Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming

From	Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming
Date	2023-10-03 03:29 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<86sf6sc82x.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <20230925155845.139@kylheku.com> <86sf71itgt.fsf@linuxsc.com> <87msx9u09c.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <86o7hpiggw.fsf@linuxsc.com> <87fs31tgnj.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>

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Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes:

> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:
>
>> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-09-24, Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> h only makes sense if you're passing a signed argument and want
>>>>>> it printed as unsigned.  Say we have 16 bit short and 32 bit int.
>>>>>> Then "%u"/(short) -1 will print as 429496725, whereas
>>>>>> "%hu"/(short) -1 will obtain the desired 65535.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is something I had neglected to mention:  the use of h for
>>>>> portability
>>>>>
>>>>> If we have "%u" paired with an unsigned short, argument we have a
>>>>> mismatch on a large number of platforms, where unsigned short
>>>>> promotes to int.  The %u specifier wants unsigned int.
>>>>
>>>> A %u conversion specification is always okay for an unsigned
>>>> short argument, regardless of whether the argument promotes to
>>>> int or to unsigned int.  Reading an integer-typed variadic
>>>> argument with the corresponding type of the other signedness
>>>> is allowed when the argument value is representable in both
>>>> types, which it always will be in this case even if unsigned
>>>> short promotes to int.
>>>
>>> Agreed, but unfortunately the standard doesn't quite say that in
>>> normative text -- until C23, as I discovered while writing this.
>>> [...]
>>
>> My position is that this rule was intended since at least C99
>> (and perhaps earlier) but was not expressed at unambiguously as
>> one might like.
>
> It was not expressed in normative text, ambiguously or otherwise.
>
>> Also I believe there is support for this view if one consults
>> various historical documents done by the ISO C committee.
>
> You wouldn't have specific citations, would you?
>
> In any case, the language is defined by the standard, not by
> historical documents with wording that never made it into the
> standard.  No implementer or programmer should have to consult
> "historical documents" to determine what the standard requires.
>
>> Also I think it is rather pointless to debate whether the C
>> standard does or does not "say that in normative text" when
>> the normative text that is there lends itself to different
>> interpretations.  We all agree on what words are used;  what
>> the words mean in this case is more a subjective reaction
>> than an objective fact.  And is pretty much beside the point
>> since what was intended and what was understood is the same
>> for most of the people who are familiar with the C standard.
>
> You consider it pointless.  I don't.  I find both the intent behind
> the standard and what the standard says interesting.  In this case,
> they were two different things, and I consider that to be a flaw
> in the standard.  I'm glad the flaw is being corrected in C23.

I repeat my previous statements.

Thread

Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-09 13:23 +0300
  Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-09-09 03:56 -0700
  Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-09 15:06 +0000
  Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-09 15:44 +0000
  Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-09-10 17:57 +0000
    Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-10 23:49 +0300
      Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-10 21:25 +0000
  Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-12 16:07 -0700
    Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-17 00:44 +0300
  Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-17 16:51 -0700
    Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-19 01:10 +0300
      Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-19 07:58 -0700
      Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-19 10:33 -0700
        Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-19 15:08 -0700
          Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-09-19 15:35 -0700
          Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-19 22:49 +0000
            Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-19 22:30 -0700
              Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-20 02:46 -0700
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-20 07:06 -0700
              Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-20 21:03 +0000
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-25 14:08 -0700
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-25 21:27 +0000
          Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-19 22:17 -0700
        Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-24 00:39 +0300
          Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-23 21:48 +0000
          Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-09-24 00:15 -0400
          Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-09-24 11:48 +0000
            Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-24 16:08 +0000
              Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-25 13:21 -0700
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-25 21:06 +0000
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-25 18:43 -0700
              Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-25 23:14 +0000
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-25 19:00 -0700
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-26 02:38 +0000
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-25 23:42 -0700
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-25 19:38 -0700
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-25 23:41 -0700
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-26 02:42 -0700
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-10-03 03:29 -0700
            Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-24 16:11 +0000
            Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-09-24 12:28 -0400
              Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-24 17:10 +0000
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-09-24 13:56 -0400
            Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-09-30 13:50 +0300
              Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-10-01 17:43 +0000
          Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-25 09:21 -0700
            Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-25 18:06 +0000
              Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-25 15:24 -0700
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-25 23:49 +0000
                Re: Dymamic arrays: memory management and naming Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-26 00:07 +0000

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