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Groups > comp.lang.c > #111046

Re: C Macros Badly Defined?

From Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: C Macros Badly Defined?
Date 2017-05-31 12:43 -0700
Organization None to speak of
Message-ID <lnshjkq0c2.fsf@kst-u.example.com> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <lnbmq9rijy.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <5a862af8-50eb-443c-8562-a3ae8e9cd9da@googlegroups.com> <lnwp8xoudz.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <267ed825-c65c-4e0f-ad39-29ccbd348e8c@googlegroups.com> <%DEXA.54278$fR7.17881@fx42.iad>

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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
>>As nearly as I can tell this use of "shall" in a technical
>>sense is confined to constraints (the definition of which I
>>don't think is clear - but everybody knows what they mean).
>>Is there a use of "shall" anywhere outside a constraint?

(Perhaps David has forgotten that I killfiled him.)

> While don't have the C spec handy, Posix defines 'shall' as follows:
>
> shall
>
>    For an implementation that conforms to POSIX.1-2008, describes a
>    feature or behavior that is mandatory. An application can rely
>    on the existence of the feature or behavior.
>
>    For an application or user, describes a behavior that is mandatory.
>
>
> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap01.html

The C standard defines its use of "shall" in section 4, paragraphs
1 and 2:

    In this International Standard, "shall" is to be interpreted as
    a requirement on an implementation or on a program; conversely,
    "shall not" is to be interpreted as a prohibition.

    If a "shall" or "shall not" requirement that appears outside
    of a constraint or runtime constraint is violated, the behavior
    is undefined. Undefined behavior is otherwise indicated in this
    International Standard by the words "undefined behavior" or by
    the omission of any explicit definition of behavior. There is 
    no difference in emphasis among these three; they all describe
    "behavior that is undefined".

5.1.1.3p1 says that violations of constraints (and of syntax rules) must
be diagnosed.

There are numerous occurrences of "shall" both inside and outside
constraints.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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Thread

Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-24 08:16 -0700
  Re: C Macros Badly Defined? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-24 10:43 -0700
    Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-05-24 19:06 +0000
    Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-27 06:10 -0700
      Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-27 12:02 -0700
        Re: C Macros Badly Defined? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-27 13:42 -0700
          Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-27 15:48 -0700
            Re: C Macros Badly Defined? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-28 14:40 -0700
            Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-29 08:33 -0700
        Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-29 08:17 -0700
          Re: C Macros Badly Defined? bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-05-29 16:26 +0100
            Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-05-30 06:13 -0700
              Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-05-30 09:57 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-05-30 19:12 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-30 14:55 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-30 15:39 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-05-30 16:03 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-30 16:50 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-05-30 17:12 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-31 06:30 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-05-31 09:36 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 12:08 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-05-31 19:16 +0000
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 12:35 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-06-01 04:06 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 10:33 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-01 12:00 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 15:35 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-01 17:26 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 20:48 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-05-31 12:43 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 21:50 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-03 11:36 +0000
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-06-03 11:44 +0000
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-06-03 09:19 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-06-03 16:22 +0000
                Re: Standards in various formats Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2017-06-01 13:24 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? jadill33@gmail.com - 2017-05-31 13:02 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-05-30 22:06 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-05-31 12:51 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-31 06:21 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-05-31 17:16 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 17:24 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-05-31 22:18 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 23:09 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-05-31 17:32 -0400
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-05-31 23:50 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-05-31 18:01 -0400
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 00:33 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-05-31 22:36 -0400
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 06:08 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-06-01 11:08 -0400
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 01:30 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 11:38 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 03:13 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 12:25 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 04:48 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 14:27 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 05:55 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-06-01 11:11 -0400
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 17:40 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-02 08:32 +1200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 23:14 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-06-01 14:41 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-02 09:48 +1200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-02 00:56 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-02 11:12 +1200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-03 11:54 +0000
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Leon Taylor <leontaylor476@gmail.com> - 2017-06-03 05:10 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-04 14:32 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-06-01 21:44 +0000
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-03 11:51 +0000
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-06-01 21:38 +0000
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-02 11:10 +1200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-06-01 23:34 +0000
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-03 11:48 +0000
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-01 08:56 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-02 14:11 +0200
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-06-02 10:02 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-03 11:45 +0000
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-05-31 09:11 -0700
                Re: C Macros Badly Defined? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-06-03 11:29 +0000

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