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Android apps development

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  Android apps development "sl@exabyte" <ecp_gen@my-rialto.com> - 2011-04-02 17:44 -0700
    Re: Android apps development Fredrik Jonson <fredrik@jonson.org> - 2011-04-02 08:47 +0000
      Re: Android apps development Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-04-02 10:52 -0700
        Re: Android apps development Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-04-02 11:13 -0700
          Re: Android apps development Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-04-02 14:25 -0400
            Re: Android apps development Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-04-02 20:22 +0100
            Re: Android apps development Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-04-03 00:06 +0100
              Re: Android apps development Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-04-02 19:10 -0400
              Re: Android apps development Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com> - 2011-04-02 21:27 -0400
          Re: Android apps development Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-04-03 10:48 +1200
            Re: Android apps development Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-04-02 16:01 -0700
              Re: Android apps development Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-04-03 12:56 +1200
                Re: Android apps development Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-04-03 17:31 +0100
    Re: Android apps development Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-04-02 21:57 +1300
      Re: Android apps development Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-04-02 10:07 -0300
        Re: Android apps development Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-04-03 10:44 +1200
          Re: Android apps development Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-04-03 10:36 -0300
            Re: Android apps development vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2011-05-04 04:39 +0000
              Re: Android apps development Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-04 16:55 -0400
              Re: Android apps development Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-04 22:07 -0700
                Re: Android apps development Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-05 17:13 +1200
                  Re: Android apps development Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 16:18 +0100
                    Re: Android apps development Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-05 08:43 -0700
                    Re: Android apps development Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-05 09:11 -0700
                      Re: Android apps development Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 21:07 +0100
                        Re: Android apps development Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-05 16:57 -0400
                        Re: Android apps development Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-05 15:27 -0700
                          Re: Android apps development Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 10:51 +0100
                            Re: Android apps development Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-06 16:14 -0700
                              Re: Android apps development Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-07 01:05 +0100
                                Re: Android apps development Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-07 15:52 +1200
                    Re: Android apps development Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 15:28 -0400
                    Re: Android apps development Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-06 11:48 +1200
                      Re: Android apps development Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 10:53 +0100
                    Re: Android apps development Nigel Wade <nmw-news@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2011-05-06 09:49 +0100
                      Re: Android apps development The Frog <mr.frog.to.you@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-06 02:15 -0700
                      Re: Android apps development Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 10:56 +0100
      Re: Android apps development Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-04-02 06:24 -0700
        Re: Android apps development Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-04-02 14:44 +0100
        Re: Android apps development Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-04-02 10:53 -0700
          Re: Android apps development Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-04-02 11:10 -0700
        Re: Android apps development Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-04-03 10:33 +1200
      Re: Android apps development Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> - 2011-04-02 14:43 +0100
        Re: Android apps development Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-04-02 11:04 -0400
    Re: Android apps development Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-04-02 11:01 -0400

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#3542

In message <tvb4s65rbvr6uok50jvh51r8fttcv1k2dn@4ax.com>, Roedy Green wrote:

> From the quick exploration I did, it does not even support AWT, SWT or
> Swing.

That’s right. Desktop-oriented GUIs are a waste of time on an ultramobile 
device, as Microsoft found out with Windows Mobile.

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#3565

On 05/05/2011 06:13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message<tvb4s65rbvr6uok50jvh51r8fttcv1k2dn@4ax.com>, Roedy Green wrote:
>
>>  From the quick exploration I did, it does not even support AWT, SWT or
>> Swing.
>
> That’s right. Desktop-oriented GUIs are a waste of time on an ultramobile
> device, as Microsoft found out with Windows Mobile.

Only this year.
A bit down the line and Tablets will be as powerful as today's desktop.

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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#3566

On Thu, 05 May 2011 16:18:32 +0100, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
<dirk.bruere@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>Only this year.
>A bit down the line and Tablets will be as powerful as today's desktop.

The Blackberry Playbook has a dual core 1 GHz CPU and 1 Gig RAM.  It
was not that long ago that was a respectable desktop.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Politicians complain that Kindles and iBooks are killing jobs by 
destroying the paper book industry.  I see it that they have create a way 
to produce books for less than a third the cost without destroying forests 
and emitting greenhouse gases in the process.  They have created wealth.  
They are encouraging literacy and cutting the costs of education.  

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#3569

In article <92fte3FjeiU3@mid.individual.net>, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax 
says...

> >>  From the quick exploration I did, it does not even support AWT, 
SWT or
> >> Swing.
> >
> > That?s right. Desktop-oriented GUIs are a waste of time on an ultramobile
> > device, as Microsoft found out with Windows Mobile.
> 
> Only this year.
> A bit down the line and Tablets will be as powerful as today's desktop.

MMmmmm, I don't know about that, I think it will probably take a little 
longer than 6-8 months. I'd predict that by the start of 2012, tablets 
*will* have made some advances, but they won't have gone that far yet.

Keep in mind that mobile devices with dual-core CPU's are still the 
exception, not the norm, and if you can find a tablet into which you can 
put 4GB of RAM, please let me know, I'll go buy one...

-- 
Steve Sobol - Programming/WebDev/IT Support
sjsobol@JustThe.net

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#3584

On 05/05/2011 17:11, Steve Sobol wrote:
> In article<92fte3FjeiU3@mid.individual.net>, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> says...
>
>>>>    From the quick exploration I did, it does not even support AWT,
> SWT or
>>>> Swing.
>>>
>>> That?s right. Desktop-oriented GUIs are a waste of time on an ultramobile
>>> device, as Microsoft found out with Windows Mobile.
>>
>> Only this year.
>> A bit down the line and Tablets will be as powerful as today's desktop.
>
> MMmmmm, I don't know about that, I think it will probably take a little
> longer than 6-8 months. I'd predict that by the start of 2012, tablets
> *will* have made some advances, but they won't have gone that far yet.
>
> Keep in mind that mobile devices with dual-core CPU's are still the
> exception, not the norm, and if you can find a tablet into which you can
> put 4GB of RAM, please let me know, I'll go buy one...
>

Almost all the Honeycomb Tablets will be shipping with dual core ARM at 
1GHz (Tegra 2) and 1GB RAM. The Tegra roadmap I have seen projects a 75x 
increase in performance over the next 4 years (inc the graphics).
http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/02/tegra-roadmap-revealed-next-chip-worlds-first-quadcore-mobile-processor/ 


"While demonstrating Project Kal-El was exciting, we also gave a glimpse 
of our roadmap here at MWC. It includes Projects codenamed Wayne, Logan, 
and Stark, coming out in a steady one-year cadence over the next three 
years. You might well ask, What on earth can be done with nearly 75x 
improvement in performance over Tegra 2 that Stark will provide in 2014? "

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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#3591

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> Almost all the Honeycomb Tablets will be shipping with dual core ARM at 1GHz
> (Tegra 2) and 1GB RAM. The Tegra roadmap I have seen projects a 75x increase
> in performance over the next 4 years (inc the graphics).
> http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/02/tegra-roadmap-revealed-next-chip-worlds-first-quadcore-mobile-processor/
>
>
> "While demonstrating Project Kal-El was exciting, we also gave a glimpse of
> our roadmap here at MWC. It includes Projects codenamed Wayne, Logan, and
> Stark, coming out in a steady one-year cadence over the next three years. You
> might well ask, What on earth can be done with nearly 75x improvement in
> performance over Tegra 2 that Stark will provide in 2014? "

I truly hope these guys contacted the various comic-book, er, graphic-novel 
publishers for those trademark rights.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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#3614

I said,

> > Keep in mind that mobile devices with dual-core CPU's are still the
> > exception, not the norm, and if you can find a tablet into which you can
> > put 4GB of RAM, please let me know, I'll go buy one...

Dirk replied, 
> Almost all the Honeycomb Tablets will be shipping with dual core ARM at 
> 1GHz (Tegra 2) and 1GB RAM. 

** will be **

how many are out there now? Not being argumentative, it's a serious 
question, I haven't kept close tabs on the market (pun intended).



-- 
Steve Sobol - Programming/WebDev/IT Support
sjsobol@JustThe.net

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#3655

On 05/05/2011 23:27, Steve Sobol wrote:
> I said,
>
>>> Keep in mind that mobile devices with dual-core CPU's are still the
>>> exception, not the norm, and if you can find a tablet into which you can
>>> put 4GB of RAM, please let me know, I'll go buy one...
>
> Dirk replied,
>> Almost all the Honeycomb Tablets will be shipping with dual core ARM at
>> 1GHz (Tegra 2) and 1GB RAM.
>
> ** will be **
>
> how many are out there now? Not being argumentative, it's a serious
> question, I haven't kept close tabs on the market (pun intended).

I'm using one with Tegra 2 and 512GB running Android 2.2 for development

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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#3726

In article <92hulpFh10U3@mid.individual.net>, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax 
says...
> 
> On 05/05/2011 23:27, Steve Sobol wrote:
> > I said,
> >
> >>> Keep in mind that mobile devices with dual-core CPU's are still the
> >>> exception, not the norm, and if you can find a tablet into which you can
> >>> put 4GB of RAM, please let me know, I'll go buy one...
> >
> > Dirk replied,
> >> Almost all the Honeycomb Tablets will be shipping with dual core ARM at
> >> 1GHz (Tegra 2) and 1GB RAM.
> >
> > ** will be **
> >
> > how many are out there now? Not being argumentative, it's a serious
> > question, I haven't kept close tabs on the market (pun intended).
> 
> I'm using one with Tegra 2 and 512GB running Android 2.2 for development

How many Honeycomb Tablets, I meant. I know there are a few out there, 
but am not sure how many others -- if any -- have hit the market in the 
past couple months.

-- 
Steve Sobol - Programming/WebDev/IT Support
sjsobol@JustThe.net

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#3729

On 07/05/2011 00:14, Steve Sobol wrote:
> In article<92hulpFh10U3@mid.individual.net>, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> says...
>>
>> On 05/05/2011 23:27, Steve Sobol wrote:
>>> I said,
>>>
>>>>> Keep in mind that mobile devices with dual-core CPU's are still the
>>>>> exception, not the norm, and if you can find a tablet into which you can
>>>>> put 4GB of RAM, please let me know, I'll go buy one...
>>>
>>> Dirk replied,
>>>> Almost all the Honeycomb Tablets will be shipping with dual core ARM at
>>>> 1GHz (Tegra 2) and 1GB RAM.
>>>
>>> ** will be **
>>>
>>> how many are out there now? Not being argumentative, it's a serious
>>> question, I haven't kept close tabs on the market (pun intended).
>>
>> I'm using one with Tegra 2 and 512GB running Android 2.2 for development
>
> How many Honeycomb Tablets, I meant. I know there are a few out there,
> but am not sure how many others -- if any -- have hit the market in the
> past couple months.
>
Well, I hear that getting on for 100 are due to be released over the 
next few months, almost all from Chinese companies.

I have seen 2 recently, apart from Xoom

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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#3741

In message <92jgmrFkucU1@mid.individual.net>, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

> On 07/05/2011 00:14, Steve Sobol wrote:
>
>> How many Honeycomb Tablets, I meant. I know there are a few out there,
>> but am not sure how many others -- if any -- have hit the market in the
>> past couple months.
>>
> Well, I hear that getting on for 100 are due to be released over the
> next few months, almost all from Chinese companies.

Honeycomb still seems to be a work in progress. Like the whole tablet 
market, really. Several vendors have persisted with releasing tablets 
running 2.x versions of Android, in spite of Google’s admission that these 
versions are not suited to tablets. (Contrast Microsoft’s strict control 
over Windows Phone: you can’t build a tablet running that, and that’s that.)

And people have bought them. There have been some remarkable products coming 
in under the radar, like the discovery that the Nook Color is so easy to 
root, you just put a custom OS on the SD card and it will automatically boot 
from that. On top of which, B&N released an official software update to make 
it more explicitly Androidish.

In short, if you only keep your eye out for big names and big ad campaigns, 
you’re going to miss the real innovation.

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#3579

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> writes:

> On 05/05/2011 06:13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> In message<tvb4s65rbvr6uok50jvh51r8fttcv1k2dn@4ax.com>, Roedy Green wrote:
>>
>>>  From the quick exploration I did, it does not even support AWT, SWT or
>>> Swing.
>>
>> That’s right. Desktop-oriented GUIs are a waste of time on an ultramobile
>> device, as Microsoft found out with Windows Mobile.
>
> Only this year.
> A bit down the line and Tablets will be as powerful as today's desktop.

Maybe, but they still won't have mice, or keyboards, and they'll still
be about the same size. Horsepower isn't the only problem when it comes
to forcing a desktop GUI onto a mobile device.

sherm--

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#3625

In message <92fte3FjeiU3@mid.individual.net>, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

> On 05/05/2011 06:13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message<tvb4s65rbvr6uok50jvh51r8fttcv1k2dn@4ax.com>, Roedy Green
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  From the quick exploration I did, it does not even support AWT, SWT or
>>> Swing.
>>
>> That’s right. Desktop-oriented GUIs are a waste of time on an ultramobile
>> device, as Microsoft found out with Windows Mobile.
> 
> Only this year.
> A bit down the line and Tablets will be as powerful as today's desktop.

Tablets are a different kettle of fish again. Look at Microsoft’s attempts 
to transplant the regular Windows desktop UI onto them—doesn’t work.

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#3656

On 06/05/2011 00:48, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message<92fte3FjeiU3@mid.individual.net>, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>
>> On 05/05/2011 06:13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message<tvb4s65rbvr6uok50jvh51r8fttcv1k2dn@4ax.com>, Roedy Green
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>    From the quick exploration I did, it does not even support AWT, SWT or
>>>> Swing.
>>>
>>> That’s right. Desktop-oriented GUIs are a waste of time on an ultramobile
>>> device, as Microsoft found out with Windows Mobile.
>>
>> Only this year.
>> A bit down the line and Tablets will be as powerful as today's desktop.
>
> Tablets are a different kettle of fish again. Look at Microsoft’s attempts
> to transplant the regular Windows desktop UI onto them—doesn’t work.

Like in browsers, the bloated MS bureaucracy has been caught totally off 
guard. The fact that they are PAYING Nokia billions to run their 
offering shows how panicked they are.

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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#3651

On 05/05/11 16:18, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> On 05/05/2011 06:13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> In message<tvb4s65rbvr6uok50jvh51r8fttcv1k2dn@4ax.com>, Roedy Green
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  From the quick exploration I did, it does not even support AWT, SWT or
>>> Swing.
>>
>> That’s right. Desktop-oriented GUIs are a waste of time on an ultramobile
>> device, as Microsoft found out with Windows Mobile.
> 
> Only this year.

The writing had been on the wall for many years, Microsoft just chose
bury their heads in the sand, presumably thinking their monopoly of the
desktop would carry them through. It's only really since the iPhone
eclipsed the rest of the smartphone market, and caused it to wake up,
that Microsoft actually thought they might need to do something.

> A bit down the line and Tablets will be as powerful as today's desktop.
> 

It's not about power, it's simple ergonomics. You can't operate a device
with megapixel resoultion using a fat-finger. Windows Mobile requires a
stylus, and that's not practical or desirable.

A desktop GUI designed for operation by mouse/pointer and keyboard ain't
going to work on a finger driven display. It requires a complete
rethink, and redesign of the human interface. That's what Apple did, and
got right, whilst Microsoft failed to do anything.

-- 
Nigel Wade

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#3653

Nigel Wrote:
'A desktop GUI designed for operation by mouse/pointer and keyboard
ain't
going to work on a finger driven display. It requires a complete
rethink, and redesign of the human interface. That's what Apple did,
and
got right, whilst Microsoft failed to do anything.'

That pretty much sums it up right there. The power is useless without
the ability to actually work with it. The nearest thing in the desktop
world to tablet apps is some touchscreen apps (mostly seen in Retail
POS systems it seems). Convergence of the design methodologies of
desktop and tablet apps may not be possible. This means of course that
a new skillset needs to be developed to create great user interfaces
for tablet type devices to do the same job that is being done with
keyboard and mouse on a desktop. This is not a trivial challenge in
itself, and added to this is the user expectation that working with a
tablet is 'lighter and easier', and added to that again are issues
surrounding portability and limited resources. Its not so straight
forward to jump from one skillset to the other.

There is a company is China (go figure) that produces tablets to
order. The group is called Seewor Tech (www.seewortech.com). If you
are looing for a custom research or development tablet perhaps they
might help. I have not used them myself yet, but intend to around the
middle of this year when I get a few spare minutes to actually figure
out what I want. Hope that helps anyone looking for custom stuff.
There are probably other groups similar to this too of course, I only
mention this as it is one I found in my random stublings around the
net and is not intended in any way as an endorsement of them as a
company.

Cheers

The Frog

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#3657

On 06/05/2011 09:49, Nigel Wade wrote:
> On 05/05/11 16:18, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>> On 05/05/2011 06:13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> In message<tvb4s65rbvr6uok50jvh51r8fttcv1k2dn@4ax.com>, Roedy Green
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>    From the quick exploration I did, it does not even support AWT, SWT or
>>>> Swing.
>>>
>>> That’s right. Desktop-oriented GUIs are a waste of time on an ultramobile
>>> device, as Microsoft found out with Windows Mobile.
>>
>> Only this year.
>
> The writing had been on the wall for many years, Microsoft just chose
> bury their heads in the sand, presumably thinking their monopoly of the
> desktop would carry them through. It's only really since the iPhone
> eclipsed the rest of the smartphone market, and caused it to wake up,
> that Microsoft actually thought they might need to do something.
>
>> A bit down the line and Tablets will be as powerful as today's desktop.
>>
>
> It's not about power, it's simple ergonomics. You can't operate a device
> with megapixel resoultion using a fat-finger. Windows Mobile requires a
> stylus, and that's not practical or desirable.
>
> A desktop GUI designed for operation by mouse/pointer and keyboard ain't
> going to work on a finger driven display. It requires a complete
> rethink, and redesign of the human interface. That's what Apple did, and
> got right, whilst Microsoft failed to do anything.
>

Well, an idea that is at least 15 years overdue is something I saw and 
used at a trade show around 1991. It was called (IIRC) an "eyephone". A 
projector that fitted over one eye, about the size of a pack of chewing gum.

Somebody is going to bring out a phone or Tablet with a megapixel 
version of that. It will be hailed as revolutionary.

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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#2743

On 4/2/2011 1:57 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message<in6n58$7oj$1@news.albasani.net>, sl@exabyte wrote:
>
>> For Android development questions, OK to ask here ?
>
> Only if you have a thick skin.
>
> Android is a bit of a shock to the system to many of the corporate code-
> cutter drones who normally hang out here.

"corporate code-cutter drones" is not a particularly polite way of
referring to people who have been trying to help you.

Patricia

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#2746

On 02/04/2011 14:24, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> On 4/2/2011 1:57 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> In message<in6n58$7oj$1@news.albasani.net>, sl@exabyte wrote:
>>
>>> For Android development questions, OK to ask here ?
>>
>> Only if you have a thick skin.
>>
>> Android is a bit of a shock to the system to many of the corporate code-
>> cutter drones who normally hang out here.
>
> "corporate code-cutter drones" is not a particularly polite way of
> referring to people who have been trying to help you.
>
> Patricia

It's better than "coding monkeys" :-)

-- 
Dirk

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/ - My new book - Magick and Technology

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#2765

On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 06:24:20 -0700, Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>
>"corporate code-cutter drones" is not a particularly polite way of
>referring to people who have been trying to help you.

I find it distressing how rude people are both requesting help and
offering it. A cheap way to put a comedy show on the air is just have
people insult each other. I think a whole new generation has grown up
thinking of insult as a form of entertainment.

The Internet isolates people from a punch in the nose, being screamed
at, threatened or other physical retaliation.  You see the same effect
then when people are isolated in cars. They behave quite differently
than they would face to face.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Doing what the user expects with respect to navigation is absurdly important for user satisfaction.
~ anonymous Google Android developer

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