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WikiLeaks

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  WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-08 18:52 +1100
    Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-08 20:46 +1100
      Re: WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-08 21:53 +1100
        Re: WikiLeaks SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2017-03-09 20:46 +1100
          Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 05:28 +1100
            Re: WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 06:19 +1100
              Re: WikiLeaks SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2017-03-11 23:43 +1100
                Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-12 04:41 +1100
                  Re: WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-12 10:26 +1100
                    Re: WikiLeaks SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2017-03-13 14:56 +1100
                      Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 05:00 +1100
          Re: WikiLeaks Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-10 08:12 +1100
            Re: WikiLeaks SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2017-03-11 23:39 +1100
              Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-12 04:38 +1100
                Re: WikiLeaks SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2017-03-13 16:01 +1100
                  Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 05:06 +1100
                    Re: WikiLeaks SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2017-03-14 20:47 +1100
                      Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 04:02 +1100
                      Re: WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 07:05 +1100
              Re: WikiLeaks Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-12 08:26 +1100
                Re: WikiLeaks SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2017-03-13 16:01 +1100
                  Re: WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-13 16:54 +1100
                    Re: WikiLeaks SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2017-03-14 20:12 +1100
                  Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 05:07 +1100
                  Re: WikiLeaks Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-14 08:47 +1100
      Re: WikiLeaks "Damian" <damian_n@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-10 01:41 +1100
        Re: WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 04:21 +1100
        Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 05:30 +1100
        Re: WikiLeaks Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-10 08:14 +1100
          Re: WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 08:30 +1100
            Re: WikiLeaks Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-10 08:59 +1100
          Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 13:41 +1100
            Re: WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 14:53 +1100
              Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 20:17 +1100
            Re: WikiLeaks Allan Barker <allanbarker75@optusnet.com.au> - 2017-03-10 15:32 +1000
              Re: WikiLeaks Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-10 17:21 +1100
                Re: WikiLeaks Allan Barker <allanbarker75@optusnet.com.au> - 2017-03-10 17:35 +1000
                  Re: WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 19:52 +1100
                    Re: WikiLeaks Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-11 08:13 +1100
                  Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 20:25 +1100
                    Re: WikiLeaks Allan Barker <allanbarker75@optusnet.com.au> - 2017-03-12 22:20 +1000
                  Re: WikiLeaks Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-11 08:09 +1100
                Re: WikiLeaks F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-10 19:55 +1100
                  Re: WikiLeaks Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-11 08:19 +1100
                Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 20:22 +1100
              Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 20:20 +1100
                Re: WikiLeaks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-03-11 07:00 +0000
      Re: WikiLeaks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-03-11 06:32 +0000
        Re: WikiLeaks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-11 19:46 +1100
    Re: WikiLeaks not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-03-11 06:56 +0000
      Re: WikiLeaks Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-03-11 21:55 +1100

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

#59128 — WikiLeaks

https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/
Analysis
 

CIA malware targets iPhone, Android, smart TVs
CIA malware and hacking tools are built by EDG (Engineering
Development Group), a software development group within CCI (Center
for Cyber Intelligence), a department belonging to the CIA's DDI
(Directorate for Digital Innovation). The DDI is one of the five major
directorates of the CIA (see this organizational chart of the CIA for
more details).

The EDG is responsible for the development, testing and operational
support of all backdoors, exploits, malicious payloads, trojans,
viruses and any other kind of malware used by the CIA in its covert
operations world-wide.

The increasing sophistication of surveillance techniques has drawn
comparisons with George Orwell's 1984, but "Weeping Angel", developed
by the CIA's Embedded Devices Branch (EDB), which infests smart TVs,
transforming them into covert microphones, is surely its most
emblematic realization.

The attack against Samsung smart TVs was developed in cooperation with
the United Kingdom's MI5/BTSS. After infestation, Weeping Angel places
the target TV in a 'Fake-Off' mode, so that the owner falsely believes
the TV is off when it is on. In 'Fake-Off' mode the TV operates as a
bug, recording conversations in the room and sending them over the
Internet to a covert CIA server.
-- 
Petzl
Arguing with a woman is like reading the Software License Agreement.
In the end, you ignore everthing and click "I agree"

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#59129

"Petzl" <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:0vdvbchcmhbc61l35hrfm0l8b2icpuagrg@4ax.com...
> https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/
> Analysis
>
>
> CIA malware targets iPhone, Android, smart TVs
> CIA malware and hacking tools are built by EDG (Engineering
> Development Group), a software development group within CCI (Center
> for Cyber Intelligence), a department belonging to the CIA's DDI
> (Directorate for Digital Innovation). The DDI is one of the five major
> directorates of the CIA (see this organizational chart of the CIA for
> more details).
>
> The EDG is responsible for the development, testing and operational
> support of all backdoors, exploits, malicious payloads, trojans,
> viruses and any other kind of malware used by the CIA in its covert
> operations world-wide.
>
> The increasing sophistication of surveillance techniques has drawn
> comparisons with George Orwell's 1984, but "Weeping Angel", developed
> by the CIA's Embedded Devices Branch (EDB), which infests smart TVs,
> transforming them into covert microphones, is surely its most
> emblematic realization.
>
> The attack against Samsung smart TVs was developed in cooperation with
> the United Kingdom's MI5/BTSS. After infestation, Weeping Angel places
> the target TV in a 'Fake-Off' mode, so that the owner falsely believes
> the TV is off when it is on. In 'Fake-Off' mode the TV operates as a
> bug, recording conversations in the room and sending them over the
> Internet to a covert CIA server.

Don't believe it's a major problem with the iphone because of the
sandboxing and even if the CIA could see everything I do, the goon
who gets to snoop on me would die of boredom anyway given that
everything I do that is at all controversial is done publicly anyway. 

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#59130

On Wed, 8 Mar 2017 20:46:42 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>"Petzl" <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:0vdvbchcmhbc61l35hrfm0l8b2icpuagrg@4ax.com...
>> https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/
>> Analysis
>>
>>
>> CIA malware targets iPhone, Android, smart TVs
>> CIA malware and hacking tools are built by EDG (Engineering
>> Development Group), a software development group within CCI (Center
>> for Cyber Intelligence), a department belonging to the CIA's DDI
>> (Directorate for Digital Innovation). The DDI is one of the five major
>> directorates of the CIA (see this organizational chart of the CIA for
>> more details).
>>
>> The EDG is responsible for the development, testing and operational
>> support of all backdoors, exploits, malicious payloads, trojans,
>> viruses and any other kind of malware used by the CIA in its covert
>> operations world-wide.
>>
>> The increasing sophistication of surveillance techniques has drawn
>> comparisons with George Orwell's 1984, but "Weeping Angel", developed
>> by the CIA's Embedded Devices Branch (EDB), which infests smart TVs,
>> transforming them into covert microphones, is surely its most
>> emblematic realization.
>>
>> The attack against Samsung smart TVs was developed in cooperation with
>> the United Kingdom's MI5/BTSS. After infestation, Weeping Angel places
>> the target TV in a 'Fake-Off' mode, so that the owner falsely believes
>> the TV is off when it is on. In 'Fake-Off' mode the TV operates as a
>> bug, recording conversations in the room and sending them over the
>> Internet to a covert CIA server.
>
>Don't believe it's a major problem with the iphone because of the
>sandboxing and even if the CIA could see everything I do, the goon
>who gets to snoop on me would die of boredom anyway given that
>everything I do that is at all controversial is done publicly anyway. 

Can't see them getting exited over my activities either.
Big problem is I keep me secure but people I contact don't and end up
with spammers who know my name address etc.

VPN IP's are often blocked because some clown has a compromised
(Trojan/Zombie) computer. 

VPN's do not keep logs so they can never be contacted via abuse
address's. 
Many web sites just block offending IP's because of DoS attacks  

The CIA writes these programs and cybercrims copy them.
-- 
Petzl
Arguing with a woman is like reading the Software License Agreement.
In the end, you ignore everthing and click "I agree"

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#59133

On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:53:51 +1100, Petzl wrote:

> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never be contacted via abuse
> address's.

all VPNs keep logs

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#59137

SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote 
> Petzl wrote
 
>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never 
>> be contacted via abuse address's.
 
> all VPNs keep logs

You have no way of knowing if they do or not. 

And if what logs they keep allow them to see 
what you did in a particular session either.  

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#59139

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 05:28:46 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote 
>> Petzl wrote
> 
>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never 
>>> be contacted via abuse address's.
> 
>> all VPNs keep logs
>
>You have no way of knowing if they do or not. 
>
>And if what logs they keep allow them to see 
>what you did in a particular session either.  

A FBI case against my VPN proves they don't log.
https://torrentfreak.com/vpn-providers-no-logging-claims-tested-in-fbi-case-160312/
-- 
Petzl
Arguing with a woman is like reading the Software License Agreement.
In the end, you ignore everthing and click "I agree"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59171

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 06:19:57 +1100, Petzl wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 05:28:46 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote 
>>> Petzl wrote
>> 
>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never 
>>>> be contacted via abuse address's.
>> 
>>> all VPNs keep logs
>>
>>You have no way of knowing if they do or not. 
>>
>>And if what logs they keep allow them to see 
>>what you did in a particular session either.  
> 
> A FBI case against my VPN proves they don't log.
> https://torrentfreak.com/vpn-providers-no-logging-claims-tested-in-fbi-case-160312/

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/terms-of-service/

How can they enforce this agreement without logs?

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#59173

"SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message 
news:101o3v96caqhu.6lmejmvt5o65$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 06:19:57 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 05:28:46 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote
>>>> Petzl wrote
>>>
>>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never
>>>>> be contacted via abuse address's.
>>>
>>>> all VPNs keep logs
>>>
>>>You have no way of knowing if they do or not.
>>>
>>>And if what logs they keep allow them to see
>>>what you did in a particular session either.
>>
>> A FBI case against my VPN proves they don't log.
>> https://torrentfreak.com/vpn-providers-no-logging-claims-tested-in-fbi-case-160312/
>
> https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/terms-of-service/
>
> How can they enforce this agreement without logs?

They don't bother to enforce, just have those rules
so that if you breach them you can be tossed out. 

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#59177

On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 04:41:01 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>"SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message 
>news:101o3v96caqhu.6lmejmvt5o65$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 06:19:57 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 05:28:46 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote
>>>>> Petzl wrote
>>>>
>>>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never
>>>>>> be contacted via abuse address's.
>>>>
>>>>> all VPNs keep logs
>>>>
>>>>You have no way of knowing if they do or not.
>>>>
>>>>And if what logs they keep allow them to see
>>>>what you did in a particular session either.
>>>
>>> A FBI case against my VPN proves they don't log.
>>> https://torrentfreak.com/vpn-providers-no-logging-claims-tested-in-fbi-case-160312/
>>
>> https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/terms-of-service/
>>
>> How can they enforce this agreement without logs?
>
>They don't bother to enforce, just have those rules
>so that if you breach them you can be tossed out. 

Don't know what SolomonW is refering to probably hasn't read it?
Payment is all they require once that stops you can't log in.
Most is just advice
There are other VPN providers cheaper possibly better
So easy to move.
http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/review-purevpn.htm
-- 
Petzl
Arguing with a woman is like reading the Software License Agreement.
In the end, you ignore everthing and click "I agree"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59180

On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 10:26:17 +1100, Petzl wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 04:41:01 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>>"SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message 
>>news:101o3v96caqhu.6lmejmvt5o65$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 06:19:57 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 05:28:46 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote
>>>>>> Petzl wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never
>>>>>>> be contacted via abuse address's.
>>>>>
>>>>>> all VPNs keep logs
>>>>>
>>>>>You have no way of knowing if they do or not.
>>>>>
>>>>>And if what logs they keep allow them to see
>>>>>what you did in a particular session either.
>>>>
>>>> A FBI case against my VPN proves they don't log.
>>>> https://torrentfreak.com/vpn-providers-no-logging-claims-tested-in-fbi-case-160312/
>>>
>>> https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/terms-of-service/
>>>
>>> How can they enforce this agreement without logs?
>>
>>They don't bother to enforce, just have those rules
>>so that if you breach them you can be tossed out. 
> 
> Don't know what SolomonW is refering to probably hasn't read it?
> Payment is all they require once that stops you can't log in.
> Most is just advice
> There are other VPN providers cheaper possibly better
> So easy to move.
> http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/review-purevpn.htm

Read the page I quoted such as the section on Conduct and the section on
Breach

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#59185

"SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message 
news:1nc5c8f31mjo6$.1hs1ul509wnfe.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 10:26:17 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 04:41:01 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message
>>>news:101o3v96caqhu.6lmejmvt5o65$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 06:19:57 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 05:28:46 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Petzl wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never
>>>>>>>> be contacted via abuse address's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> all VPNs keep logs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You have no way of knowing if they do or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And if what logs they keep allow them to see
>>>>>>what you did in a particular session either.
>>>>>
>>>>> A FBI case against my VPN proves they don't log.
>>>>> https://torrentfreak.com/vpn-providers-no-logging-claims-tested-in-fbi-case-160312/
>>>>
>>>> https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/terms-of-service/
>>>>
>>>> How can they enforce this agreement without logs?
>>>
>>>They don't bother to enforce, just have those rules
>>>so that if you breach them you can be tossed out.
>>
>> Don't know what SolomonW is refering to probably hasn't read it?
>> Payment is all they require once that stops you can't log in.
>> Most is just advice
>> There are other VPN providers cheaper possibly better
>> So easy to move.
>> http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/review-purevpn.htm
>
> Read the page I quoted such as the section on Conduct and the section on
> Breach

Doesn't mean that they LOG what you do to detect breaches. They
can just check for that activity in real time and then flag that as a
breach and pull the plug on your service without any logs at all. 

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#59140

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:46:42 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:53:51 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>
>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never be contacted via abuse
>> address's.
>
>all VPNs keep logs

Not true.

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#59170

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:12:52 +1100, Jeßus wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:46:42 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:
> 
>>On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:53:51 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>>
>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never be contacted via abuse
>>> address's.
>>
>>all VPNs keep logs
> 
> Not true.

They have as they need it for troubleshooting technical issues plus monitor
their plans. The point is do they keep it or delete it?

The worry is that you have no way of verifing whether they do or don't so a
safe assumption is that your VPN does log.

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#59172

"SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message 
news:vj5m1m36nx1q$.ncxuep7j4mn1.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:12:52 +1100, Jeßus wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:46:42 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:53:51 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>>>
>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never be contacted via abuse
>>>> address's.
>>>
>>>all VPNs keep logs
>>
>> Not true.

> They have as they need it for troubleshooting technical issues

Nope, just accept that they cant troubleshoot technical issues.

> plus monitor their plans.

All they have to do for that is keep a running total of use. That
is completely useless for snooping on what you have used it for.

> The point is do they keep it or delete it?

You don't know that there is anything to keep or delete.

> The worry is that you have no way of verifing whether they do or don't

Yes.

> so a safe assumption is that your VPN does log.

An assumption isnt a fact. 

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#59181

On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 04:38:53 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

> "SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message 
> news:vj5m1m36nx1q$.ncxuep7j4mn1.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:12:52 +1100, Jeßus wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:46:42 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:53:51 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never be contacted via abuse
>>>>> address's.
>>>>
>>>>all VPNs keep logs
>>>
>>> Not true.
> 
>> They have as they need it for troubleshooting technical issues
> 
> Nope, just accept that they cant troubleshoot technical issues.

Of course they can do such trouble shooting.


> 
>> plus monitor their plans.
> 
> All they have to do for that is keep a running total of use. That
> is completely useless for snooping on what you have used it for.

So we agree they are keeping some logs. They would need to have usuage by
time, dates, amount etc just in case a person queries it.

> 
>> The point is do they keep it or delete it?
> 
> You don't know that there is anything to keep or delete.

Well we have already agreed that they keep some we are just debating what.



> 
>> The worry is that you have no way of verifing whether they do or don't
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> so a safe assumption is that your VPN does log.
> 
> An assumption isnt a fact.

But its safe.

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#59186

"SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message 
news:c3hg4sj6jwdl$.1dpny9i2ie5ec$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 04:38:53 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> "SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message
>> news:vj5m1m36nx1q$.ncxuep7j4mn1.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:12:52 +1100, Jeßus wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:46:42 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:53:51 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never be contacted via abuse
>>>>>> address's.
>>>>>
>>>>>all VPNs keep logs
>>>>
>>>> Not true.
>>
>>> They have as they need it for troubleshooting technical issues
>>
>> Nope, just accept that they cant troubleshoot technical issues.
>
> Of course they can do such trouble shooting.

But can also choose not to do that so there are no logs,
particularly when they say there are no logs and anyone
can test that claim by claiming they have had a problem and
see that they don't have any logs to check that claim against.

>>> plus monitor their plans.
>>
>> All they have to do for that is keep a running total of use. That
>> is completely useless for snooping on what you have used it for.

> So we agree they are keeping some logs.

A running total of what you have moved thru their
system data wise isnt a log that is of any use to
any authority who demands to see their logs.

> They would need to have usuage by time, dates, amount etc

Nope, just keep a running total of the
data you have moved thru their system.

> just in case a person queries it.

If someone queries it they say that they don't have
logs so can't check the claim.

>>> The point is do they keep it or delete it?

>> You don't know that there is anything to keep or delete.

> Well we have already agreed that they keep some

Nope, a running total isnt a log.

> we are just debating what.

A running total isnt a log that can be used by anyone to
show you have done anything illegal or even just undesirable.

>>> The worry is that you have no way of verifing whether they do or don't
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> so a safe assumption is that your VPN does log.
>>
>> An assumption isnt a fact.
>
> But its safe.

Not when they say they don't log. 

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#59192

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 05:06:52 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

> "SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message 
> news:c3hg4sj6jwdl$.1dpny9i2ie5ec$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 04:38:53 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> "SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message
>>> news:vj5m1m36nx1q$.ncxuep7j4mn1.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:12:52 +1100, Jeßus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:46:42 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:53:51 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never be contacted via abuse
>>>>>>> address's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>all VPNs keep logs
>>>>>
>>>>> Not true.
>>>
>>>> They have as they need it for troubleshooting technical issues
>>>
>>> Nope, just accept that they cant troubleshoot technical issues.
>>
>> Of course they can do such trouble shooting.
> 
> But can also choose not to do that so there are no logs,
> particularly when they say there are no logs and anyone
> can test that claim by claiming they have had a problem and
> see that they don't have any logs to check that claim against.
> 
>>>> plus monitor their plans.
>>>
>>> All they have to do for that is keep a running total of use. That
>>> is completely useless for snooping on what you have used it for.
> 
>> So we agree they are keeping some logs.
> 
> A running total of what you have moved thru their
> system data wise isnt a log that is of any use to
> any authority who demands to see their logs.
> 
>> They would need to have usuage by time, dates, amount etc
> 
> Nope, just keep a running total of the
> data you have moved thru their system.
> 
>> just in case a person queries it.
> 
> If someone queries it they say that they don't have
> logs so can't check the claim.
> 
>>>> The point is do they keep it or delete it?
> 
>>> You don't know that there is anything to keep or delete.
> 
>> Well we have already agreed that they keep some
> 
> Nope, a running total isnt a log.
> 
>> we are just debating what.
> 
> A running total isnt a log that can be used by anyone to
> show you have done anything illegal or even just undesirable.
> 
>>>> The worry is that you have no way of verifing whether they do or don't
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> so a safe assumption is that your VPN does log.
>>>
>>> An assumption isnt a fact.
>>
>> But its safe.
> 
> Not when they say they don't log.

You might learn something here.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2493001

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#59193

"SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message 
news:1npli7ft2ikyk$.63niw51pqzrj$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 05:06:52 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> "SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message
>> news:c3hg4sj6jwdl$.1dpny9i2ie5ec$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 04:38:53 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> "SolomonW" <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:vj5m1m36nx1q$.ncxuep7j4mn1.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:12:52 +1100, Jeßus wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:46:42 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:53:51 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never be contacted via abuse
>>>>>>>> address's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>all VPNs keep logs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not true.
>>>>
>>>>> They have as they need it for troubleshooting technical issues
>>>>
>>>> Nope, just accept that they cant troubleshoot technical issues.
>>>
>>> Of course they can do such trouble shooting.
>>
>> But can also choose not to do that so there are no logs,
>> particularly when they say there are no logs and anyone
>> can test that claim by claiming they have had a problem and
>> see that they don't have any logs to check that claim against.
>>
>>>>> plus monitor their plans.
>>>>
>>>> All they have to do for that is keep a running total of use. That
>>>> is completely useless for snooping on what you have used it for.
>>
>>> So we agree they are keeping some logs.
>>
>> A running total of what you have moved thru their
>> system data wise isnt a log that is of any use to
>> any authority who demands to see their logs.
>>
>>> They would need to have usuage by time, dates, amount etc
>>
>> Nope, just keep a running total of the
>> data you have moved thru their system.
>>
>>> just in case a person queries it.
>>
>> If someone queries it they say that they don't have
>> logs so can't check the claim.
>>
>>>>> The point is do they keep it or delete it?
>>
>>>> You don't know that there is anything to keep or delete.
>>
>>> Well we have already agreed that they keep some
>>
>> Nope, a running total isnt a log.
>>
>>> we are just debating what.
>>
>> A running total isnt a log that can be used by anyone to
>> show you have done anything illegal or even just undesirable.
>>
>>>>> The worry is that you have no way of verifing whether they do or don't
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>>> so a safe assumption is that your VPN does log.
>>>>
>>>> An assumption isnt a fact.
>>>
>>> But its safe.
>>
>> Not when they say they don't log.
>
> You might learn something here.
>
> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2493001

Nope, none of that is any news and it doesn't say that an operation
that keeps track of running totals is logging anything that can be
used by the authoritys to check on how you use the net in any
meaningful way. Doesn't allow anyone to see what you actually do. 

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#59194

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 20:47:35 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com>
wrote:

>>> But its safe.
>> 
>> Not when they say they don't log.
>
>You might learn something here.
>
>http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2493001

That is NOT about PIA?
-- 
Petzl
Arguing with a woman is like reading the Software License Agreement.
In the end, you ignore everthing and click "I agree"

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#59174

On Sat, 11 Mar 2017 23:39:01 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:12:52 +1100, Jeßus wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:46:42 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:53:51 +1100, Petzl wrote:
>>>
>>>> VPN's do not keep logs so they can never be contacted via abuse
>>>> address's.
>>>
>>>all VPNs keep logs
>> 
>> Not true.
>
>They have as they need it for troubleshooting technical issues plus monitor
>their plans. The point is do they keep it or delete it?
>
>The worry is that you have no way of verifing whether they do or don't so a
>safe assumption is that your VPN does log.

Actually, I can be fairly confident that my current VPN doesn't keep
logs:
https://www.deepdotweb.com/2016/03/18/criminal-complaint-reveals-private-internet-access-doesnt-log/

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