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Groups > comp.lang.c > #170696 > unrolled thread

you think rust may outthrone c?

Started byfir <profesor.fir@gmail.com>
First post2023-07-12 07:18 -0700
Last post2023-07-23 03:32 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 968 — 32 participants

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Contents

  you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-12 07:18 -0700
    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 01:37 -0400
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-13 10:16 +0200
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 04:27 -0700
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 05:01 -0700
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.org.invalid> - 2023-07-13 14:10 +0000
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-13 17:51 +0000
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-13 18:56 +0000
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-13 19:39 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-13 20:30 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-13 22:29 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-14 00:19 +0100
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 06:43 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-14 11:47 +0100
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 11:04 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:01 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:21 +0000
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 13:52 +0200
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:08 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:10 +0200
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:32 +0000
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:04 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:02 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:35 +0000
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 14:30 +0200
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-15 16:36 +0000
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 15:49 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 16:02 -0700
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 01:18 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 16:25 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 11:07 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 05:42 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 16:17 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 07:44 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 09:57 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 10:34 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 10:41 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-16 20:55 +0100
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 01:54 +0100
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 02:43 +0100
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 03:16 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 14:54 +0200
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 07:08 -0700
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 16:43 +0200
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 17:19 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-21 00:05 -0700
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 16:52 +0100
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 17:21 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 09:44 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:24 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-17 15:10 +0000
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-17 18:46 +0000
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:27 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-20 20:40 +0200
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-20 19:27 +0000
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-20 22:16 +0200
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 19:17 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 16:15 +0100
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 09:17 -0700
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:41 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 23:02 +0100
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 08:22 +0200
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:01 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:01 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 09:26 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:33 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:35 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:37 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 13:05 +0100
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 17:56 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 09:13 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:18 +0100
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 01:24 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:06 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 23:11 +0100
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:30 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 00:07 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 01:28 +0100
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 02:20 +0100
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-18 02:12 +0000
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 03:25 +0100
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 09:55 +0200
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:29 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 02:29 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 09:16 +0200
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 12:38 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 14:24 +0200
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 14:12 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 16:33 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 16:37 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 16:55 +0000
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 19:44 +0100
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:06 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-07-18 12:16 +0000
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 14:09 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 16:36 +0200
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 17:59 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 09:45 +0200
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 03:31 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 06:01 +0000
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 01:19 -0700
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 03:02 -0700
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 04:30 -0700
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 15:28 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:12 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:23 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:44 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 15:37 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 23:01 +0000
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 16:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:41 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 00:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 16:58 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 17:30 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 17:50 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 22:46 -0700
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 09:57 +0200
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:24 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 13:33 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 02:01 +0100
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 18:28 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 11:21 +0100
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 03:44 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 12:17 +0100
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 15:05 +0200
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 14:42 +0100
                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 16:22 +0200
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 16:40 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 18:56 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 20:26 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 21:06 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 18:34 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-22 20:09 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 14:34 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 23:03 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 15:30 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 21:49 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 11:41 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 04:15 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 15:51 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 19:05 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 00:22 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:38 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 01:15 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-23 13:45 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 15:06 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 17:54 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 17:56 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 11:03 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 20:15 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 20:18 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 09:50 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-24 10:58 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 06:02 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-24 14:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-24 18:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-05 10:22 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 18:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 18:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 20:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-06 01:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-14 04:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 18:22 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-25 19:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 21:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 00:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 03:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 16:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 00:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 21:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 20:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 21:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 02:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 02:42 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 17:36 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 05:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 20:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 03:34 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-12 10:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 16:37 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-15 13:05 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-15 14:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-25 20:08 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:19 +0200
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 14:52 +0200
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 16:14 +0100
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:52 -0700
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 18:29 +0200
                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-22 21:56 +0100
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:11 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-23 00:45 +0100
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 17:24 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 17:28 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-23 16:45 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 10:04 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 07:43 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-23 22:10 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 14:51 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 23:12 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:19 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:25 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-24 17:22 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 09:52 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 02:52 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 17:37 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-24 16:19 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:34 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 02:42 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-25 10:36 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 16:41 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-25 16:22 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-25 17:40 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 02:40 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:30 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 06:41 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 01:06 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 01:55 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 18:03 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 03:17 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 11:50 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 02:50 +0000
                                                                                                            Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 16:43 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 19:15 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-25 18:43 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 15:03 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 04:10 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 21:51 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 22:07 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 21:55 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 22:26 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 17:26 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 01:38 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-13 14:53 +0300
                                                                                                                    Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 13:07 +0100
                                                                                                                    What's wrong?  The phrasing, that's what! (Was: Overflow and undefined behaviour) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-13 13:16 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-13 16:25 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-14 12:10 +0300
                                                                                                                        Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-14 04:33 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-14 14:56 +0300
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-25 17:34 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-25 20:55 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-28 02:46 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 15:53 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-24 22:33 -0700
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-24 09:45 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 14:29 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 07:03 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 07:41 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 16:01 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 19:13 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 18:41 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 22:07 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 13:34 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 05:15 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 15:14 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 06:31 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 16:17 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 07:53 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 20:45 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-04 00:21 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 18:29 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:35 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-05 06:09 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 14:30 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 16:48 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 17:18 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 09:45 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 19:18 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 18:10 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 15:00 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 15:41 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 16:16 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-01 17:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 18:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-01 18:26 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 19:18 +0200
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 17:41 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 21:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 03:41 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 12:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 05:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-02 17:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 09:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 23:48 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 15:25 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 11:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 02:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 17:12 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 08:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 18:04 +0200
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 09:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-05 13:39 +0200
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 05:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 17:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 16:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:46 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 10:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 17:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 10:41 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 18:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 00:26 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 20:23 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 13:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 05:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:00 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 05:35 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 05:48 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 14:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:06 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 13:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2023-08-09 14:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 15:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 07:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 08:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 15:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 16:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 17:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 21:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:16 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 09:18 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 00:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:24 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 14:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 17:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 17:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:35 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-15 17:51 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 16:01 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-15 23:11 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 23:40 +0200
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 17:58 +0200
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-02 19:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 22:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 02:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 02:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 15:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 17:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 18:56 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-05 23:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 00:21 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 00:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 11:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 17:06 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 17:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 14:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 23:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:19 -0700
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 23:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 17:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 01:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 18:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 07:41 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 04:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 14:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 16:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 08:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 17:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 09:43 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 00:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-10 15:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:26 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 16:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-08-10 16:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 11:13 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:26 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 11:30 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 17:39 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 18:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 21:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 23:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:21 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 04:13 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:22 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 09:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 18:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 21:58 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 05:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 13:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 08:55 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 18:23 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 15:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 18:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 00:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 06:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 15:56 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 08:35 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 02:44 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-09 05:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 16:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-08-07 13:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 10:24 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 14:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 17:59 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 11:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:34 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 14:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 23:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 22:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 00:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 23:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 04:07 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 14:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 17:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 18:39 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-03 02:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 20:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 23:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 15:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 07:44 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 07:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 17:14 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-04 13:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 15:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 17:05 -0400
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 22:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 17:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 21:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 00:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 00:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 01:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 02:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 11:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-06 16:50 +0200
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 18:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 00:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 22:44 -0400
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 10:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 07:53 -0400
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 11:53 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-06 16:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-04 19:50 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 02:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 14:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 17:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 07:56 -0400
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 13:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 14:12 +0200
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 16:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 16:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 17:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 14:16 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 05:45 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 22:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 22:19 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:07 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 05:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:17 +0200
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 22:27 +0200
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 18:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 16:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 00:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 18:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 19:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:57 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:32 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 03:59 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:17 +0200
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 18:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 19:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 13:11 +0200
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 04:22 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 14:45 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 06:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 15:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 08:36 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 02:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 15:49 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 21:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 09:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 16:27 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:42 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:38 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 10:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 17:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 10:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 03:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 19:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 11:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:29 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-08-09 11:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 13:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 15:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 15:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 16:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 18:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-12 10:36 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 02:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 08:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 07:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 07:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 08:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:10 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 00:18 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:08 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-13 03:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 06:16 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 15:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-13 03:38 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-12 12:12 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 09:30 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 18:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 20:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 20:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 04:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-14 15:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 16:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:19 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 15:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-11 08:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 11:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 10:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 13:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 13:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-11 07:33 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 15:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 16:45 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 10:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 20:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 22:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 22:59 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 23:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-12 00:26 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 21:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 13:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 14:55 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 21:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 22:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:32 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-12 12:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 15:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 15:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 17:26 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 16:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:35 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 19:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 09:34 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:37 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 16:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:25 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 16:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-08-11 10:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-08-09 15:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-10 09:38 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 10:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 15:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-10 00:15 +0200
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 00:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 17:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 00:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 00:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 17:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 00:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 02:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 02:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 22:42 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 19:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 03:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 15:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 16:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 10:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-08-10 17:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 10:27 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 17:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 14:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 14:56 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 23:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:38 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 18:43 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 01:30 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 17:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:03 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 16:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:37 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 09:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 18:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 23:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 01:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 05:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 06:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 13:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 19:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 08:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 11:14 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 17:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 09:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 17:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:45 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 13:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 06:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 15:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 10:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 07:36 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 16:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 01:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 09:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 18:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 21:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 20:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 10:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 18:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 23:14 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 00:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 23:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 17:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 02:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 19:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:03 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 13:13 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-28 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-28 19:21 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-29 21:15 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:45 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 00:05 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-29 11:19 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-29 13:47 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-29 15:10 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-29 16:00 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-29 15:30 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:22 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:49 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-27 14:07 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 16:03 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 19:43 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 18:37 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 22:16 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 21:53 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 23:28 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-02 01:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 11:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 18:23 +0200
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 19:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 11:28 +0200
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 18:12 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 14:45 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 15:02 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 17:08 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:38 -0700
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:29 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 09:46 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:29 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 21:04 +0200
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 14:38 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 07:00 -0700
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:31 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 14:54 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:55 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 03:07 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 12:07 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 15:15 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:08 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 17:30 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 19:22 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:28 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 16:27 +0200
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 20:39 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:21 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:42 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 23:31 +0000
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:53 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 01:46 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 09:51 +0000
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 03:36 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-20 12:13 +0100
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:06 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:28 +0200
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-20 16:44 +0000
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-21 01:22 -0400
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:03 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:37 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-20 02:08 +0100
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:07 +0200
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 02:49 +0100
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:17 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 16:30 +0100
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:54 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:56 -0700
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 17:22 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 21:01 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 20:46 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:47 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 21:49 +0100
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:42 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "minf...@arcor.de" <minforth@arcor.de> - 2023-07-20 05:39 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 14:55 +0200
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-20 15:03 +0100
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 18:22 +0200
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 15:54 -0700
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:18 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:04 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:20 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-20 20:51 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:38 +0200
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:03 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:24 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 13:03 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 16:17 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-21 14:35 +0000
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-18 14:34 +0000
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 08:04 -0700
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 21:27 -0700
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:10 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 16:43 +0200
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 14:59 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 17:44 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-18 00:14 +0000
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 10:13 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:10 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:13 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:16 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:29 -0700
                    Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? (Was: you think rust may outthrone c?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 11:24 +0000
                      Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 11:30 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 05:20 -0700
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:29 +0000
                            Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 05:46 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:01 +0000
                                Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:07 -0700
                                  Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:26 +0000
                                    Why not? (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 13:32 +0000
                                      Re: Why not? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:43 +0000
                                        Re: Why not? (killfiles) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 14:10 +0000
                                          Re: Why not? (killfiles) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 14:28 +0000
                                            Re: Why not? (killfiles) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 18:46 +0000
                                    Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:52 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 02:21 -0700
                            Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-14 09:14 -0400
                              Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 13:29 +0000
                                Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-14 07:26 -0700
                                  Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 14:39 +0000
                                    Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:30 +0200
                                      Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:53 +0000
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:30 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:30 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 12:29 +0000
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:46 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:46 +0000
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:49 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-14 20:52 +0800
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:16 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:34 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 16:20 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 19:11 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 17:26 +0000
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> - 2023-07-15 04:42 -0700
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 12:29 +0000
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 18:40 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 19:05 -0700
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:25 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:30 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 15:48 -0700
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:56 +0000
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 14:41 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 12:55 +0000
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 18:46 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 17:28 +0000
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 20:20 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 18:42 +0000
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 06:46 -0700
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-15 14:12 +0800
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 01:05 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 18:54 -0700
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 08:59 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-17 02:26 -0400
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:43 +0000
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:58 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 09:32 +0200
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 07:58 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 12:56 +0200
                  OT Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-14 10:20 +0200
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-14 20:48 +0800
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-07-17 18:33 +0300
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 20:47 +0100
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 21:14 +0100
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 21:47 +0100
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 18:26 +0200
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 17:00 +0000
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 20:03 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 20:28 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:06 +0200
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 11:42 -0700
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 19:18 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 12:20 -0700
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 20:26 +0000
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 01:06 -0700
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 06:37 -0400
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:07 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 09:17 -0700
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 11:06 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 19:16 -0400
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 11:07 +0200
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 08:49 -0400
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 16:25 +0200
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 19:48 +0200
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:06 -0400
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 09:32 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 06:06 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 06:13 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:57 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:10 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:29 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:33 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:35 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 01:30 -0400
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 15:00 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 14:53 +0100
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:22 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:32 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:42 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:01 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 17:45 +0200
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:22 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 19:00 +0200
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 19:06 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 19:34 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:15 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:20 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:25 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:33 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:23 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:28 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 16:48 +0100
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:24 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 19:02 +0100
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 20:06 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:07 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:29 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 00:52 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 02:03 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 02:18 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 13:44 +0200
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 13:43 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:03 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:07 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:14 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:54 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:31 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:42 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:16 +0200
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 06:39 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:49 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 14:56 +0100
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 16:11 +0200
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-23 14:34 +0000
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 18:43 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:19 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:34 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:48 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:58 -0700
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:00 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:01 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:09 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:59 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:02 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:07 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:18 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:42 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:51 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:26 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:42 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 09:20 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:27 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:06 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:30 +0200
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 00:58 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 01:06 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:16 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 06:40 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:49 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:57 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 09:01 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:30 +0200
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:32 -0700

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#170862

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2023-07-18 03:25 +0100
Message-ID<87edl6uf9y.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#170860
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> On 18/07/2023 01:28, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> I don't know if anyone comes across comp.lang.c when trying to learn C
>> anymore, but if they do, a word of warning: Bart's purpose here is
>> always to obfuscate and confuse; he almost never explains or clarifies.
>> He want's everyone to find C as mysterious as me (pretends?) he does.
>>
>> For example
>>
>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>
>>> This is why I said that a program, ostensibly in C, is really in a
>    language
>>> partly defined by the choice of compile options.
>>
>> This is true of almost every programming language I have ever used.
>> Fortran is defined by ISO standards, but you can write programs that
>> look very much like ISO Fortran but which are really written in a
>> language only accepted by some compiler invoked with certain options.
>> It has always been this way, particularly for large, serious languages
>> with long histories.
>
> OK. But in that case why is C's so-called portability touted so much?

Who touts it?  Picking an old version of C, and sticking to the standard
can result in reasonably portable programs, but the whole notion is
fraught with misunderstandings and is not easy to define.  C is often
thought of as being very portable because almost every platform has a C
compiler, but writing highly portable is very hard and few people know
how to do it well.  Does that mean that C is portable or does it mean it
isn't?  The question is not an easy one to answer.

> (In the case of Fortran, I remember using machine-specific types such as
> INTEGER*4 (i32) in 1979; was there anything similar in C before C99?

For a while in the 1970s and into the 80s I would have said that FORTRAN
66 was probably the most "portable" language around.  It was widely
implemented and had a strict language standard.

> Funny that the non-low-level language had machine types, and
> close-to-the-metal C didn't!

INTEGER*4 is not a machine type on the 6502 but C's int can be
efficiently implemented on small systems.  You have invented a fiction
about what C "should be" in order to criticise it, while using a similar
fiction about Fortran to big up that language.

> Fortran anyway doesn't mind embracing change; the language has evolved
> considerably since then.)

C has changed quite a bit too but I'm not sure what part of your myth
that C is defined by compiler options is backed up by Fortran having
changed a lot (and C less).

>> For example, when someone posts here, I will compile it with something
>> like this
>>
>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>      -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>      -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align \
>>      -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>
>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>
> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.

That's what every compiler ever written does: process a language defined
by the author(s), the options used and the bugs in the implementation.
I really don't know what you hope to gain by saying obvious things like
this other than to (incorrectly) imply that C -- the language -- is not
defined by it's defining documents -- the ISO standards -- but by
compiler options.

Fortunately, gcc is a quality compiler and these options make the
language it accepts as close to ISO standard C (the 2011 version) as I
can get it, but there will always be bugs and misunderstandings.

> BTW I can't remember using any options when compiling Fortran.

Really?  Odd.  I remember needing multiple JCL cards to invoke the IBM
360 FORTRAN compiler, but you didn't get much choice about the language.
It implemented IBM's interpretation of FORTRAN IV and you were stuck
with it, though you could choose to write in a more portable subset.

> Maybe it was
> too long ago, but would have remembered having to type in that lot!

Fortunately every OS I've used provides mechanisms to avoid having to
type commands like this.  I suspect every OS you'd used does as well,
but you can't help reaching for a sound bite.

-- 
Ben.

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#170868

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-07-18 09:55 +0200
Message-ID<u95ggt$1iuls$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170862
On 18/07/2023 04:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> 
>> On 18/07/2023 01:28, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>> I don't know if anyone comes across comp.lang.c when trying to learn C
>>> anymore, but if they do, a word of warning: Bart's purpose here is
>>> always to obfuscate and confuse; he almost never explains or clarifies.
>>> He want's everyone to find C as mysterious as me (pretends?) he does.
>>>
>>> For example
>>>
>>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> This is why I said that a program, ostensibly in C, is really in a
>>     language
>>>> partly defined by the choice of compile options.
>>>
>>> This is true of almost every programming language I have ever used.
>>> Fortran is defined by ISO standards, but you can write programs that
>>> look very much like ISO Fortran but which are really written in a
>>> language only accepted by some compiler invoked with certain options.
>>> It has always been this way, particularly for large, serious languages
>>> with long histories.
>>
>> OK. But in that case why is C's so-called portability touted so much?
> 
> Who touts it?  Picking an old version of C, and sticking to the standard
> can result in reasonably portable programs, but the whole notion is
> fraught with misunderstandings and is not easy to define.  C is often
> thought of as being very portable because almost every platform has a C
> compiler, but writing highly portable is very hard and few people know
> how to do it well.  Does that mean that C is portable or does it mean it
> isn't?  The question is not an easy one to answer.
> 

It is more accurate, I think, to say that C /supports/ portable 
programming, rather than saying that C is a portable language.

The language was designed for two main uses.  One was /portable/ 
application-level programming.  The other was /non-portable/ 
systems-level programming - alleviating developers from having to use 
assembly.

It's use has spread far beyond its original designers' imaginations, and 
even with those two categories, there is no hard boundary between them.

Typically, programs will consist of a lot of portable code (even if it 
was not actually written with portability in mind), and some 
non-portable parts.  Some projects actively divide code like that with a 
view to ease of reuse on different targets, others mix freely.  Some 
bits of code are written intentionally as very portable, others make 
assumptions that limit portability.  I think it is fair to say that you 
can write a great deal of C /code/ in a portable (or fairly portable) 
manner without extra effort or run-time overhead - but you can write few 
complete C /programs/ in a highly portable fashion without extra work.


> 
>>> For example, when someone posts here, I will compile it with something
>>> like this
>>>
>>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>>       -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>>       -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align \
>>>       -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>>
>>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>>
>> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.

Note (this is primarily for Bart - it's nothing new to Ben) that none of 
these flags define the language - they merely ask for warnings on 
suspicious code.  "-std=c11" /chooses/ which language standard to use, 
but does not define it.

gcc does offer options that change the language - you can choose to 
support gcc extensions, and you can add additional semantics to C with 
options such as "-fwrapv" and "-fno-strict-aliasing".  But those are not 
in Ben's list.


> 
> That's what every compiler ever written does: process a language defined
> by the author(s), the options used and the bugs in the implementation.
> I really don't know what you hope to gain by saying obvious things like
> this other than to (incorrectly) imply that C -- the language -- is not
> defined by it's defining documents -- the ISO standards -- but by
> compiler options.
> 

One thing to remember is Bart's comparison here.  He is forever 
comparing C to his own language - a language that is, in a sense, 
constant because there is only one implementation of it.  There are no 
flags that affect the language, because what might be an optional 
feature in another compiler, is for him a fixed change to the language 
implemented by changing the compiler source.  With only one user, and 
only one compiler, there are no options or variations.  It is fully 
portable - all programs in his language can be compiled by all 
implementations.  There are no conflicts between language definition 
documents and implementations, because there are no documents defining 
the language - the language is whatever the implementation does.  There 
is no scope for alternative interpretation of the definition - with one 
user, there is always consensus.  There are no flaws in the language - 
it works exactly as its users want it to.

Because Bart has primarily used his own language (or languages) for many 
decades, he struggles to understand how things work for a language that 
has developed over decades, has formal standards, has countless 
implementations, countless users, and an enormous quantity of code 
written to wildly varying qualities.


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#170876

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-07-18 12:29 +0100
Message-ID<u95t32$1k9hq$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170868
On 18/07/2023 08:55, David Brown wrote:
> On 18/07/2023 04:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:

>> That's what every compiler ever written does: process a language defined
>> by the author(s), the options used and the bugs in the implementation.
>> I really don't know what you hope to gain by saying obvious things like
>> this other than to (incorrectly) imply that C -- the language -- is not
>> defined by it's defining documents -- the ISO standards -- but by
>> compiler options.
>>
> 
> One thing to remember is Bart's comparison here.  He is forever 
> comparing C to his own language - a language that is, in a sense, 
> constant because there is only one implementation of it.  There are no 
> flags that affect the language, because what might be an optional 
> feature in another compiler, is for him a fixed change to the language 
> implemented by changing the compiler source.  With only one user, and 
> only one compiler, there are no options or variations.  It is fully 
> portable - all programs in his language can be compiled by all 
> implementations.  There are no conflicts between language definition 
> documents and implementations, because there are no documents defining 
> the language - the language is whatever the implementation does.  There 
> is no scope for alternative interpretation of the definition - with one 
> user, there is always consensus.  There are no flaws in the language - 
> it works exactly as its users want it to.
> 
> Because Bart has primarily used his own language (or languages) for many 
> decades, he struggles to understand how things work for a language that 
> has developed over decades, has formal standards, has countless 
> implementations, countless users, and an enormous quantity of code 
> written to wildly varying qualities.

That's not true. My language has evolved considerably since the the 
first version in the early 80s, far more than C, but not quite as much 
as Fortran.

There are have been countless compilers and various machine targets, 
some ILs, and even ones generating C32 and C64 (versions of C that must 
be compiled with -m32 or -m64).

Actually even now it is volatile, and only recently I decided to keep it 
stable.

The actual level of it (see my post before this one) is not much higher 
than C, but I have been able to experiment with lots of different ideas 
that suit this level of language.

That's why I can be so vocal about C.

I also understand why C development needs to be constrained, yet many 
things could be done but aren't, like making compilers default to the 
newest, safest standards, and /require/ options to compile legacy code.

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#170889

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2023-07-19 02:29 +0100
Message-ID<87wmywu1rd.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#170868
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

> On 18/07/2023 04:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On 18/07/2023 01:28, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
<cut>
>>>> For example, when someone posts here, I will compile it with something
>>>> like this
>>>>
>>>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>>>       -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>>>       -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align \
>>>>       -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>>>
>>>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>>>
>>> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.
>
> Note (this is primarily for Bart - it's nothing new to Ben) that none of
> these flags define the language - they merely ask for warnings on
> suspicious code.  "-std=c11" /chooses/ which language standard to use, but
> does not define it.
>
> gcc does offer options that change the language - you can choose to support
> gcc extensions, and you can add additional semantics to C with options such
> as "-fwrapv" and "-fno-strict-aliasing".  But those are not in Ben's list.

I may be missing the distinction you are making, but the languages
accepted by gcc -std=c11 and gcc -std=c11 -pedantic are very different!

<cut>
-- 
Ben.

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#170893

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-07-19 09:16 +0200
Message-ID<u982kg$2224b$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170889
On 19/07/2023 03:29, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> 
>> On 18/07/2023 04:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 18/07/2023 01:28, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> <cut>
>>>>> For example, when someone posts here, I will compile it with something
>>>>> like this
>>>>>
>>>>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>>>>        -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>>>>        -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align \
>>>>>        -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>>>>
>>>>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>>>>
>>>> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.
>>
>> Note (this is primarily for Bart - it's nothing new to Ben) that none of
>> these flags define the language - they merely ask for warnings on
>> suspicious code.  "-std=c11" /chooses/ which language standard to use, but
>> does not define it.
>>
>> gcc does offer options that change the language - you can choose to support
>> gcc extensions, and you can add additional semantics to C with options such
>> as "-fwrapv" and "-fno-strict-aliasing".  But those are not in Ben's list.
> 
> I may be missing the distinction you are making, but the languages
> accepted by gcc -std=c11 and gcc -std=c11 -pedantic are very different!
> 

I was trying to make a distinction between /defining/ a language variant 
and /choosing/ a language variant.  The language variant you get with 
"gcc -std=c11 -pendantic" is not defined by those flags - it is defined 
by the ISO standards.


I would also not describe "-std=c11" and "-std=c11 -pendantic" as "very 
different" languages or language variants.  The "-pedantic" flag makes 
gcc give warnings on certain code constructs that were valid in older C 
versions but not in C11, and on constraint errors where the standard 
requires a diagnostic even though the compiler can generate reasonable 
code.  But these are warnings, not errors, and the compiler will in many 
cases generate warnings on such code even with no flags.  (With no std 
flag, it defaults to -std=gnu17 on current gcc versions, IIRC.)

"-pedantic-errors" turns many of these warnings into hard errors, so 
that it will not compile - that makes the argument of "different 
languages" much stronger.

However, I still feel "different" languages is a poor description - even 
if you compare "-std=c11 -pedantic-errors" with "-std=gnu11", you are 
talking about extensions or additional features - one language is a 
subset of the other.  Code that is accepted by the compiler with both 
flag settings (whether you consider "accepted" to mean accepted without 
errors, or accepted without warnings) has the same semantics.

There /are/ gcc flags that actually make the language different, but you 
need to pick them specifically.  "-fgnu89-inline", for example, will 
make the "inline" keyword work like the pre-standardised version that 
gcc supported before C99.  "-fsigned-char" or "-funsigned-char" will 
change the sign of plain "char" to something other than the 
ABI-specified choice for the target, which can affect the semantics of 
the code.

And there are flags that add additional semantics to the language, but 
since the default for these is UB, the default is still a subset - 
things like "-fwrapv" and "-ftrapv", and "-fno-strict-aliasing".


So for your list of flags above, consider "-pedantic-errors" rather than 
"-pedantic".  (For clang fans, clang treats "-pedantic" as 
"-pedantic-errors".)

Personally for testing if code is "standard C", I use:

	gcc -O2 -std=c17 -Wall -Wextra -Wpedantic

That gives more warnings than required by the standard, but usually they 
are an indication of a problem or questionable code, so they are 
generally helpful in the context.  I enable optimisation because it 
enables more code analysis and therefore more warnings.


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#170902

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2023-07-19 12:38 +0100
Message-ID<87fs5kt9kn.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#170893
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

> On 19/07/2023 03:29, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>> 
>>> On 18/07/2023 04:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 18/07/2023 01:28, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> <cut>
>>>>>> For example, when someone posts here, I will compile it with something
>>>>>> like this
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>>>>>        -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>>>>>        -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align \
>>>>>>        -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.
>>>
>>> Note (this is primarily for Bart - it's nothing new to Ben) that none of
>>> these flags define the language - they merely ask for warnings on
>>> suspicious code.  "-std=c11" /chooses/ which language standard to use, but
>>> does not define it.
>>>
>>> gcc does offer options that change the language - you can choose to support
>>> gcc extensions, and you can add additional semantics to C with options such
>>> as "-fwrapv" and "-fno-strict-aliasing".  But those are not in Ben's list.
>> I may be missing the distinction you are making, but the languages
>> accepted by gcc -std=c11 and gcc -std=c11 -pedantic are very different!
>
> I was trying to make a distinction between /defining/ a language variant
> and /choosing/ a language variant.  The language variant you get with "gcc
> -std=c11 -pendantic" is not defined by those flags - it is defined by the
> ISO standards.

I am still missing something.  How does any flag define a language or
variant rather than just providing a way to choose it?

> I would also not describe "-std=c11" and "-std=c11 -pendantic" as "very
> different" languages or language variants.  The "-pedantic" flag makes gcc
> give warnings on certain code constructs that were valid in older C
> versions but not in C11, and on constraint errors where the standard
> requires a diagnostic even though the compiler can generate reasonable
> code.
<cut>
> However, I still feel "different" languages is a poor description - even if
> you compare "-std=c11 -pedantic-errors" with "-std=gnu11", you are talking
> about extensions or additional features - one language is a subset of the
> other.  Code that is accepted by the compiler with both flag settings
> (whether you consider "accepted" to mean accepted without errors, or
> accepted without warnings) has the same semantics.

Yes, I thought the problem was one of using terms differently.  My
background includes teaching both the formal theory of languages and
introductory programming.  This:

  int main(void) { return ({0;}); }

is a syntax error in every published version of the C language, right
back to K&R1.  Without -pedantic, gcc does not diagnose the syntax
error.  Formally, that's accepting a different language, and from the
practical point of view of teaching C, I'd want a student to see a
diagnostic if they wrote that.

> There /are/ gcc flags that actually make the language different, but you
> need to pick them specifically.  "-fgnu89-inline", for example, will make
> the "inline" keyword work like the pre-standardised version that gcc
> supported before C99.  "-fsigned-char" or "-funsigned-char" will change the
> sign of plain "char" to something other than the ABI-specified choice for
> the target, which can affect the semantics of the code.

Since all we are doing at this point is explaining our terms, I'll just
point out that, to me, C is a language in which the signedness of plain
char is not specified.  "-fsigned-char" or "-funsigned-char" specify the
same language.  Over the years I've seen both defaults several times, so
now, when I write char, I mentally check that I really mean that.  To
me,

  char c;

means "let c be char whose signedness I don't care about".  For others,
it probably means "let c be a char with native (ABI-defined)
signedness".

> So for your list of flags above, consider "-pedantic-errors" rather than
> "-pedantic".

Obviously I've considered it, but I don't care about the colour of the
diagnostic, and it's actually handy, when compiling code posted here, to
be able to run the executable after reviewing the warnings.

-- 
Ben.

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#170903

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-07-19 14:24 +0200
Message-ID<u98kmn$250np$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170902
On 19/07/2023 13:38, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> 
>> On 19/07/2023 03:29, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 18/07/2023 04:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18/07/2023 01:28, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>> <cut>
>>>>>>> For example, when someone posts here, I will compile it with something
>>>>>>> like this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>>>>>>         -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>>>>>>         -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align \
>>>>>>>         -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.
>>>>
>>>> Note (this is primarily for Bart - it's nothing new to Ben) that none of
>>>> these flags define the language - they merely ask for warnings on
>>>> suspicious code.  "-std=c11" /chooses/ which language standard to use, but
>>>> does not define it.
>>>>
>>>> gcc does offer options that change the language - you can choose to support
>>>> gcc extensions, and you can add additional semantics to C with options such
>>>> as "-fwrapv" and "-fno-strict-aliasing".  But those are not in Ben's list.
>>> I may be missing the distinction you are making, but the languages
>>> accepted by gcc -std=c11 and gcc -std=c11 -pedantic are very different!
>>
>> I was trying to make a distinction between /defining/ a language variant
>> and /choosing/ a language variant.  The language variant you get with "gcc
>> -std=c11 -pendantic" is not defined by those flags - it is defined by the
>> ISO standards.
> 
> I am still missing something.  How does any flag define a language or
> variant rather than just providing a way to choose it?

It doesn't define the language.  The "-std" flag in particular chooses 
the language variant, it does not /define/ anything.

If you have enough flags that vary or enable different features, then 
you could say that a particular combination of flags defines the 
language variation.  That would, perhaps, be a reasonable description of 
what you are doing if you had "-Werror" and a selection of different 
warning flags - you are then fine-tuning exactly what you consider 
acceptable or not in the language you are compiling.

But I'd rather say that for common use at least, like the flags you 
gave, you are choosing or specifying the language variation than 
defining it.

> 
>> I would also not describe "-std=c11" and "-std=c11 -pendantic" as "very
>> different" languages or language variants.  The "-pedantic" flag makes gcc
>> give warnings on certain code constructs that were valid in older C
>> versions but not in C11, and on constraint errors where the standard
>> requires a diagnostic even though the compiler can generate reasonable
>> code.
> <cut>
>> However, I still feel "different" languages is a poor description - even if
>> you compare "-std=c11 -pedantic-errors" with "-std=gnu11", you are talking
>> about extensions or additional features - one language is a subset of the
>> other.  Code that is accepted by the compiler with both flag settings
>> (whether you consider "accepted" to mean accepted without errors, or
>> accepted without warnings) has the same semantics.
> 
> Yes, I thought the problem was one of using terms differently.  

That is often the case.

> My
> background includes teaching both the formal theory of languages and
> introductory programming.  This:
> 
>    int main(void) { return ({0;}); }
> 
> is a syntax error in every published version of the C language, right
> back to K&R1.  Without -pedantic, gcc does not diagnose the syntax
> error.  Formally, that's accepting a different language, and from the
> practical point of view of teaching C, I'd want a student to see a
> diagnostic if they wrote that.

I suppose that depends on what we expect to happen with something that 
is not in the defined syntax of the language.  And it also depends on 
how different the language has to be before considering it relevant, or 
"very different".  A compiler that accepted, without warning or 
diagnostic, an otherwise good C file that did not end in a newline 
character, would formally be accepting a different language.

Still, I appreciate what you mean.  And I'd prefer if gcc extensions 
like this needed an explicit enable flag - it would be better to follow 
the standards more closely by default.  I'd like an explicit choice of 
"-std" flag to be mandatory for gcc (I'd actually like there to be a 
standardised mandatory pragma for it in the source code).  I don't think 
it's likely to change, however :-(

> 
>> There /are/ gcc flags that actually make the language different, but you
>> need to pick them specifically.  "-fgnu89-inline", for example, will make
>> the "inline" keyword work like the pre-standardised version that gcc
>> supported before C99.  "-fsigned-char" or "-funsigned-char" will change the
>> sign of plain "char" to something other than the ABI-specified choice for
>> the target, which can affect the semantics of the code.
> 
> Since all we are doing at this point is explaining our terms, I'll just
> point out that, to me, C is a language in which the signedness of plain
> char is not specified.  "-fsigned-char" or "-funsigned-char" specify the
> same language.  Over the years I've seen both defaults several times, so
> now, when I write char, I mentally check that I really mean that.  To
> me,
> 
>    char c;
> 
> means "let c be char whose signedness I don't care about".  For others,
> it probably means "let c be a char with native (ABI-defined)
> signedness".

I have the same attitude.  "char" is for characters - to me, it makes no 
sense to have a signdness characteristic.  If I want a signed char or an 
unsigned char, I write them explicitly.  (Actually I'd usually use 
uint8_t or int8_t in practice - or their "fast" versions for some kinds 
of code.  In my kind of coding you often want to be explicit about sizes.)


> 
>> So for your list of flags above, consider "-pedantic-errors" rather than
>> "-pedantic".
> 
> Obviously I've considered it, but I don't care about the colour of the
> diagnostic, and it's actually handy, when compiling code posted here, to
> be able to run the executable after reviewing the warnings.
> 

Fair enough.  I've just seen too many cases of "It's only a warning, so 
I can ignore it.  If it were serious, it would be an error".  I also 
like to have "-Werror" in my own flag settings, once a program has taken 
shape - warnings have a tendency to disappear when you type "make" 
twice.  But this all depends on the context and what you are trying to 
do at the time.


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#170904

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2023-07-19 14:12 +0100
Message-ID<87a5vst57x.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#170903
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

> On 19/07/2023 13:38, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>> 
>>> On 19/07/2023 03:29, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 18/07/2023 04:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 18/07/2023 01:28, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> <cut>
>>>>>>>> For example, when someone posts here, I will compile it with something
>>>>>>>> like this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>>>>>>>         -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>>>>>>>         -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align \
>>>>>>>>         -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note (this is primarily for Bart - it's nothing new to Ben) that none of
>>>>> these flags define the language - they merely ask for warnings on
>>>>> suspicious code.  "-std=c11" /chooses/ which language standard to use, but
>>>>> does not define it.
>>>>>
>>>>> gcc does offer options that change the language - you can choose to support
>>>>> gcc extensions, and you can add additional semantics to C with options such
>>>>> as "-fwrapv" and "-fno-strict-aliasing".  But those are not in Ben's list.
>>>> I may be missing the distinction you are making, but the languages
>>>> accepted by gcc -std=c11 and gcc -std=c11 -pedantic are very different!
>>>
>>> I was trying to make a distinction between /defining/ a language variant
>>> and /choosing/ a language variant.  The language variant you get with "gcc
>>> -std=c11 -pendantic" is not defined by those flags - it is defined by the
>>> ISO standards.
>> I am still missing something.  How does any flag define a language or
>> variant rather than just providing a way to choose it?
>
> It doesn't define the language.  The "-std" flag in particular chooses the
> language variant, it does not /define/ anything.

Of course.  That was (I thought) my point and not yours.  I'm sure we
agree on all of the facts here, so let me just explain why I thought
your were saying something different to me.

Your wrote (to Bart), "none of these flags define the language [...]
-std=c11 /chooses/ which language standard to use" and then in the next
paragraph "gcc does offer options that change the language...".  That
juxtaposition suggested a distinction between two kinds of flag which I
could not understand.

When I asked for clarification you said "I was trying to make a
distinction between /defining/ a language variant and /choosing/ a
language variant".  Can you see how I could think were saying that some
flags don't just choose a variant but define one?

-- 
Ben.

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#170910

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-07-19 16:33 +0200
Message-ID<u98s7e$26afo$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170904
On 19/07/2023 15:12, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> 
>> On 19/07/2023 13:38, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 19/07/2023 03:29, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18/07/2023 04:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 18/07/2023 01:28, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>> <cut>
>>>>>>>>> For example, when someone posts here, I will compile it with something
>>>>>>>>> like this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>>>>>>>>          -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>>>>>>>>          -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align \
>>>>>>>>>          -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note (this is primarily for Bart - it's nothing new to Ben) that none of
>>>>>> these flags define the language - they merely ask for warnings on
>>>>>> suspicious code.  "-std=c11" /chooses/ which language standard to use, but
>>>>>> does not define it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gcc does offer options that change the language - you can choose to support
>>>>>> gcc extensions, and you can add additional semantics to C with options such
>>>>>> as "-fwrapv" and "-fno-strict-aliasing".  But those are not in Ben's list.
>>>>> I may be missing the distinction you are making, but the languages
>>>>> accepted by gcc -std=c11 and gcc -std=c11 -pedantic are very different!
>>>>
>>>> I was trying to make a distinction between /defining/ a language variant
>>>> and /choosing/ a language variant.  The language variant you get with "gcc
>>>> -std=c11 -pendantic" is not defined by those flags - it is defined by the
>>>> ISO standards.
>>> I am still missing something.  How does any flag define a language or
>>> variant rather than just providing a way to choose it?
>>
>> It doesn't define the language.  The "-std" flag in particular chooses the
>> language variant, it does not /define/ anything.
> 
> Of course.  That was (I thought) my point and not yours.  I'm sure we
> agree on all of the facts here, so let me just explain why I thought
> your were saying something different to me.
> 
> Your wrote (to Bart), "none of these flags define the language [...]
> -std=c11 /chooses/ which language standard to use" and then in the next
> paragraph "gcc does offer options that change the language...".  That
> juxtaposition suggested a distinction between two kinds of flag which I
> could not understand.
> 
> When I asked for clarification you said "I was trying to make a
> distinction between /defining/ a language variant and /choosing/ a
> language variant".  Can you see how I could think were saying that some
> flags don't just choose a variant but define one?
> 

Yes, I can see how there was different interpretations here - it's a 
risk when mixing replies to more than one person in the same post.  But 
I think we've got it sorted and agreed now.

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#170911

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2023-07-19 16:37 +0100
Message-ID<87sf9jsyi8.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#170910
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

> On 19/07/2023 15:12, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>> 
>>> On 19/07/2023 13:38, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 19/07/2023 03:29, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 18/07/2023 04:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>>>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 18/07/2023 01:28, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>> <cut>
>>>>>>>>>> For example, when someone posts here, I will compile it with something
>>>>>>>>>> like this
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>>>>>>>>>          -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>>>>>>>>>          -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align \
>>>>>>>>>>          -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note (this is primarily for Bart - it's nothing new to Ben) that none of
>>>>>>> these flags define the language - they merely ask for warnings on
>>>>>>> suspicious code.  "-std=c11" /chooses/ which language standard to use, but
>>>>>>> does not define it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> gcc does offer options that change the language - you can choose to support
>>>>>>> gcc extensions, and you can add additional semantics to C with options such
>>>>>>> as "-fwrapv" and "-fno-strict-aliasing".  But those are not in Ben's list.
>>>>>> I may be missing the distinction you are making, but the languages
>>>>>> accepted by gcc -std=c11 and gcc -std=c11 -pedantic are very different!
>>>>>
>>>>> I was trying to make a distinction between /defining/ a language variant
>>>>> and /choosing/ a language variant.  The language variant you get with "gcc
>>>>> -std=c11 -pendantic" is not defined by those flags - it is defined by the
>>>>> ISO standards.
>>>> I am still missing something.  How does any flag define a language or
>>>> variant rather than just providing a way to choose it?
>>>
>>> It doesn't define the language.  The "-std" flag in particular chooses the
>>> language variant, it does not /define/ anything.
>> Of course.  That was (I thought) my point and not yours.  I'm sure we
>> agree on all of the facts here, so let me just explain why I thought
>> your were saying something different to me.
>> Your wrote (to Bart), "none of these flags define the language [...]
>> -std=c11 /chooses/ which language standard to use" and then in the next
>> paragraph "gcc does offer options that change the language...".  That
>> juxtaposition suggested a distinction between two kinds of flag which I
>> could not understand.
>> When I asked for clarification you said "I was trying to make a
>> distinction between /defining/ a language variant and /choosing/ a
>> language variant".  Can you see how I could think were saying that some
>> flags don't just choose a variant but define one?
>
> Yes, I can see how there was different interpretations here - it's a risk
> when mixing replies to more than one person in the same post.  But I think
> we've got it sorted and agreed now.

Well, no, because I still don't know what the "other" set of options do.
It's not choosing a variant and it's not defining the language; it's
something else.  Anyway, I am not particularly bothered, but only one of
us knows what you meant!

-- 
Ben.

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#170922

FromKaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Date2023-07-19 16:55 +0000
Message-ID<20230719095154.578@kylheku.com>
In reply to#170902
On 2023-07-19, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> I am still missing something.  How does any flag define a language or
> variant rather than just providing a way to choose it?

Because the combinations of flags are not separately defined languages.
If you have 8 Boolean flags, giving rise to 256 combinations, that could
in principle select one of 256 separately-defined language
implementations. In practice, it doesn't. You're defining it
via feature combination.


-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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#170926

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2023-07-19 19:44 +0100
Message-ID<87351jspug.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#170922
Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> writes:

> On 2023-07-19, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>> I am still missing something.  How does any flag define a language or
>> variant rather than just providing a way to choose it?
>
> Because the combinations of flags are not separately defined languages.
> If you have 8 Boolean flags, giving rise to 256 combinations, that could
> in principle select one of 256 separately-defined language
> implementations. In practice, it doesn't. You're defining it
> via feature combination.

That is a reasonable point view.  I wonder if that is what was meant.

Personally, I think the definition comes from the documentation that
describes the flags, but I can see what you mean.

-- 
Ben.

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#170873

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-07-18 12:06 +0100
Message-ID<u95rn3$1k9hq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170862
On 18/07/2023 03:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
 > Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
 >> OK. But in that case why is C's so-called portability touted so much?
 >
 > Who touts it?  Picking an old version of C, and sticking to the standard
 > can result in reasonably portable programs, but the whole notion is
 > fraught with misunderstandings and is not easy to define.  C is often
 > thought of as being very portable because almost every platform has a C
 > compiler, but writing highly portable is very hard and few people know
 > how to do it well.  Does that mean that C is portable or does it mean it
 > isn't?  The question is not an easy one to answer.

So why pick on [criticise] a method of accessing the top bit of a 32-bit 
word that is going to work on all platforms of interest?

What's really going on is that because that method might be tagged as UB 
(/because/ of various obscure architectures where it won't work), we're 
not allowed to use it in cases (perhaps the majority) where there would 
be no problem.

 > C has changed quite a bit too

C's changes are minor. Fortran changed from being unstructured, to 
structured, among other major differences.


 >>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
 >>>       -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
 >>>       -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral 
-Wcast-align \
 >>>       -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
 >>>
 >>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
 >>
 >> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.
 >
 > That's what every compiler ever written does: process a language defined
 > by the author(s), the options used and the bugs in the implementation.

gcc allows for myriad different dialects, and that's before extensions 
are considered.

My bcc compiler allowed for just two: there was an `-old` switch to 
enable features I didn't want to have, but were necessary to compile 
some existing programs.

(One consequence of gcc allowing deprecated features by default is that 
uses of those features are not curtailed; they are perpetuated.)

 > I really don't know what you hope to gain by saying obvious things like
 > this other than to (incorrectly) imply that C -- the language -- is not
 > defined by it's defining documents -- the ISO standards -- but by
 > compiler options.

I've given examples in the past where the same C program either:

* Passed with 0 lines of errors or warnings

* Passed with 28,000 lines of warnings and notes (on a 40Kloc input)

Or it could fail if you were to use -Werror too. In the case where it 
produced 28,000 lines, you had to peruse all those lines to find out if 
there was an 'error:` line, to discover if it had passed or not.

All I want to know is: is my program a valid C program, but gcc will not 
tell me; apparently *i* have to tell *it* how strictly it should treat 
my code!

This is like someone taking an exam, telling the examiner how strictly 
they should mark their paper.

I think you're just not seeing it. A compiler should take more 
responsibility for deciding a valid program, or the language should do 
so if it merely leaves things to the implementation.

 > Fortunately, gcc is a quality compiler and these options make the
 > language it accepts as close to ISO standard C (the 2011 version) as I
 > can get it, but there will always be bugs and misunderstandings.

With your options I managed to still produce an executable for this:

     int main() {main(1, 2.0, "three", main, main, main();}

My bcc compiler failed it /unless/ I specified '-old'.

Without any options, gcc said nothing about it (a quality compiler indeed!).


 >> BTW I can't remember using any options when compiling Fortran.
 >
 > Really?  Odd.  I remember needing multiple JCL cards to invoke the IBM
 > 360 FORTRAN compiler, but you didn't get much choice about the language.
 > It implemented IBM's interpretation of FORTRAN IV and you were stuck
 > with it, though you could choose to write in a more portable subset.

This the manual for Fortran IV for RSX11M:

https://usermanual.wiki/Document/RSX11MV1FortranIVUsersGuide.3451439411/view

Compiler options are on page 1-6. There aren't many, and only one 
affects the behaviour of the program: /I4 (which is default) to use an 
i32 implicit type for integers instead of i16.

The other Fortran IVs I used ran on mainframes; I can't remember the 
details.

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#170878

FromIke Naar <ike@sdf.org>
Date2023-07-18 12:16 +0000
Message-ID<slrnubd0l6.6tn.ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
In reply to#170873
On 2023-07-18, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 18/07/2023 03:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> >>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
> >>>       -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
> >>>       -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral 
> -Wcast-align \
> >>>       -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
> >>>
> >>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>
> With your options I managed to still produce an executable for this:
>
>      int main() {main(1, 2.0, "three", main, main, main();}

How did you manage to produce an executable for that?
Here, gcc says:

a.c:1:5: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype [-Wstrict-prototypes]
 int main() {main(1, 2.0, "three", main, main, main();}
     ^~~~
a.c: In function 'main':
a.c:1:53: error: expected ')' before ';' token
 int main() {main(1, 2.0, "three", main, main, main();}
                                                     ^
a.c:1:54: error: expected ';' before '}' token
 int main() {main(1, 2.0, "three", main, main, main();}
                                                      ^
and no executable is produced.

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#170879

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-07-18 14:09 +0100
Message-ID<u962v2$1lbh5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170878
On 18/07/2023 13:16, Ike Naar wrote:
> On 2023-07-18, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> On 18/07/2023 03:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>>>>        -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>>>>        -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral
>> -Wcast-align \
>>>>>        -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>>>>
>>>>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>>
>> With your options I managed to still produce an executable for this:
>>
>>       int main() {main(1, 2.0, "three", main, main, main();}
> 
> How did you manage to produce an executable for that?
> Here, gcc says:
> 
> a.c:1:5: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype [-Wstrict-prototypes]
>   int main() {main(1, 2.0, "three", main, main, main();}
>       ^~~~
> a.c: In function 'main':
> a.c:1:53: error: expected ')' before ';' token
>   int main() {main(1, 2.0, "three", main, main, main();}
>                                                       ^
> a.c:1:54: error: expected ';' before '}' token
>   int main() {main(1, 2.0, "three", main, main, main();}
>                                                        ^
> and no executable is produced.

There's a typo because I typed it by hand. This is the actual program:

#include <stdio.h>

int main() {
         main(1,2.0,"three", main, main, main());
}

All those options will still only warn.

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#170882

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-07-18 16:36 +0200
Message-ID<u9681e$1m5fp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170873
On 18/07/2023 13:06, Bart wrote:
> 
> On 18/07/2023 03:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>  > Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>  >> OK. But in that case why is C's so-called portability touted so much?
>  >
>  > Who touts it?  Picking an old version of C, and sticking to the standard
>  > can result in reasonably portable programs, but the whole notion is
>  > fraught with misunderstandings and is not easy to define.  C is often
>  > thought of as being very portable because almost every platform has a C
>  > compiler, but writing highly portable is very hard and few people know
>  > how to do it well.  Does that mean that C is portable or does it mean it
>  > isn't?  The question is not an easy one to answer.
> 
> So why pick on [criticise] a method of accessing the top bit of a 32-bit 
> word that is going to work on all platforms of interest?

Perhaps because it is /not/ going to work on "all platforms of interest" 
unless your interest is only in limited poorly optimising tools and in 
"it seemed to work when I tried it" coding ?

Do you /still/ not understand?  The concern is nothing to do with the 
size of "int" and "float" - it is the reliance on /undefined/ behaviour. 
  Even on compilers which can't do type-based alias analysis, the 
behaviour is rarely or never documented - it is /undefined/ because no 
one has defined it.  And for more serious compilers, you will not get 
the results you are imagining because your code makes no sense.  It 
might all seem to work fine in simple cases, and then fail later in more 
advanced use-cases - that's why you want a guarantee that it will work, 
because the behaviour is defined and documented.


> What's really going on is that because that method might be tagged as UB 
> (/because/ of various obscure architectures where it won't work), we're 
> not allowed to use it in cases (perhaps the majority) where there would 
> be no problem.

/Please/ try to keep up.  The meaning of code in a programming language 
is not defined by how it /could/ have been described, but how it is 
/actually/ described and specified.  C /could/ have been defined to 
allow such cross-type accesses to work as though it didn't have a type 
system.  But it was not so defined - it was defined on the assumption 
that people access floats as floats and access ints as ints, and when 
they need to do something weird and outside the type system, they write 
extra code to make that work safely.


> 
>  > C has changed quite a bit too
> 
> C's changes are minor. Fortran changed from being unstructured, to 
> structured, among other major differences.
> 
> 
>  >>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>  >>>       -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>  >>>       -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral 
> -Wcast-align \
>  >>>       -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>  >>>
>  >>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
>  >>
>  >> So you're using a version of the language defined by those options.
>  >
>  > That's what every compiler ever written does: process a language defined
>  > by the author(s), the options used and the bugs in the implementation.
> 
> gcc allows for myriad different dialects, and that's before extensions 
> are considered.
> 
> My bcc compiler allowed for just two: there was an `-old` switch to 
> enable features I didn't want to have, but were necessary to compile 
> some existing programs.

Ah, so your compiler is "better" because it is much more limited and 
can't handle other people's code?

> 
> (One consequence of gcc allowing deprecated features by default is that 
> uses of those features are not curtailed; they are perpetuated.)

One of the consequences of having your own personal little compiler is 
that no one but you uses it, so in the big picture it is completely 
irrelevant.  You can put whatever defaults or switches you like, and it 
doesn't matter to anyone but you.

One of the consequences of being a major toolchain is that vast numbers 
of people use it, and so defaults can't be changed without having big 
effects on lots of people and programs.

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#170886

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-07-18 17:59 +0100
Message-ID<u96gdj$1ndas$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170882
On 18/07/2023 15:36, David Brown wrote:
> On 18/07/2023 13:06, Bart wrote:

>> My bcc compiler allowed for just two: there was an `-old` switch to 
>> enable features I didn't want to have, but were necessary to compile 
>> some existing programs.
> 
> Ah, so your compiler is "better" because it is much more limited and 
> can't handle other people's code?

There are some features that need to be enabled, yes. Is that bad? It 
means I can't compile and run my nonsense example without explicitly 
enabling it.

> 
>>
>> (One consequence of gcc allowing deprecated features by default is 
>> that uses of those features are not curtailed; they are perpetuated.)
> 
> One of the consequences of having your own personal little compiler is 
> that no one but you uses it, so in the big picture it is completely 
> irrelevant.  You can put whatever defaults or switches you like, and it 
> doesn't matter to anyone but you.

What I'm saying makes sense, and you know it, but won't admit it.

> One of the consequences of being a major toolchain is that vast numbers 
> of people use it, and so defaults can't be changed without having big 
> effects on lots of people and programs.

The defaults can't be changed, ever?

These compiler have version numbers, and I'm sure people using them 
seriously will not rely on defaults.

And if it comes down to it, call the newer version gcc2 or something; 
it's really not hard.

The problem is the vast number of people using it casually who will keep 
using bad coding styles out of habit, or because they are not admomished 
by the compiler.

Then there are the compilers that need to be drop-in replacements for 
gcc that now need to replicate every misfeature, down to calling default 
output files a.out or a.exe.

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#170894

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-07-19 09:45 +0200
Message-ID<u984ba$227l1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170886
On 18/07/2023 18:59, Bart wrote:
> On 18/07/2023 15:36, David Brown wrote:
>> On 18/07/2023 13:06, Bart wrote:
> 
>>> My bcc compiler allowed for just two: there was an `-old` switch to 
>>> enable features I didn't want to have, but were necessary to compile 
>>> some existing programs.
>>
>> Ah, so your compiler is "better" because it is much more limited and 
>> can't handle other people's code?
> 
> There are some features that need to be enabled, yes. Is that bad? It 
> means I can't compile and run my nonsense example without explicitly 
> enabling it.
> 

I'm fine with a compiler needing a switch to allow outdated and 
dangerous code constructs - that's good.  (gcc can't do that, for 
historical reasons - it's something you have to do before a tool gets 
any widespread use.)

But your compiler won't handle a lot of other modern C constructs, and I 
don't see how you view that as an advantage.  It's fine if you feel your 
compiler is good enough for what you need - but not that it is /better/ 
because of its limitations.

>>
>>>
>>> (One consequence of gcc allowing deprecated features by default is 
>>> that uses of those features are not curtailed; they are perpetuated.)
>>
>> One of the consequences of having your own personal little compiler is 
>> that no one but you uses it, so in the big picture it is completely 
>> irrelevant.  You can put whatever defaults or switches you like, and 
>> it doesn't matter to anyone but you.
> 
> What I'm saying makes sense, and you know it, but won't admit it.
> 
>> One of the consequences of being a major toolchain is that vast 
>> numbers of people use it, and so defaults can't be changed without 
>> having big effects on lots of people and programs.
> 
> The defaults can't be changed, ever?

Almost correct.  Defaults can only be changed very carefully, very 
slowly.  Debates on the gcc mailing lists come up regularly on this 
topic, as many people (including me) think it would be far better if gcc 
was much stricter by default.  The counter-side is that it is very 
important that gcc continue to be able to compile code that it has 
always compiled - the value of existing code is enormous.  Proposals 
have included trying to split the compiler into a "systems" compiler 
with few warnings and support for old code, and a "developer" compiler 
with stricter checking and more developer help and warnings enabled. 
(This would just be done by modifying the default flags depending on the 
name used to invoke the compiler - not by having different compilers.)

But it is usually pointed out that any reasonably competent developer 
already enables lots of warnings and checks, and uses a build system 
that supports that easily (whether it be "make", bash aliases, Windows 
bat files, and IDE with options dialog, or whatever.)  The kind of 
developer that can't or won't use tools to help their work probably 
won't pay much attention to the warnings anyway.

Some things do change - "-fno-common" is the default for gcc, since gcc 
10 (IIRC).  Many things that are outdated are warnings (but not errors) 
by default.


> 
> These compiler have version numbers, and I'm sure people using them 
> seriously will not rely on defaults.
> 

That depends on the kind of coding you do.

If you are making code that will be released in source form, you very 
much want it to work with default versions on the systems you target - 
you want to minimise the requirements for the people using the code.  If 
you are making binaries, however, you will often want tight control of 
the toolchain so that you can make reproducible builds.  In between 
these extremes, you may want to specify details of compiler flags in the 
build setups or instructions.



> And if it comes down to it, call the newer version gcc2 or something; 
> it's really not hard.
> 

Oh, it really /is/ hard.  That's why I said you simply don't understand 
the situation there.

To give a car analogy (since these are always popular, until taken too 
far), you live on a sparsely populated island with single track roads. 
You don't care which side of the road you drive on.  But you think it 
would be better if the country switched to the right side, because then 
you could buy cheaper left-side-drive cars.  And you can't understand 
why the rest of the UK does not agree with you - surely it's not hard to 
change sides, and then everyone could have cheaper cars!

(There was one of the former British colonies in Africa which realised 
that switching from left-side drive to right-side drive was too big a 
change to do all in one day.  So they changed for buses and lorries one 
day, and for private cars the week after!)


> The problem is the vast number of people using it casually who will keep 
> using bad coding styles out of habit, or because they are not admomished 
> by the compiler.
> 
> Then there are the compilers that need to be drop-in replacements for 
> gcc that now need to replicate every misfeature, down to calling default 
> output files a.out or a.exe.

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#170890

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2023-07-19 03:31 +0100
Message-ID<87r0p4tyx4.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#170873
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> On 18/07/2023 03:25, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>> OK. But in that case why is C's so-called portability touted so much?
>>
>> Who touts it?  Picking an old version of C, and sticking to the standard
>> can result in reasonably portable programs, but the whole notion is
>> fraught with misunderstandings and is not easy to define.  C is often
>> thought of as being very portable because almost every platform has a C
>> compiler, but writing highly portable is very hard and few people know
>> how to do it well.  Does that mean that C is portable or does it mean it
>> isn't?  The question is not an easy one to answer.
>
> So why pick on [criticise] a method of accessing the top bit of a 32-bit
> word that is going to work on all platforms of interest?

It's getting increasingly hard to believe you don't know.  I've
commented before that you and I seem to view programming in entirely
different and incompatible ways, so I suppose it's possible that you
think that some code that worked today is correct (today).

> What's really going on is that because that method might be tagged as UB
> (/because/ of various obscure architectures where it won't work), we're not
> allowed to use it in cases (perhaps the majority) where there would be no
> problem.

It is explicitly stated to be undefined.  It's pure spin to say that it
"might be tagged as UB".  It's been undefined since ANSI C in 1989.

The /reason/ a construct is undefined has no bearing on my objection to
using it.

You /are/ allowed to use it.  The fact that it is undefined simply means
that the definition of the language does not say what the code means.

>> I really don't know what you hope to gain by saying obvious things like
>> this other than to (incorrectly) imply that C -- the language -- is not
>> defined by it's defining documents -- the ISO standards -- but by
>> compiler options.
>
> I've given examples in the past where the same C program either:
>
> * Passed with 0 lines of errors or warnings
>
> * Passed with 28,000 lines of warnings and notes (on a 40Kloc input)

So you are still trying to imply that C -- the language -- is not
defined by it's defining documents -- the ISO standards -- but by
compiler options.  You are still wrong.

> I think you're just not seeing it. A compiler should take more
> responsibility for deciding a valid program, or the language should do so
> if it merely leaves things to the implementation.

I have been seeing your stated preferences for years.  But what /you/
want from a tool like gcc is not some sacrosanct rule.  It's a
preference.

>>>> gcc -std=c11 -pedantic -D_ANSI_SOURCE -fno-common \
>>>>       -fsanitize=undefined -Wbad-function-cast \
>>>>       -Wstrict-prototypes -Wall -Wextra -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align \
>>>>       -Winline -Wundef -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wconversion -ffloat-store
>>>>
>>>> so I can see problems as early as possible.
<quoted material re-ordered for clarity>

>> Fortunately, gcc is a quality compiler and these options make the
>> language it accepts as close to ISO standard C (the 2011 version) as I
>> can get it, but there will always be bugs and misunderstandings.
>
> With your options I managed to still produce an executable for this:
>
>     int main() {main(1, 2.0, "three", main, main, main());}
<typo corrected>

Are you seriously going to go over this old ground again?  I can't
believe you've forgotten, so what do think would be the point of
re-hashing it all again?

> My bcc compiler failed it /unless/ I specified '-old'.

Curious.  Why is the program acceptable with that flag but not without?

> Without any options, gcc said nothing about it (a quality compiler
> indeed!).

The tool did what you asked.  As it happens, I'd prefer different gcc
defaults as well, but there are just too many scripts, makefiles and
build systems out there that would break.  But since providing your own
defaults is easy, I don't really mind much.  I certainly would not make
a point if posting about it every few years.

-- 
Ben.

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#170891

FromKaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Date2023-07-19 06:01 +0000
Message-ID<20230718230120.629@kylheku.com>
In reply to#170890
On 2023-07-19, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> My bcc compiler failed it /unless/ I specified '-old'.
>
> Curious.  Why is the program acceptable with that flag but not without?

So that you could have two languages in one, distinguished by
a compiler option.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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