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Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot

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On 11/15/2011 11:28 PM, Lew wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> Lew wrote:
>>> Why don't the vendors certify for the later Java in anything less than five years?
>>>
>>> It's the same question.  Pushing it back one level doesn't answer it.
>>
>> Usually app server versions and specific JVM versions are tied.
>>
>> It is even in the specs.
>>
>> Java EE 6 spec:
>>
>> This specification requires that containers provide a Java Compatible™
>> runtime environment, as defined by the Java Platform, Standard Edition,
>> v6 specification (Java SE).
>> ...
>
> And?
>
> That says nothing about the vendors or why they lag the specs for so long.  It is a summary of the specs that they might lag.
>
> Mind you, I don't think it's a bad thing to be conservative in platform migration.  I've worked in Enterprise Java for a fair bit and it's no small thing for, say, a government agency that processes 100 million documents in a week to change platforms.  My earlier comment about EOL as a guarantee of stability is not entirely a joke, and certainly not the fictional kind.
>
> It's also no mean feat to implement a Java EE spec in a way that lets such an application work successfully.
>
> All of which raises the question as to why there needs to be an upgraded Java version in the first place.  Maybe the right thing to do is to let a language specification stagnate, at least for rather longer than programmers are used to imagining.  Maybe basing large-scale mission-critical systems on a sessile platform is the wise choice.
>

yeah, different areas have different requirements...

enterprise systems want a very stable platform that hardly ever changes 
(sort of like IBM mainframes...).

more average programmers want something which is reasonably fast and 
reasonably stable, and adds new features here-and-there to keep them 
interested.


and, people who want scripting languages mostly want lots of features 
and for everything to be doable with a minimum of effort, but largely 
forsake both performance and reliability in doing so (typically, any 
parts which need to be stable or reliable are written in C or C++ or 
similar in these contexts, where C++ also adds lots of features, but its 
current complexity is terrible...).

sadly, my scripting language/VM has also been somewhat tending towards 
internal complexity as well (partly as evidenced by a 617 kloc VM, and 
approx 400 opcodes in the present bytecode, albeit a few holes bump the 
current max opcode number up to 540).

some of this complexity might be due to trying to be both very dynamic 
(like JavaScript, on which the language is based), and at the same time 
work fairly close to 1:1 with C code and data. some also due to 
interpreter design shift as well.


or such...

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Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-11 12:55 -0800
  Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-11 16:20 -0800
    Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-11 16:38 -0800
      Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-12 06:36 -0400
        Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-12 09:19 -0500
          Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-12 10:07 -0800
            Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-12 17:09 -0500
            Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-14 06:25 -0400
              Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 06:45 -0800
                Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-11-14 23:28 +0100
                Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-15 20:34 -0500
                Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-15 22:28 -0800
                Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-16 07:43 -0700
                Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot kensi <kensi_kensington@zoonoses.de> - 2011-11-16 12:53 -0500
                Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2011-11-16 12:20 -0600
                Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-16 14:27 -0700
                Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-16 14:04 -0800
                Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-17 10:05 -0700
                Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-16 18:57 -0500
        Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-12 09:23 -0500
    Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-11-13 09:12 -0800
      Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-13 12:39 -0500
        Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-11-13 20:13 +0000
          Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-13 15:43 -0500
            Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-11-13 21:06 +0000
              Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-13 16:16 -0500
        Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2011-11-14 08:03 -0600
          Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-14 06:51 -0800
  Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-11-12 04:53 -0800
  Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-12 14:02 -0800
    Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-12 17:09 -0500
      Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-12 19:14 -0800
        Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-12 20:56 -0700
        Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-13 05:08 -0800
        Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-13 10:08 -0500
          Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-13 08:08 -0800
            Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-13 12:23 -0500
        Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-11-13 09:23 -0800
          Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-11-13 12:27 -0500
          Re: Java 8 Lambda binary snapshot Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-13 11:08 -0800

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