Re: 0 vs. translate-none

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: 0 vs. translate-none
Date	2025-09-29 05:54 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2025Sep29.075402@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	<2025Sep17.185305@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <2025Sep24.084535@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <68d4d191$1@news.ausics.net> <2025Sep25.083640@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <nnd$71a561d9$581ef575@94668eb4db980337>

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albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl writes:
>In article <2025Sep25.083640@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>As a programmer, if you know how the systems you are interested in
>>behave, you can make use of that knowledge; the program will then not
>>conform to the current standard, but still work as intended on these
>>systems.  In a standard based on common practice, that's the only
>>way to achieve progress.
>
>That is for unsafe languages like Forth or Fortran. For Algol / Pascal
>program' s behave the same for all systems, except for restrictions
>due to the program environment like "memory exhausted" " too many
>nesting levels", " floating point overflow" for the language model
>is based on infinite resources.
>The language definition is nailed down from day one and there is no
>ambiguous holes to be filled.

Nice fantasy.

For Algol 60 (not sure about Algol 68), they could not even agree on a
machine-readable representation of the programs.  I.e., you cannot
write a file containing any Algol 60 program that is guaranteed to be
compiled by all Algol 60 compilers; the behaviour of the program is
only when you have compiled it and can run it.

In Pascal, the program can access a pointer after DELETEing its
contants, and you can also DELETE the pointer several times, all not
defined by the language and typically resulting in programs behaving
other than intended.  The same kinds of execution sequences are often
mentioned as vulnerabilities in C programs (use after free, double
free); this only is not reported widely for Pascal programs because
there are no Pascal programs in wide use.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
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0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-17 16:53 +0000
  Re: 0 vs. translate-none minforth <minforth@gmx.net> - 2025-09-19 12:24 +0200
    Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-19 15:45 +0000
      Re: 0 vs. translate-none peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2025-09-19 19:39 +0200
        Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-20 07:25 +0000
          Re: 0 vs. translate-none peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2025-09-20 10:34 +0200
            Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-20 16:08 +0000
              Re: 0 vs. translate-none peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2025-09-20 19:08 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-20 17:57 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2025-09-20 20:55 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-21 12:33 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2025-09-21 18:39 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-23 17:25 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2025-09-23 22:25 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-09-24 01:15 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-24 06:26 +0000
            Re: 0 vs. translate-none albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-09-21 10:37 +0200
              Re: 0 vs. translate-none minforth <minforth@gmx.net> - 2025-09-21 13:56 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-09-21 14:44 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none minforth <minforth@gmx.net> - 2025-09-21 17:46 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-23 17:23 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none minforth <minforth@gmx.net> - 2025-09-23 22:38 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-24 06:38 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none minforth <minforth@gmx.net> - 2025-09-24 09:39 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-09-24 10:28 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none minforth <minforth@gmx.net> - 2025-09-24 10:44 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none minforth <minforth@gmx.net> - 2025-09-24 10:36 +0200
              Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-21 12:50 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-09-21 21:39 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-22 06:56 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-09-22 10:09 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-22 08:39 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-09-22 23:03 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-23 17:00 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-09-24 00:41 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-09-24 13:57 +1000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-24 06:45 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-09-25 15:22 +1000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-25 06:36 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-09-25 13:00 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-29 05:54 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-09-29 11:03 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-29 16:27 +0000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-09-26 10:56 +1000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-09-26 17:09 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-09-29 00:42 +1000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-09-30 18:15 +0200
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-10-01 14:10 +1000
                Re: 0 vs. translate-none Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 15:48 +0200
  Re: 0 vs. translate-none Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2025-09-26 02:19 +0400
    Re: 0 vs. translate-none Ruvim <ruvim.pinka@gmail.com> - 2025-09-27 13:43 +0400

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