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Groups > comp.lang.c > #172151 > unrolled thread

Build Systems

Started byBart <bc@freeuk.com>
First post2023-08-13 14:53 +0100
Last post2023-08-29 04:43 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 306 — 31 participants

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Contents

  Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 14:53 +0100
    Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-13 21:45 +0100
      Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 23:43 +0100
        Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-14 01:16 +0100
          Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-14 00:46 +0000
            Re: Build Systems gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-14 01:05 +0000
              Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 18:59 -0700
                Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-14 02:44 +0000
                  Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 20:53 -0700
                  Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) Matthew Ernisse <matt@going-flying.com> - 2023-08-17 22:00 +0000
                    Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-18 03:51 -0700
                    Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 04:58 -0700
                      Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) Matthew Ernisse <matt@going-flying.com> - 2023-08-18 13:02 +0000
                    Re: Dev on Windoze Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-20 16:14 +0300
                      Re: Dev on Windoze "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 11:05 -0700
                  Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 16:16 -0700
              Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 04:03 +0000
                Re: Build Systems gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-14 10:14 +0000
                  Re: Build Systems Karl Meyer <karlmeyer25@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 05:16 -0700
            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-14 10:35 +0100
      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-14 15:06 +0200
        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-14 14:58 +0100
          Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-14 15:49 +0000
            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-14 18:00 +0100
              Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 11:00 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 11:40 +0100
                  Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 15:21 +0200
                    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 16:11 +0100
                      Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 15:39 +0000
                      Re: Build Systems MJ OS_EXAMINE <m6502x64@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 08:58 -0700
                        Re: Build Systems gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-15 16:44 +0000
                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 20:00 +0100
                      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 18:03 +0200
                        Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 17:01 +0000
                          Re: Build Systems gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-15 17:07 +0000
                          Re: Build Systems Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-15 23:17 +0300
                          Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 22:57 +0200
                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 18:49 +0100
                          Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 13:13 -0700
                          Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 23:09 +0200
                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 23:36 +0100
                              Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 15:55 -0700
                                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 01:05 +0100
                                  Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-16 01:39 +0000
                                  Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 11:37 +0200
                                    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 12:15 +0100
                                      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 15:16 +0200
                                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 16:34 +0100
                                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 18:07 +0100
                                          Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-16 17:43 +0000
                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 18:51 +0100
                                          Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-16 21:26 +0100
                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 22:25 +0100
                                              Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-17 00:15 +0100
                                                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 01:02 +0100
                                              Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-17 02:56 +0100
                                                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 11:21 +0100
                                                  Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-17 21:26 +0100
                                                    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 23:40 +0100
                                                      Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-19 00:43 +0100
                                          Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-17 15:45 +0200
                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-18 00:24 +0100
                                              Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-17 17:46 -0700
                                                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-17 18:29 -0700
                                                  Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-17 19:13 -0700
                                                    Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 14:55 +0200
                                                      Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 14:34 -0700
                                                        Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 14:34 -0700
                                                        Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 15:19 -0700
                                                          Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 15:43 -0700
                                                        Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-19 13:19 +0200
                                                          Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 20:56 -0700
                                                          Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 20:57 -0700
                                                            Re: Build Systems "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-08-27 00:01 -0700
                                                              Re: Build Systems candycane@f172.n1.z21.fsxnet (candycane) - 2023-08-27 03:34 +1300
                                                              Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-27 08:32 +0000
                                                                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-27 16:58 +0200
                                                                  Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-27 11:58 -0700
                                                            Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-27 16:52 +0200
                                                              Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-27 11:59 -0700
                                              Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-18 01:49 +0000
                                                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 02:19 -0700
                                                  Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-19 01:21 +0100
                                                    Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 18:36 -0700
                                                      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-19 13:51 +0200
                                                        Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 05:35 -0700
                                                      Re: Build Systems Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 00:35 -0700
                                                        Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 09:54 -0700
                                                          Re: Build Systems Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 12:30 -0700
                                                            Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 13:44 -0700
                                                              Re: Build Systems Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 17:58 -0700
                                                                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 02:28 +0100
                                                                  Re: Build Systems Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 00:12 -0700
                                                                    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 11:13 +0100
                                                                      Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 11:36 +0100
                                                                        Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 13:37 +0100
                                                                          Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 13:51 +0100
                                                                      Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 14:51 +0000
                                                                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 17:19 +0100
                                                                          Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 09:30 -0700
                                                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 17:51 +0100
                                                                          Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 16:36 +0000
                                                                          Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 16:50 +0000
                                                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 18:06 +0100
                                                                              Re: Build Systems kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-22 20:46 +0000
                                                                          Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 12:47 -0700
                                                                          Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 21:06 -0700
                                                                    Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-22 17:04 +0000
                                                      Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-20 00:10 +0100
                                                        Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 17:50 -0700
                                                          Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-20 20:48 +0100
                                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-20 22:07 +0100
                                                              Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-21 00:51 +0100
                                                                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 01:26 +0100
                                                                  Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 02:02 +0100
                                                                    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 02:07 +0100
                                                                  Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-21 03:13 +0100
                                                                    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 11:09 +0100
                                                                      Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 13:12 +0100
                                                                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 14:12 +0100
                                                                          Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 14:47 +0100
                                                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 19:06 +0100
                                                                              Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-21 18:40 +0000
                                                                                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 14:39 -0700
                                                                              Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 12:23 -0700
                                                                          Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 21:55 +0100
                                                                      Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-22 01:31 +0100
                                                                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 02:18 +0100
                                                                          Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 14:41 +0000
                                                                            Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 08:03 -0700
                                                                              Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 15:33 +0000
                                                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 16:20 +0100
                                                                              Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 15:40 +0000
                                                                                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 17:03 +0100
                                                                          Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-23 03:18 +0100
                                                                            Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 19:51 -0700
                                                                              Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-25 02:23 +0100
                                                                                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-24 21:24 -0700
                                                                                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-25 11:31 +0200
                                                                                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-25 10:53 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-25 13:55 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-25 13:54 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-25 20:55 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-25 20:49 -0700
                                                                            Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-23 08:42 +0100
                                                                              Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-23 11:37 +0100
                                                                                Re: Build Systems Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-08-23 14:02 +0300
                                                                                  Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-23 15:02 +0100
                                                                              Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-25 02:17 +0100
                                                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-23 14:28 +0100
                                                                              Re: Build Systems Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-08-23 19:54 +0300
                                                                                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-23 19:33 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-23 21:13 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-23 23:09 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-24 15:32 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-24 15:51 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-24 18:58 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-24 18:29 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Build Systems vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2023-08-24 20:41 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-24 23:08 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Build Systems Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2023-08-25 17:22 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Build Systems Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-25 16:39 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-25 16:54 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-25 17:02 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Build Systems Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2023-08-25 19:21 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-25 18:56 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-24 11:44 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-24 18:47 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-24 21:20 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-24 22:59 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-25 02:18 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-24 20:17 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Build Systems Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-08-24 16:30 +0300
                                                                                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-23 17:43 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-23 20:15 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Build Systems Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-08-26 18:19 +0300
                                                                                    Re: Build Systems Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-26 21:47 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Build Systems Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-08-28 11:31 +0300
                                                                                        Re: Build Systems Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-28 06:48 -0700
                                                                              Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-25 02:11 +0100
                                                                                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-25 11:27 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-25 13:52 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-25 15:40 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-25 20:04 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Build Systems candycane@f172.n1.z21.fsxnet (candycane) - 2023-08-26 00:47 +1300
                                                                                  Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-25 21:26 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-26 01:42 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-27 01:16 +0100
                                                                              Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-25 05:51 +0000
                                                                                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-24 23:17 -0700
                                                                  Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-21 02:52 +0000
                                                                    Re: Build Systems vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2023-08-21 03:02 +0000
                                                                      Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-21 06:05 +0000
                                                                        Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-21 11:32 +0100
                                                    Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-19 14:42 +0000
                                                      Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 08:09 -0700
                                                        Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-19 15:59 +0000
                                                          Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 09:38 -0700
                                                            Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-19 18:16 +0000
                                                              Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-19 21:02 +0000
                                                              Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 14:13 -0700
                                                        Re: Build Systems Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-08-19 19:10 +0000
                                                        Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-19 21:00 +0000
                                                          Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 14:22 -0700
                                                          Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 17:56 -0700
                                                            Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 18:13 -0700
                                                              Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-20 14:13 +0200
                                                                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 06:05 -0700
                                                                  Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-20 16:15 +0200
                                                                    Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 09:25 -0700
                                                                      Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 13:35 -0700
                                                                      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-21 14:43 +0200
                                                                        Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 05:52 -0700
                                                                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 14:30 +0100
                                                                          Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 15:18 -0700
                                                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 23:26 +0100
                                                                              Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 16:11 -0700
                                                                      Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 14:47 -0700
                                                                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 23:20 +0100
                                                                          Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 15:45 -0700
                                                                            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 00:57 +0100
                                                                  Re: Build Systems vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2023-08-20 14:24 +0000
                                                                    Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 09:09 -0700
                                                            Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-20 17:28 +0000
                                                      Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-19 20:26 +0100
                                              Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 14:50 +0200
                                                Re: Build Systems Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-08-18 13:19 +0000
                                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 17:16 +0100
                                          Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 17:24 +0100
                                          Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 15:32 +0200
                                            Re: Build Systems Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-18 07:22 -0700
                                            Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 07:48 -0700
                                              Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 17:11 +0200
                                                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 08:58 -0700
                                                  Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 16:32 -0700
                                                    Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 04:02 -0700
                                                      Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 12:26 -0700
                                                  Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-19 13:56 +0200
                                                    Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 05:43 -0700
                              Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 11:23 +0200
                                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 02:34 -0700
                                  Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 12:52 +0200
                                    Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 03:56 -0700
                                      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 13:23 +0200
                                    Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 12:55 -0700
                                      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-17 15:52 +0200
                                    Re: Build Systems Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-17 02:14 -0700
                                      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-17 15:56 +0200
                                      Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-17 16:01 +0000
                                        Re: Build Systems Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-17 09:07 -0700
                                          Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-17 16:20 +0000
                                            Re: Build Systems Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-17 09:31 -0700
                                              Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-17 17:24 +0000
                                        Re: Build Systems Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-19 14:06 +0300
                                          Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 04:39 -0700
                                            Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-19 16:46 +0200
                                              Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-19 16:00 +0000
                                                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-20 14:15 +0200
                                                  Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 07:25 -0700
                                                    Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-20 18:03 +0200
                                    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 19:51 +0100
                                      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 16:44 +0200
                                        Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 08:21 -0700
                                          Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-18 15:39 +0000
                                          Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 17:47 +0200
                                        Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 10:49 -0700
                                          Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-19 15:16 +0200
                                            Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 07:58 -0700
                                              Re: Build Systems Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-08-19 09:05 -0700
                      Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 12:48 -0700
                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 21:36 +0100
                          Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 21:43 +0100
                          Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 14:07 -0700
                            Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 12:46 +0200
                Really? (Was: Build Systems) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-15 13:15 +0000
          Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 09:54 +0200
            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 11:07 +0100
              Re: Build Systems Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-08-15 03:42 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 12:14 +0100
                  Re: Build Systems Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-08-15 05:53 -0700
                    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 15:57 +0100
                      Re: Build Systems Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-08-15 09:10 -0700
    Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-14 14:49 +0200
      Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-14 14:39 +0100
        Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 11:08 +0200
          Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 02:56 -0700
            Re: Build Systems Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-08-15 03:23 -0700
              Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 11:45 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 03:53 -0700
                  Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 13:15 +0100
                    Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 06:22 -0700
                      Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 01:20 +0100
                        Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 12:57 +0200
                          Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 12:19 +0100
                            Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 15:18 +0200
                        Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 18:12 +0100
                          Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 18:18 +0100
                          Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-16 17:45 +0000
            Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 15:30 +0200
              Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 06:58 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 14:06 +0000
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:08 +0200
          Re: Build Systems Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-15 21:46 +0100
      Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-14 15:48 +0000
    Re: Build Systems Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 12:16 -0700
    Re: Build Systems Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-29 04:43 -0700

Page 11 of 16 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 … 16  Next page →


#172561

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-19 14:13 -0700
Message-ID<87h6ouivl8.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#172549
Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> writes:
[...]
> If you want to see what arguments are being passed to cc1, you can
> use the "strace" utility on Linux or similar syscall tracers elsewhere.

"gcc -v" shows the invoked programs and arguments.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#172550

FromIke Naar <ike@sdf.org>
Date2023-08-19 19:10 +0000
Message-ID<slrnue24s9.guj.ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
In reply to#172541
On 2023-08-19, bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 15:43:02 UTC+1, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Ben Bacarisse <ben.u...@bsb.me.uk> writes:
>> 
>> $ gcc -c -o a.o a.s 
>> 
>> is a perfectly legal and viable way to invoke the assembler. 
>> 
>> $ gcc -o a a.o 
>> 
>> is a perfectly legal and viable way to invoke the linker.
>
> You can run the assembler directly using 'as', and the linker using 'ld'.
>
> So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler? 

Running gcc with the -v or --verbose option will show the substeps it invokes.

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#172557

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2023-08-19 21:00 +0000
Message-ID<a4aEM.562364$SuUf.473875@fx14.iad>
In reply to#172541
bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> writes:
>On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 15:43:02 UTC+1, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Ben Bacarisse <ben.u...@bsb.me.uk> writes:
>> >bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes: 
>> > 
>> 
>> >> 
>> >> on those other programs is anathema. 
>> > 
>> >Well (if you are talking about having to say gcc prog.c rather than gcc 
>> >prog) there are advantages, and none of them have anything to do with 
>> >how much one has to type. After all, command completion means I rarely 
>> >type a file name explcitly anyway. 
>> >
>> It's worth repeating that 'gcc' is a driver program, not a compiler. 
>> 
>> So: 
>> 
>> $ gcc -c -o a.o a.s 
>> 
>> is a perfectly legal and viable way to invoke the assembler. 
>> 
>> $ gcc -o a a.o 
>> 
>> is a perfectly legal and viable way to invoke the linker.
>
>You can run the assembler directly using 'as', and the linker using 'ld'.
>
>So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler? 

As if you don't already know.

 $ gcc -o a.o a.c

or

 $ gcc -o a a.c

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#172562

Frombart c <bart4858@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-19 14:22 -0700
Message-ID<43c6a219-ad2c-4df7-8fdf-ec6c9aa54ad3n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#172557
On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 22:01:09 UTC+1, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes: 
> >On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 15:43:02 UTC+1, Scott Lurndal wrote: 
> >> Ben Bacarisse <ben.u...@bsb.me.uk> writes: 
> >> >bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes: 
> >> > 
> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> on those other programs is anathema. 
> >> > 
> >> >Well (if you are talking about having to say gcc prog.c rather than gcc 
> >> >prog) there are advantages, and none of them have anything to do with 
> >> >how much one has to type. After all, command completion means I rarely 
> >> >type a file name explcitly anyway. 
> >> > 
> >> It's worth repeating that 'gcc' is a driver program, not a compiler. 
> >> 
> >> So: 
> >> 
> >> $ gcc -c -o a.o a.s 
> >> 
> >> is a perfectly legal and viable way to invoke the assembler. 
> >> 
> >> $ gcc -o a a.o 
> >> 
> >> is a perfectly legal and viable way to invoke the linker. 
> > 
> >You can run the assembler directly using 'as', and the linker using 'ld'. 
> > 
> >So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler?
> As if you don't already know. 
> 
> $ gcc -o a.o a.c 
> 
> or 
> 
> $ gcc -o a a.c

I thought you said gcc was the driver program?

I wonder why there has to be such a big mystery about gcc (like, is it an actual compiler), why it has to work that way, or why everything to do with building C has to revolve around how Unix and gcc (and cc before that) work. Is it all decreed in the C standard?

If I do this:

   pico hello.c

the process is entirely different. But it's still C.

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#172566

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-19 17:56 -0700
Message-ID<87cyziil9j.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#172557
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
>>So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler? 
>
> As if you don't already know.
>
>  $ gcc -o a.o a.c

That creates an executable named "a.o".  Bad idea.

> or
>
>  $ gcc -o a a.c

That invokes the compiler and the linker.

To invoke just the compiler:

    gcc -c a.c

which creates an object file named "a.o".  If for some odd reason you
want the object file to have a different name:

    gcc -c a.c -o foo.o

Giving an object file a name not ending in ".o" is almost certainly a
bad idea.  (That's for Unix-like systems; other systems might have a
different convention like ".obj".)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#172567

Frombart c <bart4858@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-19 18:13 -0700
Message-ID<c9837057-e084-4c5b-9d9a-e3ec316c2ecen@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#172566
On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 01:57:13 UTC+1, Keith Thompson wrote:
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes: 
> > bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes:
> [...]
> >>So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler? 
> > 
> > As if you don't already know. 
> > 
> > $ gcc -o a.o a.c
> That creates an executable named "a.o". Bad idea.
> > or 
> > 
> > $ gcc -o a a.c
> That invokes the compiler and the linker. 
> 
> To invoke just the compiler: 
> 
> gcc -c a.c 
> 
> which creates an object file named "a.o". If for some odd reason you 
> want the object file to have a different name: 
> 
> gcc -c a.c -o foo.o 
> 
> Giving an object file a name not ending in ".o" is almost certainly a 
> bad idea. (That's for Unix-like systems; other systems might have a 
> different convention like ".obj".)

Also, none of these /directly/ invoke the compiler. Using your suggestion, gcc uses an invocation like this, on Windows:

 C:/tdm/bin/../libexec/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/cc1.exe -quiet -v -iprefix C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/ -D_REENTRANT hello.c -quiet -dumpbase hello.c -mtune=generic -march=x86-64 -auxbase hello -version -o C:\Users\xxxxx\AppData\Local\Temp\ccJo76DR.s

It doesn't look very user friendly.

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#172573

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-20 14:13 +0200
Message-ID<ubt01p$1bhkn$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172567
On 20/08/2023 03:13, bart c wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 01:57:13 UTC+1, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>> bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes:
>> [...]
>>>> So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler?
>>>
>>> As if you don't already know.
>>>
>>> $ gcc -o a.o a.c
>> That creates an executable named "a.o". Bad idea.
>>> or
>>>
>>> $ gcc -o a a.c
>> That invokes the compiler and the linker.
>>
>> To invoke just the compiler:
>>
>> gcc -c a.c
>>
>> which creates an object file named "a.o". If for some odd reason you
>> want the object file to have a different name:
>>
>> gcc -c a.c -o foo.o
>>
>> Giving an object file a name not ending in ".o" is almost certainly a
>> bad idea. (That's for Unix-like systems; other systems might have a
>> different convention like ".obj".)
> 
> Also, none of these /directly/ invoke the compiler. Using your suggestion, gcc uses an invocation like this, on Windows:
> 
>   C:/tdm/bin/../libexec/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/cc1.exe -quiet -v -iprefix C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/ -D_REENTRANT hello.c -quiet -dumpbase hello.c -mtune=generic -march=x86-64 -auxbase hello -version -o C:\Users\xxxxx\AppData\Local\Temp\ccJo76DR.s
> 
> It doesn't look very user friendly.

It isn't user friendly - nor is it intended to be.  It is intended that 
you use "gcc" (or "g++", "gfortran", or other drivers that are 
convenient for other gcc languages) as the driver program that will then 
invoke "cc1" with whatever options are needed.  The options and 
interface for "cc1" are not considered user documentation - they are 
internal, might not be complete, and may change wildly between versions 
of gcc.  It is the options for "gcc" that are documented for user usage.

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#172575

Frombart c <bart4858@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-20 06:05 -0700
Message-ID<1075f829-1174-4456-b57d-74331cd61aa8n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#172573
On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 13:14:00 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
> On 20/08/2023 03:13, bart c wrote: 
> > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 01:57:13 UTC+1, Keith Thompson wrote: 
> >> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes: 
> >>> bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes: 
> >> [...] 
> >>>> So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler? 
> >>> 
> >>> As if you don't already know. 
> >>> 
> >>> $ gcc -o a.o a.c 
> >> That creates an executable named "a.o". Bad idea. 
> >>> or 
> >>> 
> >>> $ gcc -o a a.c 
> >> That invokes the compiler and the linker. 
> >> 
> >> To invoke just the compiler: 
> >> 
> >> gcc -c a.c 
> >> 
> >> which creates an object file named "a.o". If for some odd reason you 
> >> want the object file to have a different name: 
> >> 
> >> gcc -c a.c -o foo.o 
> >> 
> >> Giving an object file a name not ending in ".o" is almost certainly a 
> >> bad idea. (That's for Unix-like systems; other systems might have a 
> >> different convention like ".obj".) 
> > 
> > Also, none of these /directly/ invoke the compiler. Using your suggestion, gcc uses an invocation like this, on Windows: 
> > 
> > C:/tdm/bin/../libexec/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/cc1.exe -quiet -v -iprefix C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/ -D_REENTRANT hello.c -quiet -dumpbase hello.c -mtune=generic -march=x86-64 -auxbase hello -version -o C:\Users\xxxxx\AppData\Local\Temp\ccJo76DR.s 
> > 
> > It doesn't look very user friendly.
> It isn't user friendly - nor is it intended to be. It is intended that 
> you use "gcc" (or "g++", "gfortran", or other drivers that are 
> convenient for other gcc languages) as the driver program that will then 
> invoke "cc1" with whatever options are needed. The options and 
> interface for "cc1" are not considered user documentation - they are 
> internal, might not be complete, and may change wildly between versions 
> of gcc. It is the options for "gcc" that are documented for user usage.

How about 'ld'; is that supposed to be directly usable? The gcc -v option doesn't show the arguments to 'ld'; I have to determine those myself. For 'gcc hello.c', they are these (number `1 is the invocation):

1: C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/../../../../x86_64-w64-mingw32/bin/ld.exe
2: -plugin
3: C:/tdm/bin/../libexec/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/liblto_plugin-0.dll
4: -plugin-opt=C:/tdm/bin/../libexec/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/lto-wrapper.exe
5: -plugin-opt=-fresolution=C:\Users\44775\AppData\Local\Temp\ccZgT4Qq.res
6: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lmingw32
7: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lgcc
8: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lpthread
9: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lgcc
10: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lkernel32
11: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lmoldname
12: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lmingwex
13: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lmsvcrt
14: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lkernel32
15: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lpthread
16: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-ladvapi32
17: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lshell32
18: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-luser32
19: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lkernel32
20: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lmingw32
21: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lgcc
22: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lpthread
23: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lgcc
24: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lkernel32
25: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lmoldname
26: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lmingwex
27: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lmsvcrt
28: -plugin-opt=-pass-through=-lkernel32
29: -m
30: i386pep
31: --exclude-libs=libpthread.a
32: --undefined=__xl_f
33: -Bdynamic
34: C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/../../../../x86_64-w64-mingw32/lib/../lib/crt2.o
35: C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/crtbegin.o
36: -LC:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0
37: -LC:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc
38: -LC:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/../../../../x86_64-w64-mingw32/lib/../lib
39: -LC:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/../../../../lib
40: -LC:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/../../../../x86_64-w64-mingw32/lib
41: -LC:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/../../..
42: C:\Users\44775\AppData\Local\Temp\ccS1MzGi.o
43: -lmingw32
44: -lgcc
45: -lpthread
46: -lgcc
47: -lkernel32
48: -lmoldname
49: -lmingwex
50: -lmsvcrt
51: -lkernel32
52: -lpthread
53: -ladvapi32
54: -lshell32
55: -luser32
56: -lkernel32
57: -lmingw32
58: -lgcc
59: -lpthread
60: -lgcc
61: -lkernel32
62: -lmoldname
63: -lmingwex
64: -lmsvcrt
65: -lkernel32
66: C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/../../../../x86_64-w64-mingw32/lib/../lib/default-manifest.o
67: C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/crtend.o

(This is 10.3.0; 13.2 has 'only' 53.)

I suppose this is not really relevant, so long as somebody can climb to the top of this heap of complexity and plant a flag saying only 'Make`. Then it doesn't matter if its Mount Everest or an anthill. Or does it?

BTW 'gcc hello.c' creates a 367KB executable; 'tcc hello.c' created a 2KB executable. Just saying...

Maybe there is also a reason why -lgcc is specified four times.

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#172579

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-20 16:15 +0200
Message-ID<ubt762$1cngj$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172575
On 20/08/2023 15:05, bart c wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 13:14:00 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>> On 20/08/2023 03:13, bart c wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 01:57:13 UTC+1, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>>> bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> [...]
>>>>>> So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler?
>>>>>
>>>>> As if you don't already know.
>>>>>
>>>>> $ gcc -o a.o a.c
>>>> That creates an executable named "a.o". Bad idea.
>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>> $ gcc -o a a.c
>>>> That invokes the compiler and the linker.
>>>>
>>>> To invoke just the compiler:
>>>>
>>>> gcc -c a.c
>>>>
>>>> which creates an object file named "a.o". If for some odd reason you
>>>> want the object file to have a different name:
>>>>
>>>> gcc -c a.c -o foo.o
>>>>
>>>> Giving an object file a name not ending in ".o" is almost certainly a
>>>> bad idea. (That's for Unix-like systems; other systems might have a
>>>> different convention like ".obj".)
>>>
>>> Also, none of these /directly/ invoke the compiler. Using your suggestion, gcc uses an invocation like this, on Windows:
>>>
>>> C:/tdm/bin/../libexec/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/cc1.exe -quiet -v -iprefix C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/ -D_REENTRANT hello.c -quiet -dumpbase hello.c -mtune=generic -march=x86-64 -auxbase hello -version -o C:\Users\xxxxx\AppData\Local\Temp\ccJo76DR.s
>>>
>>> It doesn't look very user friendly.
>> It isn't user friendly - nor is it intended to be. It is intended that
>> you use "gcc" (or "g++", "gfortran", or other drivers that are
>> convenient for other gcc languages) as the driver program that will then
>> invoke "cc1" with whatever options are needed. The options and
>> interface for "cc1" are not considered user documentation - they are
>> internal, might not be complete, and may change wildly between versions
>> of gcc. It is the options for "gcc" that are documented for user usage.
> 
> How about 'ld'; is that supposed to be directly usable? 

"ld" is not part of gcc.  It is part of an independent project, 
binutils, that is often used alongside gcc.  (You know this, of course, 
and only feign ignorance.)  For user convenience, gcc configurations can 
generally invoke a system linker or other configured linker from the gcc 
driver program - and in many, but not all, gcc toolchains, that will be 
binutils "ld".

So "ld" is very much designed to be usable directly - you'll find 
documentation for it in the documentation for the "binutils" project.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#172590

Frombart c <bart4858@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-20 09:25 -0700
Message-ID<e4bf4e3c-eb09-45d9-8702-aebaa4f7d1c4n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#172579
On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:15:45 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
> On 20/08/2023 15:05, bart c wrote: 
> > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 13:14:00 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> >> On 20/08/2023 03:13, bart c wrote: 
> >>> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 01:57:13 UTC+1, Keith Thompson wrote: 
> >>>> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes: 
> >>>>> bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes: 
> >>>> [...] 
> >>>>>> So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler? 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> As if you don't already know. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> $ gcc -o a.o a.c 
> >>>> That creates an executable named "a.o". Bad idea. 
> >>>>> or 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> $ gcc -o a a.c 
> >>>> That invokes the compiler and the linker. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> To invoke just the compiler: 
> >>>> 
> >>>> gcc -c a.c 
> >>>> 
> >>>> which creates an object file named "a.o". If for some odd reason you 
> >>>> want the object file to have a different name: 
> >>>> 
> >>>> gcc -c a.c -o foo.o 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Giving an object file a name not ending in ".o" is almost certainly a 
> >>>> bad idea. (That's for Unix-like systems; other systems might have a 
> >>>> different convention like ".obj".) 
> >>> 
> >>> Also, none of these /directly/ invoke the compiler. Using your suggestion, gcc uses an invocation like this, on Windows: 
> >>> 
> >>> C:/tdm/bin/../libexec/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/cc1.exe -quiet -v -iprefix C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/ -D_REENTRANT hello.c -quiet -dumpbase hello.c -mtune=generic -march=x86-64 -auxbase hello -version -o C:\Users\xxxxx\AppData\Local\Temp\ccJo76DR.s 
> >>> 
> >>> It doesn't look very user friendly. 
> >> It isn't user friendly - nor is it intended to be. It is intended that 
> >> you use "gcc" (or "g++", "gfortran", or other drivers that are 
> >> convenient for other gcc languages) as the driver program that will then 
> >> invoke "cc1" with whatever options are needed. The options and 
> >> interface for "cc1" are not considered user documentation - they are 
> >> internal, might not be complete, and may change wildly between versions 
> >> of gcc. It is the options for "gcc" that are documented for user usage. 
> > 
> > How about 'ld'; is that supposed to be directly usable?
> "ld" is not part of gcc. It is part of an independent project, 
> binutils, that is often used alongside gcc. (You know this, of course, 
> and only feign ignorance.)

Why 'of course'?  Is gcc the only C implementation on the planet?

The C compilers I've used most often are complete, self-contained solutions. Mine doesn't even have or use a linker.

Why is so much is made of the idiosyncratic way that C works on Unix systems? Who cares that 'as' is in compartment A, cc1 is in B, ld is in C, the standard headers is in D1 and may D2, the runtime is E, gcc itself is F, and 'make' is, what, G? Just build the effing program!

When I install gcc on Windows, I really, really don't care how it's organised or who is responsible for what. It should take source code at one end, and output binaries at the other.

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#172598

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-20 13:35 -0700
Message-ID<87zg2lh2pv.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#172590
bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> Why is so much is made of the idiosyncratic way that C works on Unix
> systems?

Because you keep complaining about it and misrepresenting it.

If you stop posting about it, the discussion will die out.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#172622

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-21 14:43 +0200
Message-ID<ubvm5c$1ta8d$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172590
On 20/08/2023 18:25, bart c wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:15:45 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>> On 20/08/2023 15:05, bart c wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 13:14:00 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 20/08/2023 03:13, bart c wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 01:57:13 UTC+1, Keith Thompson
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>>>>> bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>> So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As if you don't already know.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> $ gcc -o a.o a.c
>>>>>> That creates an executable named "a.o". Bad idea.
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> $ gcc -o a a.c
>>>>>> That invokes the compiler and the linker.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To invoke just the compiler:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> gcc -c a.c
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> which creates an object file named "a.o". If for some odd
>>>>>> reason you want the object file to have a different name:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> gcc -c a.c -o foo.o
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Giving an object file a name not ending in ".o" is almost
>>>>>> certainly a bad idea. (That's for Unix-like systems; other
>>>>>> systems might have a different convention like ".obj".)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, none of these /directly/ invoke the compiler. Using
>>>>> your suggestion, gcc uses an invocation like this, on
>>>>> Windows:
>>>>> 
>>>>> C:/tdm/bin/../libexec/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/cc1.exe
>>>>> -quiet -v -iprefix
>>>>> C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/ -D_REENTRANT
>>>>> hello.c -quiet -dumpbase hello.c -mtune=generic -march=x86-64
>>>>> -auxbase hello -version -o
>>>>> C:\Users\xxxxx\AppData\Local\Temp\ccJo76DR.s
>>>>> 
>>>>> It doesn't look very user friendly.
>>>> It isn't user friendly - nor is it intended to be. It is
>>>> intended that you use "gcc" (or "g++", "gfortran", or other
>>>> drivers that are convenient for other gcc languages) as the
>>>> driver program that will then invoke "cc1" with whatever
>>>> options are needed. The options and interface for "cc1" are not
>>>> considered user documentation - they are internal, might not be
>>>> complete, and may change wildly between versions of gcc. It is
>>>> the options for "gcc" that are documented for user usage.
>>> 
>>> How about 'ld'; is that supposed to be directly usable?
>> "ld" is not part of gcc. It is part of an independent project, 
>> binutils, that is often used alongside gcc. (You know this, of
>> course, and only feign ignorance.)
> 
> Why 'of course'?  Is gcc the only C implementation on the planet?

The "of course" is because you know that gcc is a compiler (or multiple 
compilers), with the actual "gcc" executable being a driver program. 
You know the compiler does not include the C standard library, OS 
headers, an assembler or a linker.  You know that "as" and "ld" are 
commonly used with gcc, and are part of the binutils project, not part 
of the GCC project.  You know all this because it has been explained to 
you, patiently, countless times.  Any attempts to claim otherwise are 
just trolling on your part - more feeble attempts to make it look like 
there is a problem with gcc rather than a problem with you.

> 
> The C compilers I've used most often are complete, self-contained
> solutions. Mine doesn't even have or use a linker.

Then it is not a C compiler - it is a tool that includes a C compiler 
amongst other things.

Self-contained toolchains can often be a useful solution, and it is 
common to see compilers packaged alongside a library, assembler, linker, 
librarian, and perhaps other tools such as a debugger and profiler.  If 
the packaging is for Windows, basic common utilities (such as make, a 
decent shell, and common POSIX cli programs) are also common.

But as you know, many C compilers - gcc, clang, icc, and others - are 
merely parts of C implementations.  For most users, it really doesn't 
matter as long as they have all the working parts - relatively few C 
developers care about the details of their assembler or linker.


> 
> Why is so much is made of the idiosyncratic way that C works on Unix
> systems? Who cares that 'as' is in compartment A, cc1 is in B, ld is
> in C, the standard headers is in D1 and may D2, the runtime is E, gcc
> itself is F, and 'make' is, what, G? Just build the effing program!

The people developing the tools care.

I agree that most users - C programmers in this case - often don't care. 
  They usually get all the parts from the same source - "apt-get 
install", or download mingw64, or get a cross-compiler toolchain from a 
microcontroller manufacturer's website.

However, if you want to mix and match parts, as you seem to do, it helps 
to know what the parts are and where they come from.  (And if you didn't 
mean to mix and match, then it helps to know what you did wrong.)

And you specifically asked about "ld", so I answered your question. 
Shooting the messenger and getting in a fluster just because your little 
tool combines a C compiler and linker in one program is not particularly 
helpful.


> 
> When I install gcc on Windows, I really, really don't care how it's
> organised or who is responsible for what. It should take source code
> at one end, and output binaries at the other.
> 

Oh, but you /do/ care.  You care a great deal - you care that it 
/fails/, no matter how hard you have to work in order to make that happen.

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#172624

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-21 05:52 -0700
Message-ID<ec114b45-5026-43c9-aadd-f33e0bbfc8ben@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#172622
On Monday, 21 August 2023 at 13:43:39 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
> On 20/08/2023 18:25, bart c wrote: 
> > On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 15:15:45 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> >> On 20/08/2023 15:05, bart c wrote: 
> >>> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 13:14:00 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> >>>> On 20/08/2023 03:13, bart c wrote: 
> >>>>> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 01:57:13 UTC+1, Keith Thompson 
> >>>>> wrote: 
> >>>>>> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes: 
> >>>>>>> bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes: 
> >>>>>> [...] 
> >>>>>>>> So how do you directly invoke the actual C compiler? 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> As if you don't already know. 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> $ gcc -o a.o a.c 
> >>>>>> That creates an executable named "a.o". Bad idea. 
> >>>>>>> or 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> $ gcc -o a a.c 
> >>>>>> That invokes the compiler and the linker. 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> To invoke just the compiler: 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> gcc -c a.c 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> which creates an object file named "a.o". If for some odd 
> >>>>>> reason you want the object file to have a different name: 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> gcc -c a.c -o foo.o 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Giving an object file a name not ending in ".o" is almost 
> >>>>>> certainly a bad idea. (That's for Unix-like systems; other 
> >>>>>> systems might have a different convention like ".obj".) 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Also, none of these /directly/ invoke the compiler. Using 
> >>>>> your suggestion, gcc uses an invocation like this, on 
> >>>>> Windows: 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> C:/tdm/bin/../libexec/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/cc1.exe 
> >>>>> -quiet -v -iprefix 
> >>>>> C:/tdm/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-w64-mingw32/10.3.0/ -D_REENTRANT 
> >>>>> hello.c -quiet -dumpbase hello.c -mtune=generic -march=x86-64 
> >>>>> -auxbase hello -version -o 
> >>>>> C:\Users\xxxxx\AppData\Local\Temp\ccJo76DR.s 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> It doesn't look very user friendly. 
> >>>> It isn't user friendly - nor is it intended to be. It is 
> >>>> intended that you use "gcc" (or "g++", "gfortran", or other 
> >>>> drivers that are convenient for other gcc languages) as the 
> >>>> driver program that will then invoke "cc1" with whatever 
> >>>> options are needed. The options and interface for "cc1" are not 
> >>>> considered user documentation - they are internal, might not be 
> >>>> complete, and may change wildly between versions of gcc. It is 
> >>>> the options for "gcc" that are documented for user usage. 
> >>> 
> >>> How about 'ld'; is that supposed to be directly usable? 
> >> "ld" is not part of gcc. It is part of an independent project, 
> >> binutils, that is often used alongside gcc. (You know this, of 
> >> course, and only feign ignorance.) 
> > 
> > Why 'of course'? Is gcc the only C implementation on the planet?
> The "of course" is because you know that gcc is a compiler (or multiple 
> compilers), with the actual "gcc" executable being a driver program. 
> You know the compiler does not include the C standard library, OS 
> headers, an assembler or a linker. You know that "as" and "ld" are 
> commonly used with gcc, and are part of the binutils project, not part 
> of the GCC project. You know all this because it has been explained to 
> you, patiently, countless times. Any attempts to claim otherwise are 
> just trolling on your part - more feeble attempts to make it look like 
> there is a problem with gcc rather than a problem with you.
> > 
> > The C compilers I've used most often are complete, self-contained 
> > solutions. Mine doesn't even have or use a linker.
> Then it is not a C compiler - it is a tool that includes a C compiler 
> amongst other things. 
> 
A compiler translates from one computer language to another.
S a program which takes in C source and spits out Fortran would be a
Co to Fortran compiler. One that spits out object code, like gcc, is a C
to object code compiler. But one that spits out executable machine 
code, like Bart's appears to do, would also be a C compiler. 

Often of course C is a target language of compilers. It's very common
to devise a high level language and then write a whizzylang to C compiler
for it. You then leverage C's popularity to make whizzylang run almost
anywhere.

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#172627

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-08-21 14:30 +0100
Message-ID<ubvosp$1tqed$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172622
On 21/08/2023 13:43, David Brown wrote:
> On 20/08/2023 18:25, bart c wrote:

>> Why 'of course'?  Is gcc the only C implementation on the planet?
> 
> The "of course" is because you know that gcc is a compiler (or multiple 
> compilers), with the actual "gcc" executable being a driver program.

Isn't that part supposed to be transparent? Somebody could rewrite gcc 
as an all-in-one program (or rename tcc.exe to gcc.exe).

> You 
> know the compiler does not include the C standard library, OS headers, 
> an assembler or a linker.

I once used Clang for 18 months before I realised it was using gcc's 
headers and linker. Then it switch to piggybacking onto MS tools, even 
though it's quite a hefty app already. Since then it has rarely worked.

   You know that "as" and "ld" are commonly used
> with gcc, and are part of the binutils project, not part of the GCC 
> project.  You know all this because it has been explained to you, 
> patiently, countless times.  Any attempts to claim otherwise are just 
> trolling on your part - more feeble attempts to make it look like there 
> is a problem with gcc rather than a problem with you.
> 
>>
>> The C compilers I've used most often are complete, self-contained
>> solutions. Mine doesn't even have or use a linker.
> 
> Then it is not a C compiler - it is a tool that includes a C compiler 
> amongst other things.

So what /is/ a C compiler? What exactly does it comprise? What, exactly, 
does it do?

Does it really not include stdio.h? Where would you even get stdio.h, or 
windows.h, if supplied separately?


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#172641

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-21 15:18 -0700
Message-ID<87il98ghta.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#172627
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
[...]
> So what /is/ a C compiler? What exactly does it comprise? What,
> exactly, does it do?
>
> Does it really not include stdio.h? Where would you even get stdio.h,
> or windows.h, if supplied separately?

This has been patiently explained to you many times.  I would answer if
I believed you were interested in learning from an answer.  I don't.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#172643

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-08-21 23:26 +0100
Message-ID<uc0ob5$22t1l$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172641
On 21/08/2023 23:18, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> [...]
>> So what /is/ a C compiler? What exactly does it comprise? What,
>> exactly, does it do?
>>
>> Does it really not include stdio.h? Where would you even get stdio.h,
>> or windows.h, if supplied separately?
> 
> This has been patiently explained to you many times.  I would answer if
> I believed you were interested in learning from an answer.  I don't.
> 

I'm interested in knowing the answer. (But I'm more interested in 
knowing why you think I would know it. I had to create my own headers! 
So there was an easy resource to download them from; who knew?)

So where DO the standard headers for a Windows C compiler come from?

Where does windows.h come from, as that is also required? I don't 
believe every compiler pinches them from the Windows SDK, as they are 
all different, from 20K lines to 200K lines, from one header file, to 
165 unique headers.

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#172646

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-21 16:11 -0700
Message-ID<87a5ukgfdg.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#172643
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 21/08/2023 23:18, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> [...]
>>> So what /is/ a C compiler? What exactly does it comprise? What,
>>> exactly, does it do?
>>>
>>> Does it really not include stdio.h? Where would you even get stdio.h,
>>> or windows.h, if supplied separately?
>>
>> This has been patiently explained to you many times.  I would answer
>> if I believed you were interested in learning from an answer.  I
>> don't.
>
> I'm interested in knowing the answer. (But I'm more interested in
> knowing why you think I would know it. I had to create my own headers! 
> So there was an easy resource to download them from; who knew?)

stdio.h really is not part of the compiler.  Both stdio.h and a C
compiler are part of a C implementation.

That's the part that I'm saying has been patiently explained to you.
The details of where stdio.h comes from for a given implementation
are a different matter.  I should have made that distinction more
clearly.

(A C compiler could implement the standard headers internally,
so that its response to `#include <stdio.h>` would be to insert a
collection of symbols internally rather than reaading an external
file.  That would be an odd implementation, but it could be perfectly
valid.  But it would still need to be able to use other headers.)

The C standard (I'm sure you have a copy of a draft) specifies
8 translation phases in section 5.1.1.2 (the number might vary
in different editions).  Phases 1-4 (or maybe 1-5 or 1-6) are
typically implemented in a preprocessor, though it doesn't have to
be a separate program.  Phases 1-7 are the compiler.  Phase 8 is
the linker.  The standard specifically says that many of the phases
are typically folded together; an implementation must behave *as if*
it implemented the phases as described.

Can you acknowledge that you understand that?  It could save some time
in future discussions.

I don't know what headers you say you had to create.  If you're
creating a complete C implementation, you might have to write
your own standard headers if none of the existing ones suited
your purposes.

> So where DO the standard headers for a Windows C compiler come from?

It depends on the particular implementation.

Probably the most popular C development system for Windows
is Microsoft Visual Studio (though it's mostly used for C++).
It includes multiple components, all installed together, including
a compiler, libraries, header files, a linker, etc. -- and of course
an IDE with a lot of bells and whistles.

> Where does windows.h come from, as that is also required? I don't
> believe every compiler pinches them from the Windows SDK, as they are 
> all different, from 20K lines to 200K lines, from one header file, to
> 165 unique headers.

Again, it depends on the implementation.  ("windows.h" is very probably
a single file; it may #include other header files.)

Windows C implementations tend to be packaged together, with the
package incorporating a compiler, runtime library, headers, etc.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#172640

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-21 14:47 -0700
Message-ID<87msykgjaa.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#172590
bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> The C compilers I've used most often are complete, self-contained
> solutions. Mine doesn't even have or use a linker.
[...]

Really?  How does that work?

For example, this source file compiles without error:
```
extern void no_such_function(void);

int main(void) {
    no_such_function();
}
```
but if I try to generate an executable from it I get an error from the
linker.  If you try to generate an executable using your compiler, what
reports the error?  Or is it not reported until you try to run the
program?

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#172642

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-08-21 23:20 +0100
Message-ID<uc0nvh$22t1l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#172640
On 21/08/2023 22:47, Keith Thompson wrote:
> bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> writes:
> [...]
>> The C compilers I've used most often are complete, self-contained
>> solutions. Mine doesn't even have or use a linker.
> [...]
> 
> Really?  How does that work?
> 
> For example, this source file compiles without error:
> ```
> extern void no_such_function(void);
> 
> int main(void) {
>      no_such_function();
> }
> ```
> but if I try to generate an executable from it I get an error from the
> linker.  If you try to generate an executable using your compiler, what
> reports the error?  Or is it not reported until you try to run the
> program?
> 

It doesn't have a conventional linker that works with OBJ files.

Because C allows modules to be independently compiled, there needs to be 
a mechanism to compile several such outputs, then combining them into an 
executable.

But instead of .obj files (or .s then .o like gcc uses), it uses only 
.asm files.

There are two types of external symbols that need to resolved:

(1) Symbols exported by one C module of the app and imported by another

(2) Symbols imported from an external library

The assembler I use performs the job of resolving type (1) symbols 
imported from other modules: it reads multiple .asm files and produces 
one .exe file.

Type (2) symbols can only come from DLL shared libraries. They are 
checked off by the part that creates the EXE image, which contains a 
list of DLL dependencies, and the symbols imported from each.

The parts of the assembler responsonsible for (1) and (2) probably 
require 10KB of code. The LD linker is 1500KB, and the LLVM one about 
64000KB.

This assembler forms part of BCC as well as being an independent tool.

Static 'linking' of OBJ files from other compilers is not possible. (Tcc 
might have the same limitation.) I used to be able to do it by getting 
my assembler to generate OBJ format (one file for the whole program), 
and then employing a third party, real linker. That's fallen into disuse.

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#172645

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-21 15:45 -0700
Message-ID<87edjwgglh.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#172642
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 21/08/2023 22:47, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> writes:
>> [...]
>>> The C compilers I've used most often are complete, self-contained
>>> solutions. Mine doesn't even have or use a linker.
>> [...]
>> Really?  How does that work?
[...]
> It doesn't have a conventional linker that works with OBJ files.
[...]
> The assembler I use performs the job of resolving type (1) symbols
> imported from other modules: it reads multiple .asm files and produces 
> one .exe file.
[...]

So the "linker" is incorporated into the assembler.

(This is just an observation.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong
with that approach.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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