Re: 0 SET-ORDER why?

Date	2024-06-26 18:50 +1000
Subject	Re: 0 SET-ORDER why?
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
References	<v5fjkr$1p13i$1@dont-email.me> <2024Jun26.094910@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
From	dxf <dxforth@gmail.com>
Message-ID	<667bd654$1@news.ausics.net> (permalink)
Organization	Ausics - https://newsgroups.ausics.net

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On 26/06/2024 5:49 pm, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> writes:
>> Why is 0 a valid argument to SET-ORDER (from the optional Search-Order 
>> word set)? It can leave a Forth system in a non-recoverable state.
> 
> So what?  There are lots of ways to put a Forth system in a
> non-recoverable state.
> 
>> Sentences are separated for emphasis: "If n is zero, empty the search 
>> order."  Why?
> 
> Why not?  It's what I would expect from 0 SET-ORDER anyway.
> 
> Is your question: "What potential uses does an empty search order
> have?" ?
> 
> I have seen postings that suggest to use EVALUATE for converting
> untrusted input into a number.  There is of course no security
> precautions in these postings, but at the very least one could empty
> the search order before the EVALUATE and restore it after the EVALUATE
> (with the EVALUATE being wrapped with CATCH).  I thought about writing
> out the source code, but the main things that would demonstrate is how
> inconvenient GET-ORDER and SET-ORDER with their arbitrary number of
> stack items are, and how inconvenient the arbitrary number of stack
> items produced by EVALUATE is.
> 
> Of course, with recognizer sequences, the better way is to use a
> recognizer sequence that only contains the number recognizers you
> want, no need to mess with the search order.
> 
>> In kForth (32/64), the sequence
>>
>> 0 SET-ORDER
>>
>> leaves the Forth system in a non-recoverable state, and I have to use 
>> Ctrl-C to break out back to the OS shell. This appears to be true in 
>> Gforth as well, although Gforth traps Ctrl-C, so maybe one has to kill 
>> the process from another shell.
> 
> In Gforth you can leave the text interpreter in the traditional Unix
> way of doing Ctrl-D at the start of a line.
> 
> Restoring an empty search order to some more usable default by the
> system CATCH handler would be a potential convenience feature, but I
> have not experienced an empty search order as a problem yet, and I
> don't remember users asking for such a feature, either.  And it would
> only catch
> 
> 0 SET-ORDER
> 
> but not the functionally equivalent
> 
> WORDLIST 1 SET-ORDER
> 
> So why nerf one and not the other?

So after all that you don't have an explanation either?  You implemented
it as instructed in the event someone finds a use.

"Yes, Zathras understand. ..... No, Zathras not understand, but Zathras do.
 Zathras good at doings, not understandings."

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Thread

0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-25 18:25 -0500
  Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? minforth@gmx.net (minforth) - 2024-06-26 01:19 +0000
    Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2024-06-26 11:12 +0200
    Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-26 05:54 -0500
  Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-06-26 07:49 +0000
    Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 18:50 +1000
      Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 17:36 +0400
        Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 13:19 +1000
          Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2024-06-27 23:10 +0100
            Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 11:56 +1000
          Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 13:51 +0400
            Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 22:19 +1000
              Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 17:48 +0400
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-06-29 03:08 +1000
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 18:45 +1000
            Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-06-29 13:27 +1000
        Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2024-06-27 05:14 +0100
          Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2024-06-27 11:05 +0200
            Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? minforth@gmx.net (minforth) - 2024-06-27 13:00 +0000
          Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 22:41 +1000
          Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-27 14:09 -0500
            Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-27 14:22 -0500
              Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2024-06-27 23:08 +0100
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-27 18:44 -0500
              Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 15:51 +1000
            Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2024-06-28 10:04 +0200
              Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-29 09:09 -0500
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2024-06-30 12:22 +0200
          Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 14:20 +0400
            Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2024-06-28 21:45 +0200
              Recognizer protocol (was: 0 SET-ORDER why?) Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2024-06-29 02:27 +0400
            Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2024-07-04 07:26 +0100
    Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2024-06-26 11:18 +0200
      Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? minforth@gmx.net (minforth) - 2024-06-26 10:36 +0000
      Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-26 06:13 -0500
    Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-26 05:56 -0500
      Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-06-28 15:50 +0000
        Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 18:39 +0200
        Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-29 09:17 -0500
          Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-06-30 12:21 +1000
            Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-30 11:10 -0500
              Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-30 11:16 -0500
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? minforth@gmx.net (minforth) - 2024-06-30 17:38 +0000
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2024-06-30 20:25 +0200
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-30 13:31 -0500
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? minforth@gmx.net (minforth) - 2024-06-30 20:37 +0000
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-06-30 20:49 -0500
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? mhx@iae.nl (mhx) - 2024-07-01 07:06 +0000
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-07-01 05:06 -0500
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2024-07-01 13:35 +0200
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 13:02 +0400
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-07-01 05:13 -0500
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-07-01 21:02 +1000
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 15:56 +1000
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-07-02 20:04 -0500
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 12:32 +1000
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2024-07-03 11:59 +0200
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 00:46 +1000
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2024-07-01 13:39 +0200
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? sjack@dontemail.me (sjack) - 2024-07-02 14:29 +0000
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2024-07-03 00:52 +1000
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2024-07-02 17:42 +0400
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2024-07-02 20:17 -0500
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Anthony Howe <achowe@snert.com> - 2024-09-21 15:37 -0400
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 21:52 +0400
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Anthony Howe <achowe@snert.com> - 2024-09-22 14:02 -0400
                Re: 0 SET-ORDER why? Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 00:21 +0400

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