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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #11469
| From | Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.java.programmer |
| Subject | Re: Volatile happens before question |
| Date | 2012-01-18 09:23 -0800 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <jf6v5l$2h6$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <jf52tt$9b9$1@dont-email.me> <jf5g64$uga$1@dont-email.me> <k0j9x3nt2or.70vxbwtikmz$.dlg@40tude.net> <jf5mm0$ndt$1@dont-email.me> <jf5uh7$9vh$1@news.albasani.net> |
On 1/18/2012 12:06 AM, Lew wrote:
> On 01/17/2012 09:52 PM, Knute Johnson wrote:
>> Let's start over here:
>>
>> Thread 1
>> int b = 0;
>> volatile boolean a = false;
>> ...
>> ...
>> a = true;
>> b = 1;
>>
>> Thread 2
>> int bStore = b;
>> if (!a) {
>> System.out.println("The value of b is " + bStore);
>> }
>>
>> Will this always print either "The value of b is 0" or nothing.
>>
>> +++++++++++++++
>>
>> I'm not even sure what we are discussing any more so I will make a
>> statement
>> that I don't think can be false.
>
> I'm going to go out on a limb here.
>
>> If a is false at the if in thread 2 then b must be 0 in thread 2.
>
> No. Thread 2 could observe the write 'b = 1;' prior to observing the
> write 'a = true;'.
>
> "observes" means "thread 2 observes from thread 1:".
>
> «(observes 'a == false') implies (observes 'b = 0')».
> This is clearly true because
> 'b = 0' /hb/ 'a = false' /hb/ if (!a) true
>
> «(observes 'b = 1') implies (observes 'a = true')»
> «(observes 'a = true') implies (observes 'b = 1')»
>
> Neither is true. There is no /hb/ between the two writes. Thread 2 can
> observe them in either order.
>
> «(observes 'a == false') implies (!observes 'b = 1')».
>
> There is no /hb/ between these two writes. Ergo thread 2 could view them
> in either order.
>
>> In thread 1, b = 0 happens before a = false happens before a = true
>> happens
>> before b = 1.
>
> Yes, but thread 2 does not have this /hb/ order. There is no
> inter-thread /hb/ that orders the writes 'a = false;', 'a = true;' and
> 'b = 1;'. T2 can see 'b = 1;' prior to either write to 'a'.
>
>> In thread 2, bStore = b happens before the test of a. Therefore bStore
>> must be
>> 0 in the print statement if a is false.
>
> No. T2 can observe 'b = 1;' because no promise or prevention applies to
> writes that happen after the observed write to 'a'.
>
>> And if a is true at the test in thread 2 then b could be either 0 or 1.
>>
>> Do we disagree on this?
>
> There is no /hb/ among the writes to 'a' and the 'b = 1;' write that T2
> can observe. T2 can see consecutive writes of zero and one to 'b' before
> it sees any of the writes to 'a', or it could never see the 'b = 1;'
> write, or anything in between.
>
I woke up at 5 this morning thinking about this and I think I agree with
you now. The more I think about this the less sense it makes. Or maybe
it's the less sense I make :-).
--
Knute Johnson
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Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-17 04:04 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-17 08:17 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 08:50 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-17 09:00 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-17 08:54 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 11:24 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-01-17 14:49 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> - 2012-01-17 15:49 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-17 17:14 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-01-17 18:17 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 16:45 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> - 2012-01-17 08:18 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 08:33 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> - 2012-01-17 08:49 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> - 2012-01-17 09:21 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 10:10 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-01-17 10:28 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 10:41 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-01-17 11:06 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 12:09 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 12:12 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-17 12:38 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 13:35 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 14:41 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-01-17 14:55 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 15:27 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-17 17:37 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-17 17:42 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> - 2012-01-17 15:46 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-17 16:14 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> - 2012-01-17 20:01 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-17 20:37 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> - 2012-01-17 21:52 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-17 23:47 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-18 00:08 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> - 2012-01-18 09:04 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2012-01-18 11:22 +0000
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-18 06:24 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-18 07:32 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-18 08:34 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-18 10:12 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-18 11:15 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-18 11:59 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-18 12:24 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-18 13:16 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> - 2012-01-18 15:00 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-18 16:12 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-01-18 16:34 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-18 17:17 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-01-18 19:03 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-18 15:30 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-18 16:10 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 08:18 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-19 09:40 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 10:10 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-19 10:39 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 12:13 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-19 13:31 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 16:14 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-19 21:16 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-20 03:23 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question "raphfrk@gmail.com" <raphfrk@gmail.com> - 2012-01-20 06:46 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-20 08:56 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-01-20 11:12 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-18 17:06 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-01-19 12:46 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question markspace <-@.> - 2012-01-19 13:38 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-18 07:32 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-01-18 00:06 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Knute Johnson <nospam@knutejohnson.com> - 2012-01-18 09:23 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 17:07 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 17:12 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2012-01-19 19:22 -0800
Re: Volatile happens before question Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-01-17 10:24 -0800
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