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Laurel or Yanny

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  Laurel or Yanny Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2018-05-20 17:04 -0400
    Re: Laurel or Yanny Piergiorgio Sartor <piergiorgio.sartor.this.should.not.be.used@nexgo.REMOVETHIS.de> - 2018-05-20 23:12 +0200
      Re: Laurel or Yanny spope384@gmail.com (Steve Pope) - 2018-05-20 21:55 +0000
      Re: Laurel or Yanny Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2018-05-20 21:44 -0400
        Re: Laurel or Yanny spope384@gmail.com (Steve Pope) - 2018-05-21 03:48 +0000
        Re: Laurel or Yanny Piergiorgio Sartor <piergiorgio.sartor.this.should.not.be.used@nexgo.REMOVETHIS.de> - 2018-05-21 09:19 +0200
    Re: Laurel or Yanny gyansorova@gmail.com - 2018-05-20 14:50 -0700
      Re: Laurel or Yanny theman@ericjacobsen.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2018-05-22 17:53 +0000
        Re: Laurel or Yanny gyansorova@gmail.com - 2018-05-22 14:47 -0700
    Re: Laurel or Yanny benjamin.couillard@gmail.com - 2018-05-22 05:50 -0700
      Re: Laurel or Yanny theman@ericjacobsen.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2018-05-22 17:52 +0000
        Re: Laurel or Yanny Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2018-05-26 01:18 -0400
          Re: Laurel or Yanny Piergiorgio Sartor <piergiorgio.sartor.this.should.not.be.used@nexgo.REMOVETHIS.de> - 2018-05-26 10:51 +0200
            Re: Laurel or Yanny Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2018-05-26 10:08 -0400
    Re: Laurel or Yanny Tim Sprout <timsprout@gci.net> - 2018-05-22 15:30 -0800

#34421 — Laurel or Yanny

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel

Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."

Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
(alleged) ambiguity?
-- 
Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

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#34422

On 2018-05-20 23:04, Randy Yates wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel
> 
> Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."
> 
> Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
> (alleged) ambiguity?

I think it is quite well explained in the wikipedia link you posted.

Like there are opticall illusions, there are acustical too.

bye,

-- 

piergiorgio

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#34424

Piergiorgio Sartor  <piergiorgio.sartor.this.should.not.be.used@nexgo.REMOVETHIS.de> wrote:

>On 2018-05-20 23:04, Randy Yates wrote:

>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel

>> Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."

>> Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
>> (alleged) ambiguity?
>
>I think it is quite well explained in the wikipedia link you posted.
>
>Like there are opticall illusions, there are acustical too.

It's a good wikipedia entry, however I suspect one could do a deep
dive into human aquisition of phoneme recognition and how it
drives this illusion.

Perhaps there's a correlation with where and when one acquired 
one's English language, or other first language.

Tangentially I now know why (some) opera singers pronounce Italian
in a strange manner .. they're working from phonetic spellings...

S.

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#34425

Piergiorgio Sartor
<piergiorgio.sartor.this.should.not.be.used@nexgo.REMOVETHIS.de> writes:

> On 2018-05-20 23:04, Randy Yates wrote:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel
>> 
>> Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."
>> 
>> Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
>> (alleged) ambiguity?
>
> I think it is quite well explained in the wikipedia link you posted.

The article provides suggestions and comparisons with optical illusions
in the scientific analysis section.

That isn't my idea of "well-explained."
-- 
Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

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#34426

Randy Yates  <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> wrote:

>Piergiorgio Sartor

>> I think it is quite well explained in the wikipedia link you posted.

>The article provides suggestions and comparisons with optical illusions
>in the scientific analysis section.

>That isn't my idea of "well-explained."

Well, Wikipedia editors can't do their own analysis so they are
limited in that sense.  

Were someone to publish a better analysis, then that could be
included in the Wiki page.

It is ripe for more analysis, and possibly even applications.
(Some sort of "code-talking" comes to mind.)


Steve

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#34427

On 2018-05-21 03:44, Randy Yates wrote:
[...]
> The article provides suggestions and comparisons with optical illusions
> in the scientific analysis section.
> 
> That isn't my idea of "well-explained."

It seems to me there are several links to different
level of explanations.

In any case, what is your idea of "well-explained",
when we talk about *optical* illusions?

bye,

-- 

piergiorgio

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#34423

On Monday, May 21, 2018 at 9:04:49 AM UTC+12, Randy Yates wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel
> 
> Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."
> 
> Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
> (alleged) ambiguity?
> -- 
> Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
> Digital Signal Labs
> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

Brainstorm or Green Needle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXxV2C1ri2k

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#34430

On Sun, 20 May 2018 14:50:19 -0700 (PDT), gyansorova@gmail.com wrote:

>On Monday, May 21, 2018 at 9:04:49 AM UTC+12, Randy Yates wrote:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel
>> 
>> Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."
>> 
>> Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
>> (alleged) ambiguity?
>> -- 
>> Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
>> Digital Signal Labs
>> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>
>Brainstorm or Green Needle
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXxV2C1ri2k

I only hear green needle, but it's interesting that that's not what's
intended.   This seems even stranger since it's a change from two
syllables to three.

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#34431

On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 5:53:59 AM UTC+12, Eric Jacobsen wrote:
> On Sun, 20 May 2018 14:50:19 -0700 (PDT), gyansorova@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> >On Monday, May 21, 2018 at 9:04:49 AM UTC+12, Randy Yates wrote:
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel
> >> 
> >> Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."
> >> 
> >> Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
> >> (alleged) ambiguity?
> >> -- 
> >> Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
> >> Digital Signal Labs
> >> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
> >
> >Brainstorm or Green Needle
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXxV2C1ri2k
> 
> I only hear green needle, but it's interesting that that's not what's
> intended.   This seems even stranger since it's a change from two
> syllables to three.

I can hear either just by thinking of the word before it is played. What witchery is this I doth ask. 

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#34428

Le dimanche 20 mai 2018 17:04:49 UTC-4, Randy Yates a écrit :
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel
> 
> Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."
> 
> Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
> (alleged) ambiguity?
> -- 
> Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
> Digital Signal Labs
> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

I heard Laurel on the radio then I heard Yanny on youtube. I think it has to do with the frequency response. The FM radio + my car sound system is not ideal for high-frequency sounds. OTOH, my home is quiet and I have a better sound system so I could hear the higher frequencies better.

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#34429

On Tue, 22 May 2018 05:50:16 -0700 (PDT), benjamin.couillard@gmail.com
wrote:

>Le dimanche 20 mai 2018 17:04:49 UTC-4, Randy Yates a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel
>>=20
>> Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."
>>=20
>> Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
>> (alleged) ambiguity?
>> --=20
>> Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
>> Digital Signal Labs
>> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>
>I heard Laurel on the radio then I heard Yanny on youtube. I think it has t=
>o do with the frequency response. The FM radio + my car sound system is not=
> ideal for high-frequency sounds. OTOH, my home is quiet and I have a bette=
>r sound system so I could hear the higher frequencies better.

I heard Yanni the very first instance the first time I heard it played
repetitively, but Laurel ever since then.  Very interesting.

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#34435

theman@ericjacobsen.org (Eric Jacobsen) writes:

> On Tue, 22 May 2018 05:50:16 -0700 (PDT), benjamin.couillard@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>>Le dimanche 20 mai 2018 17:04:49 UTC-4, Randy Yates a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel
>>>=20
>>> Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."
>>>=20
>>> Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
>>> (alleged) ambiguity?
>>> --=20
>>> Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
>>> Digital Signal Labs
>>> http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
>>
>>I heard Laurel on the radio then I heard Yanny on youtube. I think it has t=
>>o do with the frequency response. The FM radio + my car sound system is not=
>> ideal for high-frequency sounds. OTOH, my home is quiet and I have a bette=
>>r sound system so I could hear the higher frequencies better.
>
> I heard Yanni the very first instance the first time I heard it played
> repetitively, but Laurel ever since then.  Very interesting.

A change with the same listener on the same equipment is very
odd indeed!
-- 
Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

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#34439

On 2018-05-26 07:18, Randy Yates wrote:
[...]
>> I heard Yanni the very first instance the first time I heard it played
>> repetitively, but Laurel ever since then.  Very interesting.
> 
> A change with the same listener on the same equipment is very
> odd indeed!
> 

Why odd?

You know this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinning_Dancer

Well, it is possible, with some focusing, to change
the spinning direction.

Like the acustic illusion, this one has two possible
interpretation, which can be switched, with some
effort indeed.

bye,

-- 

piergiorgio

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#34440

Piergiorgio Sartor
<piergiorgio.sartor.this.should.not.be.used@nexgo.REMOVETHIS.de> writes:

> On 2018-05-26 07:18, Randy Yates wrote:
> [...]
>>> I heard Yanni the very first instance the first time I heard it played
>>> repetitively, but Laurel ever since then.  Very interesting.
>> 
>> A change with the same listener on the same equipment is very
>> odd indeed!
>> 
>
> Why odd?
>
> You know this:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinning_Dancer
>
> Well, it is possible, with some focusing, to change
> the spinning direction.
>
> Like the acustic illusion, this one has two possible
> interpretation, which can be switched, with some
> effort indeed.

Thanks Piergiorgio. I think I saw this some years ago. This is a real
mind job! I could see it both ways, initially counter.
-- 
Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

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#34432

On 5/20/2018 1:04 PM, Randy Yates wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel
> 
> Is this for real? All I hear is unambiguously "Laurel."
> 
> Are there any objective, scientific analyses exploring this
> (alleged) ambiguity?

A recent New York Times article discusses this. May be helpful:

<https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/16/upshot/audio-clip-yanny-laurel-debate.html>


The internet erupted in disagreement on Tuesday over an audio clip in
which the name being said depends on the listener. Some hear “Laurel.”
Others hear “Yanny.”

We built a tool to gradually accentuate different frequencies in the
original audio clip. Which word or name do you hear, and how far do you
have to move the slider to hear the other? (The slider’s center point
represents the original recording.)

The clip and original “Yanny or Laurel” poll were posted on Instagram,
Reddit and other sites by high school students who said that it had been
recorded from a vocabulary website playing through the speakers on a
computer.

One detail may frustrate some and vindicate others: The original clip
came from the vocabulary.com page for “laurel,” the word for a wreath
worn on the head, “usually a symbol of victory.”

One way to understand the dynamics at work is to look at a type of
chart called a spectrogram — a way to visualize how the strength of
different sound frequencies varies over time. The spectrograms above
show that the word “laurel” is strongest in lower frequencies, while a
simulated version of the word “yanny” is stronger in higher frequencies.
The audio clip shows a mixture of both.

By using the slider to manipulate which frequencies are emphasized, it
makes one word or the other more prominent.



-Tim Sprout

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