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Swing

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  Swing "bob smith" <bob.smith@1:261/38.remove-nlb-this> - 2012-08-13 18:36 +0000
    Re: Swing "markspace" <markspace@1:261/38.remove-nlb-this> - 2012-08-13 18:36 +0000
    Re: Swing "Arne Vajhøj" <arne.vajhøj@1:261/38.remove-nlb-this> - 2012-08-13 18:36 +0000
    Re: Swing "Roedy Green" <roedy.green@1:261/38.remove-z1z-this> - 2012-08-15 18:36 +0000
      Re: Swing "Jeff Higgins" <jeff.higgins@1:261/38.remove-z1z-this> - 2012-08-15 18:36 +0000
      Re: Swing "Qu0ll" <qu0ll@1:261/38.remove-s96-this> - 2012-08-16 19:16 +0000
        Re: Swing "Arne Vajhøj" <arne.vajhøj@1:261/38.remove-rj6-this> - 2012-08-18 18:36 +0000
          Re: Swing "Qu0ll" <qu0ll@1:261/38.remove-v8v-this> - 2012-08-19 18:11 +0000
            Re: Swing "markspace" <markspace@1:261/38.remove-v8v-this> - 2012-08-19 18:11 +0000
              Re: Swing "Arne Vajhøj" <arne.vajhøj@1:261/38.remove-fzq-this> - 2012-08-20 18:58 +0000
                Re: Swing "markspace" <markspace@1:261/38.remove-fzq-this> - 2012-08-20 18:58 +0000
              Re: Swing "Qu0ll" <qu0ll@1:261/38.remove-fzq-this> - 2012-08-20 18:58 +0000
            Re: Swing "Arne Vajhøj" <arne.vajhøj@1:261/38.remove-fzq-this> - 2012-08-20 18:58 +0000

#17829 — Swing

From: bob smith <bob@coolfone.comze.com>

Is Swing still pretty much the standard for Java graphics?  Or has it finally 
been replaced by something better?

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#17830

  To: bob smith
From: markspace <-@.>

On 8/13/2012 8:04 AM, bob smith wrote:
> Is Swing still pretty much the standard for Java graphics?  Or has it
> finally been replaced by something better?
>


Swing is still your only real choice, as far as I know.  JavaFX is up can 
coming, but to quote Gertrude Stein, "there is no there there."

JavaFX appears to only be about half baked;  you can do some things with it, 
but not everything Swing can do.  It's not really a mature platform yet.  Still 
worth knowing about for a Java developer, as Oracle could make it ready just 
about any time now.

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#17832

  To: bob smith
From: Arne Vajhoj <arne@vajhoej.dk>

On 8/13/2012 11:04 AM, bob smith wrote:
> Is Swing still pretty much the standard for Java graphics?  Or has it finally
been replaced by something better?

Swing is the safe choice as it is mature and has been part of Java SE for about 
a decade.

If you want more native look and feel and can live with only support on major 
desktop platforms then you can go for SWT.

If you want a modern (*) GUI development platform and can live with only 
support on major desktop platforms then you can go for JavaFX.

As JavaFX is planned to be part of Java SE 8, then if you are looking at long 
term, then JavaFX seems as something you need to look into.

*) Newer does not guarantee better, but given that SUN/Oracle (JavaFX),
Adobe (Flex) and MS (WPF & SL) all went for the model with XML markup and code, 
then maybe it is better!

Arne

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#17899

  To: bob smith
From: Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 08:04:33 -0700 (PDT), bob smith
<bob@coolfone.comze.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :

>Is Swing still pretty much the standard for Java graphics?  Or has it finally
been replaced by something better?

Oracle is pushing JavaFX, but I don't think it will go anywhere. It does not 
integrate. So Swing is it for now.

--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products http://mindprod.com A new scientific truth 
does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light,
but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up 
that is familiar with it.
~ Max Planck 1858-04-23 1947-10-04

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#17902

  To: Roedy Green
From: Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>

On 08/14/2012 08:47 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 08:04:33 -0700 (PDT), bob smith
> <bob@coolfone.comze.com>  wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
> who said :
>
>> Is Swing still pretty much the standard for Java graphics?  Or has it
finally been replaced by something better?
>
> Oracle is pushing JavaFX, but I don't think it will go anywhere. It
> does not integrate. So Swing is it for now.
>
I've been spending some time exploring JavaFX. Will you please expand on your 
comment that [JavaFX] does not integrate?

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#17943

  To: Roedy Green
From: "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>

"Roedy Green"  wrote in message
news:5csl28pian0391sl4iehdl47hp289i5ai7@4ax.com...

> Oracle is pushing JavaFX, but I don't think it will go anywhere. It
> does not integrate. So Swing is it for now.

Doesn't integrate???  With what exactly?  JavaFX is just another Java API, is 
now included as part of the JDK (as of 7 Update 6), interoperates seamlessly 
with Swing, works with all standard Java SE packages, works well with other 
JVM-based languages and has some very, very impressive features. If you want to 
develop new GUI apps with Java then JavaFX is a "no brainer" as they say in the 
states.

Swing will hang around for a long time yet but is not being actively developed 
by Oracle anymore and good luck trying to get any bugs in it fixed.  They are 
pouring an enormous amount of resources into JavaFX and rightly so - it's great 
technology.

IMHO you'd be nuts to start a new project with Swing instead of FX.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

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#18012

  To: Qu0ll
From: Arne Vajhoj <arne@vajhoej.dk>

On 8/16/2012 5:14 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "Roedy Green"  wrote in message
> news:5csl28pian0391sl4iehdl47hp289i5ai7@4ax.com...
>> Oracle is pushing JavaFX, but I don't think it will go anywhere. It
>> does not integrate. So Swing is it for now.
>
> Doesn't integrate???  With what exactly?

Roedy probably just made it up.

You should not be surprised if you never get an an answer.

>                                  JavaFX is just another Java
> API, is now included as part of the JDK (as of 7 Update 6),
> interoperates seamlessly with Swing, works with all standard Java SE
> packages, works well with other JVM-based languages and has some very,
> very impressive features.

JavaFX is 10 years newer than Swing and it shows.

>                      If you want to develop new GUI apps with Java
> then JavaFX is a "no brainer" as they say in the states.
>
> Swing will hang around for a long time yet but is not being actively
> developed by Oracle anymore and good luck trying to get any bugs in it
> fixed.  They are pouring an enormous amount of resources into JavaFX and
> rightly so - it's great technology.
>
> IMHO you'd be nuts to start a new project with Swing instead of FX.

JavaFX is certainly worth considering.

But one may have a need to support a platform where JavaFX is not available 
yet.

Arne

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#18098

  To: Arne Vajhøj
From: "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>

"Arne Vajhoj"  wrote in message
news:502ef432$0$282$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

>> Doesn't integrate???  With what exactly?
>
> Roedy probably just made it up.
>
> You should not be surprised if you never get an an answer.

We you are probably right but it's just such a ridiculous comment as one of 
JavaFX's strongest selling points is its ability to integrate.  Perhaps Roedy 
is thinking of the old JavaFX versions 1.x when it wasn't a Java API and relied 
on a proprietary new language named JavaFX Script.  JavaFX 2.x is completely 
different and, as I said, integrates with anything JVM-based.

> JavaFX is 10 years newer than Swing and it shows.

Yes, it is based on a completely new hardware accelerated graphics engine named 
Prism and new windowing toolkit named Glass.  It is feature-rich and fast.  The 
properties and binding framework on its own is worth the price of admission.  
The number of standard controls is growing constantly and includes a 
WebKit-based WebView control that supports HTML 5 and CSS 3 and JavaScript, a 
Canvas control similar to HTML 5 Canvas, video and audio playback controls, a 
vast array of charts, animations and transitions and a very good set of more 
common/basic widgets for form development.  And if they aren't enough, there 
are several ways to roll your own.  Features coming up in the next major 
release (which will be named JavaFX 8.0 as it is now aligned with JDK versions) 
include full 3D support.

> JavaFX is certainly worth considering.
>
> But one may have a need to support a platform where JavaFX is not
> available yet.

As of Java 7 Update 6 JavaFX is now supported on Windows (at least Windows XP, 
Windows 2008, Windows 7), MacOS X and Linux and also runs on some ARM based 
systems like Raspberry Pi.  In addition, Oracle is doing a significant amount 
of work on getting it to run on iOS and Android and have demonstrated it on 
these platforms several times in recent months.  I am expecting an "official" 
announcement at this year's JavaOne regarding exactly where that development is 
up to.  As far as I can tell they have resolved most of the technical issues by 
using Ahead Of Time compilation (so no JIT as executable memory is not 
supported on iOS or Metro for that matter) and the majority of the remaining 
work involves achieving good levels of performance and also in the development 
of the tools required to deploy a JavaFX app to those platforms.  Personally, I 
find this all very exciting!

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

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#18103

  To: Qu0ll
From: markspace <-@.>

On 8/18/2012 9:55 PM, Qu0ll wrote:
>  (so no JIT as executable memory is not supported on iOS or
> Metro for that matter)


Just curious: Metro = Windows 8?  Because there's a few other Metros floating 
around, and Microsoft has officially dropped the name Metro for their new OS.

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#18226

  To: markspace
From: Arne Vajhoj <arne@vajhoej.dk>

On 8/19/2012 1:05 PM, markspace wrote:
> On 8/18/2012 9:55 PM, Qu0ll wrote:
>>  (so no JIT as executable memory is not supported on iOS or
>> Metro for that matter)
>
> Just curious: Metro = Windows 8?  Because there's a few other Metros
> floating around, and Microsoft has officially dropped the name Metro for
> their new OS.

I suspect he means WP8 not Win8.

Arne

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#18228

  To: Arne Vajhøj
From: markspace <-@.>

On 8/19/2012 1:04 PM, Arne Vajhoj wrote:
>
> I suspect he means WP8 not Win8.


OK, so again please excuse my acronym ignorance, but what is WP8? WordPerfect 
8?

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#18237

  To: markspace
From: "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>

"markspace"  wrote in message news:k0r6di$4lm$1@dont-email.me...

> Just curious: Metro = Windows 8?  Because there's a few other Metros
> floating around, and Microsoft has officially dropped the name Metro for
> their new OS.

I meant the Windows 8 subsystem formerly known as Metro.  It does not support 
executable memory along with other nice-to-haves like OpenGL.

Whatever it is called now, it may work well and be suitable on mobile/tablet 
platforms but it is a total flop on the desktop IMHO.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

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#18225

  To: Qu0ll
From: Arne Vajhoj <arne@vajhoej.dk>

On 8/19/2012 12:55 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "Arne Vajhoj"  wrote in message
> news:502ef432$0$282$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>
>>> Doesn't integrate???  With what exactly?
>>
>> Roedy probably just made it up.
>>
>> You should not be surprised if you never get an an answer.
>
> We you are probably right but it's just such a ridiculous comment as one
> of JavaFX's strongest selling points is its ability to integrate.
> Perhaps Roedy is thinking of the old JavaFX versions 1.x when it wasn't
> a Java API and relied on a proprietary new language named JavaFX
> Script.  JavaFX 2.x is completely different and, as I said, integrates
> with anything JVM-based.

Even JavaFX 1.x could integrate with Swing and Java code.

>> JavaFX is 10 years newer than Swing and it shows.
>
> Yes, it is based on a completely new hardware accelerated graphics
> engine named Prism and new windowing toolkit named Glass.  It is
> feature-rich and fast.  The properties and binding framework on its own
> is worth the price of admission.  The number of standard controls is
> growing constantly and includes a WebKit-based WebView control that
> supports HTML 5 and CSS 3 and JavaScript, a Canvas control similar to
> HTML 5 Canvas, video and audio playback controls, a vast array of
> charts, animations and transitions and a very good set of more
> common/basic widgets for form development.  And if they aren't enough,
> there are several ways to roll your own.  Features coming up in the next
> major release (which will be named JavaFX 8.0 as it is now aligned with
> JDK versions) include full 3D support.

Do you work for Oracle JavaFX marketing?

:-) :-) :-)

Well - it is newer and the split in FXML and Java code is very nice.

To some extent it can be viewed as the equivalent of going from servlet to JSP 
to output HTML.

>> JavaFX is certainly worth considering.
>>
>> But one may have a need to support a platform where JavaFX is not
>> available yet.
>
> As of Java 7 Update 6 JavaFX is now supported on Windows (at least
> Windows XP, Windows 2008, Windows 7), MacOS X and Linux and also runs on
> some ARM based systems like Raspberry Pi.  In addition, Oracle is doing
> a significant amount of work on getting it to run on iOS and Android and
> have demonstrated it on these platforms several times in recent months.

Yes.

But there are still a few using other platforms.

And a lot that is stuck on older Java versions.

For various reasons.

But I agree that if one has the choice then JavaFX should be preferred over 
Swing.

Arne

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