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Groups > comp.lang.c > #170696 > unrolled thread

you think rust may outthrone c?

Started byfir <profesor.fir@gmail.com>
First post2023-07-12 07:18 -0700
Last post2023-07-23 03:32 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 968 — 32 participants

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Contents

  you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-12 07:18 -0700
    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 01:37 -0400
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-13 10:16 +0200
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 04:27 -0700
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 05:01 -0700
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.org.invalid> - 2023-07-13 14:10 +0000
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-13 17:51 +0000
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-13 18:56 +0000
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-13 19:39 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-13 20:30 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-13 22:29 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-14 00:19 +0100
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 06:43 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-14 11:47 +0100
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 11:04 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:01 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:21 +0000
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 13:52 +0200
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:08 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:10 +0200
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:32 +0000
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:04 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:02 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:35 +0000
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 14:30 +0200
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-15 16:36 +0000
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 15:49 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 16:02 -0700
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 01:18 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 16:25 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 11:07 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 05:42 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 16:17 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 07:44 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 09:57 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 10:34 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 10:41 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-16 20:55 +0100
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 01:54 +0100
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 02:43 +0100
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 03:16 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 14:54 +0200
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 07:08 -0700
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 16:43 +0200
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 17:19 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-21 00:05 -0700
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 16:52 +0100
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 17:21 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 09:44 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:24 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-17 15:10 +0000
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-17 18:46 +0000
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:27 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-20 20:40 +0200
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-20 19:27 +0000
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-20 22:16 +0200
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 19:17 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 16:15 +0100
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 09:17 -0700
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:41 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 23:02 +0100
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 08:22 +0200
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:01 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:01 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 09:26 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:33 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:35 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:37 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 13:05 +0100
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 17:56 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 09:13 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:18 +0100
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 01:24 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:06 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 23:11 +0100
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:30 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 00:07 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 01:28 +0100
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 02:20 +0100
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-18 02:12 +0000
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 03:25 +0100
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 09:55 +0200
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:29 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 02:29 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 09:16 +0200
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 12:38 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 14:24 +0200
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 14:12 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 16:33 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 16:37 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 16:55 +0000
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 19:44 +0100
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:06 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-07-18 12:16 +0000
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 14:09 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 16:36 +0200
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 17:59 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 09:45 +0200
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 03:31 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 06:01 +0000
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 01:19 -0700
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 03:02 -0700
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 04:30 -0700
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 15:28 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:12 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:23 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:44 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 15:37 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 23:01 +0000
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 16:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:41 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 00:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 16:58 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 17:30 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 17:50 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 22:46 -0700
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 09:57 +0200
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:24 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 13:33 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 02:01 +0100
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 18:28 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 11:21 +0100
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 03:44 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 12:17 +0100
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 15:05 +0200
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 14:42 +0100
                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 16:22 +0200
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 16:40 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 18:56 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 20:26 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 21:06 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 18:34 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-22 20:09 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 14:34 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 23:03 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 15:30 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 21:49 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 11:41 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 04:15 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 15:51 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 19:05 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 00:22 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:38 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 01:15 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-23 13:45 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 15:06 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 17:54 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 17:56 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 11:03 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 20:15 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 20:18 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 09:50 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-24 10:58 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 06:02 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-24 14:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-24 18:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-05 10:22 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 18:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 18:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 20:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-06 01:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-14 04:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 18:22 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-25 19:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 21:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 00:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 03:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 16:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 00:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 21:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 20:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 21:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 02:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 02:42 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 17:36 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 05:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 20:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 03:34 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-12 10:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 16:37 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-15 13:05 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-15 14:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-25 20:08 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:19 +0200
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 14:52 +0200
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 16:14 +0100
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:52 -0700
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 18:29 +0200
                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-22 21:56 +0100
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:11 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-23 00:45 +0100
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 17:24 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 17:28 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-23 16:45 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 10:04 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 07:43 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-23 22:10 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 14:51 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 23:12 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:19 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:25 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-24 17:22 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 09:52 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 02:52 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 17:37 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-24 16:19 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:34 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 02:42 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-25 10:36 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 16:41 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-25 16:22 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-25 17:40 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 02:40 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:30 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 06:41 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 01:06 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 01:55 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 18:03 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 03:17 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 11:50 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 02:50 +0000
                                                                                                            Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 16:43 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 19:15 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-25 18:43 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 15:03 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 04:10 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 21:51 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 22:07 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 21:55 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 22:26 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 17:26 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 01:38 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-13 14:53 +0300
                                                                                                                    Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 13:07 +0100
                                                                                                                    What's wrong?  The phrasing, that's what! (Was: Overflow and undefined behaviour) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-13 13:16 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-13 16:25 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-14 12:10 +0300
                                                                                                                        Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-14 04:33 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-14 14:56 +0300
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-25 17:34 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-25 20:55 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-28 02:46 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 15:53 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-24 22:33 -0700
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-24 09:45 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 14:29 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 07:03 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 07:41 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 16:01 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 19:13 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 18:41 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 22:07 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 13:34 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 05:15 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 15:14 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 06:31 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 16:17 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 07:53 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 20:45 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-04 00:21 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 18:29 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:35 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-05 06:09 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 14:30 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 16:48 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 17:18 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 09:45 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 19:18 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 18:10 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 15:00 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 15:41 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 16:16 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-01 17:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 18:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-01 18:26 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 19:18 +0200
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 17:41 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 21:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 03:41 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 12:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 05:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-02 17:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 09:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 23:48 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 15:25 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 11:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 02:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 17:12 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 08:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 18:04 +0200
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 09:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-05 13:39 +0200
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 05:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 17:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 16:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:46 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 10:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 17:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 10:41 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 18:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 00:26 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 20:23 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 13:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 05:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:00 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 05:35 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 05:48 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 14:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:06 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 13:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2023-08-09 14:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 15:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 07:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 08:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 15:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 16:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 17:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 21:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:16 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 09:18 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 00:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:24 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 14:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 17:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 17:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:35 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-15 17:51 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 16:01 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-15 23:11 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 23:40 +0200
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 17:58 +0200
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-02 19:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 22:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 02:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 02:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 15:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 17:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 18:56 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-05 23:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 00:21 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 00:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 11:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 17:06 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 17:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 14:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 23:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:19 -0700
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 23:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 17:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 01:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 18:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 07:41 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 04:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 14:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 16:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 08:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 17:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 09:43 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 00:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-10 15:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:26 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 16:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-08-10 16:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 11:13 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:26 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 11:30 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 17:39 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 18:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 21:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 23:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:21 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 04:13 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:22 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 09:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 18:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 21:58 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 05:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 13:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 08:55 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 18:23 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 15:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 18:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 00:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 06:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 15:56 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 08:35 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 02:44 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-09 05:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 16:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-08-07 13:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 10:24 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 14:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 17:59 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 11:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:34 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 14:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 23:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 22:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 00:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 23:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 04:07 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 14:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 17:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 18:39 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-03 02:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 20:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 23:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 15:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 07:44 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 07:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 17:14 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-04 13:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 15:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 17:05 -0400
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 22:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 17:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 21:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 00:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 00:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 01:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 02:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 11:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-06 16:50 +0200
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 18:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 00:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 22:44 -0400
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 10:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 07:53 -0400
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 11:53 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-06 16:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-04 19:50 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 02:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 14:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 17:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 07:56 -0400
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 13:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 14:12 +0200
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 16:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 16:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 17:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 14:16 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 05:45 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 22:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 22:19 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:07 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 05:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:17 +0200
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 22:27 +0200
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 18:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 16:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 00:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 18:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 19:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:57 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:32 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 03:59 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:17 +0200
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 18:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 19:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 13:11 +0200
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 04:22 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 14:45 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 06:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 15:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 08:36 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 02:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 15:49 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 21:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 09:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 16:27 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:42 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:38 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 10:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 17:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 10:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 03:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 19:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 11:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:29 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-08-09 11:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 13:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 15:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 15:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 16:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 18:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-12 10:36 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 02:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 08:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 07:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 07:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 08:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:10 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 00:18 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:08 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-13 03:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 06:16 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 15:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-13 03:38 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-12 12:12 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 09:30 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 18:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 20:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 20:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 04:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-14 15:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 16:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:19 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 15:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-11 08:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 11:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 10:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 13:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 13:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-11 07:33 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 15:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 16:45 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 10:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 20:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 22:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 22:59 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 23:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-12 00:26 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 21:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 13:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 14:55 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 21:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 22:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:32 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-12 12:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 15:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 15:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 17:26 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 16:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:35 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 19:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 09:34 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:37 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 16:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:25 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 16:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-08-11 10:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-08-09 15:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-10 09:38 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 10:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 15:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-10 00:15 +0200
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 00:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 17:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 00:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 00:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 17:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 00:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 02:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 02:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 22:42 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 19:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 03:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 15:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 16:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 10:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-08-10 17:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 10:27 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 17:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 14:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 14:56 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 23:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:38 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 18:43 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 01:30 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 17:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:03 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 16:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:37 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 09:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 18:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 23:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 01:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 05:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 06:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 13:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 19:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 08:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 11:14 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 17:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 09:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 17:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:45 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 13:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 06:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 15:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 10:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 07:36 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 16:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 01:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 09:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 18:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 21:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 20:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 10:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 18:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 23:14 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 00:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 23:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 17:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 02:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 19:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:03 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 13:13 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-28 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-28 19:21 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-29 21:15 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:45 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 00:05 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-29 11:19 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-29 13:47 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-29 15:10 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-29 16:00 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-29 15:30 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:22 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:49 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-27 14:07 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 16:03 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 19:43 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 18:37 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 22:16 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 21:53 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 23:28 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-02 01:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 11:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 18:23 +0200
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 19:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 11:28 +0200
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 18:12 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 14:45 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 15:02 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 17:08 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:38 -0700
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:29 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 09:46 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:29 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 21:04 +0200
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 14:38 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 07:00 -0700
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:31 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 14:54 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:55 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 03:07 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 12:07 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 15:15 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:08 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 17:30 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 19:22 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:28 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 16:27 +0200
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 20:39 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:21 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:42 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 23:31 +0000
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:53 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 01:46 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 09:51 +0000
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 03:36 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-20 12:13 +0100
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:06 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:28 +0200
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-20 16:44 +0000
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-21 01:22 -0400
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:03 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:37 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-20 02:08 +0100
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:07 +0200
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 02:49 +0100
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:17 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 16:30 +0100
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:54 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:56 -0700
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 17:22 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 21:01 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 20:46 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:47 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 21:49 +0100
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:42 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "minf...@arcor.de" <minforth@arcor.de> - 2023-07-20 05:39 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 14:55 +0200
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-20 15:03 +0100
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 18:22 +0200
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 15:54 -0700
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:18 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:04 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:20 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-20 20:51 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:38 +0200
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:03 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:24 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 13:03 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 16:17 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-21 14:35 +0000
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-18 14:34 +0000
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 08:04 -0700
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 21:27 -0700
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:10 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 16:43 +0200
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 14:59 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 17:44 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-18 00:14 +0000
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 10:13 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:10 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:13 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:16 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:29 -0700
                    Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? (Was: you think rust may outthrone c?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 11:24 +0000
                      Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 11:30 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 05:20 -0700
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:29 +0000
                            Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 05:46 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:01 +0000
                                Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:07 -0700
                                  Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:26 +0000
                                    Why not? (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 13:32 +0000
                                      Re: Why not? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:43 +0000
                                        Re: Why not? (killfiles) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 14:10 +0000
                                          Re: Why not? (killfiles) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 14:28 +0000
                                            Re: Why not? (killfiles) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 18:46 +0000
                                    Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:52 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 02:21 -0700
                            Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-14 09:14 -0400
                              Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 13:29 +0000
                                Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-14 07:26 -0700
                                  Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 14:39 +0000
                                    Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:30 +0200
                                      Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:53 +0000
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:30 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:30 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 12:29 +0000
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:46 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:46 +0000
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:49 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-14 20:52 +0800
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:16 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:34 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 16:20 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 19:11 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 17:26 +0000
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> - 2023-07-15 04:42 -0700
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 12:29 +0000
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 18:40 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 19:05 -0700
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:25 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:30 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 15:48 -0700
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:56 +0000
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 14:41 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 12:55 +0000
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 18:46 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 17:28 +0000
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 20:20 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 18:42 +0000
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 06:46 -0700
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-15 14:12 +0800
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 01:05 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 18:54 -0700
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 08:59 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-17 02:26 -0400
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:43 +0000
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:58 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 09:32 +0200
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 07:58 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 12:56 +0200
                  OT Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-14 10:20 +0200
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-14 20:48 +0800
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-07-17 18:33 +0300
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 20:47 +0100
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 21:14 +0100
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 21:47 +0100
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 18:26 +0200
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 17:00 +0000
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 20:03 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 20:28 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:06 +0200
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 11:42 -0700
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 19:18 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 12:20 -0700
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 20:26 +0000
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 01:06 -0700
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 06:37 -0400
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:07 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 09:17 -0700
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 11:06 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 19:16 -0400
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 11:07 +0200
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 08:49 -0400
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 16:25 +0200
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 19:48 +0200
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:06 -0400
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 09:32 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 06:06 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 06:13 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:57 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:10 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:29 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:33 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:35 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 01:30 -0400
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 15:00 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 14:53 +0100
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:22 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:32 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:42 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:01 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 17:45 +0200
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:22 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 19:00 +0200
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 19:06 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 19:34 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:15 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:20 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:25 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:33 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:23 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:28 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 16:48 +0100
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:24 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 19:02 +0100
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 20:06 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:07 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:29 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 00:52 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 02:03 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 02:18 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 13:44 +0200
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 13:43 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:03 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:07 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:14 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:54 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:31 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:42 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:16 +0200
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 06:39 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:49 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 14:56 +0100
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 16:11 +0200
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-23 14:34 +0000
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 18:43 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:19 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:34 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:48 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:58 -0700
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:00 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:01 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:09 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:59 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:02 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:07 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:18 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:42 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:51 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:26 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:42 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 09:20 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:27 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:06 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:30 +0200
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 00:58 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 01:06 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:16 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 06:40 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:49 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:57 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 09:01 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:30 +0200
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:32 -0700

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#171512

FromKaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Date2023-08-01 18:26 +0000
Message-ID<20230801104525.199@kylheku.com>
In reply to#171507
On 2023-08-01, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 01/08/2023 18:04, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> > On 2023-08-01, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> All this is beating about the bush. Either gcc is a program intended to 
> be used directly from a command line or it's not.

Mostly, it isn't.

> You shouldn't need DIY workarounds just to get it to do its basic job, 

"make prog" isn't a DIY workaround; it's an IEEE standard workaround.

> or use alternates like make which have their own problems.

"make" and "cc" are part of the same standard environment.

Unix has had make since the 1970's and used it for most of the C
compiling.

It's part and parcel of one system.

> I mean, why doesn't gcc just implement your 'gcc -o $1 $1.c' suggestion?

Someone in this thread remarked how even Clang and Zig cc have to
imitate the behavior in order to drop in.  So that's the reason gcc
cannot just implement the suggestion.

Just like clang has to be a drop-in for gcc, new gcc has to be a drop-in
for old gcc.

If the gcc command changed the default name `a.out` to something else,
it would break all build systems which happen to rely on that behavior.

In the first place, gcc itself took on that convention in order to be a
drop-in for Unix cc.

Stallman wasn't crazy about Unix! He really wanted a Lisp machine. But
Unix was the proprietary software that people were using, that had
to be replaced with free software, in his view, and replacing requires
playing the compatibility game. So, for instance, Bash had all the dumb
whitespace and escaping issues as the Bourne shell.

GNU went with shit-for-shit compatibility with Unix; but at least they
tried to make the tools internally more robust to bad inputs, and
extended them with useful features.

So, there is no way something like "gcc foo.c" producing ./foo could be
merged. A remote possibility would be that gcc can be installed under an
alias like gccp (gcc, make program). Where if gcc sees that it is
invoked under that name, it auto-configures the -o option. gccp would
likely be rejected as something that can just be a shell script wrapper
that you can develop as a separate project.

GCC is FOSS, so you can contribute that, if it bothers you.

However, it's a difficult project to get into.

I developed a useful (IMHO) extension to GCC's preprocessor in April
2022 and posted that to the GCC mailing list.  My patch included
documentation and test cases; all the homework was done.  I never
received a reply. I pinged several times in the ensuing months, then
gave up on it.

If you disagree with the design of the gcc command line, a productive
way to do something about it would be to develop a wrapper, say
one called "wcc". If enough users share your views, they will widely
install wcc, and people will start building their stuff through it.
It could just be a single file shell script.

"wcc" could examine its own name and look for the real compiler
accordingly, so that if it were installed as "wcc-arm-gnu-linux",
it will massage the arguments and hand them off to "gcc-arm-gnu-linux".

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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#171506

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-01 19:18 +0200
Message-ID<uabeq1$3nigh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#171497
On 01/08/2023 16:41, Bart wrote:
> 
> On 01/08/2023 14:00, David Brown wrote:
>  > On 27/07/2023 18:18, Bart wrote:
>  >> It either won't work, or will result in programs that are not as
>  >> efficient as expected, because that tightly crafted struct now takes
>  >> up 16 bytes rather than 8 (and on Win64 is passed by reference rather
>  >> than by value):
> 
>  > Efficiency (or lack thereof) is not an issue.  I would expect that
>  > changing to 64-bit int will make some code more efficient (on 64-bit
>  > platforms), and some code less efficient.  Whether it works or not is
>  > the crucial issue.
>  >
>  > (I still would like to hear examples of reasonably likely situations
>  > where changing "int" to 64-bit would stop code from working correctly.
> 
> OK, let's try it. I took one of my generated C files which had these two 
> typedefs at the start:
> 
>      typedef int                i32;
>      typedef unsigned int       u32;
> 
> I changed them to:
> 
>      typedef long long          i32;
>      typedef unsigned long long u32;
> 
> Then I recompiled the 40Kloc file (it was an interpreter) and tried to 
> run a script; it crashed. I can't say I was surprised: there are plenty 
> of unions where the relations between the elements have to be exact.
> 

So we have an example of one single program that has trouble when the 
size-specific 32-bit type is changed to 64 bits.  No one doubted that 
some programs would have trouble.  And I think people using a type named 
"i32" would do so with a much stronger assumption about the type's size 
than when using "int".

I am still waiting for a justification that /half/ the C programs in 
existence would have trouble when /int/ is changed to 64 bits (no one 
suggests changing int32_t).  And I am still waiting for examples of what 
you think (or know) is likely to go wrong.

> (At first I though it had worked, but I'd forgotten gcc's moronic habit 
> of naming output files as a.exe, so I was running prog.exe instead, an 
> existing working version.)
> 

If only the tool came with instructions, you might have had a way to 
learn after only a decade or so of use.

> 
>  >> The main Win64 ABI reference doesn't assign type names to the
>  >> 1-2-4-8-byte sizes that are passed in GP registers, but where it does,
>  >> then C's 'int' is a minor part of it:
>  >>
>  >> 
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/build/x64-software-conventions?view=msvc-170 
> 
>  >
>  > That says that C "int" is 32-bit for the Win64 ABI.   (Calling
>  > conventions are only part of an ABI.)
> 
> It also says that a 32-bit type is called "long" and "INT32" as well as 
> "int".
> 

It says that C "long" and C "int" are both 32 bits - it does not say 
they are the same type in C (they are not - even if the sizes are the same).

> I doubt that purpose of this chart is to define what "int" is in C, but 
> what is clear is that it expects it to be 32 bits. It doesn't say what 
> version of C it has in mind. It also doesn't mention `long long` for 64 
> bits, nor any of the `stdint.h` types.
> 

MS has always been famously poor at this kind of thing, and their ABI is 
the least well defined of any platform I have seen.

>  >
>  > Other languages start from scratch, and pick names they like based on
>  > the style of the language.
> 
> And they like i32 etc. They DON'T like int32_t otherwise they'd all be 
> using them! 

As I said - languages use a style that suits the language.  "int32_t" 
might seem very out of place in Zig, just as "int32" might seem 
inconsistent with many of the other types in C.  And if you look at 
other languages, you will see type names such as "Int64.int", 
"INTEGER_64", "BINARY-DOUBLE SIGNED", "range -2**31 .. 2**31 - 1", 
"BigInt", all according to what suits the language.

> C users have to like it or lump it; they are not allowed to 
> use typedefs.

Of course they are /allowed/ to use typedefs.  But silly little "typedef 
int32_t int32;" typedefs are not recommended by any serious programmer 
without a good reason (such as compatibility with existing code).

> 
>  > The use of a "_t" suffix for types has been traditional in C and *nix
>  > long before C99.  It seems an obvious and consistent choice to make when
>  > the types were standardised in C99.
> Obviously not in the Linux kernel.

The Linux kernel is written in C - it does not define the language.

>  > Other languages don't have the same history, and use type names that
>  > match the style of those languages - sometimes longer, sometimes
>  > shorter, sometimes imported (as in C), sometimes built-in, sometimes
>  > with particular capitalisation, sometimes with implicit fixed sizes,
>  > sometimes explicit sizes, sometimes sizes that vary with the platform or
>  > target.
>  >
>  > You seem to have this belief that /only/ C uses the style "int32_t", and
>  > every other language uses "int32" or "i32".  That's just nonsense.
> 
> I gave a list of about 10 different languages that use variations of 
> `int32`, `i32`, `int` (when it is a fixed 32-bit type), but none that 
> have anything like that funny _t suffix, and I think none where those 
> types are unknown to the language unless you specifically import some 
> module.

Stop cherry picking.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages_(basic_instructions)#Integers>

Lots of languages require a module import, or equivalent, to access 
size-specific types.  This applies especially to higher level languages 
that don't have much use for such types.

> 
> So which languages other than C and C++ use `int32_t`?
> 

The ones I know of are related to C (such as Objective C).

The _t suffix in C is primarily historical.  I don't think it would be 
likely to be useful in newer languages, without the history of C. 
Different languages have different styles for this kind of thing.

I am not (and never have) argued that "int32_t" and similar is superior 
to "int32".  But it is definitely superior (IMHO) to minimalist names 
like "i32".  I am merely arguing that it is not worse - it really is not 
the kind of horror story you seem to imagine, and there is no evidence 
to suggest that there exists any kind of widespread dislike for the 
name, either amongst C programmers or other programmers.  (There is 
plenty of dislike for the implementation-dependent nature of the 
standard integer types in C, though often when people insist they want 
fixed size types, they don't actually need them.)


> What would you think of C allowing people to write `char_t` and `int_t` 
> as well as `char` and `int`, just for consistency; do you think that 
> suffix brings anything to the table?
> 
> And if not, what does in bring in the case of `int32_t`? It's evident 
> the `_t` only existes to avoid clashing with existing uses of `int32` (I 
> guess there was no problem with existing uses of `int32_t`!)
> 

That is not "evident" at all.  The names are only available if 
<stdint.h> is included, and therefore clashes with existing names is not 
an issue.  Indeed, the C99 rationale describes that the names were 
picked to match existing usage.


> 
> 
>  > Equally, you seem to believe that C99 picked this style of naming to be
>  > awkward, or to annoy people who don't type well, or just to annoy you
>  > personally.
> 
> Not me personally. It just seems a thing with C that, terrified of 
> making new keywords that look good and are easy to type but that might 
> clash with user identifiers, they introduce capitalisation, leading and 
> embedded underscores, and weird suffixes to make a new keyword so ugly 
> that nobody would have chosen it!
> 

Other people view this as a professional decision to maintain 
compatibility and minimise the risk of conflicts between existing code 
bases and newer tools.  Thus almost all keywords added to C have the 
style _Keyword - precisely because words of this style were reserved for 
this purpose and should not be found as user identifiers.

Note that the <stdint.h> types are /not/ keywords, and that clearly 
newer C keywords and identifiers cannot be as "ugly" as you claim 
because they /were/ chosen.

>  >  You also think nobody (except a few people in comp.lang.c)
>  > likes them, or even uses them.  The reality, is, of course, that it was
>  > a considered decision based on a balance of many factors, and C
>  > programmers the world over are entirely happy with them.
> 
> Did they have a choice?

Yes.

> 
>  >> As I said, you will not be convinced, or will say it's a one-off. (Why
>  >> won't you be convinced? Is it that inconceivable that someone might
>  >> prefer a snappier, possibly more euphonious set of types for their
>  >> coding?)
>  >>
>  >
>  > I'd find your arguments a lot more convincing if you made an attempt to
>  > answer the question, or give justification for your opinions.  We all
>  > know of a number of good reasons why size-specific typenames other than
>  > those in <stdint.h> are sometimes used in C programming.
> 
> I can't win because for every example I can find, you will bring up the 
> possibility that it might be linked to the availability of stdint.h or 
> to make it independent of stdint.h.
> 

You could "win" by trying to answer the question - or at least, by 
trying to understand it.

> What would an example look like that would satisfy you that someone is 
> creating a snappier typedef alias for purely aesthetic, ergonomic or 
> other reasons than the ones you listed? How can you tell from the bare 
> typedef what the reason is?
> 

You are the one that has claimed people (other than you) find the 
<stdint.h> names so ugly and long-winded that they use typedefs to avoid 
them.  All I want is for some justification or evidence to support such 
a claim.  Use of names such as "int32" or "i32" for other reasons (such 
as pre-C99 historical reasons) is not relevant.

Alternatively, simply accept that while it may be the case that some 
people find "int32_t" ugly, pretty much no one is particularly bothered, 
and programmers don't go out of their way to avoid the type name in 
their C coding when they want a size-specific type.


> 
>  >  I listed the
>  > main ones (as far as I see them).  You have made claims that people use
>  > different typenames (in C programming) because the <stdint.h> names are
>  > ugly or long-winded.  I have asked you to back up those claims.
> 
> They ARE long-winded, although not as much as 'unsigned long long int`, 
> and they ARE ugly.
> 
> I doubt that my views are that unique. For example:
> 
> "A lot of good programmers do that and the reason given is that types in 
> stdint.h have ugly long names like uint32_t. "_t" thing rubs a lot of 
> people the wrong way so I am not surprised they change it to something 
> more pleasant. I like using uint64, int32 etc. but the convention where 
> it's u64, i32, f32, f64 is something I would get behind."
> 
> (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13061837, last comment)
> 

Finally!  A link that shows you are not unique in the world!

> Note they talk about a 'convention', and 'a lot of good programmers do 
> that'.
> 

"They", in this context, being "some guy on the internet", with all the 
authority that implies.

But again, the top post is pointing out that defining your own 
fixed-size types is unnecessary when <stdint.h> exists.


I think you will see a lot more support in saying "unsigned long long 
int" is long-winded (I'd use uint64_t instead) than claiming "uint64_t" 
is so much "uglier" than "uint64" that people use typedefs specifically 
to avoid it.

You'll also see a lot of support for macros like PRI32i being ugly, but 
that is more an issue with printf-style formatting.  (C23, you'll be 
pleased to hear, lets you use "%w32i" and "%w64u" for formatting int32_t 
and uint64_t values.)

>  >> BTW 1% is also the UK's contribution to global warming, where it is
>  >> considered a big deal.
>  >>
>  >
>  > So now you are comparing using "u64" to saving the planet.
> 
> Actually I've just measured it: using the uint64_t instead of u64 etc 
> made the output 6.5% bigger.
> 

You are right up there with Flash Gordon, saviour of the universe!

> 
>  >> In my generated code, casts involving these types are used VERY
>  >> extensively. For example, every `0` constant is written as `(i64)0`.
> 
>  > First off, that is usually a silly idea.
> 
> Integer constants in the source language are 64 bits and need to be so 
> in the C. So, how would /you/ do it? Remember that 0L and 0LL (and 0UL 
> and 0ULL) do not have precisely defined widths on their types.
> 

Why do you think you need a precisely defined width here?

> And in what way would that be superior to just using a cast?
> 
> 
> 

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#171508

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2023-08-01 17:41 +0000
Message-ID<ftbyM.419745$GMN3.375538@fx16.iad>
In reply to#171506
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>On 01/08/2023 16:41, Bart wrote:
>> 
>> On 01/08/2023 14:00, David Brown wrote:
>>  > On 27/07/2023 18:18, Bart wrote:
>>  >> It either won't work, or will result in programs that are not as
>>  >> efficient as expected, because that tightly crafted struct now takes
>>  >> up 16 bytes rather than 8 (and on Win64 is passed by reference rather
>>  >> than by value):
>> 
>>  > Efficiency (or lack thereof) is not an issue.  I would expect that
>>  > changing to 64-bit int will make some code more efficient (on 64-bit
>>  > platforms), and some code less efficient.  Whether it works or not is
>>  > the crucial issue.
>>  >
>>  > (I still would like to hear examples of reasonably likely situations
>>  > where changing "int" to 64-bit would stop code from working correctly.
>> 
>> OK, let's try it. I took one of my generated C files which had these two 
>> typedefs at the start:
>> 
>>      typedef int                i32;
>>      typedef unsigned int       u32;
>> 
>> I changed them to:
>> 
>>      typedef long long          i32;
>>      typedef unsigned long long u32;
>> 
>> Then I recompiled the 40Kloc file (it was an interpreter) and tried to 
>> run a script; it crashed. I can't say I was surprised: there are plenty 
>> of unions where the relations between the elements have to be exact.
>> 
>
>So we have an example of one single program that has trouble when the 
>size-specific 32-bit type is changed to 64 bits.

Moreover it was using type-punning, where all bets are off anyway.

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#171514

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-08-01 21:01 +0100
Message-ID<uabobj$3oias$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#171506
On 01/08/2023 18:18, David Brown wrote:
 > On 01/08/2023 16:41, Bart wrote:
 > If only the tool came with instructions, you might have had a way to
 > learn after only a decade or so of use.

I don't use gcc that often. Most command line tools have sensible UIs, 
I'd forgotten that gcc was so dumb.

Let's face it, if gcc had not had that quirk, would there have been a 
million programmers clamouring for its introduction? I don't think so!

While do people feel the need to defend every stupid feature? Just admit 
it was a bad idea which is still being perpetuated decades later.

 > Stop cherry picking.
 >
 > 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages_(basic_instructions)#Integers>

That chart confirms what I said. It's only C, C++ and OK, Objective C 
that use that form.

 From the chart, C#, Java, Rust, Go, D, Swift, even F#, Scala and Raku, 
use simple forms with single, tidy keywords and fixed sizes.

The chart leaves out Zig, Julia and Odin which I think were part of my 
list.

That leaves some ancient languages like COBOL to support your claim.

My remarks were to do with languages that supported fixed-width integer 
types, which are expected to be lower-level. I wouldn't have put COBOL 
in that group ...


 > Lots of languages require a module import, or equivalent, to access
 > size-specific types.  This applies especially to higher level languages
 > that don't have much use for such types.

... or ones like Haskell. (I don't know which ones need the fundamental 
types to be specifically requested, but I guess you do.)


 > I am not (and never have) argued that "int32_t" and similar is superior
 > to "int32".  But it is definitely superior (IMHO) to minimalist names
 > like "i32".

I do something which may be controversial: I allow both 'int32' and 
'i32'! That allows for differing styles and preferences. It also makes 
porting fragments of code either way a little easier.

Before you say that you shouldn't allow too much freedom, remember that 
C allows 'int', 'signed int', 'int signed', 'signed', 'int32_t', and, 
sometimes, 'long' (and 'signed long', 'long signed') for the same 
machine type.

(It's a good thing we're not enumerating the variations of 'uint64_t'!)

 > I am merely arguing that it is not worse - it really is not
 > the kind of horror story you seem to imagine, and there is no evidence
 > to suggest that there exists any kind of widespread dislike for the
 > name, either amongst C programmers or other programmers.

That most languages have made tidier, snappier choices says quite a lot.

 > That is not "evident" at all.  The names are only available if
 > <stdint.h> is included, and therefore clashes with existing names is not
 > an issue.  Indeed, the C99 rationale describes that the names were
 > picked to match existing usage.

So, why did existing usage employ that '_t'?


 > You could "win" by trying to answer the question - or at least, by
 > trying to understand it.

Nobody can win because this is a matter of opinion. However, I don't 
believe I know your actual opinion, as you seem happy to go along with 
whatever ungainly syntax that C has decreed, and will defend that 
against my view.

No number of contemporary languages that have made more pleasing choices 
will convince you. In fact you have to dredge up examples from ancient 
history to show that sometimes other languages have terrible syntax too!

 > You are the one that has claimed people (other than you) find the
 > <stdint.h> names so ugly and long-winded that they use typedefs to avoid
 > them.  All I want is for some justification or evidence to support such
 > a claim.

In what form?

   Use of names such as "int32" or "i32" for other reasons (such
 > as pre-C99 historical reasons) is not relevant.
 >
 > Alternatively, simply accept that while it may be the case that some
 > people find "int32_t" ugly, pretty much no one is particularly bothered,

Most people are happy to go along with `int32_t` like you are. Many 
might have been happier with `int32` or `i32`. Some will go so far as to 
define their own set of more pleasing and ergonomic types, and if they 
know what's good for them, will keep that quiet.

A smaller number may be more vocal about it.

The tiny number who go on to create new languages will show how much 
they love the C99 types by instead choosing something better!

 > "They", in this context, being "some guy on the internet", with all the
 > authority that implies.

The link I wanted was from Reddit proposing that everyone should get 
behind using 'i8-i64' typedefs in C, but I couldn't locate it. I 
remember it had quite a few upvotes.

 > You'll also see a lot of support for macros like PRI32i being ugly, but
 > that is more an issue with printf-style formatting.  (C23, you'll be
 > pleased to hear, lets you use "%w32i" and "%w64u" for formatting int32_t
 > and uint64_t values.)

Nice. In my everyday language since 1981, I've had to use nothing at 
all; the compiler already knows the the type of the expression it's 
printing! I know, it's magic.

And in my C compiler since 2017, I can use "%?" format for any numeric type.

 >> Actually I've just measured it: using the uint64_t instead of u64 etc
 >> made the output 6.5% bigger.
 >>
 >
 > You are right up there with Flash Gordon, saviour of the universe!

So, how big a percentage will make you take notice? This 6% reduction is 
a no-brainer which can be achieved with no effort.

But sure, your attitude is typical. Take potential enhancements of 1 or 
2% in a hundred different places, it all adds up. But each one on its 
own seems pointless.

 >>  >> extensively. For example, every `0` constant is written as `(i64)0`.
 >>
 >>  > First off, that is usually a silly idea.
 >>
 >> Integer constants in the source language are 64 bits and need to be so
 >> in the C. So, how would /you/ do it? Remember that 0L and 0LL (and 0UL
 >> and 0ULL) do not have precisely defined widths on their types.
 >>
 >
 > Why do you think you need a precisely defined width here?

Because 1234 in the generated C is a 32-bit int type, but it represents 
a 64-bit int type in the original source. It's unwise to leave it as the 
wrong type.

In most cases it won't make a difference, as it will be coerced to the 
right type thanks to neighbouring values, or as required for a function 
call. Most expressions such as 1 << 33 will be reduced before they get 
transpiled, but not all, so in those cases, 32-bit overflow can occur.

And suppose the generated C code looks like this first line:

     printf("%lld\n", -335);
     printf("%lld\n", (long long int)-335);

That first line outputs the wrong value. The second with the cast gets 
it right.


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#171522

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-02 03:41 -0700
Message-ID<d124c512-5586-444e-9252-72e601502eaen@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#171514
On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 at 21:02:11 UTC+1, Bart wrote:
> 
> Before you say that you shouldn't allow too much freedom, remember that 
> C allows 'int', 'signed int', 'int signed', 'signed', 'int32_t', and, 
> sometimes, 'long' (and 'signed long', 'long signed') for the same 
> machine type. 
> 
Yes. Fundamentally we have simple reality. 8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit or 64 bit
integers, signed or unsigned. But C has made a vastly complicated
pig's ear of it. You can add "size_t" to list of types which are often 32 bit.
Then there's exotica such as int_fast32 _t. Which is often what you really
want, but you seldom see it in real code.

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#171523

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2023-08-02 12:09 +0100
Message-ID<uaddgc$1lf7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#171522
On 02/08/2023 11:41, Malcolm McLean wrote:
 > On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 at 21:02:11 UTC+1, Bart wrote:
 >>
 >> Before you say that you shouldn't allow too much freedom, remember that
 >> C allows 'int', 'signed int', 'int signed', 'signed', 'int32_t', and,
 >> sometimes, 'long' (and 'signed long', 'long signed') for the same
 >> machine type.
 >>
 > Yes. Fundamentally we have simple reality. 8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit or 
64 bit
 > integers, signed or unsigned. But C has made a vastly complicated
 > pig's ear of it. You can add "size_t" to list of types which are 
often 32 bit.
 > Then there's exotica such as int_fast32 _t. Which is often what you 
really
 > want, but you seldom see it in real code.

Every time I try to even count the possibilities, I get a different 
result. My latest attempt gives 35 C types for those 8 machine types:

   11 classic C types
   8 u/intN_t
   8 u/intfastN_t     (I don't know exactly where N goes; I don't care!)
   8 u/intleastN_t

The 11 is due to the superfluous 'long' which has the same size as 
either `int' or 'long long', and the third variety of 'char'.

Here, as far as I know, all 35 are technically distinct, incompatible 
types, except that in reality, 'int32_t' may be defined on top of 'int', 
for example. This comes up if you try and use _Generic.

I haven't counted the different combinations of those types which need 
multiple tokens to specify. For example, 'unsigned long long [int]' I 
/think/ can be written in 15 different ways.

Plus I haven't included the plethora of auxiliary types:

    intptr_t
    uintptr_t
    size_t
    ssize_t
    clock_t
    time_t
    offset_t
    ....


I always won't get into the details of how you print any of these myriad 
types, or create a literal (sorry, constant) value suitable to 
initialise any of those.

It's a complete joke. Yet, people here will seriously defend it.

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#171524

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-02 05:01 -0700
Message-ID<d7fcd0d6-c5a5-4229-87d5-98f3129c9572n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#171523
On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 12:09:16 UTC+1, Bart wrote:
> On 02/08/2023 11:41, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> > On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 at 21:02:11 UTC+1, Bart wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Before you say that you shouldn't allow too much freedom, remember that 
> >> C allows 'int', 'signed int', 'int signed', 'signed', 'int32_t', and, 
> >> sometimes, 'long' (and 'signed long', 'long signed') for the same 
> >> machine type. 
> >> 
> > Yes. Fundamentally we have simple reality. 8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit or 
> 64 bit 
> > integers, signed or unsigned. But C has made a vastly complicated 
> > pig's ear of it. You can add "size_t" to list of types which are 
> often 32 bit. 
> > Then there's exotica such as int_fast32 _t. Which is often what you 
> really 
> > want, but you seldom see it in real code.
> Every time I try to even count the possibilities, I get a different 
> result. My latest attempt gives 35 C types for those 8 machine types: 
> 
> 11 classic C types 
> 8 u/intN_t 
> 8 u/intfastN_t (I don't know exactly where N goes; I don't care!) 
> 8 u/intleastN_t 
> 
> The 11 is due to the superfluous 'long' which has the same size as 
> either `int' or 'long long', and the third variety of 'char'. 
> 
> Here, as far as I know, all 35 are technically distinct, incompatible 
> types, except that in reality, 'int32_t' may be defined on top of 'int', 
> for example. This comes up if you try and use _Generic. 
> 
> I haven't counted the different combinations of those types which need 
> multiple tokens to specify. For example, 'unsigned long long [int]' I 
> /think/ can be written in 15 different ways. 
> 
> Plus I haven't included the plethora of auxiliary types: 
> 
> intptr_t 
> uintptr_t 
> size_t 
> ssize_t 
> clock_t 
> time_t 
> offset_t 
> .... 
> 
> 
> I always won't get into the details of how you print any of these myriad 
> types, or create a literal (sorry, constant) value suitable to 
> initialise any of those. 
> 
> It's a complete joke. Yet, people here will seriously defend it.
>
I don't use any of them in the Baby X resource compiler. Audio samples are
saved as "short", UTF-16 values as "unsigned short". If short isn't 16 bits, it
might or might not work, but the chances it will work are good. If I used
int16_t, it would break if short isn't 16 bits. And it would break if stdint.h
isn't available. So that was an easy decision to make.
 

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#171532

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2023-08-02 17:04 +0100
Message-ID<87wmydv39y.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#171524
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 12:09:16 UTC+1, Bart wrote:
>> On 02/08/2023 11:41, Malcolm McLean wrote: 

>> > Then there's exotica such as int_fast32 _t. Which is often what you
>> > really want, but you seldom see it in real code.

> I don't use any of them in the Baby X resource compiler. Audio samples
> are saved as "short", UTF-16 values as "unsigned short". If short
> isn't 16 bits, it might or might not work, but the chances it will
> work are good. If I used int16_t, it would break if short isn't 16
> bits.

int16_t "breaks" if there is no such type, but I think such a type can
exist even if short is not 16 bits.

> And it would break if stdint.h isn't available. So that was an easy
> decision to make.

That rules out the type you probably want -- one of the types you say is
often what is really wanted (int_least16_t).  No wonder they are rarely
seen in "real code" if people won't use them even after nearly a quarter
of a century.  Are you really limiting yourself to writing C90?

-- 
Ben.

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#171533

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-02 09:10 -0700
Message-ID<c707dddd-c94e-47bf-9ae6-a8537d245ac1n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#171532
On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 17:05:14 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.ar...@gmail.com> writes: 
> 
> > On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 12:09:16 UTC+1, Bart wrote: 
> >> On 02/08/2023 11:41, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> 
> >> > Then there's exotica such as int_fast32 _t. Which is often what you 
> >> > really want, but you seldom see it in real code.
> > I don't use any of them in the Baby X resource compiler. Audio samples 
> > are saved as "short", UTF-16 values as "unsigned short". If short 
> > isn't 16 bits, it might or might not work, but the chances it will 
> > work are good. If I used int16_t, it would break if short isn't 16 
> > bits.
> int16_t "breaks" if there is no such type, but I think such a type can 
> exist even if short is not 16 bits.
>
CHAR_BIT would have to be sixteen. 
> > And it would break if stdint.h isn't available. So that was an easy 
> > decision to make.
> That rules out the type you probably want -- one of the types you say is 
> often what is really wanted (int_least16_t). No wonder they are rarely 
> seen in "real code" if people won't use them even after nearly a quarter 
> of a century. Are you really limiting yourself to writing C90? 
> 
It's best to restrict yourself to the conservative subset of C unless there is
really a pressing reason to do otherwise. The Baby X resource compiler 
is designed for use with Baby X, but it might also find a niche in the
toolchains of people writing for small embedded systems. Which
might come with old or restricted C compilers.

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#171554

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-02 23:48 +0200
Message-ID<uaeivj$9urb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#171533
On 02/08/2023 18:10, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 17:05:14 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.ar...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 12:09:16 UTC+1, Bart wrote:
>>>> On 02/08/2023 11:41, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>
>>>>> Then there's exotica such as int_fast32 _t. Which is often what you
>>>>> really want, but you seldom see it in real code.
>>> I don't use any of them in the Baby X resource compiler. Audio samples
>>> are saved as "short", UTF-16 values as "unsigned short". If short
>>> isn't 16 bits, it might or might not work, but the chances it will
>>> work are good. If I used int16_t, it would break if short isn't 16
>>> bits.
>> int16_t "breaks" if there is no such type, but I think such a type can
>> exist even if short is not 16 bits.
>>
> CHAR_BIT would have to be sixteen.

No, compilers can have extended integer types.

>>> And it would break if stdint.h isn't available. So that was an easy
>>> decision to make.
>> That rules out the type you probably want -- one of the types you say is
>> often what is really wanted (int_least16_t). No wonder they are rarely
>> seen in "real code" if people won't use them even after nearly a quarter
>> of a century. Are you really limiting yourself to writing C90?
>>
> It's best to restrict yourself to the conservative subset of C unless there is
> really a pressing reason to do otherwise.

Utter drivel.

It's best to use the C version, and subset thereof, that is suitable for 
writing good, clean code that gives efficient results and is likely to 
work fine for all platforms for which the code is realistically going to 
be of interest.  That pretty much /never/ means C90.  All you do by 
choosing C90 is give worse quality source code, poorer efficiency in the 
generated code, and home-made half-arsed solutions for problems that 
were solved 25 years ago.

> The Baby X resource compiler
> is designed for use with Baby X, but it might also find a niche in the
> toolchains of people writing for small embedded systems. Which
> might come with old or restricted C compilers.
> 

It will /never/ happen.  So don't worry about it.

And if you were /really/ interested in obscure and outdated embedded 
tools (and some of these are still in use), you might have tried to 
learn a little about them - or ask someone who knows.  They'd have 
explained the difference between compilers for code running on the 
target devices, and compilers for code running on host systems.

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#171557

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-02 15:25 -0700
Message-ID<27a833dc-67b7-4195-a3f5-8d8c60ad3d2fn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#171554
On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 22:48:49 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
> On 02/08/2023 18:10, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> > On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 17:05:14 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote: 
> >> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.ar...@gmail.com> writes: 
> >> 
> >>> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 12:09:16 UTC+1, Bart wrote: 
> >>>> On 02/08/2023 11:41, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> >> 
> >>>>> Then there's exotica such as int_fast32 _t. Which is often what you 
> >>>>> really want, but you seldom see it in real code. 
> >>> I don't use any of them in the Baby X resource compiler. Audio samples 
> >>> are saved as "short", UTF-16 values as "unsigned short". If short 
> >>> isn't 16 bits, it might or might not work, but the chances it will 
> >>> work are good. If I used int16_t, it would break if short isn't 16 
> >>> bits. 
> >> int16_t "breaks" if there is no such type, but I think such a type can 
> >> exist even if short is not 16 bits. 
> >> 
> > CHAR_BIT would have to be sixteen.
> No, compilers can have extended integer types.
> >>> And it would break if stdint.h isn't available. So that was an easy 
> >>> decision to make. 
> >> That rules out the type you probably want -- one of the types you say is 
> >> often what is really wanted (int_least16_t). No wonder they are rarely 
> >> seen in "real code" if people won't use them even after nearly a quarter 
> >> of a century. Are you really limiting yourself to writing C90? 
> >> 
> > It's best to restrict yourself to the conservative subset of C unless there is 
> > really a pressing reason to do otherwise.
> Utter drivel. 
> 
> It's best to use the C version, and subset thereof, that is suitable for 
> writing good, clean code that gives efficient results and is likely to 
> work fine for all platforms for which the code is realistically going to 
> be of interest. That pretty much /never/ means C90. All you do by 
> choosing C90 is give worse quality source code, poorer efficiency in the 
> generated code, and home-made half-arsed solutions for problems that 
> were solved 25 years ago.
>
Efficiency in the resource compiler itself hardly matters. I tested the string
tag on a 100,000 word novel, and it came back instantly. The string also
compiled and printed out. Efficiency in the output code matters, but the vast
majority of it is static data. 
> > The Baby X resource compiler 
> > is designed for use with Baby X, but it might also find a niche in the 
> > toolchains of people writing for small embedded systems. Which 
> > might come with old or restricted C compilers. 
> >
> It will /never/ happen. So don't worry about it. 
> 
> And if you were /really/ interested in obscure and outdated embedded 
> tools (and some of these are still in use), you might have tried to 
> learn a little about them - or ask someone who knows. They'd have 
> explained the difference between compilers for code running on the 
> target devices, and compilers for code running on host systems.
>
The Baby X resource compiler, as the name implies, is primarily intended
for use with Baby X. Baby X uses int to represent integral values, 
double to represent real values, unsigned char to represent arbitrary
binary data, and char * to represent strings. There's no advantage in
using other types, except that now I'm adding audio, the PCM data will
be represented by a short.

However I took the decision to separate the resource compiler from Baby X
so it could be used as an independent program by non-Baby X users.
Who those would be I don't know. The big platforms come with monolithic
buold systems which include resource compilers, and for various reasons
it's not easy to avoid the use of the resource compiler. So I'm guessing
small embedded systems. But I can't exactly take a job doing embedded
programming just to get more experience for building the resource
compiler. The output files from the Baby X resource compiler should
compile under pretty much any C compiler out there, however. 

The Baby X resource compiler itself should also compile cleanly and easily
under any hosted system. That's also an important goal.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#171565

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-03 11:42 +0200
Message-ID<uafsqe$mtv7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#171557
On 03/08/2023 00:25, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 22:48:49 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>> On 02/08/2023 18:10, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 17:05:14 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.ar...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 12:09:16 UTC+1, Bart wrote:
>>>>>> On 02/08/2023 11:41, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Then there's exotica such as int_fast32 _t. Which is often what you
>>>>>>> really want, but you seldom see it in real code.
>>>>> I don't use any of them in the Baby X resource compiler. Audio samples
>>>>> are saved as "short", UTF-16 values as "unsigned short". If short
>>>>> isn't 16 bits, it might or might not work, but the chances it will
>>>>> work are good. If I used int16_t, it would break if short isn't 16
>>>>> bits.
>>>> int16_t "breaks" if there is no such type, but I think such a type can
>>>> exist even if short is not 16 bits.
>>>>
>>> CHAR_BIT would have to be sixteen.
>> No, compilers can have extended integer types.
>>>>> And it would break if stdint.h isn't available. So that was an easy
>>>>> decision to make.
>>>> That rules out the type you probably want -- one of the types you say is
>>>> often what is really wanted (int_least16_t). No wonder they are rarely
>>>> seen in "real code" if people won't use them even after nearly a quarter
>>>> of a century. Are you really limiting yourself to writing C90?
>>>>
>>> It's best to restrict yourself to the conservative subset of C unless there is
>>> really a pressing reason to do otherwise.
>> Utter drivel.
>>
>> It's best to use the C version, and subset thereof, that is suitable for
>> writing good, clean code that gives efficient results and is likely to
>> work fine for all platforms for which the code is realistically going to
>> be of interest. That pretty much /never/ means C90. All you do by
>> choosing C90 is give worse quality source code, poorer efficiency in the
>> generated code, and home-made half-arsed solutions for problems that
>> were solved 25 years ago.
>>
> Efficiency in the resource compiler itself hardly matters. I tested the string
> tag on a 100,000 word novel, and it came back instantly. The string also
> compiled and printed out. Efficiency in the output code matters, but the vast
> majority of it is static data.

Quality of source code /always/ matters, unless this is a small 
throw-away program.

>>> The Baby X resource compiler
>>> is designed for use with Baby X, but it might also find a niche in the
>>> toolchains of people writing for small embedded systems. Which
>>> might come with old or restricted C compilers.
>>>
>> It will /never/ happen. So don't worry about it.
>>
>> And if you were /really/ interested in obscure and outdated embedded
>> tools (and some of these are still in use), you might have tried to
>> learn a little about them - or ask someone who knows. They'd have
>> explained the difference between compilers for code running on the
>> target devices, and compilers for code running on host systems.
>>
> The Baby X resource compiler, as the name implies, is primarily intended
> for use with Baby X. Baby X uses int to represent integral values,
> double to represent real values, unsigned char to represent arbitrary
> binary data, and char * to represent strings. There's no advantage in
> using other types, except that now I'm adding audio, the PCM data will
> be represented by a short.
>


None of this will ever be of the slightest use on a platform that does 
not have a good C99 compiler.

> However I took the decision to separate the resource compiler from Baby X
> so it could be used as an independent program by non-Baby X users.
> Who those would be I don't know. The big platforms come with monolithic
> buold systems which include resource compilers, and for various reasons
> it's not easy to avoid the use of the resource compiler. So I'm guessing
> small embedded systems. But I can't exactly take a job doing embedded
> programming just to get more experience for building the resource
> compiler. The output files from the Baby X resource compiler should
> compile under pretty much any C compiler out there, however.
> 

Don't base important design decisions on random guesses about things you 
are completely ignorant about.  (Ignorance itself is not a problem - 
none of us know about all kinds of programming situations.  It's basing 
decisions on ignorance that is the problem.)

If you are running a shoe shop, you keep all your stock in pairs.  You 
don't keep them in singles just in case one customer is missing a leg.

> The Baby X resource compiler itself should also compile cleanly and easily
> under any hosted system. That's also an important goal.
> 

That is a completely pointless attitude.

First, is there any indication that anyone has actually used the 
program?  Does anyone who wants to use it, want to compile it?  When I 
am looking for software, if I find a possible option and see it is 
written in ANSI C90, I assume it is some ancient and outdated tool.  It 
/might/ still be useful, but I start with a big negative bias.  (I am 
also biased against fad languages or obscure ones.)

In reality, people are only ever going to use a "resource compiler" on 
two platforms - modern Linux, and modern Windows.  And practically 
everyone who wants to use it would want a binary, not the source code 
(though having the source code available is also good).  ".exe" format 
is more important to users than ANSI C format.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#171588

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-04 02:15 -0700
Message-ID<a1194b2c-6fca-4067-8db0-315b4c4a0ec9n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#171565
On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 10:42:53 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
> On 03/08/2023 00:25, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> > On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 22:48:49 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> >> On 02/08/2023 18:10, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> >>> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 17:05:14 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote: 
> >>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.ar...@gmail.com> writes: 
> >>>> 
> >>>>> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 12:09:16 UTC+1, Bart wrote: 
> >>>>>> On 02/08/2023 11:41, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> >>>> 
> >>>>>>> Then there's exotica such as int_fast32 _t. Which is often what you 
> >>>>>>> really want, but you seldom see it in real code. 
> >>>>> I don't use any of them in the Baby X resource compiler. Audio samples 
> >>>>> are saved as "short", UTF-16 values as "unsigned short". If short 
> >>>>> isn't 16 bits, it might or might not work, but the chances it will 
> >>>>> work are good. If I used int16_t, it would break if short isn't 16 
> >>>>> bits. 
> >>>> int16_t "breaks" if there is no such type, but I think such a type can 
> >>>> exist even if short is not 16 bits. 
> >>>> 
> >>> CHAR_BIT would have to be sixteen. 
> >> No, compilers can have extended integer types. 
> >>>>> And it would break if stdint.h isn't available. So that was an easy 
> >>>>> decision to make. 
> >>>> That rules out the type you probably want -- one of the types you say is 
> >>>> often what is really wanted (int_least16_t). No wonder they are rarely 
> >>>> seen in "real code" if people won't use them even after nearly a quarter 
> >>>> of a century. Are you really limiting yourself to writing C90? 
> >>>> 
> >>> It's best to restrict yourself to the conservative subset of C unless there is 
> >>> really a pressing reason to do otherwise. 
> >> Utter drivel. 
> >> 
> >> It's best to use the C version, and subset thereof, that is suitable for 
> >> writing good, clean code that gives efficient results and is likely to 
> >> work fine for all platforms for which the code is realistically going to 
> >> be of interest. That pretty much /never/ means C90. All you do by 
> >> choosing C90 is give worse quality source code, poorer efficiency in the 
> >> generated code, and home-made half-arsed solutions for problems that 
> >> were solved 25 years ago. 
> >> 
> > Efficiency in the resource compiler itself hardly matters. I tested the string 
> > tag on a 100,000 word novel, and it came back instantly. The string also 
> > compiled and printed out. Efficiency in the output code matters, but the vast 
> > majority of it is static data.
> Quality of source code /always/ matters, unless this is a small 
> throw-away program.
>
Quality matters. Efficiency often doesn't. For example I just encoded a function
to "make comment". This takes a string, checks if it already has enclosing
comment tags, if not adds them, then changes every internal closing comment
tag into "^/" instead of "*/" (what can you do?). It duplicates the string twice.
Of course it would be possible to add four bytes when loading the raw comment
data, and never duplicate the string at all. But that would complicate the program
condiderably, an dunless the user wants a comment several gigabytes long, on
a modern machine it will make not difference at all to execution time.
 
> >>> The Baby X resource compiler 
> >>> is designed for use with Baby X, but it might also find a niche in the 
> >>> toolchains of people writing for small embedded systems. Which 
> >>> might come with old or restricted C compilers. 
> >>> 
> >> It will /never/ happen. So don't worry about it. 
> >> 
> >> And if you were /really/ interested in obscure and outdated embedded 
> >> tools (and some of these are still in use), you might have tried to 
> >> learn a little about them - or ask someone who knows. They'd have 
> >> explained the difference between compilers for code running on the 
> >> target devices, and compilers for code running on host systems. 
> >> 
> > The Baby X resource compiler, as the name implies, is primarily intended 
> > for use with Baby X. Baby X uses int to represent integral values, 
> > double to represent real values, unsigned char to represent arbitrary 
> > binary data, and char * to represent strings. There's no advantage in 
> > using other types, except that now I'm adding audio, the PCM data will 
> > be represented by a short. 
> >
> None of this will ever be of the slightest use on a platform that does 
> not have a good C99 compiler.
>
There's a value in cutting down the number of types the  Baby X API uses.
So we don't want some functions which take an integer taking :int", and
others "size_t" and others "uint32_t" unless of course there's a pressing
need for it. Which there is in a case of audio samples. Traditionally these are
16 bit, so I will use "short" for audio samples when audio is integrated into
Baby X. But that's the only case where there is a pressing need for the API
to take an integer type other than "int". (The other exception is BBX_RGBA
which represents 24-bit color values, that's typedefed so the underlying 
type is opaque). 
> 
> > However I took the decision to separate the resource compiler from Baby X 
> > so it could be used as an independent program by non-Baby X users. 
> > Who those would be I don't know. The big platforms come with monolithic 
> > buold systems which include resource compilers, and for various reasons 
> > it's not easy to avoid the use of the resource compiler. So I'm guessing 
> > small embedded systems. But I can't exactly take a job doing embedded 
> > programming just to get more experience for building the resource 
> > compiler. The output files from the Baby X resource compiler should 
> > compile under pretty much any C compiler out there, however. 
> >
> Don't base important design decisions on random guesses about things you 
> are completely ignorant about. (Ignorance itself is not a problem - 
> none of us know about all kinds of programming situations. It's basing 
> decisions on ignorance that is the problem.) 
> 
> If you are running a shoe shop, you keep all your stock in pairs. You 
> don't keep them in singles just in case one customer is missing a leg.
>
The Baby X resource compiler was developed was an anciliary program
to Baby X. Just as Windows compilers come with a "resource compiler"
which allow you to package images and other binaries, there's a need
for a program which does a similar thing for Baby X. However in the
event, the resource compiler is more popular than Baby X itself.
It can be used by non-Baby X programmers. But who those would be and
why they would wanrt it is a good question.
>
> > The Baby X resource compiler itself should also compile cleanly and easily 
> > under any hosted system. That's also an important goal. 
> >
> That is a completely pointless attitude. 
> 
> First, is there any indication that anyone has actually used the 
> program? Does anyone who wants to use it, want to compile it? When I 
> am looking for software, if I find a possible option and see it is 
> written in ANSI C90, I assume it is some ancient and outdated tool. It 
> /might/ still be useful, but I start with a big negative bias. (I am 
> also biased against fad languages or obscure ones.) 
>
There's regular traffic. Not huge. But obviously some people are 
interested. The problem is that you don't get much feedback. Whether 
these people are just aking the "loadimage" function for their own use,
(which I don't mind), or using the resource compiler itself, I don't know,
because they don't tell me. 
> 
> In reality, people are only ever going to use a "resource compiler" on 
> two platforms - modern Linux, and modern Windows. And practically 
> everyone who wants to use it would want a binary, not the source code 
> (though having the source code available is also good). ".exe" format 
> is more important to users than ANSI C format.
>
The users will be C programmers. But I took your advice and made a Windows
executable available. One download so far.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#171611

FromSpiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-04 14:20 +0000
Message-ID<X=vUTZgAAVQwBn6et@bongo-ra.co>
In reply to#171565
On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:42:36 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> When I 
> am looking for software, if I find a possible option and see it is 
> written in ANSI C90, I assume it is some ancient and outdated tool.  It 
> /might/ still be useful, but I start with a big negative bias.

That's a strange attitude. If it is written in "old" C then likely it
was written a long time ago but it certainly doesn't follow that it is
outdated. The venerable  less  pager is very much standard on Unix
systems and it doesn't even use function prototypes (at least it didn't
a few revisions ago , I haven't looked at the source code of the latest
versions). I can think of a few more likely examples but I haven't
looked at their source. Basically , if it works then hardly anyone will
make it a priority to modify it for a newer version of C.

-- 
Virtue, I discovered, in one way in which a human being may attempt to
diminish and insult others.
  "Captive of Gor"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#171614

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-04 17:12 +0200
Message-ID<uaj4gk$1alq7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#171611
On 04/08/2023 16:20, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:42:36 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> When I
>> am looking for software, if I find a possible option and see it is
>> written in ANSI C90, I assume it is some ancient and outdated tool.  It
>> /might/ still be useful, but I start with a big negative bias.
> 
> That's a strange attitude. If it is written in "old" C then likely it
> was written a long time ago but it certainly doesn't follow that it is
> outdated. 

True, of course.  For some things, old software is just as good as new 
software - if the task hasn't changed, the software does not need to 
change.  But for other kinds of software you want to be sure that it is 
relatively modern, or at least well maintained.  That might be for 
supporting newer formats (in the case of a "resource compiler"), or 
perhaps it is software for which security is a concern.  The software 
might also be written for older and weaker compilers - using "tricks" 
that were popular before, but are undefined behaviour in C and can fail 
with modern compilers.  Being in an ancient C dialect does not guarantee 
that it is outdated, but it is a pointer in that direction.

I would also have no interest in a "resource compiler" that generated C 
files that did not use <stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types when appropriate, 
but perpetuated the inconvenience of home-made types.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#171616

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-04 08:20 -0700
Message-ID<cbe7d004-e90b-41d7-9a34-c711ef9c3949n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#171614
On Friday, 4 August 2023 at 16:12:39 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
> On 04/08/2023 16:20, Spiros Bousbouras wrote: 
> > On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:42:36 +0200 
> > David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote: 
> >> When I 
> >> am looking for software, if I find a possible option and see it is 
> >> written in ANSI C90, I assume it is some ancient and outdated tool. It 
> >> /might/ still be useful, but I start with a big negative bias. 
> > 
> > That's a strange attitude. If it is written in "old" C then likely it 
> > was written a long time ago but it certainly doesn't follow that it is 
> > outdated.
> True, of course. For some things, old software is just as good as new 
> software - if the task hasn't changed, the software does not need to 
> change. But for other kinds of software you want to be sure that it is 
> relatively modern, or at least well maintained. That might be for 
> supporting newer formats (in the case of a "resource compiler"), or 
> perhaps it is software for which security is a concern. The software 
> might also be written for older and weaker compilers - using "tricks" 
> that were popular before, but are undefined behaviour in C and can fail 
> with modern compilers. Being in an ancient C dialect does not guarantee 
> that it is outdated, but it is a pointer in that direction. 
> 
> I would also have no interest in a "resource compiler" that generated C 
> files that did not use <stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types when appropriate, 
> but perpetuated the inconvenience of home-made types.
>
It doesn't output homemade types like "u8" for a char. But it doesn't use
<stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types either. It outputs the basic C types.

That's because it was orignally designed for use with Baby X, which
doesn't use <stdint.h" or <stdbool.h> types in its API interface. 
But I could add a flag to the resource compiler to output <stdint.h>
known width types if people think that that's important.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#171618

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-04 18:04 +0200
Message-ID<uaj7iv$1b5h7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#171616
On 04/08/2023 17:20, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Friday, 4 August 2023 at 16:12:39 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>> On 04/08/2023 16:20, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
>>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:42:36 +0200
>>> David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>>> When I
>>>> am looking for software, if I find a possible option and see it is
>>>> written in ANSI C90, I assume it is some ancient and outdated tool. It
>>>> /might/ still be useful, but I start with a big negative bias.
>>>
>>> That's a strange attitude. If it is written in "old" C then likely it
>>> was written a long time ago but it certainly doesn't follow that it is
>>> outdated.
>> True, of course. For some things, old software is just as good as new
>> software - if the task hasn't changed, the software does not need to
>> change. But for other kinds of software you want to be sure that it is
>> relatively modern, or at least well maintained. That might be for
>> supporting newer formats (in the case of a "resource compiler"), or
>> perhaps it is software for which security is a concern. The software
>> might also be written for older and weaker compilers - using "tricks"
>> that were popular before, but are undefined behaviour in C and can fail
>> with modern compilers. Being in an ancient C dialect does not guarantee
>> that it is outdated, but it is a pointer in that direction.
>>
>> I would also have no interest in a "resource compiler" that generated C
>> files that did not use <stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types when appropriate,
>> but perpetuated the inconvenience of home-made types.
>>
> It doesn't output homemade types like "u8" for a char. But it doesn't use
> <stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types either. It outputs the basic C types.

That would be useless.  Few people doing embedded work have any interest 
in something that turns resources (such as files to be embedded) into 
arrays of "short" or "unsigned long".  Use "int16_t", "uint32_t", or 
whatever matches the resource type.

This can be done in a dozen lines of Python scripting, and I get exactly 
what I need.  I do so regularly for embedded bitmaps, or static files 
for an embedded webserver, and that kind of thing.

> 
> That's because it was orignally designed for use with Baby X, which
> doesn't use <stdint.h" or <stdbool.h> types in its API interface.
> But I could add a flag to the resource compiler to output <stdint.h>
> known width types if people think that that's important.
> 

I think it is.  But I doubt if it will be a big hit with embedded 
programmers anyway.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#171619

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-04 09:17 -0700
Message-ID<2caab55a-f70e-457f-a4d2-ee912c27b681n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#171618
On Friday, 4 August 2023 at 17:05:05 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
> On 04/08/2023 17:20, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> > On Friday, 4 August 2023 at 16:12:39 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> >> On 04/08/2023 16:20, Spiros Bousbouras wrote: 
> >>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:42:36 +0200 
> >>> David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote: 
> >>>> When I 
> >>>> am looking for software, if I find a possible option and see it is 
> >>>> written in ANSI C90, I assume it is some ancient and outdated tool. It 
> >>>> /might/ still be useful, but I start with a big negative bias. 
> >>> 
> >>> That's a strange attitude. If it is written in "old" C then likely it 
> >>> was written a long time ago but it certainly doesn't follow that it is 
> >>> outdated. 
> >> True, of course. For some things, old software is just as good as new 
> >> software - if the task hasn't changed, the software does not need to 
> >> change. But for other kinds of software you want to be sure that it is 
> >> relatively modern, or at least well maintained. That might be for 
> >> supporting newer formats (in the case of a "resource compiler"), or 
> >> perhaps it is software for which security is a concern. The software 
> >> might also be written for older and weaker compilers - using "tricks" 
> >> that were popular before, but are undefined behaviour in C and can fail 
> >> with modern compilers. Being in an ancient C dialect does not guarantee 
> >> that it is outdated, but it is a pointer in that direction. 
> >> 
> >> I would also have no interest in a "resource compiler" that generated C 
> >> files that did not use <stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types when appropriate, 
> >> but perpetuated the inconvenience of home-made types. 
> >> 
> > It doesn't output homemade types like "u8" for a char. But it doesn't use 
> > <stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types either. It outputs the basic C types.
> That would be useless. Few people doing embedded work have any interest 
> in something that turns resources (such as files to be embedded) into 
> arrays of "short" or "unsigned long". Use "int16_t", "uint32_t", or 
> whatever matches the resource type. 
> 
> This can be done in a dozen lines of Python scripting, and I get exactly 
> what I need. I do so regularly for embedded bitmaps, or static files 
> for an embedded webserver, and that kind of thing.
>
Yes, pretty much every C programmer has written a scratch program
to read in a binary and output C source. I can't find a tool that allows you
to get away from that, except the Baby X resource compiler. Whether that
is bad thing, meaning there's no demand for such a tool, or a good thing,
meaning it has a niche no-one else has thought of, I don't know.
> > 
> > That's because it was orignally designed for use with Baby X, which 
> > doesn't use <stdint.h" or <stdbool.h> types in its API interface. 
> > But I could add a flag to the resource compiler to output <stdint.h> 
> > known width types if people think that that's important. 
> >
> I think it is. But I doubt if it will be a big hit with embedded 
> programmers anyway.
>
There's no reason for any of the data to be fixed size that I can think of. 
But what do I know.

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#171678

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-08-05 13:39 +0200
Message-ID<ualceb$1nnq7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#171619
On 04/08/2023 18:17, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Friday, 4 August 2023 at 17:05:05 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>> On 04/08/2023 17:20, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>> On Friday, 4 August 2023 at 16:12:39 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 04/08/2023 16:20, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:42:36 +0200
>>>>> David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>>>>> When I
>>>>>> am looking for software, if I find a possible option and see it is
>>>>>> written in ANSI C90, I assume it is some ancient and outdated tool. It
>>>>>> /might/ still be useful, but I start with a big negative bias.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a strange attitude. If it is written in "old" C then likely it
>>>>> was written a long time ago but it certainly doesn't follow that it is
>>>>> outdated.
>>>> True, of course. For some things, old software is just as good as new
>>>> software - if the task hasn't changed, the software does not need to
>>>> change. But for other kinds of software you want to be sure that it is
>>>> relatively modern, or at least well maintained. That might be for
>>>> supporting newer formats (in the case of a "resource compiler"), or
>>>> perhaps it is software for which security is a concern. The software
>>>> might also be written for older and weaker compilers - using "tricks"
>>>> that were popular before, but are undefined behaviour in C and can fail
>>>> with modern compilers. Being in an ancient C dialect does not guarantee
>>>> that it is outdated, but it is a pointer in that direction.
>>>>
>>>> I would also have no interest in a "resource compiler" that generated C
>>>> files that did not use <stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types when appropriate,
>>>> but perpetuated the inconvenience of home-made types.
>>>>
>>> It doesn't output homemade types like "u8" for a char. But it doesn't use
>>> <stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types either. It outputs the basic C types.
>> That would be useless. Few people doing embedded work have any interest
>> in something that turns resources (such as files to be embedded) into
>> arrays of "short" or "unsigned long". Use "int16_t", "uint32_t", or
>> whatever matches the resource type.
>>
>> This can be done in a dozen lines of Python scripting, and I get exactly
>> what I need. I do so regularly for embedded bitmaps, or static files
>> for an embedded webserver, and that kind of thing.
>>
> Yes, pretty much every C programmer has written a scratch program
> to read in a binary and output C source. I can't find a tool that allows you
> to get away from that, except the Baby X resource compiler. Whether that
> is bad thing, meaning there's no demand for such a tool, or a good thing,
> meaning it has a niche no-one else has thought of, I don't know.

I think most cases need nothing more than converting a single file into 
a const array of uint8_t (or unsigned char if you prefer).  Anything 
other than that, and I would not expect a pre-written tool to support 
what you want because you are likely to have particular needs at the 
time.  When I have embedded fonts, image sequences, directory 
structures, etc., they have always been targeting a particular format 
for the application - general purpose or third-party conversion tools 
would be of no use at all.

Some graphics libraries come with "resource compilers" generating 
results in the format needed for the library.  So if your "Baby X" has 
its own graphics format (or audio format), then a "resource compiler" 
turning standard formats into this internal format would make sense. 
But I fail to see how useful it would be for those not using "Baby X".

I also can't imagine why anyone would want to put strings in an xml file 
instead of just putting them in the source code directly - it gives you 
no advantages.  (If it organised strings and formats for 
internationalisation and translation, that would be a different matter.)

So as I see it, "resource compiling" is either trivial, library-specific 
(in which case a resource compiler could be a useful program), or too 
specialised to be supportable by a general program.

And C23 will cover the trivial case with "#embed".  Of course, it will 
take some time for people to move to C23.


>>>
>>> That's because it was orignally designed for use with Baby X, which
>>> doesn't use <stdint.h" or <stdbool.h> types in its API interface.
>>> But I could add a flag to the resource compiler to output <stdint.h>
>>> known width types if people think that that's important.
>>>
>> I think it is. But I doubt if it will be a big hit with embedded
>> programmers anyway.
>>
> There's no reason for any of the data to be fixed size that I can think of.
> But what do I know.
> 

Embedded programmers like fixed sizes, even when they are not strictly 
necessary.  I think it is critical to be very clear that the types you 
use are big enough to support the data and ranges you want.  And in 
embedded systems, you never want to waste space without reason - so you 
want to be sure things are not bigger than they have to be.  The ideal 
type choices are therefore "uint_least16_t" and similar "least" types 
from <stdint.h>.  However, since the "least" types match the fixed size 
types in almost every case (and programming for targets that don't 
support 8-bit and 16-bit types directly is niche and dedicated work), 
the norm is to use "uint16_t" and similar fixed-size types.

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#171679

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-05 05:08 -0700
Message-ID<1aceef78-a719-424e-9234-63bc7531105cn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#171678
On Saturday, 5 August 2023 at 12:40:10 UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
> On 04/08/2023 18:17, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> > On Friday, 4 August 2023 at 17:05:05 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> >> On 04/08/2023 17:20, Malcolm McLean wrote: 
> >>> On Friday, 4 August 2023 at 16:12:39 UTC+1, David Brown wrote: 
> >>>> On 04/08/2023 16:20, Spiros Bousbouras wrote: 
> >>>>> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 11:42:36 +0200 
> >>>>> David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote: 
> >>>>>> When I 
> >>>>>> am looking for software, if I find a possible option and see it is 
> >>>>>> written in ANSI C90, I assume it is some ancient and outdated tool. It 
> >>>>>> /might/ still be useful, but I start with a big negative bias. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> That's a strange attitude. If it is written in "old" C then likely it 
> >>>>> was written a long time ago but it certainly doesn't follow that it is 
> >>>>> outdated. 
> >>>> True, of course. For some things, old software is just as good as new 
> >>>> software - if the task hasn't changed, the software does not need to 
> >>>> change. But for other kinds of software you want to be sure that it is 
> >>>> relatively modern, or at least well maintained. That might be for 
> >>>> supporting newer formats (in the case of a "resource compiler"), or 
> >>>> perhaps it is software for which security is a concern. The software 
> >>>> might also be written for older and weaker compilers - using "tricks" 
> >>>> that were popular before, but are undefined behaviour in C and can fail 
> >>>> with modern compilers. Being in an ancient C dialect does not guarantee 
> >>>> that it is outdated, but it is a pointer in that direction. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> I would also have no interest in a "resource compiler" that generated C 
> >>>> files that did not use <stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types when appropriate, 
> >>>> but perpetuated the inconvenience of home-made types. 
> >>>> 
> >>> It doesn't output homemade types like "u8" for a char. But it doesn't use 
> >>> <stdint.h> or <stdbool.h> types either. It outputs the basic C types. 
> >> That would be useless. Few people doing embedded work have any interest 
> >> in something that turns resources (such as files to be embedded) into 
> >> arrays of "short" or "unsigned long". Use "int16_t", "uint32_t", or 
> >> whatever matches the resource type. 
> >> 
> >> This can be done in a dozen lines of Python scripting, and I get exactly 
> >> what I need. I do so regularly for embedded bitmaps, or static files 
> >> for an embedded webserver, and that kind of thing. 
> >> 
> > Yes, pretty much every C programmer has written a scratch program 
> > to read in a binary and output C source. I can't find a tool that allows you 
> > to get away from that, except the Baby X resource compiler. Whether that 
> > is bad thing, meaning there's no demand for such a tool, or a good thing, 
> > meaning it has a niche no-one else has thought of, I don't know.
> I think most cases need nothing more than converting a single file into 
> a const array of uint8_t (or unsigned char if you prefer). Anything 
> other than that, and I would not expect a pre-written tool to support 
> what you want because you are likely to have particular needs at the 
> time. When I have embedded fonts, image sequences, directory 
> structures, etc., they have always been targeting a particular format 
> for the application - general purpose or third-party conversion tools 
> would be of no use at all. 
>
This is the problem of course.  The Baby X API expects data in a certain format.
So all the API functions which operate on images take a 32 bit RGBA buffer
as an "unsigned char *", and the dimensions as two ints. But another API might
use an opaque "IMAGE" structure. Or another system might have 16 bit r5g5b5a1
images.
Of course I could put in a flexible format specifier. But it would rapidly turn into
a scripting laugage in its onw right. In which case you might as well use Python.  
>
> Some graphics libraries come with "resource compilers" generating 
> results in the format needed for the library. So if your "Baby X" has 
> its own graphics format (or audio format), then a "resource compiler" 
> turning standard formats into this internal format would make sense. 
> But I fail to see how useful it would be for those not using "Baby X". 
>
Reality is that the resouce compiler is more popular than Baby X. But
exactly how people are using it, I don't know
>
> I also can't imagine why anyone would want to put strings in an xml file 
> instead of just putting them in the source code directly - it gives you 
> no advantages. (If it organised strings and formats for 
> internationalisation and translation, that would be a different matter.) 
>
There is an "international" tag so you can do this
<international name = "hello">
<string language = "english">Hello</string>
<string language = "french">Bonjour</string>
<utf8 language = "chinese"> [utf8 here] </utf8> 
</international> 

Then it creates a C-callable function which is passed the languafe and returns
thr right string.
 
>
> So as I see it, "resource compiling" is either trivial, library-specific 
> (in which case a resource compiler could be a useful program), or too 
> specialised to be supportable by a general program. 
> 
> And C23 will cover the trivial case with "#embed". Of course, it will 
> take some time for people to move to C23.
>
Yes. Whilst of course there is a <binary> tag to allow for the trivial case,
that isn't the strength of the Baby X resource compiler. The strength is the ability
to transform data from complex input formats to simple output formats.
>
> >>> 
> >>> That's because it was orignally designed for use with Baby X, which 
> >>> doesn't use <stdint.h" or <stdbool.h> types in its API interface. 
> >>> But I could add a flag to the resource compiler to output <stdint.h> 
> >>> known width types if people think that that's important. 
> >>> 
> >> I think it is. But I doubt if it will be a big hit with embedded 
> >> programmers anyway. 
> >> 
> > There's no reason for any of the data to be fixed size that I can think of. 
> > But what do I know. 
> >
> Embedded programmers like fixed sizes, even when they are not strictly 
> necessary. I think it is critical to be very clear that the types you 
> use are big enough to support the data and ranges you want. And in 
> embedded systems, you never want to waste space without reason - so you 
> want to be sure things are not bigger than they have to be. The ideal 
> type choices are therefore "uint_least16_t" and similar "least" types 
> from <stdint.h>. However, since the "least" types match the fixed size 
> types in almost every case (and programming for targets that don't 
> support 8-bit and 16-bit types directly is niche and dedicated work), 
> the norm is to use "uint16_t" and similar fixed-size types.
>
I might add a flag for stdint.h types. Whilst it's fairly trivial in algorithmic terms,
it complicates the output code quite a bit, and will make it harder for somone
coming new to the program to modify.

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