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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #23175 > unrolled thread
| Started by | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-06-04 18:14 +0000 |
| Last post | 2013-07-22 09:47 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 169 — 23 participants |
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jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-04 18:14 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-04 11:28 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-06 15:37 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-06 13:49 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-06-07 12:32 +1000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-07 14:36 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-07 08:39 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-07 17:04 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-07 11:19 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-06-07 17:24 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-07 23:04 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-11 14:59 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-06-11 16:09 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-12 08:08 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-06-12 13:52 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-12 14:17 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-13 08:24 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-12 14:18 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-06-12 15:05 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-13 01:40 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-13 08:55 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-12 21:05 -1000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-13 10:49 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-13 08:55 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-13 14:33 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-13 13:14 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-06-13 18:33 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-14 01:25 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 12:00 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-15 14:35 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 19:29 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-17 03:31 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 19:16 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:58 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-11 18:32 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-11 10:33 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-06-11 20:42 +0100
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-12 00:20 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-12 01:29 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-12 19:52 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-12 14:19 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-13 08:47 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-13 07:45 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-13 13:04 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-14 21:32 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-17 17:15 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-20 09:42 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-19 21:52 -1000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-16 10:01 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-16 14:14 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-16 23:58 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-16 23:17 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-17 16:00 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-17 08:05 -1000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-17 19:33 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Gerry Jackson <spam@qlikz.org> - 2013-06-17 21:23 +0100
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-12 22:58 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-12 20:48 -1000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 12:05 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-13 10:39 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-11 18:44 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-12 15:16 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-15 12:54 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-15 11:05 -1000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-15 14:21 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-15 23:06 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-15 14:56 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-16 00:33 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-15 16:47 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-16 09:45 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-17 16:19 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-06-17 11:51 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-18 00:31 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-18 00:33 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-18 00:46 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-18 04:11 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-18 23:51 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-19 04:32 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-19 02:42 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-19 12:08 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-19 09:25 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-19 19:10 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-20 17:08 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-19 09:04 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-19 09:26 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-07 16:45 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-06-06 23:29 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-07 14:41 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-06-07 17:24 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-07 23:07 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-08 01:26 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-07 17:54 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-19 10:01 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-08 07:29 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge mhx@iae.nl - 2013-06-07 23:17 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge mhx@iae.nl - 2013-06-08 01:30 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-07 23:41 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-08 09:35 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-08 14:28 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-08 21:22 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-19 10:06 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-19 12:27 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-19 10:44 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-07-05 07:41 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-05 14:45 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-05 09:58 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 02:06 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-11 18:36 -1000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 17:36 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-12 07:59 -1000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-12 11:23 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-07-12 21:10 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-13 06:19 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-06-08 21:55 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-06-11 14:09 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-08 07:49 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-08 07:47 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-08 00:59 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-06-08 16:40 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-13 01:24 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-07 00:37 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-06-07 00:53 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-07 14:49 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-06-11 14:13 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-12 14:21 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 23:22 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-06-15 21:26 -1000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-06-16 12:58 -0700
OT Making fun of gavino. was Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-06-19 10:52 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Carsten Strotmann <cas@strotmann.de> - 2013-07-11 22:38 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-11 14:08 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 01:53 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-11 23:49 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 12:24 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Hannu Vuolasaho <hannu.vuolasaho@nospam.tut.fi.invalid> - 2013-07-12 12:29 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 01:42 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-11 19:42 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 02:56 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-11 20:16 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-12 03:14 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-12 00:35 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-12 04:02 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-07-12 09:08 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-13 06:16 -0400
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-12 03:02 -0500
yourforth : progress report albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-01 11:00 +0000
Re: yourforth : progress report "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2013-08-01 08:13 -0400
Re: yourforth : progress report m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-08-01 07:22 -0700
Re: yourforth : progress report albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-01 19:20 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-07-12 06:10 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 12:37 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-07-12 12:56 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 13:55 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-07-12 14:22 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-07-12 14:30 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-12 11:12 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 19:01 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-12 23:05 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-18 19:38 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-12 00:10 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-12 16:55 +0000
jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-18 19:18 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-18 11:18 -1000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-18 23:23 +0200
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-07-19 00:47 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-07-19 00:54 -0700
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-19 09:50 +0000
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-19 05:24 -0500
Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-22 09:47 +0000
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| From | Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-07 00:37 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <37cdeb58-1e3d-45fd-b05c-25040e6a0600@l5g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #23175 |
On Jun 4, 7:14 pm, alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) wrote: > Remember we discussed jonesforth at the German convention? > I take up the challenge to make a similar forth. > > What do we want? The enticement of jonesforth but > - ISO compatibility (for all words with an ISO name that is) > - no words in assembler if Forth is feasible > - one file, Forth coded in assembler > > The last two points are related, jonesforth has a startup library > in Forth: > > cat jonesforth.f - | jonesforth > > But this means a whole working interpreter must be present and be > coded in assembler. This I don't like at all. > > Part of the enticement of jonesforth is its introduction. > > I cannot totally agree with it. Here are my proposed changes. > > jones: > FORTH is one of those alien languages which most working > programmers regard in the same way as Haskell, LISP, and so > on. Something so strange that they'd rather any thoughts of it > just go away so they can get on with writing this paying code. > But that's wrong and if you care at all about programming then > you should at least understand all these languages, even if > you will never use them. > > horst: > FORTH is one of those alien languages which most working > programmers regard in the same way as Haskell, LISP, and so > on. Something so strange that they'd rather any thoughts of it > just go away so they can get on with writing this paying code. > But that's wrong and if you care at all about programming then > you should at understand at least a bit about other languages > than the ubiquitous c, Java or Python. > > jones: > LISP is the ultimate high-level language, and features from > LISP are being added every decade to the more common > languages. But FORTH is in some ways the ultimate in low level > programming. Out of the box it lacks features like dynamic > memory management and even strings. In fact, at its primitive > level it lacks even basic concepts like IF-statements and > loops. > > horst: > ~ LISP is the ultimate lanugages, with unlimited flexibility as > ~ long as you're prepared to use round brackets. Forth rivals > that flexibility, as long as you're prepared to separate your > words with spaces. Forth is the ultimate do-it-yourself > language. Even basic concepts like IF-statements and loops > are molded to you liking. Things like dynamic memory > management are an add on. Out of the box it lacks almost > everything. > > jones: > Why then would you want to learn FORTH? There are several very > good reasons. First and foremost, FORTH is minimal. You really > can write a complete FORTH in, say, 2000 lines of code. I > don't just mean a FORTH program, I mean a complete FORTH > operating system, environment and language. You could boot > such a FORTH on a bare PC and it would come up with a prompt > where you could start doing useful work. The FORTH you have > here isn't minimal and uses a Linux process as its 'base PC' > (both for the purposes of making it a good tutorial). It's > possible to completely understand the system. Who can say they > completely understand how Linux works, or gcc? > > horst: > Why then would you want to learn FORTH? There are several very > good reasons. First and foremost, there is a bright side to > this minimality. Not counting the comment lines you can have > a complete FORTH in 768 lines of code. I don't just mean a > FORTH program, I mean a complete FORTH operating system, > environment and language. You could boot such a FORTH on a > bare PC and it would come up with a prompt where you could > start doing useful work. The FORTH you have here is equally > minimal, as long as you take for granted the Linux environment > where it lives. (requiring you to use a bare pc would not make > for a good tutorial) It's possible to completely understand > the system. Who can say they completely understand how Linux > works, or gcc? > > Comments welcome. Trying to make a working jonesforth look alike > today. The text will be more work, I presume. > > Groetjes Albert > -- > Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS > Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. > albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=nhttp://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst > > I'd be interested in seeing this. I could help out with English documentation if required. I remember that Ting did a lot of work (for years?) on distilling his Forths down to the very minimum of code words, and having the vast majority of his Forth systems written in Forth. Was that eForth? I think it was. Can't remember now.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-07 00:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xppvy1hnc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #23254 |
Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> writes: > I remember that Ting did a lot of work (for years?) on distilling his > Forths down to the very minimum of code words, and having the vast > majority of his Forth systems written in Forth. Was that eForth? I > think it was. Can't remember now. Ting was involved with FigForth and eForth as I understand it. In both cases the original versions were metacompiled, and Ting's versions were released as assembler programs, on the theory that they were easier to bootstrap that way. Jeff Fox takes Dr. Ting to ask for this, sonewhere on his (Jeff's) web site. Jeff liked metacompilers.
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-07 14:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51b1f313$0$6358$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #23254 |
In article <37cdeb58-1e3d-45fd-b05c-25040e6a0600@l5g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: <SNIP> >> >> > >I'd be interested in seeing this. I could help out with English >documentation if required. Thanks, I'll take you up on that. Currently I have reduced the generic lina system (12000) lines to about 6000, all the time passing the lina regression test as well as the Hayes test. (Rid of blocks, user variables, to do: doubles and the likes of ." .( [CHAR] ) But of the literate programming of jones almost nothing has been paraphrased. > >I remember that Ting did a lot of work (for years?) on distilling his >Forths down to the very minimum of code words, and having the vast >majority of his Forth systems written in Forth. Was that eForth? I >think it was. Can't remember now. Tings starting point was easy portability. Jones/albert's starting point is understandability, if must be at the expense of usability. As I have explained in other posts, assembler may well be better understandable than Forth. So for each word I have to make a decision as Ting did, and none of his decisions I could take for granted. My starting point is my own ciforth and for good reason. Jones took ciforth as a starting point himself, because it was nearest the simplicity goal. Groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-11 14:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <kp7bak$vs9$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #23275 |
On 2013-06-07, Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote: > Currently I have reduced the generic lina system (12000) lines to about > 6000, all the time passing the lina regression test as well as the Hayes test. > (Rid of blocks, user variables, to do: doubles and the likes of ." .( [CHAR] ) > But of the literate programming of jones almost nothing has been paraphrased. > >> >>I remember that Ting did a lot of work (for years?) on distilling his >>Forths down to the very minimum of code words, and having the vast >>majority of his Forth systems written in Forth. Was that eForth? I >>think it was. Can't remember now. > > Tings starting point was easy portability. Jones/albert's starting point is > understandability, if must be at the expense of usability. > As I have explained in other posts, assembler may well be better understandable > than Forth. > So for each word I have to make a decision as Ting did, and none of his > decisions I could take for granted. > My starting point is my own ciforth and for good reason. Jones took ciforth > as a starting point himself, because it was nearest the simplicity goal. > > Groetjes Albert I agree with this and would love to see something updated to a standard Forth. I tried Jones a few years ago and the first Forth word I tried using with it didn't work but it did on other Forths I had so I gave up on Jones. The ideas and explanations in Jones would help a lot of people get started but as you said it seems to be a wolf in sheeps clothing and once you do get it built it's not actually standard Forth and wouldn't be something you could use from then on. Please keep on with this project! Thanks, Bill
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-12 14:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51b883ee$0$6073$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #23175 |
In article <51ae2e6d$0$26867$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl>,
Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Remember we discussed jonesforth at the German convention?
>I take up the challenge to make a similar forth.
<SNIP>
Some progress has been made.
This is a snippet from my logboek 2013 jun 12
The lina/jones Forth is a decendant of my ci86.gnr, i.e.
it contains documentation and tests. jones.cfg is a configuration
file like lina64.cfg and directs the generation of an assembler file.
I'm down to 260 words among them 68 code words, and 5000 commented lines.
I kept the tests up to date such that the lina/jones now passes three
tests:
1. Hayes, with a preambule
2. single precision Hayes
3. tests generated from ci86.gnr by the build system.
I've removed the booting, windows, windows dpmi, mSDOS, OSX
conditional code from ci86.gnr, and with additional trimming
it is down to less than 5000 lines. This includes a reference
manual, the white box tests and none of jones-like educational material.
The preambule test guarantees that lina/jones can be expanded
to a fairly good ISO Forth, at least to the point that someone
using it that way, doesn't develop bad habits.
(Well, using string denotations ( "AAP" instead of S" AAP" C" AAP"
." AAP" .( AAP) may be considered a bad habit. Then put
'" HIDDEN
in the preambule. Attention to this is drawn in a separate document
about "I like Forth, now what?".)
I've made a single precision Hayes test, to replace the Hayes
test. This test must be passed with no preambules.
This test driven development pays off. Some really small changes
triggered large test failings. I've 26 versions that all pass
the tests stored with them.
The great advantage of this approach is that I've something that
works, even if I stop right now.
In the educational section:
The only multiplication words are UM* and UM/MOD and probably SM/REM.
These are the only things involving doubles, and the
only reason is to be able to input and output unsigned singles.
The <# formatting is replaced by <% single formatting.
This is a pretty full Forth still. With a small preambule
it passes the Hayes test. I'm not sure whether I'll keep this
up. This requires keeping some nasty multiplication assembler
in the kernel as the preambule is in Forth.
The following words are candidates for removal from version 6.26.
Prefixes: A B C D E F
Normal: 2! 2@ D+ C/L VOC-LINK U< ?DUP 1+ BODY> (;) (;CODE)
COUNT ." .( ERASE (FIND) [COMPILE] POSTPONE M* SM/REM
XOS5 CREATE-FILE DELETE-FILE REPOSITION-FILE KEY KEY?
TERMIO SET-TERM ?
Looping: DO LOOP +LOOP I J
The following control stuff is never used in the kernel
and could be had via INCLUDE, or EVALUATE of a large
string.
(BACK BACK) (FORWARD FORWARD) BEGIN THEN UNTIL AGAIN
REPEAT IF ELSE WHILE
DOES>
A SAVE-SYSTEM in an included facility would convince the
reader that even if lina/jones is a toy, a Forth based on
similar principles is not.
linajones has the elegant small interpreter with one loop-construct
and one if-then-else construct.
Albert
>--
>Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
>Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
>albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
>
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 23:22 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <a4060ed5-37be-41fe-b9a8-84c565371ec3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #23175 |
let me know when iso can boot a pc into a gui desktop adn run firefox or something equivalent so I can chat surf and check mail
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 21:26 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <cpqdnWxlEuYQ9SDMnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #23672 |
On 6/15/13 8:22 PM, the_gavino_himself wrote: > let me know when iso can boot a pc into a gui desktop adn run firefox or something equivalent so I can chat surf and check mail > Don't hold your breath. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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| From | Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-16 12:58 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <90eb2553-cd0d-4886-8d2a-9a3419ce6673@c3g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #23674 |
On Jun 16, 12:26 am, "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erat...@forth.com> wrote: > On 6/15/13 8:22 PM, the_gavino_himself wrote: > > > let me know when iso can boot a pc into a gui desktop adn run firefox or something equivalent so I can chat surf and check mail > > Don't hold your breath. > I'd recommend he did. > Cheers, > Elizabeth > > -- > ================================================== > Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH > FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 > 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 > Los Angeles, CA 90045http://www.forth.com > > "Forth-based products and Services for real-time > applications since 1973." > ==================================================
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-19 10:52 +0000 |
| Subject | OT Making fun of gavino. was Re: jonesforth: taking up the challenge |
| Message-ID | <51c18d88$0$6068$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #23674 |
In article <cpqdnWxlEuYQ9SDMnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@supernews.com>, Elizabeth D. Rather <erather@forth.com> wrote: >On 6/15/13 8:22 PM, the_gavino_himself wrote: >> let me know when iso can boot a pc into a gui desktop adn run firefox >or something equivalent so I can chat surf and check mail >> > >Don't hold your breath. I met iso the other day. I know she's capable of booting a pc, but it'll take here a few months. Currently she's making 6000 Euro's a month. Now if gavino can top that I'll give him her phone number. ;-) > >Cheers, >Elizabeth Groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | Carsten Strotmann <cas@strotmann.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-11 22:38 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <87y59cn86j.fsf@csgate4.strotmann.de> |
| In reply to | #23175 |
albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes: > Remember we discussed jonesforth at the German convention? > I take up the challenge to make a similar forth. > > What do we want? The enticement of jonesforth but > - ISO compatibility (for all words with an ISO name that is) > - no words in assembler if Forth is feasible > - one file, Forth coded in assembler > sorry for coming late to the party, I started this discussion during the german Forth meeting in April. I was busy working in May and June, so I couldn't follow c.l.f., including this discussion. The slides and a video is available at <http://forth-ev.de/wiki/doku.php/events:tagung-2013> (but all in german language) I presented my observations during the meeting: * there are a number of good forth systems for "beginners" available today (4e4th, amForth ...) * there is no simple, modern, easy to learn "model" for implementing a Forth system * JonesForth is used as such as "model" today, but it has flaws * open question: is a better "model" Forth for implementation needed? in the discussion we had pro- and con arguments, similar to the arguments presented here. The result of the discussion was to organize a meeting in the 2nd half of 2013 to work on the topic. The meeting will be held @ LinuxHotel in Essen/Germany (www.linuxhotel.de) in October or November 2013. I will send an invitation out to the members of the german Forth group and to this newsgroup (c.l.f) later in July. We probably can organize remote participation using Jabber (Audio/Video) for anyone that is interested but cannot travel to Essen/Germany. The preliminary agenda for the weekend is (open for discussion): * Friday evening: defining the goal * Saturday: coding * Sunday: documentation work My personal ideas/goals are: * a simple but modern forth system and model * small enough to grasp in one day (for an average developer that has some knowledge on assembly) * runs on real hardware/OS * can be extended into a "complete" Forth system (for any level of "complete") * a pure assembly listing and a meta-compiled forth source code that produce the same binary * assembly listings and implementations for many architectures (ARM, X86_64, MIPS, OpenRISC, 6502, Z80, AVR ...) possible (the model should not restrict the implementation) -- Carsten
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-11 14:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xfvvkls8z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #24406 |
Carsten Strotmann <cas@strotmann.de> writes: > * there is no simple, modern, easy to learn "model" for implementing a > Forth system > * JonesForth is used as such as "model" today, but it has flaws I think non-Forth-based implementations like JSForth should be included in the mix of ideas taken into consideration. Retroforth may also be worth looking at, though it is non-ANS.
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-12 01:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51df61a6$0$6330$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #24407 |
In article <7xfvvkls8z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: >Carsten Strotmann <cas@strotmann.de> writes: >> * there is no simple, modern, easy to learn "model" for implementing a >> Forth system >> * JonesForth is used as such as "model" today, but it has flaws > >I think non-Forth-based implementations like JSForth should be included >in the mix of ideas taken into consideration. Retroforth may also be >worth looking at, though it is non-ANS. If your goal is to compete with JSForth you must abandon the idea of a true ISO-Forth. One must go no further than having no gratitious deviations. A key decision for example is to leave out all double precision stuff. Otherwise one gets bogged down in difficult implementations ( >NUMBER ech! ) and explanations that go back to the snake and the original sin. They make no sense especially on 64 bit systems. Groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-11 23:49 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4efeb1f4-0c8c-4a68-a095-7694ba7741c6@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #24410 |
On Friday, July 12, 2013 3:53:42 AM UTC+2, Albert van der Horst wrote: [..] > A key decision for example is to leave out all double > precision stuff. [..] My advice is to a) Religiously Adhere to the Standard, b) Don't leave anything out c) Do Not Use Tricks d) Compactness over speed e) Documentation chained to code (compile it in) f) Religiously Adhere to the Standard, g) Religiously Adhere to the Standard, And finally, religiously adhere to the standard. -marcel
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-12 12:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51dff582$0$591$e4fe514c@dreader34.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #24418 |
In article <4efeb1f4-0c8c-4a68-a095-7694ba7741c6@googlegroups.com>, <m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl> wrote: >On Friday, July 12, 2013 3:53:42 AM UTC+2, Albert van der Horst wrote: >[..] >> A key decision for example is to leave out all double >> precision stuff. >[..] >My advice is to >a) Religiously Adhere to the Standard, >b) Don't leave anything out >c) Do Not Use Tricks >d) Compactness over speed >e) Documentation chained to code (compile it in) >f) Religiously Adhere to the Standard, >g) Religiously Adhere to the Standard, > >And finally, religiously adhere to the standard. Apparently you're writing an other Forth than me. > >-marcel -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | Hannu Vuolasaho <hannu.vuolasaho@nospam.tut.fi.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-12 12:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnktvtle.1tu.hannu.vuolasaho@haikara.cs.tut.fi> |
| In reply to | #24407 |
On 2013-07-11, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: > Carsten Strotmann <cas@strotmann.de> writes: >> * there is no simple, modern, easy to learn "model" for implementing a >> Forth system >> * JonesForth is used as such as "model" today, but it has flaws > > I think non-Forth-based implementations like JSForth should be included > in the mix of ideas taken into consideration. Retroforth may also be > worth looking at, though it is non-ANS. This might be another project but Qt has ecma-scripting support. So it is JS without DOM. And as Qt runs everywhere, that might be good platform for making UIForth. Forth which makes user interface creation and graphical programming easy, fun and maybe even takes Forth out of margin if done properly. However, everyone who has read forth.js knows how badly ecma-script works for being platform to build forth. Best regards, Hannu Vuolasaho
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-12 01:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51df5f0c$0$6330$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #24406 |
In article <87y59cn86j.fsf@csgate4.strotmann.de>,
Carsten Strotmann <cas@strotmann.de> wrote:
>
>albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
>
>> Remember we discussed jonesforth at the German convention?
>> I take up the challenge to make a similar forth.
>>
>> What do we want? The enticement of jonesforth but
>> - ISO compatibility (for all words with an ISO name that is)
>> - no words in assembler if Forth is feasible
>> - one file, Forth coded in assembler
>>
>
>sorry for coming late to the party, I started this discussion during
>the german Forth meeting in April. I was busy working in May and June,
>so I couldn't follow c.l.f., including this discussion.
>
>The slides and a video is available at
><http://forth-ev.de/wiki/doku.php/events:tagung-2013>
>(but all in german language)
>
>I presented my observations during the meeting:
>
>* there are a number of good forth systems for "beginners" available
> today (4e4th, amForth ...)
>
>* there is no simple, modern, easy to learn "model" for implementing a
> Forth system
>
>* JonesForth is used as such as "model" today, but it has flaws
I've bluntly choosen a simplified version of the
the ciforth model of with the CDFLN headers and
with a slightly simplified interpreter with 5 instruction:
call return branch ?branch lit
and of course the prefix implementation of numbers
Based upon that I've reviewed all words in lina and scrapped all that
can be missed.
I've also a name for it: yourforth.
I've 4 files now that are proposed as a starting point:
one assembler file, with no comment at all for now
one glossary in html, cross referenced
one regression test
a readme.txt
I plan to put them on bitbucket such that everybody can contribute.
I'm stuck with an m4 error now, but with that fixed we'll have pdf
and info, both equally incomplete, overcomplete and incorrect as the html.
What I'm content with:
the choice of fasm
the model
the choice of the words, and their names.
the lowercasing of all assembly code
the translation convention of Forth names
( 0BRANCH --> zero_branch $@ -> string_fetch)
the implementation of the words
the use of macros, limited, but very useful
What is still wrong:
some words must be rewitten in assembler (to be consistent)
the regression test is basically still hayes, with an iso compatibility
layer that has to go
the order of the presentation of the words must be adapted to the literate
programming
the DO LOOP family : it is a sore. On one hand they are useful, but
any implementation is a mess, and can't be presented in a half decent
educational way.
What is missing:
the whole literate programming shebang.
The literate programming promises to be the most work, although I've easily spent
10 man-days till now and only pondered about l.p. aspects.
I've the idea to add a set of exercises, which would lift it above the
jones effort. Quite some of them have been formulated.
>
>* open question: is a better "model" Forth for implementation needed?
I've thought about and choosen what I think is the ideal model for
educational purposes. I don't think there is an "ideal model full stop".
I'm going for transparency and simplicity.
The level of completeness is such that with the speed of modern systems, we'll have
quite a usable system with .S WORDS and INCLUDE CREATE/DOES> string denotation,
but no wordlists.
>
>in the discussion we had pro- and con arguments, similar to the
>arguments presented here.
>
>The result of the discussion was to organize a meeting in the 2nd half
>of 2013 to work on the topic.
>
>The meeting will be held @ LinuxHotel in Essen/Germany
>(www.linuxhotel.de) in October or November 2013. I will send an
>invitation out to the members of the german Forth group and to this
>newsgroup (c.l.f) later in July.
>
>We probably can organize remote participation using Jabber (Audio/Video)
>for anyone that is interested but cannot travel to Essen/Germany.
>
>The preliminary agenda for the weekend is (open for discussion):
>
>* Friday evening: defining the goal
>* Saturday: coding
>* Sunday: documentation work
This is optimistic. In my experience there are very many small decisions
to be made. I see endless debates.
>
>My personal ideas/goals are:
>
>* a simple but modern forth system and model
You mean like "fully integrated into Eclipse" ?
>* small enough to grasp in one day (for an average developer that has
> some knowledge on assembly)
>* runs on real hardware/OS
>* can be extended into a "complete" Forth system (for any level of
> "complete")
I've kept notes and turned it into an overview of where one would
have to change things in order to use a "Forth for grown ups".
So my perspective is that one has to switch at a certain point.
>* a pure assembly listing and a meta-compiled forth source code that
> produce the same binary
Hmmm.
>* assembly listings and implementations for many architectures (ARM,
> X86_64, MIPS, OpenRISC, 6502, Z80, AVR ...) possible (the model should
> not restrict the implementation)
Very nice, but the first educational effort must be like jonesforth,
brutally concrete and single minded. There is but One True Operating System
Linux and fasm is Its Tool. Death to the infidels! (Oops.)
(The ciforth model has already proven to port well, That said the
May I add:
* It must be an example of good Forth practices, and they must be well
introduced, in particular create/does> that is missing from jonesforth.
>
>-- Carsten
Groetjes Albert
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-11 19:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xtxk0cxd5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #24411 |
albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes: > There is but One True Operating System Linux and fasm is Its Tool. Eventually I think it will be very helpful to have it run on ARM processors rather than only the legacy x86.
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-12 02:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51df7078$0$6331$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #24413 |
In article <7xtxk0cxd5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: >albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes: >> There is but One True Operating System Linux and fasm is Its Tool. > >Eventually I think it will be very helpful to have it run on ARM >processors rather than only the legacy x86. Of course. All in due time. And it'll help if the implementor is equally single minded about it. You know that it is already a college assignment to port jonesforth to ARM? Groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-11 20:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xr4f48o34.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #24414 |
albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes: > You know that it is already a college assignment to port jonesforth to ARM? No I wasn't aware of this. Cool.
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| From | "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> |
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| Date | 2013-07-12 03:14 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <kroa43$180$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #24415 |
"Paul Rubin" <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:7xr4f48o34.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com... > albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes: > > You know that it is already a college assignment > > to port jonesforth to ARM? > > No I wasn't aware of this. Cool. This has nothing to do with Forth. The purpose of that assignment, depending on your perspective, is either 1) teach students how much more work they'll have to do when coding with simple RISC instructions on ARM instead of coding using the powerful CISC instructions of x86 or 2) teach students how much more work they have to do to break down powerful CISC instructions on x86 into many more rudimentary RISC instructions when porting to ARM After 30 years, did one Computer Science teacher in the entire world finally get the message that RISC is not the best design? RP
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