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Re: Holy boop: goto for Java

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On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 07:31:44 +0200, Robert Klemme
<shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:

>On 04.06.2012 23:46, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>> On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:17:21 -0700, Daniel Pitts
>> <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net>  wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/4/12 1:07 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>>> On 12-06-04 04:37 AM, Robert Klemme wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, June 4, 2012 9:28:13 AM UTC+2, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>>>>> What amazes me is that these individuals support this religious stance
>>>>>> by arguing that it improves readability, when producing little auxiliary
>>>>>> methods usually does anything but.
>>
>>       Personally, I find this sort of stuff to be very unreadable.  If
>> it is used multiple times, it is not quite so bad.  If it is used but
>> once, it is a disruption to following the caller.
>
>Hmm, but with that argument you must put everything in one method - what 
>you clearly do not do as your later comments show. :-)

     NO!  Pulling some code out to make it a method that is called
ONLY ONCE is what I object to.  (I might do it if there is
clearly-delineated functionality that could be useful again (but just
happens to be needed but once when it written)).  I will not do it for
some manifesto.

>>       There is also context to consider.  I have sometimes considered
>> moving some short, common code to subroutines to find that by the time
>> I re-established the context in the subroutine, the subroutine's code
>> would be longer than having the code in the caller.
>
>Right.  Or if argument lists get too long that is also a good sign that 
>something is wrong.

     Yes.  I should have included length of calling sequence.

>>       I like my code to tell a story at one level of abstraction.
>
>That's an interesting way to put it.  And it hits the nail on the head.

     I hit on it several years ago.  Many of my programs or large
segments have one story with the rest of the methods/subroutines
supporting it.  A consequence of this is that some of my methods can
get rather long (ones that tell a story).

>> It makes it easier to follow the logic.  The high-level code is all in
>> one sequence.  With this, I can skip the lower-level logic most of the
>> time.  If I need to adjust the higher-level logic, it is a good sign
>> when I do not have to concern myself much with the lower-level logic
>> (because what I came up with for it is still what is needed).
>
>Right!  That discussion nicely shows why it still needs humans to write 
>software: the process of cutting algorithms in parts cannot be easily 
>automated.  One reason for that is that we do not write for machines 
>(which easily cope with the most contrived code as long as it compiles) 
>but rather for humans - namely the one who comes after us and has to fix 
>a bug or add a feature.

     Which is often us so being nice to the maintenance programmer is
being nice to oneself.

     Besides the story paradigm, I also think in terms of program
usefulness.  If a program is not very useful, one can write it pretty
much any way one wants as the program is going to get tossed anyway.
If it is useful, then it is going to stick around, and requirements
have a way of changing so the program had better be maintainable.  It
can also be difficult to tell whether a program will be useful so why
not just write them all clearly?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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Holy boop: goto for Java markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-03 19:36 -0700
  Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-03 20:03 -0700
    Re: Holy boop: goto for Java markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-03 20:30 -0700
      Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-06-03 21:17 -0700
        Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-04 07:56 +0200
        Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-06-04 04:28 -0300
          Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-04 00:37 -0700
            Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-04 07:43 -0700
              Re: Holy boop: goto for Java "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-04 07:47 -0700
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-04 08:17 -0700
            Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-06-04 17:07 -0300
              Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-04 13:17 -0700
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-04 14:46 -0700
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-05 07:31 +0200
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-05 09:15 -0700
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-05 10:51 -0700
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-05 10:54 -0700
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-06-06 05:58 -0300
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-06 12:11 -0700
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-05 23:24 +0200
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-05 17:30 -0400
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-05 20:06 -0700
            Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-07-22 06:37 -0700
              Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Chris Riesbeck <Chris.Riesbeck@gmail.com> - 2012-07-23 13:27 -0500
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-07-23 13:23 -0700
          Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-04 09:33 -0700
        Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-06-04 07:26 -0400
        Re: Holy boop: goto for Java "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-04 07:44 -0700
          Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-04 18:13 +0200
            Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-04 10:23 -0700
              Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-04 10:45 -0700
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-04 20:31 +0200
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-04 11:52 -0700
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-06-04 14:15 -0500
                Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-04 14:52 -0700
          Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-04 10:50 -0700
          Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-04 10:56 -0700
          Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-06-04 13:05 -0500
    Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-06-04 07:28 -0400
  Re: Holy boop: goto for Java Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-03 22:10 -0700

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