Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks"

From	Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks"
Date	2024-03-03 18:18 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<20240303092938.43@kylheku.com> (permalink)
References	<us0brl$246bf$1@dont-email.me> <us1lb5$2f4n4$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 2024-03-03, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> On 03/03/2024 00:13, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks"
>> 
>> https://www.pcmag.com/news/white-house-to-developers-using-c-plus-plus-invites-cybersecurity-risks
>> 
>> "The Biden administration backs a switch to more memory-safe programming 
>> languages. The tech industry sees their point, but it won't be easy."
>> 
>> No.  The feddies want to regulate software development very much.  They 
>> have been talking about it for at least 20 years now.  This is a very 
>> bad thing.
>> 
>> Lynn
>
> It's the wrong solution to the wrong problem.
>
> It is not languages like C and C++ that are "unsafe".  It is the 
> programmers that write the code for them.  As long as the people 
> programming in Rust or other modern languages are the more capable and 
> qualified developers - the ones who think about memory safety, correct 
> code, testing, and quality software development - then code written in 
> Rust will be better quality and safer than the average C, C++, Java and 
> C# code.

Programmers who think about safety, correctness and quality and all that
have way fewer diagnostics and more footguns if they are coding in C
compared to Rust.

I think, you can't just wave away the characteristics of Rust as making
no difference in this regard.

> But if it gets popular enough for schools and colleges to teach Rust 
> programming course to the masses, and it gets used by developers who are 
> paid per KLoC, given responsibilities well beyond their abilities and 
> experience, lead by incompetent managers, untrained in good development 
> practices and pushed to impossible deadlines, then the average quality 
> of programs in Rust will drop to that of average C and C++ code.

The rhetoric you hear from Rust people about this is that coders taking
a safety shortcut to make something work have to explicitly ask for that
in Rust. It leaves a visible trace.  If something goes wrong because of
an unsafe block, you can trace that to the commit which added it.

The rhetoric all sounds good.

However, like you, I also believe it boils down to people, in a
somewhat different way. To use Rust productively, you have to be one of
the rare idiot savants who are smart enough to use it *and* numb to all
the inconveniences.

The reason the average programmer won't make any safety
boo-boos using Rust is that the average programmer either isn't smart
enough to use it at all, or else doesn't want to put up with the fuss:
they will opt for some safe language which is easy to use.

Rust's problem is that we have safe languages in which you can almost
crank out working code with your eyes closed. (Or if not working,
then at least code in which the only uncaught bugs are your logic bugs,
not some undefined behavior from integer overflow or array out of
bounds.)

This is why Rust people are desperately pitching Rust as an alternative
for C and whatnot, and showcasing it being used in the kernel and
whatnot.

Trying to be both safe and efficient to be able to serve as a "C
replacement" is a clumsy hedge that makes Rust an awkward language.

You know the parable about the fox that tries to chase two rabbits.

The alternative to Rust in application development is pretty much any
convenient, "easy" high level language, plus a little bit of C.
You can get a small quantity of C right far more easily than a large
quantity of C. It's almost immaterial.

An important aspect of Rust is the ownership-based memory management.

The problem is, the "garbage collection is bad" era is /long/ behind us.

Scoped ownership is a half-baked solution to the object lifetime
problem, that gets in the way of the programmer and isn't appropriate
for the vast majority of software tasks.

Embedded systems often need custom memory management, not something that
the language imposes. C has malloc, yet even that gets disused in favor
of something else.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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"White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-03-02 17:13 -0600
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 00:05 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 13:42 -0800
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" John McCue <jmccue@neutron.jmcunx.com> - 2024-03-03 02:10 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 03:30 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-03 08:54 +0000
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 20:11 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 13:49 -0800
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-03 22:11 +0000
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 23:27 +0000
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-07 06:46 +0000
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-03 08:52 +0000
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-03 11:10 +0200
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-03 12:01 +0100
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-03-03 16:03 +0100
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-03 18:18 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-03 21:23 +0100
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 14:01 -0800
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-04 09:44 +0100
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 11:38 +0000
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 12:46 -0800
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 12:36 -0800
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 12:41 -0800
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-05 10:01 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 12:51 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-06 11:43 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 14:18 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-08 13:23 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-09 13:25 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-09 14:16 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-09 14:18 -0800
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 23:31 +0000
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-03-04 17:05 +0100
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-04 18:24 +0100
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-03-05 02:46 +0100
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-05 11:23 +0100
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 20:10 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Andreas Kempe <kempe@lysator.liu.se> - 2024-03-03 20:57 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 14:06 -0800
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-03 23:29 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 15:53 -0800
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-04 01:00 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 11:44 +0000
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-04 21:07 +0000
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-05 00:59 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 01:54 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 22:18 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 07:06 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 23:10 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-05 11:11 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 22:58 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-06 14:02 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-06 12:28 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-07 00:00 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-07 11:35 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-07 13:44 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-07 16:36 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-07 17:18 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-03-08 14:41 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-08 15:07 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-08 15:15 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-08 17:55 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-03-08 10:08 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-07 16:35 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-08 08:25 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-08 12:57 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-08 15:32 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-08 16:57 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 01:45 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" aph@littlepinkcloud.invalid - 2024-03-06 14:30 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 01:46 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 18:00 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-07 02:37 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 20:36 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 01:44 +0000
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-03-04 00:44 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 12:57 -0800
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 13:48 -0800
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-03 15:31 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 00:09 -0600
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 07:07 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-05 14:56 +0000
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-03-03 22:14 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 14:15 -0800
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 00:02 -0600
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2024-03-03 23:59 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 16:06 -0800
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-04 05:43 +0000
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 13:15 -0800
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-04 21:26 +0000
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 13:28 -0800
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 13:29 -0800
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 02:46 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 19:40 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 04:43 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 21:23 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 07:07 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 13:48 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-06 00:25 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 22:01 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 23:42 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-07 16:21 -0800
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-03-05 03:32 +0100
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 19:42 -0800
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 00:03 -0600
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-05 07:08 +0000
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-05 11:27 +0100
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 13:01 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-05 21:24 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 13:44 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 14:11 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 14:34 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-06 14:31 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-06 13:50 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-06 16:18 +0200
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-06 14:38 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-06 19:46 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-06 19:50 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-03-06 14:14 -0500
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-06 19:50 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-06 21:13 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-03-08 21:36 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-12 00:07 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-03-11 20:05 -0700
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-03-06 19:27 -0500
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 03:06 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-03-07 14:28 -0500
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 23:44 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 07:42 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 14:14 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 13:58 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 14:02 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-06 14:34 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 14:13 -0800
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-07 23:43 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-08 09:01 +0100
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-12 00:03 +0000
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 11:54 +0000
        Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-04 15:41 +0100
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-04 15:28 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 18:51 +0000
          Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-04 21:11 +0000
            Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-05 11:31 +0100
              Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-03-06 00:25 +0000
                Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-06 14:40 +0100
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Derek <derek-nospam@shape-of-code.com> - 2024-03-04 12:18 +0000
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-04 12:52 -0800
  Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-03-05 21:51 +0800
    Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-03-06 15:43 +0800
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-03-12 15:54 -0300
      Re: "White House to Developers: Using C or C++ Invites Cybersecurity Risks" Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-03-12 16:00 -0300

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