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Re: What is Forth?

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Andrew Haley wrote:
> [1] Paraphrased from Tao Te Ching, Chapter 48
> 
> In the Stephen Mitchell version,
> 
> In pursuit of knowledge,
> every day something is added.
> In the practice of the Tao,
> every day something is dropped.

I had to look this up, because I really don't like these translations.  
You can not read these old Chinese texts without knowing the phrases, 
and you can not translate them without using corresponding phrases in 
the target language, which, all the sudden, make them much more 
readable.  The whole paragraph 48 of the DaoDeJing is:

為學日益，為道日損。
損之又損，以至於無為。
無為而無不為。
取天下常以無事，及其有事，不足以取天下。

The paraphrase is of the first sentence only.  My translation would be:

"As student, you grow¹ every day, as Taoist, you diminish² every day.
Until there's nothing left, so that you let matters take their course.
Do not interfere, neither to one or the other side.
Conquering the world happens by accident, if you try to do it on 
purpose, it will not happen."

¹) apparently, it is assumed to be knowledge that grows, but as most 
people study during their youth, it's really everything that grows.
²) it is not clear what diminishes; in general, it's assumed to be 
everything, too.  As people usually become Taoists when they are old, 
this is also true.

This is a core part of Taoism, and in very clear and obvious opposition 
of Confucianism, which tries to teach students a hell lot of things so 
that they can become officials or even ministers, and rule the world 
through thoughtful actions and perfect plans.  Taoism in this respect 
has a nihilist approach, and assumes that all the struggle is in vein.  
It is the ideal religion for someone who went through the confucianist 
treadmill, and as result of burn-out or midlife crisis was thrown out.

This is all written for people who govern the country, so e.g. instead 
of having mercantilistic econonics, you have free markets, where matters 
take their course without interference.  Let society be liberal.  Taoism 
clearly takes an extreme point of view, perhaps the other side is 
legalism, not Confucianism, which always tries to be in the middle.

Chinese philosophy never goes into such extreme positions, so the actual 
interpretation of DaoDeJing 48 is that true mastership is not a big 
stack of books you follow, but effortless ease to achieve things.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Re: What is Forth? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-23 04:10 -0500
  Re: What is Forth? "P.M.Lawrence" <pml540114@gmail.com> - 2012-03-23 06:15 -0700
  Re: What is Forth? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-26 02:59 +0200
    Re: What is Forth? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-04-06 12:42 +0300

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