel device called a
pen plotter.  The goal was to write a demo program that would draw the
pink panther to use for open house at UBC.  Ordinary polynomial
interpolation turned out to be very unstable.  It seemed to be
constantly trying to misinterpret your intent while keeping to the
letter of the specification.

I tried to ask various advanced mathematicians what advice they had,
but since the idea of using equations to draw cartoons was unheard of
they were quite brusque with me. It was just too nutty and frivolous
an idea to consider.

The great Anthony Ralston came to visit (the author of our numerical
analysis textbook).  Without having the proper vocabulary, I tried to
describe the spline curve, or a curve that mimicked a K&E
interpolation snake. He sharply chastised me saying it made no sense
at all to investigate curves that just looked a certain way without
having some mathematical meaning.

I asked Dr. Z. Melzak. He suggested Chebychev polynomials might be
better behaved.  These also had the nice properly they were easier to
compute on the low res floating point of the era.

Too bad that I did not get a chance to ask Dr. John Warnock, who was
in Vancouver at the time, perhaps thinking about adding spline curves
and other interpolation to his future PostScript.

I wrote Walt Disney, explaining a scheme I had for interpolating (in
time) hand drawn cartoons (which would be called today "morphing"). I
figured it would lower costs and bring it a new golden era of
cartoons. They wrote back saying they were not interested.

Since that time there has an explosion in mathematical drawing, so I
would imagine there are now some "nice" algorithms, perhaps that
behave like the K&E dark green snake (do they still make those?)
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
One of the great annoyances in programming derives from the irregularity
of English spelling especially when you have international teams.  
I want to find a method or variable, but I don't know precisely
how its is spelled or worded. English is only approximately phonetic.  
Letters are randomly doubled.  The dictionary often lists variant spellings.
British, Canadian and American spellings differ.I would like to see an 
experiment where variable names were spelled in a simplified English, where 
there were no double letters.I also think you could add a number of rules 
about composing variable names so that a variable name for something would
be highly predictable. You would also need automated enforcement of the 
rules as well as possible.

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#5630 — Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal

Roedy Green wrote:

> I tried to ask various advanced mathematicians what advice they had,
> but since the idea of using equations to draw cartoons was unheard of
> they were quite brusque with me. It was just too nutty and frivolous
> an idea to consider.

IIRC Fourier worked out how to draw a profile of Napolean, using a suitable
set of harmonics.

  BugBear

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#3888 — Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal

In message <iq996f01ge7@news2.newsguy.com>, Michael Wojcik wrote:

>    switch (((d2 > curve_collinearity_epsilon) << 1) +
>             (d3 > curve_collinearity_epsilon)) {
> 
> I would have preferred binary-or there rather than addition, for
> clarity, but either works.

Using the bitwise operator allows you to remove some parentheses.

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#3919 — Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <iq996f01ge7@news2.newsguy.com>, Michael Wojcik wrote:
> 
>>    switch (((d2 > curve_collinearity_epsilon) << 1) +
>>             (d3 > curve_collinearity_epsilon)) {
>>
>> I would have preferred binary-or there rather than addition, for
>> clarity, but either works.
> 
> Using the bitwise operator allows you to remove some parentheses.

True. (In C, addition has higher precedence than bit-shift, but
bitwise-or has lower precedence than bit-shift.) Whether that makes
the overall expression easier to read is a subjective question, but
I'd probably go with removing the unnecessary parentheses,
particularly with the two subexpressions on separate lines (assuming
we keep the formatting).

-- 
Michael Wojcik
Micro Focus
Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University

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#3946 — Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal

In message <iqbnga01epj@news1.newsguy.com>, Michael Wojcik wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> In message <iq996f01ge7@news2.newsguy.com>, Michael Wojcik wrote:
>> 
>>>    switch (((d2 > curve_collinearity_epsilon) << 1) +
>>>             (d3 > curve_collinearity_epsilon)) {
>>>
>>> I would have preferred binary-or there rather than addition, for
>>> clarity, but either works.
>> 
>> Using the bitwise operator allows you to remove some parentheses.
> 
> Whether that makes the overall expression easier to read is a subjective
> question, but I'd probably go with removing the unnecessary parentheses,
> particularly with the two subexpressions on separate lines (assuming
> we keep the formatting).

Try this (my preferred two-dimensional formatting style):

   switch
     (
           (d2 > curve_collinearity_epsilon) << 1
       |
           (d3 > curve_collinearity_epsilon)
     )
     {

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#3963 — Re: boolean to int : was char to decimal

On 05/10/2011 10:05 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>     switch
>       (
>             (d2>  curve_collinearity_epsilon)<<  1
>         |
>             (d3>  curve_collinearity_epsilon)
>       )

class Scratch {

   int main() {
     double d2;
     double d3;
     double e;
     switch ((d2 > e) << 1 | (d3 > e))
     {
       case 0:
       case 1:
       case 2:
       case 3:
       default:
     }
   }
}

Scratch.java:7: operator << cannot be applied to boolean,int
     switch ((d2 > e) << 1 | (d3 > e))
                      ^
Scratch.java:7: incompatible types
found   : boolean
required: int
     switch ((d2 > e) << 1 | (d3 > e))
                           ^
2 errors

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#3529

On 05/05/2011 01:43, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> IU need to take a char in UTF-8 and convert it to an ascii int (decimal)
>
> eg "a" = 97
>
> which is then converted to the string "97"
> Is there a simple way to do this?
>

Thanks.
Never knew it was so easy!

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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#3531

On 05/04/2011 08:43 PM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> IU need to take a char in UTF-8 and convert it to an ascii [sic] int (decimal)
>
> eg "a" = 97
>
> which is then converted to the string "97"
> Is there a simple way to do this?

First of all, a 'char' constant in Java is indicated with single quotes, not 
double quotes.

   char letter = 'a';

Second of all, 'char' in Java is a numeric type, so conversion to a numeric 
value is not needed.

Third of all, are you absolutely certain you want to convert the 16-bit value 
of a 'char' to a 7-bit ASCII value?  What about code points that require 32 
bits to express?  How would you convert those to a 7-bit encoding?

Finally, are you asking about direct numeric conversions, i.e., to output 
simply the numeric 16-bit value of the 'char', or are you asking about 
converting between different text encodings, e.g., between UTF-8 and ASCII? 
The answer to this question is key, because if you are talking about encodings 
then the answer is anything but "that easy"!

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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#3562

On 05/05/2011 02:59, Lew wrote:
> On 05/04/2011 08:43 PM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>> IU need to take a char in UTF-8 and convert it to an ascii [sic] int
>> (decimal)
>>
>> eg "a" = 97
>>
>> which is then converted to the string "97"
>> Is there a simple way to do this?
>
> First of all, a 'char' constant in Java is indicated with single quotes,
> not double quotes.
>
> char letter = 'a';
>
> Second of all, 'char' in Java is a numeric type, so conversion to a
> numeric value is not needed.
>
> Third of all, are you absolutely certain you want to convert the 16-bit
> value of a 'char' to a 7-bit ASCII value? What about code points that
> require 32 bits to express? How would you convert those to a 7-bit
> encoding?
>
> Finally, are you asking about direct numeric conversions, i.e., to
> output simply the numeric 16-bit value of the 'char', or are you asking
> about converting between different text encodings, e.g., between UTF-8
> and ASCII? The answer to this question is key, because if you are
> talking about encodings then the answer is anything but "that easy"!
>
I need it to match the packet i/f specs designed by somemone else that 
requires text characters be sent as decimal ascii

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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#3576

On 5/5/2011 8:14 AM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

> I need it to match the packet i/f specs designed by somemone else that
> requires text characters be sent as decimal ascii


That's a really odd requirement.  Your spec might mean just regular 
text.  Not ascii text, as in the character 9 followed by the character 
7, but just 'a' as a literal 97 byte value.

Just saying.

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#3596

markspace wrote:
> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>
>> I need it to match the packet i/f [?] specs designed by somemone else that
>> requires text characters be sent as decimal ascii [sic]
>
>
> That's a really odd requirement. Your spec might mean just regular text. Not
> ascii text, as in the character 9 followed by the character 7, but just 'a' as
> a literal 97 byte value.
>
> Just saying.

What value does that spec indicate to transmit, say, the characters 'æ' or 
'À', Dirk?

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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#3608

Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> wrote:
> markspace wrote:
>> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>>> I need it to match the packet i/f [?] specs designed by somemone else that
>>> requires text characters be sent as decimal ascii [sic]
>> That's a really odd requirement. Your spec might mean just regular text. Not
>> ascii text, as in the character 9 followed by the character 7, but just 'a' as
>> a literal 97 byte value.
> What value does that spec indicate to transmit, say, the characters 'æ' or 
> 'À', Dirk?

Or for this one 'µ' (\u00b5) or perhaps that one 'μ' (\u03bc) ? :)
I tend to assume, that the mentioned 'someone else' either just didn't
think of international letters, or thought of those and consciously
discarded them as irrelevant for this particular packet i/f...

PS: My guess is, that i/f means interface.

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#3611

On 05/05/2011 06:00 PM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
> Lew<noone@lewscanon.com>  wrote:
>> markspace wrote:
>>> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>>>> I need it to match the packet i/f [?] specs designed by somemone else that
>>>> requires text characters be sent as decimal ascii [sic]
>>> That's a really odd requirement. Your spec might mean just regular text. Not
>>> ascii text, as in the character 9 followed by the character 7, but just 'a' as
>>> a literal 97 byte value.
>> What value does that spec indicate to transmit, say, the characters 'æ' or
>> 'À', Dirk?
>
> Or for this one 'µ' (\u00b5) or perhaps that one 'μ' (\u03bc) ? :)
> I tend to assume, that the mentioned 'someone else' either just didn't
> think of international letters, or thought of those and consciously
> discarded them as irrelevant for this particular packet i/f...
>
> PS: My guess is, that i/f means interface.

Neither of the values you cited (\u00b5 or \u03bc') is an ASCII value, and 
therefore does not meet the stated spec.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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#3654

On 05/05/2011 22:10, Lew wrote:
> markspace wrote:
>> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>>
>>> I need it to match the packet i/f [?] specs designed by somemone else
>>> that
>>> requires text characters be sent as decimal ascii [sic]
>>
>>
>> That's a really odd requirement. Your spec might mean just regular
>> text. Not
>> ascii text, as in the character 9 followed by the character 7, but
>> just 'a' as
>> a literal 97 byte value.
>>
>> Just saying.
>
> What value does that spec indicate to transmit, say, the characters 'æ'
> or 'À', Dirk?

English alphabet only

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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#3667

On 05/06/2011 05:45 AM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> On 05/05/2011 22:10, Lew wrote:
>> markspace wrote:
>>> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>>>
>>>> I need it to match the packet i/f [?] specs designed by somemone else
>>>> that
>>>> requires text characters be sent as decimal ascii [sic]
>>>
>>>
>>> That's a really odd requirement. Your spec might mean just regular
>>> text. Not
>>> ascii text, as in the character 9 followed by the character 7, but
>>> just 'a' as
>>> a literal 97 byte value.
>>>
>>> Just saying.
>>
>> What value does that spec indicate to transmit, say, the characters 'æ'
>> or 'À', Dirk?
>
> English alphabet only

The English alphabet includes 'æ', 'ë', 'ö', 'œ' and other such symbols not 
included in ASCII.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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#3674

Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> wrote:
> On 05/06/2011 05:45 AM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>> English alphabet only
> The English alphabet includes 'æ', 'ë', 'ö', 'œ' and other
> such symbols not included in ASCII.

I wasn't aware of any particular "English alphabet". There's
however the Latin alphabet, and a subset of it used in 
English language.  Now, I'm curious about an English sentence
using your particular samples of characters within words.

Oh, and please don't make it a trivial one, like
  "'Ö' is not an English letter."

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#3676

On 05/06/2011 07:48 AM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
> Lew<noone@lewscanon.com>  wrote:
>> On 05/06/2011 05:45 AM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>>> English alphabet only
>> The English alphabet includes 'æ', 'ë', 'ö', 'œ' and other
>> such symbols not included in ASCII.
>
> I wasn't aware of any particular "English alphabet". There's
> however the Latin alphabet, and a subset of it used in
> English language.  Now, I'm curious about an English sentence
> using your particular samples of characters within words.

There is the "standard" English alphabet - A-Z. This also happens to 
coincide with, say, the French alphabet. Not that diacritics do not 
feature in this alphabet, nor is there any sense of distinction between 
`a' and `A', and, finally, nor is there any use of punctuation marks. In 
particular, ` ' is not in the English alphabet. Although it does feature 
very prominently in most texts written in English.

As for those letters:

Archæology, coöperation, naïve, résumé...

-- 
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not 
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth

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#3682

Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
> Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> wrote:
>> On 05/06/2011 05:45 AM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>>> English alphabet only
>> The English alphabet includes 'æ', 'ë', 'ö', 'œ' and other
>> such symbols not included in ASCII.
> 
> I wasn't aware of any particular "English alphabet". There's
> however the Latin alphabet, and a subset of it used in 
> English language.  Now, I'm curious about an English sentence
> using your particular samples of characters within words.

The ligatures and o-umlaut are relatively common in English
typography, particularly in books published before, say, 1950. Joshua
Cranmer already mentioned "coöperation" which (along with its lemmas)
is a prominent case of the latter.

I don't recall offhand seeing e-umlaut used in English sentences for
words that are not loan-words from other languages (though the
distinction between a loan-word and a "native" one in English is
rather vague anyway). But there may well be cases I'm not thinking of.

Whether those are part of "the English alphabet" is a question of
definition, since there is no generally-recognized authority to
provide a standard alphabet for English. At one time, "&" was part of
the alphabet, as taught in many English-speaking schools. The term
"ampersand" is a portmanteau of "and per se and", as the symbol was
then called "per se and" and it came at the end of the alphabet (so
recitation ended with "and per se and"). The letter "j" wasn't
well-established in the English alphabet until sometime in the 17th
century. And so on.

-- 
Michael Wojcik
Micro Focus
Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University

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