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Re: VHS Tape Collectors

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  Re: VHS Tape Collectors felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> - 2017-03-20 13:42 +1100
    Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-20 11:03 +0800
      Re: VHS Tape Collectors BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-20 14:18 -0600
        Re: VHS Tape Collectors not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-03-20 22:15 +0000
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors Lucifer Morningstar <Barry@saymyname.com> - 2017-03-21 10:09 +1100
            Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-21 08:51 +0800
              Re: VHS Tape Collectors Lucifer Morningstar <Barry@saymyname.com> - 2017-03-21 13:34 +1100
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> - 2017-03-21 11:47 +1100
            Re: VHS Tape Collectors not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-03-22 22:21 +0000
        Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-21 06:47 +0800
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> - 2017-03-21 15:24 +1100
            Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-21 14:10 +0800
              Re: VHS Tape Collectors BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-21 10:17 -0600
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-22 09:18 +1100
                  Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-22 13:31 +0800
                    Re: VHS Tape Collectors BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-22 10:04 -0600
                    Re: VHS Tape Collectors Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-23 06:30 +1100
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-22 19:28 +1000
                  Re: VHS Tape Collectors Trevor <trevor@home.net> - 2017-03-22 21:29 +1100
                    Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-22 20:41 +1000
                      Re: VHS Tape Collectors Trevor <trevor@home.net> - 2017-03-24 12:23 +1100
                      Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-25 10:05 +0800
                  Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-22 20:22 +0000
                    Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-23 10:26 +1000
                  Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-23 12:28 +0800
                    Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-23 16:20 +1000
                      Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-23 22:45 +0800
                    Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-23 14:39 +0000
                      Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-24 22:20 +0800
                        Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-24 14:55 +0000
                          Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-25 07:04 +0800
                            Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-26 20:14 +0000
                              Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-04-04 17:43 +0800
                                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2017-04-05 07:44 +1000
                                  Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-04-05 08:07 +0800
                                    Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-04-05 14:26 +1000
                                      Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-04-05 14:05 +0800
                                        Re: VHS Tape Collectors felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> - 2017-04-05 19:34 +1000
                                          Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:20 +1000
                                        Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:19 +1000
                          Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-25 12:26 +1000
                            Re: VHS Tape Collectors "Blue Heeler" <woof@barque.org> - 2017-03-25 02:47 +0000
                              Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-25 13:47 +1000
                                Re: VHS Tape Collectors "Blue Heeler" <woof@barque.org> - 2017-03-25 03:56 +0000
                                  Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-25 15:36 +1000
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-22 20:09 +0000
            Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-23 12:38 +0800
              Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-23 14:34 +0000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-24 06:49 +0800
        Re: VHS Tape Collectors felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> - 2017-03-21 11:42 +1100
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-21 10:24 -0600
        Re: VHS Tape Collectors Trevor <trevor@home.net> - 2017-03-21 18:50 +1100
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-21 10:31 -0600
            Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-22 07:53 +0800

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#59228 — Re: VHS Tape Collectors

On Monday, 20 Mar 2017 8:04 AM, BruceS wrote:
> On 03/18/2017 08:36 PM, felix wrote:
>> On Thursday, 16 Mar 2017 10:52 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 15/03/2017 10:27 PM, Trevor wrote:
>>>> On 15/03/2017 11:45 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 15/03/2017 5:54 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>> Trevor <trevor@home.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 14/03/2017 9:16 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>>> That said, I wouldn't go to the trouble of
>>>>>>>> transferring them all to HDD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Me either, but only because *very few* are worth the effort 
>>>>>>> involved.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (or HDDs, because they have been known to be much less reliable
>>>>>>>> than tapes), so maybe it's a moot point anyway.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No. With digital you can have as many back-ups as needed, and
>>>>>>> transfer
>>>>>>> them as often as necessary without further degradation. 
>>>>>>> Something you
>>>>>>> simply cannot do with any analog media.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having to make backups because the medium itself (Hard Disks) is
>>>>>> less reliable is half of the effort. Especially because some HDD
>>>>>> models of old have been known to "stick" and fail to spin up after
>>>>>> being left unused for a long time, so I'd have to keep checking
>>>>>> them as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not only that, but formats, interfaces, operating systems and 
>>>>> codecs or
>>>>> become obsolete change which can complicate matters.
>>>>
>>>> Right, and Beta/VHS players will never become obsolete of course. Oh
>>>> wait, they already are!
>>>>
>>> How long did that take? The medium remains intact in any event, much
>>> more reliably then digital formats.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of my old Backup DVD's and CD's are unreadable after a few years
>>>>> kept in temperature stable dry conditions whilst I have home recorded
>>>>> audio and video cassettes that are 30+ years old kept in less than
>>>>> ideal
>>>>> storage that still work perfectly.
>>>>
>>>> I still have some Phillips format video tapes. Try finding a player 
>>>> for
>>>> those now! Also some Umatic tapes. You can find players for those, but
>>>> it would be hard to justify the cost!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Try finding a working Zip disk reader,
>>
>> I have several; read and write
>>
>>> floptical or or 2.88mb floppy disk drive.
>>>
>>>> But one thing you should remember is that audio and video data 
>>>> files are
>>>> often recoverable where program files would not be. One bit error on a
>>>> program and it's toast.
>
> As a software developer, I can tell you that this is absolutely not
> absolutely true.  Flipping one bit *could* be fatal to an executable,
> or it could have little to no effect.  Theoretically, it could even
> improve the program, though I don't recommend random bit-flipping as
> any sort of bug-fix strategy.
>
> All this talk of obsolete formats reminded me that I have some old
> Travan TR-1 backup tapes.  One is still in its wrapper, so I know that
> has no value, two others are marked as full backups from 1998, and
> another three are opened but unlabeled.  I have no idea what's on
> these, other than whatever I felt 19 years ago was worth backing up.  I
> also don't know where the drive is, if I still have it.  I just have to
> assume that anything I haven't wanted in that long is probably not
> worth much trouble trying to recover.  Each tape holds an amazing 400MB
> (800MB compressed with their rather optimistic estimate of compression).
>
> I also recently brought back to life an old PC that uses EIDE drives.
> My current desktop won't even take those, only having SATA connectors.
> I have very limited options getting data from the one to the other.

not really, just put a card in to give you ide ports, or use an IDE to 
SATA adapter. or you could use a docking station http://tinyurl.com/kwhx75u

> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,

I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that 
still works!

> while I have a 256GB thumb drive.
>
> I also still have a few 3.5" floppies ("stiffies")

none of that dirty talk here, thank you! lol.

> , which I could read
> on the old machine, and then transfer to the new if there's any value
> to it.  That's a big "if".

I still have a 3.5 floppy drive in the current machine. even have a 
5.25" drive in one PC

>   Even all these old CDs I have for software
> are of little likely value, since anything coming on a CD probably runs
> on an obsolete OS.  There are a few backups mixed in with those, but
> those are also likely worthless, as I'd copy from one hard drive to
> another when upgrading.


-- 
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

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#59229

On 20/03/2017 10:42 AM, felix wrote:
> On Monday, 20 Mar 2017 8:04 AM, BruceS wrote:
>> On 03/18/2017 08:36 PM, felix wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 16 Mar 2017 10:52 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 15/03/2017 10:27 PM, Trevor wrote:
>>>>> On 15/03/2017 11:45 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/03/2017 5:54 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>> Trevor <trevor@home.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 14/03/2017 9:16 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>>>> That said, I wouldn't go to the trouble of
>>>>>>>>> transferring them all to HDD
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Me either, but only because *very few* are worth the effort
>>>>>>>> involved.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (or HDDs, because they have been known to be much less reliable
>>>>>>>>> than tapes), so maybe it's a moot point anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No. With digital you can have as many back-ups as needed, and
>>>>>>>> transfer
>>>>>>>> them as often as necessary without further degradation.
>>>>>>>> Something you
>>>>>>>> simply cannot do with any analog media.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having to make backups because the medium itself (Hard Disks) is
>>>>>>> less reliable is half of the effort. Especially because some HDD
>>>>>>> models of old have been known to "stick" and fail to spin up after
>>>>>>> being left unused for a long time, so I'd have to keep checking
>>>>>>> them as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not only that, but formats, interfaces, operating systems and
>>>>>> codecs or
>>>>>> become obsolete change which can complicate matters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right, and Beta/VHS players will never become obsolete of course. Oh
>>>>> wait, they already are!
>>>>>
>>>> How long did that take? The medium remains intact in any event, much
>>>> more reliably then digital formats.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of my old Backup DVD's and CD's are unreadable after a few years
>>>>>> kept in temperature stable dry conditions whilst I have home recorded
>>>>>> audio and video cassettes that are 30+ years old kept in less than
>>>>>> ideal
>>>>>> storage that still work perfectly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still have some Phillips format video tapes. Try finding a player
>>>>> for
>>>>> those now! Also some Umatic tapes. You can find players for those, but
>>>>> it would be hard to justify the cost!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Try finding a working Zip disk reader,
>>>
>>> I have several; read and write
>>>
>>>> floptical or or 2.88mb floppy disk drive.
>>>>
>>>>> But one thing you should remember is that audio and video data
>>>>> files are
>>>>> often recoverable where program files would not be. One bit error on a
>>>>> program and it's toast.
>>
>> As a software developer, I can tell you that this is absolutely not
>> absolutely true.  Flipping one bit *could* be fatal to an executable,
>> or it could have little to no effect.  Theoretically, it could even
>> improve the program, though I don't recommend random bit-flipping as
>> any sort of bug-fix strategy.
>>
>> All this talk of obsolete formats reminded me that I have some old
>> Travan TR-1 backup tapes.  One is still in its wrapper, so I know that
>> has no value, two others are marked as full backups from 1998, and
>> another three are opened but unlabeled.  I have no idea what's on
>> these, other than whatever I felt 19 years ago was worth backing up.  I
>> also don't know where the drive is, if I still have it.  I just have to
>> assume that anything I haven't wanted in that long is probably not
>> worth much trouble trying to recover.  Each tape holds an amazing 400MB
>> (800MB compressed with their rather optimistic estimate of compression).
>>
>> I also recently brought back to life an old PC that uses EIDE drives.
>> My current desktop won't even take those, only having SATA connectors.
>> I have very limited options getting data from the one to the other.
>
> not really, just put a card in to give you ide ports, or use an IDE to
> SATA adapter. or you could use a docking station http://tinyurl.com/kwhx75u
>
>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>
> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that
> still works!

I have two or three 40mb drives that still work. One MFM/RLL drive in a 
portable that still works too but each time I fire it up I'm afraid it 
will be it's last. Those old things don't fill you with much confidence 
as they chug away.

The dodgiest drive still in regular use is in an old Compaq Armada which 
I use with my EPROMmer and for diagnostics on older vehicles.

It's drive developed bad sectors 10+ years ago and I simply partitioned 
them out as a temporary measure and it's remained that way since.


>
>> while I have a 256GB thumb drive.
>>
>> I also still have a few 3.5" floppies ("stiffies")
>
> none of that dirty talk here, thank you! lol.
>
>> , which I could read
>> on the old machine, and then transfer to the new if there's any value
>> to it.  That's a big "if".
>
> I still have a 3.5 floppy drive in the current machine. even have a
> 5.25" drive in one PC
>

I have a separate machine for that which also has a 3.5" and 5.25" 
floppy. I've used it to recover and write floppies for other 8 bit 
computers (like a TRS-80 model 1 for instance).

>>   Even all these old CDs I have for software
>> are of little likely value, since anything coming on a CD probably runs
>> on an obsolete OS.  There are a few backups mixed in with those, but
>> those are also likely worthless, as I'd copy from one hard drive to
>> another when upgrading.
>
>

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#59230

On 03/19/2017 09:03 PM, Clocky wrote:
> On 20/03/2017 10:42 AM, felix wrote:
>> On Monday, 20 Mar 2017 8:04 AM, BruceS wrote:
>>> On 03/18/2017 08:36 PM, felix wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, 16 Mar 2017 10:52 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 15/03/2017 10:27 PM, Trevor wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/03/2017 11:45 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 15/03/2017 5:54 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>>> Trevor <trevor@home.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 14/03/2017 9:16 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> That said, I wouldn't go to the trouble of
>>>>>>>>>> transferring them all to HDD
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Me either, but only because *very few* are worth the effort
>>>>>>>>> involved.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (or HDDs, because they have been known to be much less reliable
>>>>>>>>>> than tapes), so maybe it's a moot point anyway.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No. With digital you can have as many back-ups as needed, and
>>>>>>>>> transfer
>>>>>>>>> them as often as necessary without further degradation.
>>>>>>>>> Something you
>>>>>>>>> simply cannot do with any analog media.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having to make backups because the medium itself (Hard Disks) is
>>>>>>>> less reliable is half of the effort. Especially because some HDD
>>>>>>>> models of old have been known to "stick" and fail to spin up after
>>>>>>>> being left unused for a long time, so I'd have to keep checking
>>>>>>>> them as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not only that, but formats, interfaces, operating systems and
>>>>>>> codecs or
>>>>>>> become obsolete change which can complicate matters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right, and Beta/VHS players will never become obsolete of course. Oh
>>>>>> wait, they already are!
>>>>>>
>>>>> How long did that take? The medium remains intact in any event, much
>>>>> more reliably then digital formats.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of my old Backup DVD's and CD's are unreadable after a few
>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>> kept in temperature stable dry conditions whilst I have home
>>>>>>> recorded
>>>>>>> audio and video cassettes that are 30+ years old kept in less than
>>>>>>> ideal
>>>>>>> storage that still work perfectly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I still have some Phillips format video tapes. Try finding a player
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> those now! Also some Umatic tapes. You can find players for those,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> it would be hard to justify the cost!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Try finding a working Zip disk reader,
>>>>
>>>> I have several; read and write
>>>>
>>>>> floptical or or 2.88mb floppy disk drive.
>>>>>
>>>>>> But one thing you should remember is that audio and video data
>>>>>> files are
>>>>>> often recoverable where program files would not be. One bit error
>>>>>> on a
>>>>>> program and it's toast.
>>>
>>> As a software developer, I can tell you that this is absolutely not
>>> absolutely true.  Flipping one bit *could* be fatal to an executable,
>>> or it could have little to no effect.  Theoretically, it could even
>>> improve the program, though I don't recommend random bit-flipping as
>>> any sort of bug-fix strategy.
>>>
>>> All this talk of obsolete formats reminded me that I have some old
>>> Travan TR-1 backup tapes.  One is still in its wrapper, so I know that
>>> has no value, two others are marked as full backups from 1998, and
>>> another three are opened but unlabeled.  I have no idea what's on
>>> these, other than whatever I felt 19 years ago was worth backing up.  I
>>> also don't know where the drive is, if I still have it.  I just have to
>>> assume that anything I haven't wanted in that long is probably not
>>> worth much trouble trying to recover.  Each tape holds an amazing 400MB
>>> (800MB compressed with their rather optimistic estimate of compression).
>>>
>>> I also recently brought back to life an old PC that uses EIDE drives.
>>> My current desktop won't even take those, only having SATA connectors.
>>> I have very limited options getting data from the one to the other.
>>
>> not really, just put a card in to give you ide ports, or use an IDE to
>> SATA adapter. or you could use a docking station
>> http://tinyurl.com/kwhx75u

I do have an adapter, so I can plug in one EIDE drive at a time, and
transfer whatever seems to be of value to the newer machine's drive, or
to a separate backup.  That's probably what I'll do, though I also have
a crossover cable, so with the right setup I could transfer between the
machines.  I don't think any of this is worth the cost and trouble of
getting a new controller card.

>>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>>
>> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that
>> still works!

How is it worth running tiny hard drives when you can put it all on a
flash drive for little cost, no moving parts, and easy connection to
any modern machine?

> I have two or three 40mb drives that still work. One MFM/RLL drive in a
> portable that still works too but each time I fire it up I'm afraid it
> will be it's last. Those old things don't fill you with much confidence
> as they chug away.
>
> The dodgiest drive still in regular use is in an old Compaq Armada which
> I use with my EPROMmer and for diagnostics on older vehicles.
>
> It's drive developed bad sectors 10+ years ago and I simply partitioned
> them out as a temporary measure and it's remained that way since.

That's another point against the old, small-capacity drives.  I was a
bit relieved that all my old drives even run.  Once I get the good data
off them, I'll probably clear them and either give or throw them away.

>>> while I have a 256GB thumb drive.
>>>
>>> I also still have a few 3.5" floppies ("stiffies")
>>
>> none of that dirty talk here, thank you! lol.
>>
>>> , which I could read
>>> on the old machine, and then transfer to the new if there's any value
>>> to it.  That's a big "if".
>>
>> I still have a 3.5 floppy drive in the current machine. even have a
>> 5.25" drive in one PC
>>
>
> I have a separate machine for that which also has a 3.5" and 5.25"
> floppy. I've used it to recover and write floppies for other 8 bit
> computers (like a TRS-80 model 1 for instance).

You wouldn't happen to have a paper tape reader as well, would you?

>>>   Even all these old CDs I have for software
>>> are of little likely value, since anything coming on a CD probably runs
>>> on an obsolete OS.  There are a few backups mixed in with those, but
>>> those are also likely worthless, as I'd copy from one hard drive to
>>> another when upgrading.

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#59233

In aus.tv BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/19/2017 09:03 PM, Clocky wrote:
> 
>>>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>>>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>>>
>>> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that
>>> still works!
> 
> How is it worth running tiny hard drives when you can put it all on a
> flash drive for little cost, no moving parts, and easy connection to
> any modern machine?

Well I'm replying from a computer running from a 2GB Hard Disk (and
another 1.[something]GB one that's turned off because I just use that
for Windows and DOS). If you're going to play around with old stuff,
you might as well go the whole hog. Besides, I can transfer stuff
over FTP to other machines without any hassle, in fact I backup to
a USB HDD connected to my laptop that way.

Flash drives are also known to wear out from the regular writes
that OS partitions are subjected to, which could be an issue if
you use the machine often. I do use them a lot with PCMCIA
adapters in old laptops.

With any general use machine I find 40GB to be big enough not to
worry about - I'm not sure what everyone uses so much data for
these days. Just tons and tons of illegally downloaded videos
I suppose...

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#59235

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 22:15:16 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:

>Well I'm replying from a computer running from a 2GB Hard Disk

My bedside computer is an Apple Powerbook G3 laptop.
It has a 2GB hard disk and 32MB RAM. It runs OS9.2 and I
use it to stream audio from the internet.

-- 
There are two types of people in this world
Atheists and the mentally ill

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#59238

On 21/03/2017 7:09 AM, Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 22:15:16 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
> (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
>
>> Well I'm replying from a computer running from a 2GB Hard Disk
>
> My bedside computer is an Apple Powerbook G3 laptop.
> It has a 2GB hard disk and 32MB RAM. It runs OS9.2 and I
> use it to stream audio from the internet.
>

Why not use your phone, or is it an original Nokia 3310? ;-)

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#59239

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:51:04 +0800, Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> wrote:

>On 21/03/2017 7:09 AM, Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 22:15:16 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
>> (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
>>
>>> Well I'm replying from a computer running from a 2GB Hard Disk
>>
>> My bedside computer is an Apple Powerbook G3 laptop.
>> It has a 2GB hard disk and 32MB RAM. It runs OS9.2 and I
>> use it to stream audio from the internet.
>>
>
>Why not use your phone, or is it an original Nokia 3310? ;-)

I have an Iphone 5s but the Powerbook does the job.

-- 
There are two types of people in this world
Atheists and the mentally ill

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#59237

On Tuesday, 21 Mar 2017 9:15 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> In aus.tv BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 03/19/2017 09:03 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>
>>>>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>>>>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>>>> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that
>>>> still works!
>> How is it worth running tiny hard drives when you can put it all on a
>> flash drive for little cost, no moving parts, and easy connection to
>> any modern machine?
> Well I'm replying from a computer running from a 2GB Hard Disk (and
> another 1.[something]GB one that's turned off because I just use that
> for Windows and DOS). If you're going to play around with old stuff,
> you might as well go the whole hog. Besides, I can transfer stuff
> over FTP to other machines without any hassle,

what would be the method of doing that?

>   in fact I backup to
> a USB HDD connected to my laptop that way.
>
> Flash drives are also known to wear out from the regular writes
> that OS partitions are subjected to,

yes, and it's why you should not defrag SSD's

>   which could be an issue if
> you use the machine often. I do use them a lot with PCMCIA
> adapters in old laptops.
>
> With any general use machine I find 40GB to be big enough not to
> worry about - I'm not sure what everyone uses so much data for
> these days. Just tons and tons of illegally downloaded videos
> I suppose...
>


-- 
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

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#59260

In aus.tv felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 Mar 2017 9:15 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> In aus.tv BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 03/19/2017 09:03 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>>>>>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>>>>> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that
>>>>> still works!
>>> How is it worth running tiny hard drives when you can put it all on a
>>> flash drive for little cost, no moving parts, and easy connection to
>>> any modern machine?
>> Well I'm replying from a computer running from a 2GB Hard Disk (and
>> another 1.[something]GB one that's turned off because I just use that
>> for Windows and DOS). If you're going to play around with old stuff,
>> you might as well go the whole hog. Besides, I can transfer stuff
>> over FTP to other machines without any hassle,
> 
> what would be the method of doing that?

For normal file transfer, just run an FTP server on one machine, and
a FTP client on the other. My laptop and the old desktop have both
installed.

For the backup, I start the FTP server on the laptop with the default
directory in the backup folder on the USB backup drive. Then log in
on the desktop with a command line FTP client and issue a command
like:
put |"sudo dd bs=512 if=/dev/hda" HD1.img

This makes an image of one of the HDDs, and streams the data over
FTP to the file "HD1.img" on the backup drive connected to the
laptop.

I also use "tar" the same way to create an archive of the individual
files on the drive. To make an image of the drive that holds the
operating system, I boot from a Live CD.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#59234

On 21/03/2017 4:18 AM, BruceS wrote:
> On 03/19/2017 09:03 PM, Clocky wrote:
>> On 20/03/2017 10:42 AM, felix wrote:


<snip>

>>> not really, just put a card in to give you ide ports, or use an IDE to
>>> SATA adapter. or you could use a docking station
>>> http://tinyurl.com/kwhx75u
>

> I do have an adapter, so I can plug in one EIDE drive at a time, and
> transfer whatever seems to be of value to the newer machine's drive, or
> to a separate backup.  That's probably what I'll do, though I also have
> a crossover cable, so with the right setup I could transfer between the
> machines.  I don't think any of this is worth the cost and trouble of
> getting a new controller card.
>

I have a few USB external drives here and simply plug in the drive to 
whatever interface matches. Not an elegant solution, but it works.


>>>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>>>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>>>
>>> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that
>>> still works!
>
> How is it worth running tiny hard drives when you can put it all on a
> flash drive for little cost, no moving parts, and easy connection to
> any modern machine?
>

I don't think he means he's running them but that they still work. I 
have a collection of drives that are sometimes used to resurrect/test or 
repair vintage stuff but they don't see regular use nor do they have 
anything that's important on them (or it's been backed up elsewhere).

Flash drives fail too btw as flash memory has limited write/erase cycles 
(albeit it 10's of thousands+). Whilst that might not affect drives used 
for backups (but can if you run some operating systems from one)

Having said that, I've had only one fail that was used for data transfer.

>> I have two or three 40mb drives that still work. One MFM/RLL drive in a
>> portable that still works too but each time I fire it up I'm afraid it
>> will be it's last. Those old things don't fill you with much confidence
>> as they chug away.
>>
>> The dodgiest drive still in regular use is in an old Compaq Armada which
>> I use with my EPROMmer and for diagnostics on older vehicles.
>>
>> It's drive developed bad sectors 10+ years ago and I simply partitioned
>> them out as a temporary measure and it's remained that way since.
>
> That's another point against the old, small-capacity drives.  I was a
> bit relieved that all my old drives even run.  Once I get the good data
> off them, I'll probably clear them and either give or throw them away.
>

This particular one sees regular use and should be backed up... one day.

The laptop has a primitive USB port so the entire contents of the HDD 
could be put on a 2GB USB stick even so there is no excuse.

>>>> while I have a 256GB thumb drive.
>>>>
>>>> I also still have a few 3.5" floppies ("stiffies")
>>>
>>> none of that dirty talk here, thank you! lol.
>>>
>>>> , which I could read
>>>> on the old machine, and then transfer to the new if there's any value
>>>> to it.  That's a big "if".
>>>
>>> I still have a 3.5 floppy drive in the current machine. even have a
>>> 5.25" drive in one PC
>>>
>>
>> I have a separate machine for that which also has a 3.5" and 5.25"
>> floppy. I've used it to recover and write floppies for other 8 bit
>> computers (like a TRS-80 model 1 for instance).
>
> You wouldn't happen to have a paper tape reader as well, would you?
>

No I don't and I don't know anyone who has one.
Do you have some paper tapes and what were they from?

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#59240

On Tuesday, 21 Mar 2017 9:47 AM, Clocky wrote:
> On 21/03/2017 4:18 AM, BruceS wrote:
>> On 03/19/2017 09:03 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 20/03/2017 10:42 AM, felix wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> not really, just put a card in to give you ide ports, or use an IDE to
>>>> SATA adapter. or you could use a docking station
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/kwhx75u
>>
>
>> I do have an adapter, so I can plug in one EIDE drive at a time, and
>> transfer whatever seems to be of value to the newer machine's drive, or
>> to a separate backup.  That's probably what I'll do, though I also have
>> a crossover cable, so with the right setup I could transfer between the
>> machines.  I don't think any of this is worth the cost and trouble of
>> getting a new controller card.
>>
>
> I have a few USB external drives here and simply plug in the drive to 
> whatever interface matches. Not an elegant solution, but it works.

I have three external boxes USB permanently connected, two SATA and one 
IDE. very handy. just pop whatever drive you want to use in

>
>
>
>>>>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>>>>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>>>>
>>>> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that
>>>> still works!
>>
>> How is it worth running tiny hard drives when you can put it all on a
>> flash drive for little cost, no moving parts, and easy connection to
>> any modern machine?
>>
>
> I don't think he means he's running them but that they still work.

yes

> I have a collection of drives that are sometimes used to 
> resurrect/test or repair vintage stuff but they don't see regular use 
> nor do they have anything that's important on them (or it's been 
> backed up elsewhere).
>
> Flash drives fail too btw as flash memory has limited write/erase 
> cycles (albeit it 10's of thousands+). Whilst that might not affect 
> drives used for backups (but can if you run some operating systems 
> from one)
>
> Having said that, I've had only one fail that was used for data transfer.
>
>>> I have two or three 40mb drives that still work. One MFM/RLL drive in a
>>> portable that still works too but each time I fire it up I'm afraid it
>>> will be it's last. Those old things don't fill you with much confidence
>>> as they chug away.
>>>
>>> The dodgiest drive still in regular use is in an old Compaq Armada 
>>> which
>>> I use with my EPROMmer and for diagnostics on older vehicles.
>>>
>>> It's drive developed bad sectors 10+ years ago and I simply partitioned
>>> them out as a temporary measure and it's remained that way since.
>>
>> That's another point against the old, small-capacity drives.  I was a
>> bit relieved that all my old drives even run.  Once I get the good data
>> off them, I'll probably clear them and either give or throw them away.
>>
>
> This particular one sees regular use and should be backed up... one day.
>
> The laptop has a primitive USB port so the entire contents of the HDD 
> could be put on a 2GB USB stick even so there is no excuse.
>
>>>>> while I have a 256GB thumb drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also still have a few 3.5" floppies ("stiffies")
>>>>
>>>> none of that dirty talk here, thank you! lol.
>>>>
>>>>> , which I could read
>>>>> on the old machine, and then transfer to the new if there's any value
>>>>> to it.  That's a big "if".
>>>>
>>>> I still have a 3.5 floppy drive in the current machine. even have a
>>>> 5.25" drive in one PC
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have a separate machine for that which also has a 3.5" and 5.25"
>>> floppy. I've used it to recover and write floppies for other 8 bit
>>> computers (like a TRS-80 model 1 for instance).
>>
>> You wouldn't happen to have a paper tape reader as well, would you?
>>
>
> No I don't and I don't know anyone who has one.
> Do you have some paper tapes and what were they from?
>
>

I think it was humour considering all the old stuff you (we) have


-- 
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59241

On 21/03/2017 12:24 PM, felix wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 Mar 2017 9:47 AM, Clocky wrote:
>> On 21/03/2017 4:18 AM, BruceS wrote:
>>> On 03/19/2017 09:03 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 20/03/2017 10:42 AM, felix wrote:
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>> not really, just put a card in to give you ide ports, or use an IDE to
>>>>> SATA adapter. or you could use a docking station
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/kwhx75u
>>>
>>
>>> I do have an adapter, so I can plug in one EIDE drive at a time, and
>>> transfer whatever seems to be of value to the newer machine's drive, or
>>> to a separate backup.  That's probably what I'll do, though I also have
>>> a crossover cable, so with the right setup I could transfer between the
>>> machines.  I don't think any of this is worth the cost and trouble of
>>> getting a new controller card.
>>>
>>
>> I have a few USB external drives here and simply plug in the drive to
>> whatever interface matches. Not an elegant solution, but it works.
>
> I have three external boxes USB permanently connected, two SATA and one
> IDE. very handy. just pop whatever drive you want to use in
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>>>>>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that
>>>>> still works!
>>>
>>> How is it worth running tiny hard drives when you can put it all on a
>>> flash drive for little cost, no moving parts, and easy connection to
>>> any modern machine?
>>>
>>
>> I don't think he means he's running them but that they still work.
>
> yes
>
>> I have a collection of drives that are sometimes used to
>> resurrect/test or repair vintage stuff but they don't see regular use
>> nor do they have anything that's important on them (or it's been
>> backed up elsewhere).
>>
>> Flash drives fail too btw as flash memory has limited write/erase
>> cycles (albeit it 10's of thousands+). Whilst that might not affect
>> drives used for backups (but can if you run some operating systems
>> from one)
>>
>> Having said that, I've had only one fail that was used for data transfer.
>>
>>>> I have two or three 40mb drives that still work. One MFM/RLL drive in a
>>>> portable that still works too but each time I fire it up I'm afraid it
>>>> will be it's last. Those old things don't fill you with much confidence
>>>> as they chug away.
>>>>
>>>> The dodgiest drive still in regular use is in an old Compaq Armada
>>>> which
>>>> I use with my EPROMmer and for diagnostics on older vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> It's drive developed bad sectors 10+ years ago and I simply partitioned
>>>> them out as a temporary measure and it's remained that way since.
>>>
>>> That's another point against the old, small-capacity drives.  I was a
>>> bit relieved that all my old drives even run.  Once I get the good data
>>> off them, I'll probably clear them and either give or throw them away.
>>>
>>
>> This particular one sees regular use and should be backed up... one day.
>>
>> The laptop has a primitive USB port so the entire contents of the HDD
>> could be put on a 2GB USB stick even so there is no excuse.
>>
>>>>>> while I have a 256GB thumb drive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also still have a few 3.5" floppies ("stiffies")
>>>>>
>>>>> none of that dirty talk here, thank you! lol.
>>>>>
>>>>>> , which I could read
>>>>>> on the old machine, and then transfer to the new if there's any value
>>>>>> to it.  That's a big "if".
>>>>>
>>>>> I still have a 3.5 floppy drive in the current machine. even have a
>>>>> 5.25" drive in one PC
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a separate machine for that which also has a 3.5" and 5.25"
>>>> floppy. I've used it to recover and write floppies for other 8 bit
>>>> computers (like a TRS-80 model 1 for instance).
>>>
>>> You wouldn't happen to have a paper tape reader as well, would you?
>>>
>>
>> No I don't and I don't know anyone who has one.
>> Do you have some paper tapes and what were they from?
>>
>>
>
> I think it was humour considering all the old stuff you (we) have
>
>

Yeah, I was wondering, but I was asked in all seriousness once.

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#59243

On 03/21/2017 12:10 AM, Clocky wrote:
> On 21/03/2017 12:24 PM, felix wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 21 Mar 2017 9:47 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 21/03/2017 4:18 AM, BruceS wrote:
>>>> On 03/19/2017 09:03 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 20/03/2017 10:42 AM, felix wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>>> not really, just put a card in to give you ide ports, or use an
>>>>>> IDE to
>>>>>> SATA adapter. or you could use a docking station
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/kwhx75u
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I do have an adapter, so I can plug in one EIDE drive at a time, and
>>>> transfer whatever seems to be of value to the newer machine's drive, or
>>>> to a separate backup.  That's probably what I'll do, though I also have
>>>> a crossover cable, so with the right setup I could transfer between the
>>>> machines.  I don't think any of this is worth the cost and trouble of
>>>> getting a new controller card.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have a few USB external drives here and simply plug in the drive to
>>> whatever interface matches. Not an elegant solution, but it works.
>>
>> I have three external boxes USB permanently connected, two SATA and one
>> IDE. very handy. just pop whatever drive you want to use in
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>>>>>>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that
>>>>>> still works!
>>>>
>>>> How is it worth running tiny hard drives when you can put it all on a
>>>> flash drive for little cost, no moving parts, and easy connection to
>>>> any modern machine?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think he means he's running them but that they still work.
>>
>> yes

Even so, to me that's just clutter.  I'm pretty bad about keeping old
junk, being a pack rat, but I'm trying to improve.  I once helped a
friend whose church group was helping an old church member replace his
water heater.  The old guy lived in a trailer, and the clutter in it
was unbelievable.  From the front door, there was a path to the kitchen
sink; the rest of that room was full of piles of things like
newspapers, stacked several feet high.  Some other rooms were similarly
full, with little actual living space.  I don't want to end up like
that guy, especially as my house is somewhat larger, so the amount of
clutter it could hold would be enormous.  Every once in a while, I go
through, trying to get rid of junk.  Tiny drives definitely fit that
description for me, as did the tapes, floppies, etc.  I think even the
200GB hard drive will be counted as clutter during this round of
cleanup.

>>> I have a collection of drives that are sometimes used to
>>> resurrect/test or repair vintage stuff but they don't see regular use
>>> nor do they have anything that's important on them (or it's been
>>> backed up elsewhere).
>>>
>>> Flash drives fail too btw as flash memory has limited write/erase
>>> cycles (albeit it 10's of thousands+). Whilst that might not affect
>>> drives used for backups (but can if you run some operating systems
>>> from one)
>>>
>>> Having said that, I've had only one fail that was used for data
>>> transfer.

I hadn't heard that flash had failures within any conceivable usage
level.  I'll have to look into that, as my main computer (the one I'm
on now) uses an SSD for the OS.  It has a 1TB drive, but drunken me
used fdisk, without even having written down the pre-edit numbers, much
less doing a backup first.  I've tried a couple of tools to recover it,
but without success.  I can't even recall just what's on it that I care
about, though I think there are a bunch of pictures.  The pack rat side
of me hates the idea of repartitioning it and losing all that.  So I
keep using the SSD instead.

>>>>> I have two or three 40mb drives that still work. One MFM/RLL drive
>>>>> in a
>>>>> portable that still works too but each time I fire it up I'm afraid it
>>>>> will be it's last. Those old things don't fill you with much
>>>>> confidence
>>>>> as they chug away.
>>>>>
>>>>> The dodgiest drive still in regular use is in an old Compaq Armada
>>>>> which
>>>>> I use with my EPROMmer and for diagnostics on older vehicles.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's drive developed bad sectors 10+ years ago and I simply
>>>>> partitioned
>>>>> them out as a temporary measure and it's remained that way since.
>>>>
>>>> That's another point against the old, small-capacity drives.  I was a
>>>> bit relieved that all my old drives even run.  Once I get the good data
>>>> off them, I'll probably clear them and either give or throw them away.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This particular one sees regular use and should be backed up... one day.
>>>
>>> The laptop has a primitive USB port so the entire contents of the HDD
>>> could be put on a 2GB USB stick even so there is no excuse.

Given my own record for doing backups, I'm not one to criticize, but I
strongly suggest you do that backup before the failure, rather than
after.

>>>>>>> while I have a 256GB thumb drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also still have a few 3.5" floppies ("stiffies")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> none of that dirty talk here, thank you! lol.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> , which I could read
>>>>>>> on the old machine, and then transfer to the new if there's any
>>>>>>> value
>>>>>>> to it.  That's a big "if".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I still have a 3.5 floppy drive in the current machine. even have a
>>>>>> 5.25" drive in one PC
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a separate machine for that which also has a 3.5" and 5.25"
>>>>> floppy. I've used it to recover and write floppies for other 8 bit
>>>>> computers (like a TRS-80 model 1 for instance).
>>>>
>>>> You wouldn't happen to have a paper tape reader as well, would you?
>>>>
>>>
>>> No I don't and I don't know anyone who has one.
>>> Do you have some paper tapes and what were they from?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I think it was humour considering all the old stuff you (we) have
>>
>>
>
> Yeah, I was wondering, but I was asked in all seriousness once.

Yes, that was just humor.  We had one for an old mainframe I worked on,
along with the card readers.  That machine also had hard drives the
size of washing machines.  I think they held something like 5MB each.
We used those big reel-to-reel tape drives for backup, and stored the
tapes in a highly secure vault, with fire protection, etc.  At one
point I realized how long it had been since they'd changed the
combination on the vault, and that most of the people who'd known it
were no longer employees.

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#59247

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 10:17:15 -0600, BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>Even so, to me that's just clutter.  I'm pretty bad about keeping old
>junk, being a pack rat, but I'm trying to improve.  I once helped a
>friend whose church group was helping an old church member replace his
>water heater.  The old guy lived in a trailer, and the clutter in it
>was unbelievable.  From the front door, there was a path to the kitchen
>sink; the rest of that room was full of piles of things like
>newspapers, stacked several feet high.  Some other rooms were similarly
>full, with little actual living space.  I don't want to end up like
>that guy, especially as my house is somewhat larger, so the amount of
>clutter it could hold would be enormous.  Every once in a while, I go
>through, trying to get rid of junk.  Tiny drives definitely fit that
>description for me, as did the tapes, floppies, etc.  I think even the
>200GB hard drive will be counted as clutter during this round of
>cleanup.

I was the same, until late last year. Since then I value space in my
sheds more than I value the crap that "I might use some day". This
year I have removed literally tons of crap by selling most of it and
made about $15K into the bargain. My impending extended OS trip this
year has been fully paid for just through doing this. The local post
office loves me for the amount of business I've brought them too <G>.

>I hadn't heard that flash had failures within any conceivable usage
>level.  I'll have to look into that, as my main computer (the one I'm
>on now) uses an SSD for the OS.  It has a 1TB drive, but drunken me
>used fdisk, without even having written down the pre-edit numbers, much
>less doing a backup first.  I've tried a couple of tools to recover it,
>but without success. 


I can wholeheartedly recommend 'Wondershare Data Recovery'.
A few months ago I had a mainboard develop a fault, it was constantly
rebooting (for a day or two at a guess). I had a 4TB USB drive
attached and it fucked the drive's TOC or something. I tried a few
programmes but they couldn't find much data. Then I downloaded a
cracked version of Wondershare Data Recovery and after 3 or 4 days, I
had completely recovered almost 4TB of data... a 100% recovery. I was
so grateful and impressed that I paid for a legit copy.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59250

On 22/03/2017 6:18 AM, Je�us wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 10:17:15 -0600, BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Even so, to me that's just clutter.  I'm pretty bad about keeping old
>> junk, being a pack rat, but I'm trying to improve.  I once helped a
>> friend whose church group was helping an old church member replace his
>> water heater.  The old guy lived in a trailer, and the clutter in it
>> was unbelievable.  From the front door, there was a path to the kitchen
>> sink; the rest of that room was full of piles of things like
>> newspapers, stacked several feet high.  Some other rooms were similarly
>> full, with little actual living space.  I don't want to end up like
>> that guy, especially as my house is somewhat larger, so the amount of
>> clutter it could hold would be enormous.  Every once in a while, I go
>> through, trying to get rid of junk.  Tiny drives definitely fit that
>> description for me, as did the tapes, floppies, etc.  I think even the
>> 200GB hard drive will be counted as clutter during this round of
>> cleanup.
>
> I was the same, until late last year. Since then I value space in my
> sheds more than I value the crap that "I might use some day". This
> year I have removed literally tons of crap by selling most of it and
> made about $15K into the bargain. My impending extended OS trip this
> year has been fully paid for just through doing this. The local post
> office loves me for the amount of business I've brought them too <G>.
>
>> I hadn't heard that flash had failures within any conceivable usage
>> level.  I'll have to look into that, as my main computer (the one I'm
>> on now) uses an SSD for the OS.  It has a 1TB drive, but drunken me
>> used fdisk, without even having written down the pre-edit numbers, much
>> less doing a backup first.  I've tried a couple of tools to recover it,
>> but without success.
>
>
> I can wholeheartedly recommend 'Wondershare Data Recovery'.
> A few months ago I had a mainboard develop a fault, it was constantly
> rebooting (for a day or two at a guess). I had a 4TB USB drive
> attached and it fucked the drive's TOC or something. I tried a few
> programmes but they couldn't find much data. Then I downloaded a
> cracked version of Wondershare Data Recovery and after 3 or 4 days, I
> had completely recovered almost 4TB of data... a 100% recovery. I was
> so grateful and impressed that I paid for a legit copy.
>
>


Thanks for the tip. I have used iCare Data recovery which works very 
well but it's always good to have another program to fall back on.

Sometimes one works better than another for whatever reason.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59254

On 03/21/2017 11:31 PM, Clocky wrote:
> On 22/03/2017 6:18 AM, Je�us wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 10:17:15 -0600, BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Even so, to me that's just clutter.  I'm pretty bad about keeping
>>> old junk, being a pack rat, but I'm trying to improve.  I once
>>> helped a friend whose church group was helping an old church
>>> member replace his water heater.  The old guy lived in a trailer,
>>> and the clutter in it was unbelievable.  From the front door,
>>> there was a path to the kitchen sink; the rest of that room was
>>> full of piles of things like newspapers, stacked several feet
>>> high.  Some other rooms were similarly full, with little actual
>>> living space.  I don't want to end up like that guy, especially
>>> as my house is somewhat larger, so the amount of clutter it could
>>> hold would be enormous.  Every once in a while, I go through,
>>> trying to get rid of junk.  Tiny drives definitely fit that
>>> description for me, as did the tapes, floppies, etc.  I think
>>> even the 200GB hard drive will be counted as clutter during this
>>> round of cleanup.
>>
>> I was the same, until late last year. Since then I value space in
>> my sheds more than I value the crap that "I might use some day".
>> This year I have removed literally tons of crap by selling most of
>> it and made about $15K into the bargain. My impending extended OS
>> trip this year has been fully paid for just through doing this. The
>> local post office loves me for the amount of business I've brought
>> them too <G>.
>>
>>> I hadn't heard that flash had failures within any conceivable
>>> usage level.  I'll have to look into that, as my main computer
>>> (the one I'm on now) uses an SSD for the OS.  It has a 1TB drive,
>>> but drunken me used fdisk, without even having written down the
>>> pre-edit numbers, much less doing a backup first.  I've tried a
>>> couple of tools to recover it, but without success.
>>
>>
>> I can wholeheartedly recommend 'Wondershare Data Recovery'. A few
>> months ago I had a mainboard develop a fault, it was constantly
>> rebooting (for a day or two at a guess). I had a 4TB USB drive
>> attached and it fucked the drive's TOC or something. I tried a few
>> programmes but they couldn't find much data. Then I downloaded a
>> cracked version of Wondershare Data Recovery and after 3 or 4 days,
>> I had completely recovered almost 4TB of data... a 100% recovery. I
>> was so grateful and impressed that I paid for a legit copy.
>>
>>
>
>
> Thanks for the tip. I have used iCare Data recovery which works very
>  well but it's always good to have another program to fall back on.
>
> Sometimes one works better than another for whatever reason.

I thank you as well.  At first it looked like that wasn't for partition
recovery, but I found a part of the description that includes just that.
  Now the trick is how to use it.  I have a Windows PC, but it's a
laptop, so that makes getting to the HD awkward at best.  My desktop
doesn't have Windows at all.  That was how this all started.  The PC
came with Win7 on the 1TB drive.  I decided to make it dual-boot with
Linux, resizing the FAT partition Windows sat on to make room for
Fedora, which worked great until I tried booting Windows.  It saw that
it no longer had the 1TB, and didn't want to recognize that it was a
legit copy of Windows.  I even got a replacement install disc from the
vendor after a lot of hassle and argument, but that also needed the full
drive to recognize it as legit.  I decided I didn't need Windows, and
after a while decided to remove the partition it was on.  Unfortunately,
I also deleted the Extended partition that contained the Linux
partitions.  Oops.  If I had simply written down the numbers for the
starting cylinders, etc. on the partition table before starting, I could
recover it in a couple minutes, but haste and whiskey led me to skip
that step.  Many a cup twixt lip and slip, or something like that.

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#59255

On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:31:49 +0800, Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> wrote:

>On 22/03/2017 6:18 AM, Je?us wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 10:17:15 -0600, BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Even so, to me that's just clutter.  I'm pretty bad about keeping old
>>> junk, being a pack rat, but I'm trying to improve.  I once helped a
>>> friend whose church group was helping an old church member replace his
>>> water heater.  The old guy lived in a trailer, and the clutter in it
>>> was unbelievable.  From the front door, there was a path to the kitchen
>>> sink; the rest of that room was full of piles of things like
>>> newspapers, stacked several feet high.  Some other rooms were similarly
>>> full, with little actual living space.  I don't want to end up like
>>> that guy, especially as my house is somewhat larger, so the amount of
>>> clutter it could hold would be enormous.  Every once in a while, I go
>>> through, trying to get rid of junk.  Tiny drives definitely fit that
>>> description for me, as did the tapes, floppies, etc.  I think even the
>>> 200GB hard drive will be counted as clutter during this round of
>>> cleanup.
>>
>> I was the same, until late last year. Since then I value space in my
>> sheds more than I value the crap that "I might use some day". This
>> year I have removed literally tons of crap by selling most of it and
>> made about $15K into the bargain. My impending extended OS trip this
>> year has been fully paid for just through doing this. The local post
>> office loves me for the amount of business I've brought them too <G>.
>>
>>> I hadn't heard that flash had failures within any conceivable usage
>>> level.  I'll have to look into that, as my main computer (the one I'm
>>> on now) uses an SSD for the OS.  It has a 1TB drive, but drunken me
>>> used fdisk, without even having written down the pre-edit numbers, much
>>> less doing a backup first.  I've tried a couple of tools to recover it,
>>> but without success.
>>
>>
>> I can wholeheartedly recommend 'Wondershare Data Recovery'.
>> A few months ago I had a mainboard develop a fault, it was constantly
>> rebooting (for a day or two at a guess). I had a 4TB USB drive
>> attached and it fucked the drive's TOC or something. I tried a few
>> programmes but they couldn't find much data. Then I downloaded a
>> cracked version of Wondershare Data Recovery and after 3 or 4 days, I
>> had completely recovered almost 4TB of data... a 100% recovery. I was
>> so grateful and impressed that I paid for a legit copy.
>>
>>
>
>
>Thanks for the tip. I have used iCare Data recovery which works very 
>well but it's always good to have another program to fall back on.
>
>Sometimes one works better than another for whatever reason.


That is true. I tried a few different programme but they all gave
varying results (but only found a tiny percentage of the data).
Wondershare was the only one to find 100% of the data and then recover
it.

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#59251

On 3/22/2017 2:17 AM, BruceS wrote:
> On 03/21/2017 12:10 AM, Clocky wrote:
>> On 21/03/2017 12:24 PM, felix wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 21 Mar 2017 9:47 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 21/03/2017 4:18 AM, BruceS wrote:
>>>>> On 03/19/2017 09:03 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 20/03/2017 10:42 AM, felix wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>>> not really, just put a card in to give you ide ports, or use an
>>>>>>> IDE to
>>>>>>> SATA adapter. or you could use a docking station
>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/kwhx75u
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I do have an adapter, so I can plug in one EIDE drive at a time, and
>>>>> transfer whatever seems to be of value to the newer machine's
>>>>> drive, or
>>>>> to a separate backup.  That's probably what I'll do, though I also
>>>>> have
>>>>> a crossover cable, so with the right setup I could transfer between
>>>>> the
>>>>> machines.  I don't think any of this is worth the cost and trouble of
>>>>> getting a new controller card.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a few USB external drives here and simply plug in the drive to
>>>> whatever interface matches. Not an elegant solution, but it works.
>>>
>>> I have three external boxes USB permanently connected, two SATA and one
>>> IDE. very handy. just pop whatever drive you want to use in
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>>>>>>>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> still works!
>>>>>
>>>>> How is it worth running tiny hard drives when you can put it all on a
>>>>> flash drive for little cost, no moving parts, and easy connection to
>>>>> any modern machine?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think he means he's running them but that they still work.
>>>
>>> yes
>
> Even so, to me that's just clutter.  I'm pretty bad about keeping old
> junk, being a pack rat, but I'm trying to improve.  I once helped a
> friend whose church group was helping an old church member replace his
> water heater.  The old guy lived in a trailer, and the clutter in it
> was unbelievable.  From the front door, there was a path to the kitchen
> sink; the rest of that room was full of piles of things like
> newspapers, stacked several feet high.  Some other rooms were similarly
> full, with little actual living space.  I don't want to end up like
> that guy, especially as my house is somewhat larger, so the amount of
> clutter it could hold would be enormous.  Every once in a while, I go
> through, trying to get rid of junk.  Tiny drives definitely fit that
> description for me, as did the tapes, floppies, etc.  I think even the
> 200GB hard drive will be counted as clutter during this round of
> cleanup.
>
>>>> I have a collection of drives that are sometimes used to
>>>> resurrect/test or repair vintage stuff but they don't see regular use
>>>> nor do they have anything that's important on them (or it's been
>>>> backed up elsewhere).
>>>>
>>>> Flash drives fail too btw as flash memory has limited write/erase
>>>> cycles (albeit it 10's of thousands+). Whilst that might not affect
>>>> drives used for backups (but can if you run some operating systems
>>>> from one)
>>>>
>>>> Having said that, I've had only one fail that was used for data
>>>> transfer.
>
> I hadn't heard that flash had failures within any conceivable usage
> level.  I'll have to look into that, as my main computer (the one I'm
> on now) uses an SSD for the OS.  It has a 1TB drive, but drunken me
> used fdisk, without even having written down the pre-edit numbers, much
> less doing a backup first.  I've tried a couple of tools to recover it,
> but without success.  I can't even recall just what's on it that I care
> about, though I think there are a bunch of pictures.  The pack rat side
> of me hates the idea of repartitioning it and losing all that.  So I
> keep using the SSD instead.
>
>>>>>> I have two or three 40mb drives that still work. One MFM/RLL drive
>>>>>> in a
>>>>>> portable that still works too but each time I fire it up I'm
>>>>>> afraid it
>>>>>> will be it's last. Those old things don't fill you with much
>>>>>> confidence
>>>>>> as they chug away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The dodgiest drive still in regular use is in an old Compaq Armada
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> I use with my EPROMmer and for diagnostics on older vehicles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's drive developed bad sectors 10+ years ago and I simply
>>>>>> partitioned
>>>>>> them out as a temporary measure and it's remained that way since.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's another point against the old, small-capacity drives.  I was a
>>>>> bit relieved that all my old drives even run.  Once I get the good
>>>>> data
>>>>> off them, I'll probably clear them and either give or throw them away.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This particular one sees regular use and should be backed up... one
>>>> day.
>>>>
>>>> The laptop has a primitive USB port so the entire contents of the HDD
>>>> could be put on a 2GB USB stick even so there is no excuse.
>
> Given my own record for doing backups, I'm not one to criticize, but I
> strongly suggest you do that backup before the failure, rather than
> after.
>
>>>>>>>> while I have a 256GB thumb drive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also still have a few 3.5" floppies ("stiffies")
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> none of that dirty talk here, thank you! lol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> , which I could read
>>>>>>>> on the old machine, and then transfer to the new if there's any
>>>>>>>> value
>>>>>>>> to it.  That's a big "if".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still have a 3.5 floppy drive in the current machine. even have a
>>>>>>> 5.25" drive in one PC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a separate machine for that which also has a 3.5" and 5.25"
>>>>>> floppy. I've used it to recover and write floppies for other 8 bit
>>>>>> computers (like a TRS-80 model 1 for instance).
>>>>>
>>>>> You wouldn't happen to have a paper tape reader as well, would you?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No I don't and I don't know anyone who has one.
>>>> Do you have some paper tapes and what were they from?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think it was humour considering all the old stuff you (we) have
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, I was wondering, but I was asked in all seriousness once.
>
> Yes, that was just humor.  We had one for an old mainframe I worked on,
> along with the card readers.  That machine also had hard drives the
> size of washing machines.  I think they held something like 5MB each.
> We used those big reel-to-reel tape drives for backup, and stored the
> tapes in a highly secure vault, with fire protection, etc.  At one
> point I realized how long it had been since they'd changed the
> combination on the vault, and that most of the people who'd known it
> were no longer employees.

The first program that I ever wrote had to be punched up on paper tape 
on an ASR-33 teletype. Then the paper tape with the compiler had to be 
loaded on to the computer followed by the source code tape from the 
previous step. The computer then punched a tape with the compiled 
program. Then the run time tape was loaded, followed by the compiled 
tape. Then the program would run.

Editing a paper tape was a bastard of a job, using punch card seemed a 
real step forward.

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#59252

On 22/03/2017 8:28 PM, keithr0 wrote:
> The first program that I ever wrote had to be punched up on paper tape
> on an ASR-33 teletype. Then the paper tape with the compiler had to be
> loaded on to the computer followed by the source code tape from the
> previous step. The computer then punched a tape with the compiled
> program. Then the run time tape was loaded, followed by the compiled
> tape. Then the program would run.

Geez I thought it was bad enough punching paper tapes for program code, 
at least the OS/compiler was on mag tape.


> Editing a paper tape was a bastard of a job, using punch card seemed a
> real step forward.

I started out hand punching cards and that was a real bastard. Teletype 
was a step forward for me.

Trevor.

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#59253

On 3/22/2017 8:29 PM, Trevor wrote:
> On 22/03/2017 8:28 PM, keithr0 wrote:
>> The first program that I ever wrote had to be punched up on paper tape
>> on an ASR-33 teletype. Then the paper tape with the compiler had to be
>> loaded on to the computer followed by the source code tape from the
>> previous step. The computer then punched a tape with the compiled
>> program. Then the run time tape was loaded, followed by the compiled
>> tape. Then the program would run.
>
> Geez I thought it was bad enough punching paper tapes for program code,
> at least the OS/compiler was on mag tape.
>
>
>> Editing a paper tape was a bastard of a job, using punch card seemed a
>> real step forward.
>
> I started out hand punching cards and that was a real bastard. Teletype
> was a step forward for me.
>
> Trevor.
>
>
I've never hand punched cards, punching a program on a deck of cards at 
least meant that to change a statement just meant pulling a card and 
replacing it rather than juggling tapes.

The CDC 405 card reader was an interesting piece of kit, the cards were 
fed horizontally. To reduce friction the card trays vibrated, for some 
reason, on night shift, it wasn't unusual to find a female operator 
sitting on the card tray.

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