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Groups > comp.lang.java.help > #2194

Re: Please recommend a book

Subject Re: Please recommend a book
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.help
References <k6m3ti$n58$1@dont-email.me>
From bobwhite@mixnym.net
Message-ID <uauyrnthsg.gvjmts@mixnym.net> (permalink)
Date 2012-10-29 19:09 +0000
Organization mail2news@dizum.com

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> On 29/10/2012 7:07 AM, bobwhite@mixnym.net wrote:
> >> On 26/10/2012 12:32 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 14:54:53 -0000, bobwhite@mixnym.net wrote, quoted
> >>> or indirectly quoted someone who said :
> >>>
> >>>> I'm lost with
> >>>> all the imports
> >>>
> >>> get an IDE that computes and maintains them for you automatically. See
> >>> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html
> >>>
> >>
> >> It seemed to me his problem was understanding something that depends on
> >> a gazillion imports, not managing the imports themselves.
> >
> > Correct, thanks for reminding them! And more to the point, how to get a
> > handle on this since Java is my first foray into a serious OO language.
> 
> OK; it seems to me that if this thread is to help you we (or at least I) 
> need to understand how the large APIs you're used to manage to avoid 
> "zillions of imports"

Monolithic APIs may be big but they're only one layer. That's really it,
they're not OO APIs. It's easy because I don't have to understand any
hierarchy because there isn't one. Clumsy but simple!

> 
> On 26/10/2012 10:54 AM, bobwhite@mixnym.net wrote:
>  > I am used to very large APIs I don't that's it. I think one of
>  > the problems is the layering of things in Java and OO that I'm
>  > not used to. The APIs I'm using are self contained and don't
>  > build on other interfaces. I'm lost with all the imports and
>  > what you need to get this or that class that depends on
>  > zillions of other classes, or why they're needed. In my work
>  > all I need to do is pull in the right API and it doesn't need
>  > anything else. This is a big change in thinking.
> 
> This seems like the right comment to focus on for me to understand your 
> problem. What kind of "large self-contained API" are you talking about? 

Imagine libc or syscalls. It's not it, but it's as close as I can come since
I am working on a proprietary platform that is not widely known.

> Can you give an example? For example, is it "large" in that it contains 
> very many methods or procedures, but those procedures take only 
> parameters of simple types like arrays and scalars?

I think that's a good way to describe it. It has many different functions
you can call but those functions take structures as arguments. 

> If so your problem isn't so much O-O specifically as the more basic idea
> of abstract data types.

I don't think that's true because I'm familiar with abstract data types. My
confusion starts when I say gee let me read a string from the keyboard. Now
where do I go from there? I look at the Java API doc and try to find
something that looks like console IO. Ok, I see a function there, but now
how do I use it? I have to set up exception handling before I can do that!
How do I do that? And it goes downhill from there.

>  > And I don't think I understand how to read the API doc. I wish
>  > there were a guide to this specific issue.
> 
> Hmm. Well, I rarely read an API description before I read the tutorial 
> associated with the API (or at least the tutorial for whatever 
> higher-level concepts use the APIs). So I usually have a pretty good 
> mental framework into which to plug the details. Perhaps this ties back 
> into other things you said about why the tutorials weren't particularly 
> helpful for you?

It may be a chicken and egg thing that I just have to push through somehow.
























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Thread

Please recommend a book bobwhite@mixnym.net - 2012-10-25 14:50 +0000
  Re: Please recommend a book Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2012-10-25 17:44 +0100
  Re: Please recommend a book markspace <-@.> - 2012-10-25 09:50 -0700
    Re: Please recommend a book bobwhite@mixnym.net - 2012-10-26 14:54 +0000
      Re: Please recommend a book "Charles Hottel" <chottel@earthlink.net> - 2012-10-26 11:14 -0400
      Re: Please recommend a book Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-10-26 09:32 -0700
        Re: Please recommend a book David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-10-26 17:17 -0400
          Re: Please recommend a book Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-26 15:04 -0700
          Re: Please recommend a book bobwhite@mixnym.net - 2012-10-28 22:05 +0000
          Re: Please recommend a book bobwhite@mixnym.net - 2012-10-29 11:07 +0000
            Re: Please recommend a book David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2012-10-29 10:30 -0400
              Re: Please recommend a book bobwhite@mixnym.net - 2012-10-29 19:09 +0000
                Re: Please recommend a book Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-29 12:38 -0700
                Re: Please recommend a book Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-29 13:42 -0700
                Re: Please recommend a book markspace <-@.> - 2012-10-29 15:29 -0700
                Re: Please recommend a book Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-10-31 07:28 -0700
                Re: Please recommend a book bobwhite@mixnym.net - 2012-11-03 20:37 +0000
                Re: Please recommend a book Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-11-03 16:22 -0700
                Re: Please recommend a book markspace <-@.> - 2012-11-03 20:42 -0700
                Re: Please recommend a book bobwhite@mixnym.net - 2012-11-04 14:40 +0000
                Re: Please recommend a book Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-11-04 20:27 -0800
  Re: Please recommend a book Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-10-26 09:24 -0700
  Re: Please recommend a book Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-10-26 09:31 -0700
  Re: Please recommend a book Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-27 06:19 -0700
    Re: Please recommend a book bobwhite@mixnym.net - 2012-10-28 21:05 +0000
    Re: Please recommend a book bobwhite@mixnym.net - 2012-10-29 12:08 +0000
  Re: Please recommend a book Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-28 19:09 -0400
    Re: Please recommend a book bobwhite@mixnym.net - 2012-11-01 14:25 +0000
      Re: Please recommend a book Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-01 13:47 -0400

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