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Groups > comp.lang.c > #170696 > unrolled thread

you think rust may outthrone c?

Started byfir <profesor.fir@gmail.com>
First post2023-07-12 07:18 -0700
Last post2023-07-23 03:32 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 968 — 32 participants

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Contents

  you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-12 07:18 -0700
    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 01:37 -0400
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-13 10:16 +0200
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 04:27 -0700
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 05:01 -0700
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.org.invalid> - 2023-07-13 14:10 +0000
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-13 17:51 +0000
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-13 18:56 +0000
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-13 19:39 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-13 20:30 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-13 22:29 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-14 00:19 +0100
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 06:43 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-14 11:47 +0100
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 11:04 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:01 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:21 +0000
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 13:52 +0200
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:08 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:10 +0200
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:32 +0000
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:04 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:02 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:35 +0000
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 14:30 +0200
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-15 16:36 +0000
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 15:49 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 16:02 -0700
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 01:18 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 16:25 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 11:07 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 05:42 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 16:17 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 07:44 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 09:57 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 10:34 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 10:41 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-16 20:55 +0100
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 01:54 +0100
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 02:43 +0100
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 03:16 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 14:54 +0200
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 07:08 -0700
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 16:43 +0200
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 17:19 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-21 00:05 -0700
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 16:52 +0100
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 17:21 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 09:44 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:24 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-17 15:10 +0000
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-17 18:46 +0000
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:27 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-20 20:40 +0200
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-20 19:27 +0000
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-20 22:16 +0200
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 19:17 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 16:15 +0100
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 09:17 -0700
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:41 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 23:02 +0100
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 08:22 +0200
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:01 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:01 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 09:26 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:33 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:35 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:37 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 13:05 +0100
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 17:56 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 09:13 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:18 +0100
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 01:24 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:06 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 23:11 +0100
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:30 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 00:07 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 01:28 +0100
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 02:20 +0100
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-18 02:12 +0000
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 03:25 +0100
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 09:55 +0200
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:29 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 02:29 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 09:16 +0200
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 12:38 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 14:24 +0200
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 14:12 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 16:33 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 16:37 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 16:55 +0000
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 19:44 +0100
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:06 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-07-18 12:16 +0000
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 14:09 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 16:36 +0200
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 17:59 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 09:45 +0200
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 03:31 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 06:01 +0000
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 01:19 -0700
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 03:02 -0700
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 04:30 -0700
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 15:28 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:12 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:23 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:44 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 15:37 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 23:01 +0000
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 16:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:41 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 00:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 16:58 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 17:30 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 17:50 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 22:46 -0700
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 09:57 +0200
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:24 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 13:33 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 02:01 +0100
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 18:28 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 11:21 +0100
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 03:44 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 12:17 +0100
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 15:05 +0200
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 14:42 +0100
                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 16:22 +0200
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 16:40 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 18:56 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 20:26 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 21:06 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 18:34 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-22 20:09 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 14:34 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 23:03 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 15:30 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 21:49 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 11:41 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 04:15 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 15:51 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 19:05 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 00:22 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:38 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 01:15 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-23 13:45 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 15:06 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 17:54 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 17:56 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 11:03 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 20:15 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 20:18 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 09:50 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-24 10:58 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 06:02 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-24 14:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-24 18:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-05 10:22 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 18:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 18:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 20:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-06 01:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-14 04:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 18:22 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-25 19:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 21:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 00:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 03:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 16:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 00:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 21:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 20:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 21:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 02:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 02:42 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 17:36 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 05:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 20:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 03:34 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-12 10:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 16:37 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-15 13:05 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-15 14:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-25 20:08 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:19 +0200
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 14:52 +0200
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 16:14 +0100
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:52 -0700
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 18:29 +0200
                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-22 21:56 +0100
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:11 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-23 00:45 +0100
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 17:24 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 17:28 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-23 16:45 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 10:04 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 07:43 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-23 22:10 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 14:51 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 23:12 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:19 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:25 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-24 17:22 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 09:52 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 02:52 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 17:37 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-24 16:19 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:34 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 02:42 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-25 10:36 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 16:41 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-25 16:22 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-25 17:40 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 02:40 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:30 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 06:41 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 01:06 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 01:55 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 18:03 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 03:17 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 11:50 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 02:50 +0000
                                                                                                            Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 16:43 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 19:15 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-25 18:43 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 15:03 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 04:10 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 21:51 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 22:07 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 21:55 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 22:26 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 17:26 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 01:38 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-13 14:53 +0300
                                                                                                                    Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 13:07 +0100
                                                                                                                    What's wrong?  The phrasing, that's what! (Was: Overflow and undefined behaviour) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-13 13:16 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-13 16:25 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-14 12:10 +0300
                                                                                                                        Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-14 04:33 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-14 14:56 +0300
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-25 17:34 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-25 20:55 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-28 02:46 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 15:53 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-24 22:33 -0700
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-24 09:45 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 14:29 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 07:03 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 07:41 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 16:01 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 19:13 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 18:41 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 22:07 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 13:34 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 05:15 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 15:14 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 06:31 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 16:17 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 07:53 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 20:45 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-04 00:21 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 18:29 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:35 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-05 06:09 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 14:30 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 16:48 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 17:18 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 09:45 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 19:18 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 18:10 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 15:00 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 15:41 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 16:16 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-01 17:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 18:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-01 18:26 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 19:18 +0200
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 17:41 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 21:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 03:41 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 12:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 05:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-02 17:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 09:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 23:48 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 15:25 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 11:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 02:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 17:12 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 08:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 18:04 +0200
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 09:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-05 13:39 +0200
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 05:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 17:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 16:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:46 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 10:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 17:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 10:41 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 18:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 00:26 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 20:23 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 13:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 05:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:00 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 05:35 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 05:48 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 14:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:06 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 13:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2023-08-09 14:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 15:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 07:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 08:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 15:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 16:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 17:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 21:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:16 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 09:18 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 00:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:24 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 14:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 17:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 17:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:35 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-15 17:51 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 16:01 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-15 23:11 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 23:40 +0200
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 17:58 +0200
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-02 19:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 22:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 02:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 02:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 15:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 17:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 18:56 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-05 23:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 00:21 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 00:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 11:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 17:06 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 17:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 14:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 23:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:19 -0700
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 23:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 17:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 01:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 18:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 07:41 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 04:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 14:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 16:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 08:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 17:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 09:43 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 00:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-10 15:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:26 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 16:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-08-10 16:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 11:13 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:26 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 11:30 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 17:39 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 18:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 21:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 23:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:21 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 04:13 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:22 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 09:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 18:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 21:58 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 05:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 13:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 08:55 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 18:23 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 15:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 18:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 00:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 06:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 15:56 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 08:35 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 02:44 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-09 05:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 16:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-08-07 13:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 10:24 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 14:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 17:59 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 11:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:34 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 14:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 23:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 22:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 00:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 23:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 04:07 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 14:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 17:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 18:39 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-03 02:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 20:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 23:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 15:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 07:44 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 07:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 17:14 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-04 13:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 15:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 17:05 -0400
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 22:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 17:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 21:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 00:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 00:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 01:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 02:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 11:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-06 16:50 +0200
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 18:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 00:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 22:44 -0400
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 10:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 07:53 -0400
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 11:53 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-06 16:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-04 19:50 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 02:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 14:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 17:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 07:56 -0400
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 13:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 14:12 +0200
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 16:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 16:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 17:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 14:16 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 05:45 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 22:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 22:19 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:07 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 05:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:17 +0200
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 22:27 +0200
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 18:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 16:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 00:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 18:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 19:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:57 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:32 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 03:59 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:17 +0200
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 18:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 19:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 13:11 +0200
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 04:22 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 14:45 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 06:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 15:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 08:36 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 02:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 15:49 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 21:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 09:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 16:27 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:42 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:38 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 10:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 17:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 10:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 03:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 19:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 11:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:29 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-08-09 11:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 13:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 15:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 15:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 16:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 18:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-12 10:36 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 02:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 08:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 07:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 07:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 08:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:10 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 00:18 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:08 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-13 03:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 06:16 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 15:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-13 03:38 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-12 12:12 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 09:30 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 18:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 20:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 20:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 04:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-14 15:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 16:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:19 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 15:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-11 08:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 11:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 10:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 13:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 13:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-11 07:33 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 15:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 16:45 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 10:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 20:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 22:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 22:59 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 23:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-12 00:26 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 21:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 13:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 14:55 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 21:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 22:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:32 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-12 12:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 15:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 15:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 17:26 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 16:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:35 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 19:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 09:34 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:37 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 16:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:25 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 16:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-08-11 10:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-08-09 15:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-10 09:38 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 10:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 15:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-10 00:15 +0200
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 00:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 17:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 00:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 00:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 17:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 00:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 02:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 02:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 22:42 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 19:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 03:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 15:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 16:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 10:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-08-10 17:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 10:27 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 17:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 14:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 14:56 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 23:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:38 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 18:43 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 01:30 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 17:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:03 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 16:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:37 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 09:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 18:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 23:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 01:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 05:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 06:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 13:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 19:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 08:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 11:14 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 17:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 09:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 17:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:45 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 13:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 06:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 15:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 10:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 07:36 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 16:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 01:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 09:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 18:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 21:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 20:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 10:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 18:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 23:14 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 00:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 23:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 17:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 02:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 19:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:03 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 13:13 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-28 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-28 19:21 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-29 21:15 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:45 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 00:05 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-29 11:19 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-29 13:47 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-29 15:10 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-29 16:00 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-29 15:30 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:22 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:49 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-27 14:07 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 16:03 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 19:43 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 18:37 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 22:16 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 21:53 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 23:28 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-02 01:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 11:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 18:23 +0200
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 19:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 11:28 +0200
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 18:12 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 14:45 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 15:02 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 17:08 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:38 -0700
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:29 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 09:46 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:29 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 21:04 +0200
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 14:38 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 07:00 -0700
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:31 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 14:54 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:55 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 03:07 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 12:07 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 15:15 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:08 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 17:30 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 19:22 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:28 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 16:27 +0200
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 20:39 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:21 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:42 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 23:31 +0000
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:53 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 01:46 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 09:51 +0000
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 03:36 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-20 12:13 +0100
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:06 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:28 +0200
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-20 16:44 +0000
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-21 01:22 -0400
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:03 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:37 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-20 02:08 +0100
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:07 +0200
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 02:49 +0100
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:17 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 16:30 +0100
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:54 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:56 -0700
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 17:22 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 21:01 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 20:46 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:47 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 21:49 +0100
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:42 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "minf...@arcor.de" <minforth@arcor.de> - 2023-07-20 05:39 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 14:55 +0200
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-20 15:03 +0100
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 18:22 +0200
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 15:54 -0700
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:18 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:04 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:20 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-20 20:51 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:38 +0200
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:03 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:24 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 13:03 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 16:17 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-21 14:35 +0000
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-18 14:34 +0000
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 08:04 -0700
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 21:27 -0700
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:10 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 16:43 +0200
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 14:59 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 17:44 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-18 00:14 +0000
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 10:13 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:10 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:13 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:16 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:29 -0700
                    Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? (Was: you think rust may outthrone c?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 11:24 +0000
                      Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 11:30 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 05:20 -0700
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:29 +0000
                            Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 05:46 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:01 +0000
                                Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:07 -0700
                                  Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:26 +0000
                                    Why not? (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 13:32 +0000
                                      Re: Why not? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:43 +0000
                                        Re: Why not? (killfiles) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 14:10 +0000
                                          Re: Why not? (killfiles) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 14:28 +0000
                                            Re: Why not? (killfiles) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 18:46 +0000
                                    Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:52 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 02:21 -0700
                            Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-14 09:14 -0400
                              Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 13:29 +0000
                                Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-14 07:26 -0700
                                  Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 14:39 +0000
                                    Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:30 +0200
                                      Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:53 +0000
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:30 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:30 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 12:29 +0000
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:46 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:46 +0000
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:49 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-14 20:52 +0800
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:16 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:34 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 16:20 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 19:11 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 17:26 +0000
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> - 2023-07-15 04:42 -0700
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 12:29 +0000
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 18:40 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 19:05 -0700
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:25 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:30 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 15:48 -0700
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:56 +0000
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 14:41 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 12:55 +0000
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 18:46 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 17:28 +0000
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 20:20 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 18:42 +0000
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 06:46 -0700
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-15 14:12 +0800
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 01:05 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 18:54 -0700
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 08:59 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-17 02:26 -0400
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:43 +0000
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:58 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 09:32 +0200
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 07:58 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 12:56 +0200
                  OT Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-14 10:20 +0200
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-14 20:48 +0800
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-07-17 18:33 +0300
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 20:47 +0100
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 21:14 +0100
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 21:47 +0100
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 18:26 +0200
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 17:00 +0000
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 20:03 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 20:28 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:06 +0200
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 11:42 -0700
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 19:18 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 12:20 -0700
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 20:26 +0000
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 01:06 -0700
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 06:37 -0400
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:07 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 09:17 -0700
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 11:06 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 19:16 -0400
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 11:07 +0200
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 08:49 -0400
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 16:25 +0200
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 19:48 +0200
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:06 -0400
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 09:32 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 06:06 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 06:13 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:57 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:10 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:29 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:33 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:35 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 01:30 -0400
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 15:00 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 14:53 +0100
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:22 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:32 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:42 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:01 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 17:45 +0200
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:22 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 19:00 +0200
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 19:06 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 19:34 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:15 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:20 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:25 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:33 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:23 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:28 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 16:48 +0100
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:24 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 19:02 +0100
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 20:06 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:07 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:29 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 00:52 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 02:03 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 02:18 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 13:44 +0200
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 13:43 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:03 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:07 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:14 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:54 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:31 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:42 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:16 +0200
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 06:39 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:49 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 14:56 +0100
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 16:11 +0200
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-23 14:34 +0000
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 18:43 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:19 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:34 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:48 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:58 -0700
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:00 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:01 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:09 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:59 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:02 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:07 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:18 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:42 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:51 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:26 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:42 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 09:20 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:27 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:06 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:30 +0200
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 00:58 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 01:06 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:16 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 06:40 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:49 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:57 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 09:01 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:30 +0200
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:32 -0700

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#172141 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromKaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Date2023-08-13 08:24 +0000
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<20230813010733.810@kylheku.com>
In reply to#172138
On 2023-08-13, Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
> On 2023-08-13, Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
>> Now here is the idea. I think we can stick with the more efficient
>> system where we generate the .d as a side effect of compiling the .o
>> in a single compiler invocation.
>>
>> We have a rule which updates .d files, but the body does this:
>>
>>  $(dep_dir)$(1)%.d : $(1)%.c $(alldepends) | $(dep_dir)$(1)
>>       > $@
>>       touch $<
>>
>> The .d file is truncated to zero length, and its time stamp is touched,
>> and the .c file (first prerequiste $<) is touched, to force the .o
>> to rebuild.
>>
>> I think that, then, in the .d file, all we need is the .d dependencies:
>>
>>    whatever.d: whatever.c whatever.h ...
>>
>> We don't need the .o.  Whenever whatever.c or whatever.h or other files
>> change, the .d file itself is out of date, and so the update rule
>> will file, blowing away that file, and touching the .c file.
>> So the .c file is forced to rebuild, and in so doing it will
>> regenerate the .d file.
>>
>> I will experiment with this to see what, if any, unforseen stumbling
>> blocks come up.
>
> It's looking good, except I made these changes.
>
> 1. If the .d file is being updated because it doesn't exist,
>    then don't bother with the > $@ command. It only risks failing
>    due to missing directory components.  When the .o file is
>    built, it takes care of the dependency on the directory to be
>    created, which is where the .d lives.  When updating the .d,
>    we cannot assume the directory exists.
>
> 2. Don't touch the .c file --- blow off the .o file!
>
> In my Makefile it looks like this
>
> # Truncate out-of-date dependency files and remove the corresponding .o.
> %.d:
> 	$(call SH,if [ -e $@ ]; then > $@ ; fi)
> 	$(call SH,rm -f ${@:.d=.o})
>
> In the compiler command, I now have:
>
>   -MMD -MT ${@:.o=.d}
>
> The target is just the .d file, no .o.
>
> Everything is building fine incrementally, and I tried the
> case where a header file is removed; it works too.

No; there is something that I'm certain is wrong.

When you have this in foo.d:

   foo.d: foo.c foo.h common.h

and, say, common.h is there because foo.h includes it, and suppose
common.h is removed and foo.h edited not to refer to it.

Here is what is wrong:

Make tries to update foo.d via the %.d rule, but notices that the
common.h prerequisite is missing and cannot be made.  Make then gives up
on the pattern rule entirely and doesn't run the recipe.

Since it doesn't run the recipe, the foo.o file is not removed.

Since there are only .d dependencies, foo.o is only considered with
regard to foo.c and looks up-to-date (foo.c has not been touched).

Putting the foo.o target in the .d file won't fix it; the
rule which truncates .d isn't run and so there will be a problem
that foo.o cannot be made due to a missing common.h that cannot
be made.

Come to think of it, I don't understand how David's rules avoid
a similar problem; perhaps they don't? If a prerequisite is removed,
the same thing will happen: the pattern rule for updating the .d
file will be dropped, and so the compile job will run into the
dependency problem.

If the rules don't solve that problem, they are no better than
the naive way of just generating .d together with .o.

The way to solve the problem may be to run a script which sweeps
through the dependencies and identifies those which have
a missing prerequisite, blowing those away and the .o file.
This happens from some $(shell ...) command before the .d files
are read, so no rule for updating .d files is required.

Another solution is to have dummy rules that cause missing
headers to be ignored:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23964228/make-ignoring-prerequisite-that-doesnt-exist

That could fix the flaw in the scheme I'm investigating, too.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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#172261 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-15 14:10 +0200
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<ubfpuq$2qfen$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172134
On 13/08/2023 09:07, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2023-08-13, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> On 12/08/2023 11:58, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>> On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 09:36:35 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>>>> define compile_rule_template
>>>> # $(1) = directory
>>>> # $(2) = extra common flags
>>>> # $(3) = extra c flags
>>>> # $(4) = extra cpp flags
>>>>
>>>> # First, rules to generate target directories as needed
>>>> $(dep_dir)$(1) $(obj_dir)$(1) $(lst_dir)$(1) :
>>>> $(MKDIR) -p $$@
>>>>
>>>> # Generate dependancy files
>>>> $(dep_dir)$(1)%.d : $(1)%.c $(alldepends) | $(dep_dir)$(1)
>>>> @echo Generating depency file $$@
>>>> $(CCDEP) $(combined_cflags) $(2) $(3) -MM -MP \
>>>> -MT $(obj_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.d=%.o) -MT \
>>>> $(dep_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.o=%.o) \
>>>> -MF $$@ $$<
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll let you look up the gcc manual and make manual for the details of
>>>> how this all works. It generates the dependency files automatically,
>>>> and updates them automatically. Obviously you need to set the variables
>>>> referenced, so that your object files and dependency files are in
>>>> separate trees from the source files.
>>>>
>>>> I was a little reluctant to post this because Bart will get his knickers
>>>> in a twist over it, but you might find it useful or inspirational.
>>>>
>>> As professional software engineers we ought to be able to do better
>>> than this sort of thing.
>>>
>>
>> Possibly.  But most of the attempts, such as CMake, have not been as
>> good.  They have tried to have a less cryptic syntax, but either fail to
>> provide the features needed, or simply replace cryptic symbols with
>> cryptic words.
> 
> I've learned something from your Makefile fragment there.

I'm glad to hear that - it's rare to see someone write "I've learned 
something" on Usenet!

> And in turn, I have a potentially nice idea; see below.
> 
> It looks like your rules might be solving the problem when header files
> disappear from dependencies.
> 
> You used the -MT option twice, in order to insert the  .d file itself
> as a target into the .d file, so you have this in a "whatever.d"
> file:
> 
>    whatever.o: whatever.c header.h ...
> 
>    whatever.d: whatever.c header.h ...
> 
> Thus if any of the files whatever.c header.h .. change, not onlly
> is the .o out of date, but so is the .d.
> 
> Now the .d is a Makefile fragment that is included.
> 
> When GNU Make finishes reading the Makefile and all included fragments,
> it considers them as targets to be updated (before doing anything else).
> So at that point, any out of date .d files will get re-made by your
> dependency generating rule, and everything gets reloaded.
> 
> Then the .d files are up-to-date and compiling proceeds with
> the correct dependencies.
> 
> When you generate .d files as byproduct of making .o files, and don't
> have a rule to generate them separately, then a code change that removes
> a header breaks the build.

Yes.

I don't make the .d files as a byproduct of the .o files, I build them 
separately.  So all the dependency files get built first, before the 
real compilation.

(Part of the reason I do this is because I use the same makefiles, with 
a modifications, on many projects.  I have some that use non-gcc 
compilers for the actual compilation, but I still use gcc to generate 
the dependency files.  Another reason is that before I realised you 
could have two -MT options I was running the dependency generation twice.)

> 
> If we remove "header.h", the .d file refers to a nonexistent
> prerequisite and make complains that it has no way to build header.h,
> which is needed by whatever.o.
> 
> Now here is the idea. I think we can stick with the more efficient
> system where we generate the .d as a side effect of compiling the .o
> in a single compiler invocation.
> 
> We have a rule which updates .d files, but the body does this:
> 
>   $(dep_dir)$(1)%.d : $(1)%.c $(alldepends) | $(dep_dir)$(1)
>        > $@
>        touch $<
> 
> The .d file is truncated to zero length, and its time stamp is touched,
> and the .c file (first prerequiste $<) is touched, to force the .o
> to rebuild.

I am not keen on touching the source file - I prefer the timestamps on 
the source code to match when it was actually saved.  But I appreciate 
the idea.

> 
> I think that, then, in the .d file, all we need is the .d dependencies:
> 
>     whatever.d: whatever.c whatever.h ...
> 
> We don't need the .o.  Whenever whatever.c or whatever.h or other files
> change, the .d file itself is out of date, and so the update rule
> will file, blowing away that file, and touching the .c file.
> So the .c file is forced to rebuild, and in so doing it will
> regenerate the .d file.
> 
> I will experiment with this to see what, if any, unforseen stumbling
> blocks come up.
> 

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#172135 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-13 00:18 -0700
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<9acdda2d-fa42-43d7-9a63-ff54565d7e36n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#172133
On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 07:19:19 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
> On 12/08/2023 11:58, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> > On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 09:36:35 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> >> On 09/08/2023 18:34, Kaz Kylheku wrote: 
> >>> On 2023-08-09, Bart <b...@freeuk.com> wrote: 
> >>>> On 09/08/2023 14:32, Richard Harnden wrote: 
> >>>>> On 09/08/2023 13:32, Bart wrote: 
> >>>>>> Yes, that is one reason that it is so complicated. You have to define 
> >>>>>> set of dependences between modules (and you may need to do that 
> >>>>>> manually, so it can be error prone). 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> $ gcc -MM *.c 
> >>>> 
> >>>> I have a small, 3-file project (one of Chris's) comprising files 
> >>>> cipher.c, sha2.c, hmac.c 
> >>>> 
> >>>> gcc -MM cipher.c outputs: 
> >>>> 
> >>>> cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.c sha2.h 
> >>>> 
> >>>> I need to do -MM cipher.c hmac.c sha2.c for it to show: 
> >>>> 
> >>>> cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.h sha2.h 
> >>>> hmac.o: hmac.c hmac.h sha2.h 
> >>>> sha2.o: sha2.c sha2.h 
> >>>> 
> >>>> So I had to tell it the C files. I can't do *.c, as there are 259 other 
> >>>> .c files in the folder. 
> >>> 
> >>> What you do is use the -MMD option of gcc which causes it 
> >>> to compile regularly while writing the dependency information to 
> >>> a .d file. 
> >>> 
> >>> These .d files are included into the Makefile (using -include 
> >>> so that the include doesn't fail when they don't yet exist). 
> >>> 
> >>> When a project is newly compiled from a clean state, dependencies 
> >>> are not required because everything must be built. 
> >>> 
> >>> After the first full build, you then have the .d files. 
> >>> 
> >>> It's a far from perfect solution. One problem is that when you make a 
> >>> change that removes a header file, the build breaks, due to a missing 
> >>> dependency. The dependency can't be fixed automatically because make 
> >>> wont't run the rule which does that. You either clean away all the 
> >>> dependencies, or if you don't want to suffer the rebuild time, you have 
> >>> to hunt down all the .d files which mention the removed header and blow 
> >>> those off. 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> You can do better than that. You can generate dependency rules for the 
> >> dependency files. My makefile has a rule template that is run for each 
> >> source directory. Part of that includes: 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> define compile_rule_template 
> >> # $(1) = directory 
> >> # $(2) = extra common flags 
> >> # $(3) = extra c flags 
> >> # $(4) = extra cpp flags 
> >> 
> >> # First, rules to generate target directories as needed 
> >> $(dep_dir)$(1) $(obj_dir)$(1) $(lst_dir)$(1) : 
> >> $(MKDIR) -p $$@ 
> >> 
> >> # Generate dependancy files 
> >> $(dep_dir)$(1)%.d : $(1)%.c $(alldepends) | $(dep_dir)$(1) 
> >> @echo Generating depency file $$@ 
> >> $(CCDEP) $(combined_cflags) $(2) $(3) -MM -MP \ 
> >> -MT $(obj_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.d=%.o) -MT \ 
> >> $(dep_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.o=%.o) \ 
> >> -MF $$@ $$< 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I'll let you look up the gcc manual and make manual for the details of 
> >> how this all works. It generates the dependency files automatically, 
> >> and updates them automatically. Obviously you need to set the variables 
> >> referenced, so that your object files and dependency files are in 
> >> separate trees from the source files. 
> >> 
> >> I was a little reluctant to post this because Bart will get his knickers 
> >> in a twist over it, but you might find it useful or inspirational. 
> >> 
> > As professional software engineers we ought to be able to do better 
> > than this sort of thing. 
> >
> Possibly. But most of the attempts, such as CMake, have not been as 
> good. They have tried to have a less cryptic syntax, but either fail to 
> provide the features needed, or simply replace cryptic symbols with 
> cryptic words. 
> 
> Part of it is the flexibility needed - what suits me in my projects is 
> not the same as what suits other people in their projects. 
> 
> The reality of good makefiles is that you don't spend much time on them. 
> I might spend a few hours on a project tweaking or modifying the 
> makefile I use, copied from a previous project. It's a tiny, tiny 
> fraction of the effort in a development project, and it makes things 
> much more efficient, portable, and easy to replicate - I am used to 
> rebuilding projects with bit-perfect replication on computers a decade 
> apart with different OS's. The effort required to google for "automatic 
> dependency generation for makefiles" and copy the ideas is small.
>
I've spent hours on make files. Not ones written by me. Ones written by other
people which fall over. To be fair usually things do work as expected, out
of the box. But not always.

Whilst I've written make files, generally I don't find the system useful.
If my projects compile under Linux, then usually they are portable. So
gcc *.c should do it, and I don't see the point in make. If they are non-portable,
they go on Windows. CMake is a blessing as it frees you from the need to distribute
a Visual Studio project file.

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#172139 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromSpiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-13 08:08 +0000
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<vrlaBLow0LO9Irplh@bongo-ra.co>
In reply to#172135
On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 00:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> wrote:
> Whilst I've written make files, generally I don't find the system useful.
> If my projects compile under Linux, then usually they are portable. So
> gcc *.c should do it, and I don't see the point in make.

If all you need is C compilation and compiling everything doesn't take too
long then yes , gcc <options> *.c   is fine and  make  would be an
unnecessary complication. But even then you would need alternatives to
things like   make install   or   make test   like writing separate scripts.

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#172143 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2023-08-13 03:44 -0700
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<36f09119-fbc6-466f-961f-042800cf6cafn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#172135
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 10:18:38 AM UTC+3, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 07:19:19 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> > On 12/08/2023 11:58, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> > > On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 09:36:35 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> > >> On 09/08/2023 18:34, Kaz Kylheku wrote: 
> > >>> On 2023-08-09, Bart <b...@freeuk.com> wrote: 
> > >>>> On 09/08/2023 14:32, Richard Harnden wrote: 
> > >>>>> On 09/08/2023 13:32, Bart wrote: 
> > >>>>>> Yes, that is one reason that it is so complicated. You have to define 
> > >>>>>> set of dependences between modules (and you may need to do that 
> > >>>>>> manually, so it can be error prone). 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> $ gcc -MM *.c 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> I have a small, 3-file project (one of Chris's) comprising files 
> > >>>> cipher.c, sha2.c, hmac.c 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> gcc -MM cipher.c outputs: 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.c sha2.h 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> I need to do -MM cipher.c hmac.c sha2.c for it to show: 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.h sha2.h 
> > >>>> hmac.o: hmac.c hmac.h sha2.h 
> > >>>> sha2.o: sha2.c sha2.h 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> So I had to tell it the C files. I can't do *.c, as there are 259 other 
> > >>>> .c files in the folder. 
> > >>> 
> > >>> What you do is use the -MMD option of gcc which causes it 
> > >>> to compile regularly while writing the dependency information to 
> > >>> a .d file. 
> > >>> 
> > >>> These .d files are included into the Makefile (using -include 
> > >>> so that the include doesn't fail when they don't yet exist). 
> > >>> 
> > >>> When a project is newly compiled from a clean state, dependencies 
> > >>> are not required because everything must be built. 
> > >>> 
> > >>> After the first full build, you then have the .d files. 
> > >>> 
> > >>> It's a far from perfect solution. One problem is that when you make a 
> > >>> change that removes a header file, the build breaks, due to a missing 
> > >>> dependency. The dependency can't be fixed automatically because make 
> > >>> wont't run the rule which does that. You either clean away all the 
> > >>> dependencies, or if you don't want to suffer the rebuild time, you have 
> > >>> to hunt down all the .d files which mention the removed header and blow 
> > >>> those off. 
> > >>> 
> > >> 
> > >> You can do better than that. You can generate dependency rules for the 
> > >> dependency files. My makefile has a rule template that is run for each 
> > >> source directory. Part of that includes: 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> define compile_rule_template 
> > >> # $(1) = directory 
> > >> # $(2) = extra common flags 
> > >> # $(3) = extra c flags 
> > >> # $(4) = extra cpp flags 
> > >> 
> > >> # First, rules to generate target directories as needed 
> > >> $(dep_dir)$(1) $(obj_dir)$(1) $(lst_dir)$(1) : 
> > >> $(MKDIR) -p $$@ 
> > >> 
> > >> # Generate dependancy files 
> > >> $(dep_dir)$(1)%.d : $(1)%.c $(alldepends) | $(dep_dir)$(1) 
> > >> @echo Generating depency file $$@ 
> > >> $(CCDEP) $(combined_cflags) $(2) $(3) -MM -MP \ 
> > >> -MT $(obj_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.d=%.o) -MT \ 
> > >> $(dep_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.o=%.o) \ 
> > >> -MF $$@ $$< 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> I'll let you look up the gcc manual and make manual for the details of 
> > >> how this all works. It generates the dependency files automatically, 
> > >> and updates them automatically. Obviously you need to set the variables 
> > >> referenced, so that your object files and dependency files are in 
> > >> separate trees from the source files. 
> > >> 
> > >> I was a little reluctant to post this because Bart will get his knickers 
> > >> in a twist over it, but you might find it useful or inspirational. 
> > >> 
> > > As professional software engineers we ought to be able to do better 
> > > than this sort of thing. 
> > > 
> > Possibly. But most of the attempts, such as CMake, have not been as 
> > good. They have tried to have a less cryptic syntax, but either fail to 
> > provide the features needed, or simply replace cryptic symbols with 
> > cryptic words. 
> > 
> > Part of it is the flexibility needed - what suits me in my projects is 
> > not the same as what suits other people in their projects. 
> > 
> > The reality of good makefiles is that you don't spend much time on them. 
> > I might spend a few hours on a project tweaking or modifying the 
> > makefile I use, copied from a previous project. It's a tiny, tiny 
> > fraction of the effort in a development project, and it makes things 
> > much more efficient, portable, and easy to replicate - I am used to 
> > rebuilding projects with bit-perfect replication on computers a decade 
> > apart with different OS's. The effort required to google for "automatic 
> > dependency generation for makefiles" and copy the ideas is small. 
> >
> I've spent hours on make files. Not ones written by me. Ones written by other 
> people which fall over. To be fair usually things do work as expected, out 
> of the box. But not always. 
> 
> Whilst I've written make files, generally I don't find the system useful. 
> If my projects compile under Linux, then usually they are portable. So 
> gcc *.c should do it, and I don't see the point in make.

That's because a command line is not your primary dev environment.
You develop with IDE and make is merely a tool to compile on also-run
OSes after sorces are ready and stable. 
In your scenario make indeed has no advantages over simple 
(but well-structured) build script.

> If they are non-portable, 
> they go on Windows. CMake is a blessing as it frees you from the need to distribute 
> a Visual Studio project file.

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#172146 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-13 06:16 -0700
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<ea76a099-74f5-44af-b235-d579ad7cfe85n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#172143
On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 11:44:33 UTC+1, Michael S wrote:
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 10:18:38 AM UTC+3, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> > On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 07:19:19 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> > > On 12/08/2023 11:58, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> > > > On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 09:36:35 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> > > >> On 09/08/2023 18:34, Kaz Kylheku wrote: 
> > > >>> On 2023-08-09, Bart <b...@freeuk.com> wrote: 
> > > >>>> On 09/08/2023 14:32, Richard Harnden wrote: 
> > > >>>>> On 09/08/2023 13:32, Bart wrote: 
> > > >>>>>> Yes, that is one reason that it is so complicated. You have to define 
> > > >>>>>> set of dependences between modules (and you may need to do that 
> > > >>>>>> manually, so it can be error prone). 
> > > >>>>> 
> > > >>>>> $ gcc -MM *.c 
> > > >>>> 
> > > >>>> I have a small, 3-file project (one of Chris's) comprising files 
> > > >>>> cipher.c, sha2.c, hmac.c 
> > > >>>> 
> > > >>>> gcc -MM cipher.c outputs: 
> > > >>>> 
> > > >>>> cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.c sha2.h 
> > > >>>> 
> > > >>>> I need to do -MM cipher.c hmac.c sha2.c for it to show: 
> > > >>>> 
> > > >>>> cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.h sha2.h 
> > > >>>> hmac.o: hmac.c hmac.h sha2.h 
> > > >>>> sha2.o: sha2.c sha2.h 
> > > >>>> 
> > > >>>> So I had to tell it the C files. I can't do *.c, as there are 259 other 
> > > >>>> .c files in the folder. 
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> What you do is use the -MMD option of gcc which causes it 
> > > >>> to compile regularly while writing the dependency information to 
> > > >>> a .d file. 
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> These .d files are included into the Makefile (using -include 
> > > >>> so that the include doesn't fail when they don't yet exist). 
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> When a project is newly compiled from a clean state, dependencies 
> > > >>> are not required because everything must be built. 
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> After the first full build, you then have the .d files. 
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> It's a far from perfect solution. One problem is that when you make a 
> > > >>> change that removes a header file, the build breaks, due to a missing 
> > > >>> dependency. The dependency can't be fixed automatically because make 
> > > >>> wont't run the rule which does that. You either clean away all the 
> > > >>> dependencies, or if you don't want to suffer the rebuild time, you have 
> > > >>> to hunt down all the .d files which mention the removed header and blow 
> > > >>> those off. 
> > > >>> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> You can do better than that. You can generate dependency rules for the 
> > > >> dependency files. My makefile has a rule template that is run for each 
> > > >> source directory. Part of that includes: 
> > > >> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> define compile_rule_template 
> > > >> # $(1) = directory 
> > > >> # $(2) = extra common flags 
> > > >> # $(3) = extra c flags 
> > > >> # $(4) = extra cpp flags 
> > > >> 
> > > >> # First, rules to generate target directories as needed 
> > > >> $(dep_dir)$(1) $(obj_dir)$(1) $(lst_dir)$(1) : 
> > > >> $(MKDIR) -p $$@ 
> > > >> 
> > > >> # Generate dependancy files 
> > > >> $(dep_dir)$(1)%.d : $(1)%.c $(alldepends) | $(dep_dir)$(1) 
> > > >> @echo Generating depency file $$@ 
> > > >> $(CCDEP) $(combined_cflags) $(2) $(3) -MM -MP \ 
> > > >> -MT $(obj_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.d=%.o) -MT \ 
> > > >> $(dep_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.o=%.o) \ 
> > > >> -MF $$@ $$< 
> > > >> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> I'll let you look up the gcc manual and make manual for the details of 
> > > >> how this all works. It generates the dependency files automatically, 
> > > >> and updates them automatically. Obviously you need to set the variables 
> > > >> referenced, so that your object files and dependency files are in 
> > > >> separate trees from the source files. 
> > > >> 
> > > >> I was a little reluctant to post this because Bart will get his knickers 
> > > >> in a twist over it, but you might find it useful or inspirational. 
> > > >> 
> > > > As professional software engineers we ought to be able to do better 
> > > > than this sort of thing. 
> > > > 
> > > Possibly. But most of the attempts, such as CMake, have not been as 
> > > good. They have tried to have a less cryptic syntax, but either fail to 
> > > provide the features needed, or simply replace cryptic symbols with 
> > > cryptic words. 
> > > 
> > > Part of it is the flexibility needed - what suits me in my projects is 
> > > not the same as what suits other people in their projects. 
> > > 
> > > The reality of good makefiles is that you don't spend much time on them. 
> > > I might spend a few hours on a project tweaking or modifying the 
> > > makefile I use, copied from a previous project. It's a tiny, tiny 
> > > fraction of the effort in a development project, and it makes things 
> > > much more efficient, portable, and easy to replicate - I am used to 
> > > rebuilding projects with bit-perfect replication on computers a decade 
> > > apart with different OS's. The effort required to google for "automatic 
> > > dependency generation for makefiles" and copy the ideas is small. 
> > > 
> > I've spent hours on make files. Not ones written by me. Ones written by other 
> > people which fall over. To be fair usually things do work as expected, out 
> > of the box. But not always. 
> > 
> > Whilst I've written make files, generally I don't find the system useful. 
> > If my projects compile under Linux, then usually they are portable. So 
> > gcc *.c should do it, and I don't see the point in make.
> That's because a command line is not your primary dev environment. 
> You develop with IDE and make is merely a tool to compile on also-run 
> OSes after sorces are ready and stable. 
> In your scenario make indeed has no advantages over simple 
> (but well-structured) build script.
>
Actually one big advantage of the gcc *.c method is that you can easily 
toggle options on and off . For example clang has an address santizer.
It slows down the program significantly so you don't want it on by default,
But you do want to do a few runs with the sanitzer on to check for memory
errors.
(I know that in make you can set up a "debug" target. But you might also
want -pedantic on or off.  For instance if you're taking in some code from
someone else, you might need to switch pedantic off to get it working, then
switch it on to make it compliant, then switch it off again to make the
compile instructions simple for the users).

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#172159 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2023-08-13 15:53 +0000
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<207CM.741125$GMN3.13013@fx16.iad>
In reply to#172143
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 10:18:38=E2=80=AFAM UTC+3, Malcolm McLean wro=


>> Whilst I've written make files, generally I don't find the system useful.=
>=20
>> If my projects compile under Linux, then usually they are portable. So=20
>> gcc *.c should do it, and I don't see the point in make.
>
>That's because a command line is not your primary dev environment.
>You develop with IDE and make is merely a tool to compile on also-run
>OSes after sorces are ready and stable.=20

Can you rephrase that last sentence? I can't make head nor tail
of it.

Makefiles are valuable throughout the development process.

Do you people ever develop complex applications with dozens
or hundreds of source files?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#172160 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-13 08:58 -0700
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<ff38dd66-03b6-4bee-90d5-16861237ae8dn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#172159
On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 16:53:49 UTC+1, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes: 
> >On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 10:18:38=E2=80=AFAM UTC+3, Malcolm McLean wro= 
> 
> 
> >> Whilst I've written make files, generally I don't find the system useful.= 
> >=20 
> >> If my projects compile under Linux, then usually they are portable. So=20
> >> gcc *.c should do it, and I don't see the point in make. 
> > 
> >That's because a command line is not your primary dev environment. 
> >You develop with IDE and make is merely a tool to compile on also-run
> >OSes after sorces are ready and stable.=20 
> 
> Can you rephrase that last sentence? I can't make head nor tail 
> of it. 
> 
> Makefiles are valuable throughout the development process. 
> 
> Do you people ever develop complex applications with dozens 
> or hundreds of source files?
>
Dozens, yes. But not hundreds.

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#172166 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-08-13 17:36 +0100
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<ubb0qi$1t3pi$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172159
On 13/08/2023 16:53, Scott Lurndal wrote:
 > Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
 >> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 10:18:38=E2=80=AFAM UTC+3, Malcolm 
McLean wro=
 >
 >
 >>> Whilst I've written make files, generally I don't find the system 
useful.=
 >> =20
 >>> If my projects compile under Linux, then usually they are portable. 
So=20
 >>> gcc *.c should do it, and I don't see the point in make.
 >>
 >> That's because a command line is not your primary dev environment.
 >> You develop with IDE and make is merely a tool to compile on also-run
 >> OSes after sorces are ready and stable.=20
 >
 > Can you rephrase that last sentence? I can't make head nor tail
 > of it.

It seems perfectly clear to me.

 > Makefiles are valuable throughout the development process.
 >
 > Do you people ever develop complex applications with dozens
 > or hundreds of source files?

You people don't seem to understand the line between developer and user.

The user usually wants ready-to-run binaries, preferably as monolithic 
executables.

If that is not practical and a binary needs to be created from source, 
then the files and directory structure needed to make that possible 
effortlessy, and with few failure points, are NOT the exact same huge, 
sprawling mess that the developer has to work with:

* The directory structure is irrelevant

* Static analysis is irrelevant; the software has been debugged and
   is working

* Makefile dependencies are irrelevant: eveything has to be built
   from source anyway

When an EXE is provided, whoever created it has already targeted the 
user's platform. One step back from EXE, the minimal source bundle 
needed to build that EXE can simililary be configured to that same platform.

The result is a more streamlined process with less chance of failure.


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#172142 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2023-08-13 03:38 -0700
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<c3ee813a-2282-4973-b1d2-d9cd0c421c16n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#172133
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 9:19:19 AM UTC+3, David Brown wrote:
> On 12/08/2023 11:58, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> > On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 09:36:35 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> >> On 09/08/2023 18:34, Kaz Kylheku wrote: 
> >>> On 2023-08-09, Bart <b...@freeuk.com> wrote: 
> >>>> On 09/08/2023 14:32, Richard Harnden wrote: 
> >>>>> On 09/08/2023 13:32, Bart wrote: 
> >>>>>> Yes, that is one reason that it is so complicated. You have to define 
> >>>>>> set of dependences between modules (and you may need to do that 
> >>>>>> manually, so it can be error prone). 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> $ gcc -MM *.c 
> >>>> 
> >>>> I have a small, 3-file project (one of Chris's) comprising files 
> >>>> cipher.c, sha2.c, hmac.c 
> >>>> 
> >>>> gcc -MM cipher.c outputs: 
> >>>> 
> >>>> cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.c sha2.h 
> >>>> 
> >>>> I need to do -MM cipher.c hmac.c sha2.c for it to show: 
> >>>> 
> >>>> cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.h sha2.h 
> >>>> hmac.o: hmac.c hmac.h sha2.h 
> >>>> sha2.o: sha2.c sha2.h 
> >>>> 
> >>>> So I had to tell it the C files. I can't do *.c, as there are 259 other 
> >>>> .c files in the folder. 
> >>> 
> >>> What you do is use the -MMD option of gcc which causes it 
> >>> to compile regularly while writing the dependency information to 
> >>> a .d file. 
> >>> 
> >>> These .d files are included into the Makefile (using -include 
> >>> so that the include doesn't fail when they don't yet exist). 
> >>> 
> >>> When a project is newly compiled from a clean state, dependencies 
> >>> are not required because everything must be built. 
> >>> 
> >>> After the first full build, you then have the .d files. 
> >>> 
> >>> It's a far from perfect solution. One problem is that when you make a 
> >>> change that removes a header file, the build breaks, due to a missing 
> >>> dependency. The dependency can't be fixed automatically because make 
> >>> wont't run the rule which does that. You either clean away all the 
> >>> dependencies, or if you don't want to suffer the rebuild time, you have 
> >>> to hunt down all the .d files which mention the removed header and blow 
> >>> those off. 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> You can do better than that. You can generate dependency rules for the 
> >> dependency files. My makefile has a rule template that is run for each 
> >> source directory. Part of that includes: 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> define compile_rule_template 
> >> # $(1) = directory 
> >> # $(2) = extra common flags 
> >> # $(3) = extra c flags 
> >> # $(4) = extra cpp flags 
> >> 
> >> # First, rules to generate target directories as needed 
> >> $(dep_dir)$(1) $(obj_dir)$(1) $(lst_dir)$(1) : 
> >> $(MKDIR) -p $$@ 
> >> 
> >> # Generate dependancy files 
> >> $(dep_dir)$(1)%.d : $(1)%.c $(alldepends) | $(dep_dir)$(1) 
> >> @echo Generating depency file $$@ 
> >> $(CCDEP) $(combined_cflags) $(2) $(3) -MM -MP \ 
> >> -MT $(obj_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.d=%.o) -MT \ 
> >> $(dep_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.o=%.o) \ 
> >> -MF $$@ $$< 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I'll let you look up the gcc manual and make manual for the details of 
> >> how this all works. It generates the dependency files automatically, 
> >> and updates them automatically. Obviously you need to set the variables 
> >> referenced, so that your object files and dependency files are in 
> >> separate trees from the source files. 
> >> 
> >> I was a little reluctant to post this because Bart will get his knickers 
> >> in a twist over it, but you might find it useful or inspirational. 
> >> 
> > As professional software engineers we ought to be able to do better 
> > than this sort of thing. 
> >
> Possibly. But most of the attempts, such as CMake, have not been as 
> good. They have tried to have a less cryptic syntax, but either fail to 
> provide the features needed, or simply replace cryptic symbols with 
> cryptic words. 
> 
> Part of it is the flexibility needed - what suits me in my projects is 
> not the same as what suits other people in their projects. 
> 
> The reality of good makefiles is that you don't spend much time on them. 
> I might spend a few hours on a project tweaking or modifying the 
> makefile I use, copied from a previous project. It's a tiny, tiny 
> fraction of the effort in a development project, and it makes things 
> much more efficient, portable, and easy to replicate - I am used to 
> rebuilding projects with bit-perfect replication on computers a decade 
> apart with different OS's. The effort required to google for "automatic 
> dependency generation for makefiles" and copy the ideas is small.

$(foreach src, $(C_SRCS) $(CXX_SRCS) $(ASM_SRCS) \
 ,$(eval \
  $(call src2obj_rule_template,$(src),$(OBJ_ROOT_DIR)/$(strip \
   $(if \
    $(findstring ../,$(src)), \
     $(notdir $(basename $(src))), \
     $(basename $(src)) \
   ) \
  )) \
 ) \
)

Above is the macro I have in a few of my makefiles.
I still can tell *what* it does, but not *how*. I could not probably
tell *how* 3 hours after I finished writing it.
It easily beats perl in write-only contest and could give a fare
fight to APL.

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#172115 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-08-12 12:12 +0100
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<ub7pf0$1a1uf$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172111
On 12/08/2023 09:36, David Brown wrote:
> On 09/08/2023 18:34, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> On 2023-08-09, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>> On 09/08/2023 14:32, Richard Harnden wrote:
>>>> On 09/08/2023 13:32, Bart wrote:
>>>>> Yes, that is one reason that it is so complicated. You have to define
>>>>> set of dependences between modules (and you may need to do that
>>>>> manually, so it can be error prone).
>>>>
>>>> $ gcc -MM *.c
>>>
>>> I have a small, 3-file project (one of Chris's) comprising files
>>> cipher.c, sha2.c, hmac.c
>>>
>>> gcc -MM cipher.c outputs:
>>>
>>>     cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.c sha2.h
>>>
>>> I need to do -MM cipher.c hmac.c sha2.c for it to show:
>>>
>>>     cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.h sha2.h
>>>     hmac.o: hmac.c hmac.h sha2.h
>>>     sha2.o: sha2.c sha2.h
>>>
>>> So I had to tell it the C files. I can't do *.c, as there are 259 other
>>> .c files in the folder.
>>
>> What you do is use the -MMD option of gcc which causes it
>> to compile regularly while writing the dependency information to
>> a .d file.
>>
>> These .d files are included into the Makefile (using -include
>> so that the include doesn't fail when they don't yet exist).
>>
>> When a project is newly compiled from a clean state, dependencies
>> are not required because everything must be built.
>>
>> After the first full build, you then have the .d files.
>>
>> It's a far from  perfect solution. One problem is that when you make a
>> change that removes a header file, the build breaks, due to a missing
>> dependency. The dependency can't be fixed automatically because make
>> wont't run the rule which does that. You either clean away all the
>> dependencies, or if you don't want to suffer the rebuild time, you have
>> to hunt down all the .d files which mention the removed header and blow
>> those off.
>>
> 
> You can do better than that.  You can generate dependency rules for the 
> dependency files.  My makefile has a rule template that is run for each 
> source directory.  Part of that includes:
> 
> 
> define compile_rule_template
>    # $(1) = directory
>    # $(2) = extra common flags
>    # $(3) = extra c flags
>    # $(4) = extra cpp flags
> 
>    # First, rules to generate target directories as needed
>    $(dep_dir)$(1) $(obj_dir)$(1) $(lst_dir)$(1) :
>          $(MKDIR) -p $$@
> 
>    # Generate dependancy files
>    $(dep_dir)$(1)%.d : $(1)%.c $(alldepends) | $(dep_dir)$(1)
>          @echo Generating depency file $$@
>          $(CCDEP) $(combined_cflags) $(2) $(3) -MM -MP \
>                          -MT $(obj_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.d=%.o) -MT \
>                          $(dep_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.o=%.o) \
>                          -MF $$@ $$<
> 
> 
> 
> I'll let you look up the gcc manual and make manual for the details of 
> how this all works.  It generates the dependency files automatically, 
> and updates them automatically.  Obviously you need to set the variables 
> referenced, so that your object files and dependency files are in 
> separate trees from the source files.
> 
> I was a little reluctant to post this because Bart will get his knickers 
> in a twist over it, but you might find it useful or inspirational.

Yeah, more likely to put people off for life.

Suppose you dispensed with all that dependency stuff; how long would it 
take to build such a project? Say compared with just compiling one module.

My other recent post suggests that someone very familiar with their 
application, will soon know which modules need to be recompiled after 
any change. That is, if a full recompile takes too long.



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#172136 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-13 09:30 +0200
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<uba0pv$1o951$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172115
On 12/08/2023 13:12, Bart wrote:
> On 12/08/2023 09:36, David Brown wrote:
>> On 09/08/2023 18:34, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>> On 2023-08-09, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>> On 09/08/2023 14:32, Richard Harnden wrote:
>>>>> On 09/08/2023 13:32, Bart wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, that is one reason that it is so complicated. You have to define
>>>>>> set of dependences between modules (and you may need to do that
>>>>>> manually, so it can be error prone).
>>>>>
>>>>> $ gcc -MM *.c
>>>>
>>>> I have a small, 3-file project (one of Chris's) comprising files
>>>> cipher.c, sha2.c, hmac.c
>>>>
>>>> gcc -MM cipher.c outputs:
>>>>
>>>>     cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.c sha2.h
>>>>
>>>> I need to do -MM cipher.c hmac.c sha2.c for it to show:
>>>>
>>>>     cipher.o: cipher.c hmac.h sha2.h
>>>>     hmac.o: hmac.c hmac.h sha2.h
>>>>     sha2.o: sha2.c sha2.h
>>>>
>>>> So I had to tell it the C files. I can't do *.c, as there are 259 other
>>>> .c files in the folder.
>>>
>>> What you do is use the -MMD option of gcc which causes it
>>> to compile regularly while writing the dependency information to
>>> a .d file.
>>>
>>> These .d files are included into the Makefile (using -include
>>> so that the include doesn't fail when they don't yet exist).
>>>
>>> When a project is newly compiled from a clean state, dependencies
>>> are not required because everything must be built.
>>>
>>> After the first full build, you then have the .d files.
>>>
>>> It's a far from  perfect solution. One problem is that when you make a
>>> change that removes a header file, the build breaks, due to a missing
>>> dependency. The dependency can't be fixed automatically because make
>>> wont't run the rule which does that. You either clean away all the
>>> dependencies, or if you don't want to suffer the rebuild time, you have
>>> to hunt down all the .d files which mention the removed header and blow
>>> those off.
>>>
>>
>> You can do better than that.  You can generate dependency rules for 
>> the dependency files.  My makefile has a rule template that is run for 
>> each source directory.  Part of that includes:
>>
>>
>> define compile_rule_template
>>    # $(1) = directory
>>    # $(2) = extra common flags
>>    # $(3) = extra c flags
>>    # $(4) = extra cpp flags
>>
>>    # First, rules to generate target directories as needed
>>    $(dep_dir)$(1) $(obj_dir)$(1) $(lst_dir)$(1) :
>>          $(MKDIR) -p $$@
>>
>>    # Generate dependancy files
>>    $(dep_dir)$(1)%.d : $(1)%.c $(alldepends) | $(dep_dir)$(1)
>>          @echo Generating depency file $$@
>>          $(CCDEP) $(combined_cflags) $(2) $(3) -MM -MP \
>>                          -MT $(obj_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.d=%.o) -MT \
>>                          $(dep_dir)$(1)$$(@F:%.o=%.o) \
>>                          -MF $$@ $$<
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll let you look up the gcc manual and make manual for the details of 
>> how this all works.  It generates the dependency files automatically, 
>> and updates them automatically.  Obviously you need to set the 
>> variables referenced, so that your object files and dependency files 
>> are in separate trees from the source files.
>>
>> I was a little reluctant to post this because Bart will get his 
>> knickers in a twist over it, but you might find it useful or 
>> inspirational.
> 
> Yeah, more likely to put people off for life.
> 

I find people like it once it is written.

> Suppose you dispensed with all that dependency stuff; how long would it 
> take to build such a project? Say compared with just compiling one module.
> 

That particular project takes a minute and a half to compile on my 
laptop (it's faster on my main machine).  It's 373 compilations, perhaps 
40% of it C++.  Too long for convenience.

My makefiles handle more than just avoiding redundant compilations.  It 
is also where all the flags are set (I need many), getting the right 
compiler (on many different host machines), doing "resource compiling", etc.

> My other recent post suggests that someone very familiar with their 
> application, will soon know which modules need to be recompiled after 
> any change. That is, if a full recompile takes too long.
> 

My experience is that such manual builds are tedious and error-prone. 
The reality is that people /don't/ keep good track of what needs 
rebuilt, and they either get obscure problems from failing to re-compile 
as needed, or they have a habit of rebuilding everything all the time.

Computers are good at tedious work.  They are good at tracking this kind 
of small detail.  Why not let the computer do the work here?  All it 
takes is a little googling and a willingness to learn - makefiles have a 
somewhat cryptic syntax, but it is not actually that hard if you are 
methodical, and you don't have to write them often.

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#172161 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2023-08-13 16:02 +0000
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<087CM.741126$GMN3.195290@fx16.iad>
In reply to#172136
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>On 12/08/2023 13:12, Bart wrote:

>
>> Suppose you dispensed with all that dependency stuff; how long would it 
>> take to build such a project? Say compared with just compiling one module.
>> 
>
>That particular project takes a minute and a half to compile on my 
>laptop (it's faster on my main machine).  It's 373 compilations, perhaps 
>40% of it C++.  Too long for convenience.

My current project takes well over an hour to build on a single-core
system.  With 32 cores and parallel make (-j32), that's reduced to
less than ten minutes (quicker if not using -O3, since once source file
takes 6 minutes itself to build with -O3, two minutes with -O0).

Somewhere over two million lines of C and C++ in several hundred
source files.

Without makefiles and dependency checking, the project would likely
not be feasible.

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#172168 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-08-13 17:48 +0100
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<ubb1h8$1t3pi$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172161
On 13/08/2023 17:02, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>> On 12/08/2023 13:12, Bart wrote:
> 
>>
>>> Suppose you dispensed with all that dependency stuff; how long would it
>>> take to build such a project? Say compared with just compiling one module.
>>>
>>
>> That particular project takes a minute and a half to compile on my
>> laptop (it's faster on my main machine).  It's 373 compilations, perhaps
>> 40% of it C++.  Too long for convenience.
> 
> My current project takes well over an hour to build on a single-core
> system.  With 32 cores and parallel make (-j32), that's reduced to
> less than ten minutes

You don't get a 32x speedup then?

> (quicker if not using -O3, since once source file
> takes 6 minutes itself to build with -O3, two minutes with -O0).
> 
> Somewhere over two million lines of C and C++ in several hundred
> source files.
> 
> Without makefiles and dependency checking, the project would likely
> not be feasible.

Two million lines doesn't sound that huge. With -O0 that would take, 
what, 12-15 minutes on one core? About 2.5K lines second; a rather 
sluggish compiler then.

I guess that must be due to C++? Or loads of header files?

Because I get 15-20Klps for gcc on a machine that is undoubtedly slower 
than yours (it's faster under WSL).

I don't believe your source files are that small either: 2M lines over 
1000 files would average 2K lines per file.

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#172170 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-08-13 18:53 +0100
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<ubb5ao$1tohn$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172168
On 13/08/2023 17:48, Bart wrote:
 > On 13/08/2023 17:02, Scott Lurndal wrote:
 >> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
 >>> On 12/08/2023 13:12, Bart wrote:
 >>
 >>>
 >>>> Suppose you dispensed with all that dependency stuff; how long 
would it
 >>>> take to build such a project? Say compared with just compiling one
 >>>> module.
 >>>>
 >>>
 >>> That particular project takes a minute and a half to compile on my
 >>> laptop (it's faster on my main machine).  It's 373 compilations, 
perhaps
 >>> 40% of it C++.  Too long for convenience.
 >>
 >> My current project takes well over an hour to build on a single-core
 >> system.  With 32 cores and parallel make (-j32), that's reduced to
 >> less than ten minutes
 >
 > You don't get a 32x speedup then?
 >
 >> (quicker if not using -O3, since once source file
 >> takes 6 minutes itself to build with -O3, two minutes with -O0).
 >>
 >> Somewhere over two million lines of C and C++ in several hundred
 >> source files.
 >>
 >> Without makefiles and dependency checking, the project would likely
 >> not be feasible.
 >
 > Two million lines doesn't sound that huge. With -O0 that would take,
 > what, 12-15 minutes on one core? About 2.5K lines second; a rather
 > sluggish compiler then.
 >
 > I guess that must be due to C++? Or loads of header files?
 >
 > Because I get 15-20Klps for gcc on a machine that is undoubtedly slower
 > than yours (it's faster under WSL).
 >
 > I don't believe your source files are that small either: 2M lines over
 > 1000 files would average 2K lines per file.

I created a new folder with 1000 .c files each containing a 2000-line 
function.

Plus a 1001st file containing a main() function.

It took Tiny C - /on Windows/ - 3 seconds to turn that lot into an 
executable (26MB of source code into 34MB of binary), using tcc *.c.

So having 'hundreds' of files by itself is not a bottleneck.

I then tried it with `gcc *.c`. After 330 seconds, it failed with being 
unable to run 'collect2.exe'.

On WSL, 'gcc *.c' took 180 seconds, producing a 34MB executable.

I can't say I am surprised that you [SL but also you in general] use all 
means possible, like complex makefile dependencies, to say nothing of 
utilising 32 cores, to get anywhere near reasonable build times. But the 
underlying problem is not being addressed.

If using -O0 is viable, then look at a faster compiler. Both tcc and gcc 
(when it managed it) produced 34MB executables for my test.

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#172174 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2023-08-13 20:41 +0000
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<jebCM.170112$ens9.28807@fx45.iad>
In reply to#172170
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>On 13/08/2023 17:48, Bart wrote:
> > On 13/08/2023 17:02, Scott Lurndal wrote:

>
>If using -O0 is viable, then look at a faster compiler. Both tcc and gcc 
>(when it managed it) produced 34MB executables for my test.

Both of those compilers would choke in 10 seconds on any of this code.

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#172173 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2023-08-13 20:40 +0000
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<tdbCM.170111$ens9.69973@fx45.iad>
In reply to#172168
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>On 13/08/2023 17:02, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>> On 12/08/2023 13:12, Bart wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>>> Suppose you dispensed with all that dependency stuff; how long would it
>>>> take to build such a project? Say compared with just compiling one module.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That particular project takes a minute and a half to compile on my
>>> laptop (it's faster on my main machine).  It's 373 compilations, perhaps
>>> 40% of it C++.  Too long for convenience.
>> 
>> My current project takes well over an hour to build on a single-core
>> system.  With 32 cores and parallel make (-j32), that's reduced to
>> less than ten minutes
>
>You don't get a 32x speedup then?

Compiler workloads are generally I/O bound.  And as I pointed out,
there is one source file that takes six minutes (although that one
is mostly CPU-bound optimizing the intermediate representation
tree).



>
>> (quicker if not using -O3, since once source file
>> takes 6 minutes itself to build with -O3, two minutes with -O0).
>> 
>> Somewhere over two million lines of C and C++ in several hundred
>> source files.
>> 
>> Without makefiles and dependency checking, the project would likely
>> not be feasible.
>
>Two million lines doesn't sound that huge. With -O0 that would take, 
>what, 12-15 minutes on one core? About 2.5K lines second; a rather 
>sluggish compiler then.

Ah, I was off by a factor of three.  I hadn't checked recently

$ sloccount .  (subdirectory names anonymized)

SLOC    Directory       SLOC-by-Language (Sorted)
7097238 include         ansic=7056951,cpp=40287
884599  tests           python=748519,ansic=82789,asm=34873,cpp=18013,sh=405
881989  dir             cpp=599779,ansic=281116,python=466,sh=324,asm=304
133020  dir2            cpp=132978,python=42
132319  dir3            cpp=130832,python=1487
25866   tools           python=16894,cpp=4300,sh=1900,ansic=1459,perl=1205,
                        ruby=108
16754   gen             ansic=16754
10640   dir7            cpp=10640
8190    common          cpp=8190
2024    dir4            cpp=2024
2020    top_dir         cpp=2020
1430    dir5            cpp=1430
560     dir6            cpp=560



Totals grouped by language (dominant language first):
ansic:      7439069 (80.84%)
cpp:         956171 (10.39%)
python:      767580 (8.34%)
asm:          35177 (0.38%)
sh:            2629 (0.03%)
perl:          1205 (0.01%)
ruby:           108 (0.00%)




Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC)                = 9,201,939
Development Effort Estimate, Person-Years (Person-Months) = 2,904.71 (34,856.56)
 (Basic COCOMO model, Person-Months = 2.4 * (KSLOC**1.05))
Schedule Estimate, Years (Months)                         = 11.09 (133.05)
 (Basic COCOMO model, Months = 2.5 * (person-months**0.38))
Estimated Average Number of Developers (Effort/Schedule)  = 261.98
Total Estimated Cost to Develop                           = $ 392,387,299
 (average salary = $56,286/year, overhead = 2.40).
SLOCCount, Copyright (C) 2001-2004 David A. Wheeler
SLOCCount is Open Source Software/Free Software, licensed under the GNU GPL.
SLOCCount comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, and you are welcome to
redistribute it under certain conditions as specified by the GNU GPL license;
see the documentation for details.
Please credit this data as "generated using David A. Wheeler's 'SLOCCount'."

>
>I guess that must be due to C++? Or loads of header files?
>
>Because I get 15-20Klps for gcc on a machine that is undoubtedly slower 
>than yours (it's faster under WSL).
>
>I don't believe your source files are that small either: 2M lines over 
>1000 files would average 2K lines per file.

There are a number of C++ source files larger than that, yes.

The bulk of the include files are machine generated, which makes the
cost estimate by David's sloccount unreliable.

Compiled with the GNU Compiler Collection.

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#172194 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromKaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Date2023-08-14 04:28 +0000
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<20230813210925.583@kylheku.com>
In reply to#172173
On 2023-08-13, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>On 13/08/2023 17:02, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>> On 12/08/2023 13:12, Bart wrote:
>>> 
>>>>
>>>>> Suppose you dispensed with all that dependency stuff; how long would it
>>>>> take to build such a project? Say compared with just compiling one module.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That particular project takes a minute and a half to compile on my
>>>> laptop (it's faster on my main machine).  It's 373 compilations, perhaps
>>>> 40% of it C++.  Too long for convenience.
>>> 
>>> My current project takes well over an hour to build on a single-core
>>> system.  With 32 cores and parallel make (-j32), that's reduced to
>>> less than ten minutes
>>
>>You don't get a 32x speedup then?
>
> Compiler workloads are generally I/O bound.

Not really. E.g. if you use ccache, and everything is a hit,
it's "lightning fast" just to copy the .o files from the cache.

I just compared a build:

From ccache: 1.0s.

Actual compile: 96s.

I.e. 96x faster to pull .o from the cache after preprocessing the
translation unit and taking a hash of it and the compiler options to
look it up.

(Everything is "cache hot" in terms of VM.)

How is the makefile structured? Is it all one big dependency
tree or is there recursion?

If there is a top Makefile which has recipes that sequentially
walk through subdirectories and call $(MAKE), that can throttle
the parallel build. If a directory has fewer than 32 items,
the full parallelism won't be realized, and it has to be
done before the next subdirectory.

For high parallelization, the best thing is one large dependency tree.

The second is recursing in parallel into sub-makefiles, using
parallelizable rules rather than scripted execution.

Sub-makes communicate with the top make to keep the total jobs in the
submakes within the -j parameter. I think the top make runs a
job server that the submakes use, or something like that.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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#172230 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2023-08-14 15:52 +0000
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<q5sCM.59052$m8Ke.36345@fx08.iad>
In reply to#172194
Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> writes:
>On 2023-08-13, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>On 13/08/2023 17:02, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>>> On 12/08/2023 13:12, Bart wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>> Suppose you dispensed with all that dependency stuff; how long would it
>>>>>> take to build such a project? Say compared with just compiling one module.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That particular project takes a minute and a half to compile on my
>>>>> laptop (it's faster on my main machine).  It's 373 compilations, perhaps
>>>>> 40% of it C++.  Too long for convenience.
>>>> 
>>>> My current project takes well over an hour to build on a single-core
>>>> system.  With 32 cores and parallel make (-j32), that's reduced to
>>>> less than ten minutes
>>>
>>>You don't get a 32x speedup then?
>>
>> Compiler workloads are generally I/O bound.
>
>Not really. E.g. if you use ccache, and everything is a hit,
>it's "lightning fast" just to copy the .o files from the cache.

We've used ccache, and had enough problems with it that we
abandoned it.

Using dependencies means that only files with changes get
rebuilt, and that's sufficient.


>
>If there is a top Makefile which has recipes that sequentially
>walk through subdirectories and call $(MAKE)

Why would one write a makefile to serialize the subdirectories?

The should be (and in our case are) fully independent.

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#172231 — Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c?

FromKaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Date2023-08-14 16:06 +0000
SubjectRe: you think rust may *DE*throne c?
Message-ID<20230814090331.271@kylheku.com>
In reply to#172230
On 2023-08-14, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> writes:
>>On 2023-08-13, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>On 13/08/2023 17:02, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>>>> On 12/08/2023 13:12, Bart wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Suppose you dispensed with all that dependency stuff; how long would it
>>>>>>> take to build such a project? Say compared with just compiling one module.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That particular project takes a minute and a half to compile on my
>>>>>> laptop (it's faster on my main machine).  It's 373 compilations, perhaps
>>>>>> 40% of it C++.  Too long for convenience.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My current project takes well over an hour to build on a single-core
>>>>> system.  With 32 cores and parallel make (-j32), that's reduced to
>>>>> less than ten minutes
>>>>
>>>>You don't get a 32x speedup then?
>>>
>>> Compiler workloads are generally I/O bound.
>>
>>Not really. E.g. if you use ccache, and everything is a hit,
>>it's "lightning fast" just to copy the .o files from the cache.
>
> We've used ccache, and had enough problems with it that we
> abandoned it.

For my purposes, I'm not running into the problem; ccache
is working.

Subtly broken or not, for the present purposes, it shows that two orders
of magnitude of run-time can get saved by hashing the translation unit
and just copying canned .o files.

> Using dependencies means that only files with changes get
> rebuilt, and that's sufficient.
>
>
>>
>>If there is a top Makefile which has recipes that sequentially
>>walk through subdirectories and call $(MAKE)
>
> Why would one write a makefile to serialize the subdirectories?
>
> The should be (and in our case are) fully independent.

I wouldn't myself, but such recursive make systems are out there
in the wild.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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