Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #15584

Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector

From	Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector
Date	2012-06-25 20:41 +0200
Message-ID	<a4rpnjForkU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <a4hj1sFc30U1@mid.individual.net> <m3zk7ro9sg.fsf@ipa.eternal-september.org> <js9nn1$lba$1@dont-email.me> <slrnjuh6bd.u9l.avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <jsa838$vih$1@dont-email.me>

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On 25.06.2012 19:45, Eric Sosman wrote:
> On 6/25/2012 1:01 PM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote:

>> Maybe slightly more interesting questions:
>> What would be the behaviour of that proposed call,
>> - if "old" *is* still (hard-)referenced from live objects?
>> - if there's still a weak/soft-reference on that object?
>> (pick one: Exception, force(for weak/soft-refs) or ignore?)
>
>      Exactly: The JVM could not simply trust the System.gc(obj)
> call to be telling the truth, because that would open the door
> to all manner of attacks.

Not just attacks but simple errors as well.

>  Therefore the JVM would have to verify
> that obj was unreachable (at whatever strength) before deciding
> to dispose of it.  That is, the JVM would have to run nearly all
> of the garbage collector to determine obj's reachability -- so
> why not just run the ordinary GC in the ordinary way?  I'm at a
> loss to imagine what benefit a System.gc(obj) would offer.

I had exactly this kind of reasoning in mind when I said:

> I once mused about such a thing as well.  If you think a bit longer
> about this then you'll notice that it won't work: these objects still
> have to be visited because they may have references to other objects
> not in the uncollectable space.  You'll probably do not gain much -
> if anything at all.

Thank you for the elaboration, Eric and Andreas!  I think a non uniform 
object memory model (e.g. some GCed, some manually managed) cannot get 
rid of the GC overhead even for the manual kind as long as it is allowed 
to have references between the different kinds of objects.  Disallowing 
that however would make the distinction visible and you end up with a 
language with a non uniform object model.  That would certainly make 
programmers' lives harder instead of easier.

Kind regards

	robert

-- 
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Thread

Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-15 17:33 -0500
  Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-15 15:55 -0700
    Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-15 18:12 -0500
      Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-15 16:31 -0700
        Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-15 20:00 -0500
        Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-16 14:39 +0200
          Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-16 12:13 -0700
      Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-16 00:57 -0700
  Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-15 15:57 -0700
    Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-15 18:12 -0500
  Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-15 20:19 -0400
    Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-15 19:59 -0500
      Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-15 21:37 -0400
        Controlling the Garbage Collector "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-16 11:51 -0500
          Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-16 14:24 -0400
            Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-16 12:24 -0700
              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-06-16 13:14 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-16 16:35 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-16 19:43 -0500
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-23 13:36 +0200
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-23 15:39 +0200
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-16 14:34 -0700
          Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-18 04:32 -0700
            Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-24 14:31 -0700
          Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-20 21:19 -0400
            Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-21 13:24 -0500
              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-21 11:37 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Fred Greer <fggreer@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-21 21:20 +0000
              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-21 15:24 -0400
              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-21 23:46 +0200
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Jukka Lahtinen <jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> - 2012-06-25 15:28 +0300
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-25 09:05 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-25 17:01 +0000
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-25 13:45 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-25 13:49 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-25 20:41 +0200
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-26 12:25 +0000
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-26 06:46 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-26 16:26 +0000
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-26 13:07 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-26 22:28 +0200
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-26 23:49 +0000
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 18:20 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Highway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 21:52 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-26 20:01 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Highway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 23:23 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-27 09:05 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-06-27 20:15 +0000
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-27 13:52 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 13:41 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-27 19:02 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-06-28 21:45 +0000
                Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-28 15:16 -0700
                Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector) Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-06-29 02:10 +0000
                Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-28 19:57 -0700
                Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-29 04:06 +0000
                Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2012-06-29 08:35 -0400
                Re: [OT] Driver's license restrictions (Was: Controlling the Garbage Collector) Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2012-06-29 08:33 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Tim Slattery <Slattery_T@bls.gov> - 2012-06-29 08:30 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-06-29 23:04 +0000
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Highway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 16:53 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-06-27 11:32 -0500
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Highway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 16:54 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 11:45 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Highway to Hell <HtH49439112@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 16:55 -0400
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 02:06 +0000
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-27 16:34 +0000
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-06-27 11:45 -0500
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-02 11:21 +0200
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 13:52 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2012-06-26 23:40 +0000
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 16:48 -0700
              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-21 15:15 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-21 15:33 -0700
                Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2012-06-21 21:24 -0500
              Re: Controlling the Garbage Collector markspace <-@.> - 2012-06-21 15:23 -0700
        Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-17 15:49 +0200
    Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-16 01:00 -0700
      Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-16 01:04 -0700
  Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-16 04:03 +0200
  Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2012-06-15 22:27 -0700
    Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-16 14:39 +0200
      Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2012-06-18 19:37 -0700
        Re: Recommendations for Lightweight Threading? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-06-19 07:46 -0700

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