Re: Tv reception

From	Tony <nomail@nospam.com>
Newsgroups	aus.electronics, aus.computers
Subject	Re: Tv reception
Date	2017-02-08 08:24 +0800
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<o7dock$fsf$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <eo4mA.23709$8K.5710@fx46.am4> <efs442Fg7ciU1@mid.individual.net> <wH5mA.248894$dT1.27701@fx16.am4> <o7aul7$86n$1@dont-email.me> <RqpmA.247125$a22.222791@fx28.am4>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 08-Feb-17 3:42 AM, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
>
> "Tony" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:o7aul7$86n$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 07-Feb-17 5:15 AM, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
>>>
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:efs442Fg7ciU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote in
>>>> message news:eo4mA.23709$8K.5710@fx46.am4...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:efphvdFdimU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote in
>>>>>> message news:sfMlA.195747$yv3.192638@fx30.am4...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:5895e20f$0$55943$b1db1813$65575428@news.astraweb.com...
>>>>>>>> Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 23:49:55 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For months I have been having problems with tv reception TV not
>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>> on most channels for hours, I have been blaming 4g towers, fixed
>>>>>>>>>> wireless towers etc that have just been put up etc.
>>>>>>>>>> I have just found the cause by accident, almost unbelievable.
>>>>>>>>>> TV does not work if the kitchen light is on.
>>>>>>>>>> The culprit is one of these, a 12" or so multiple led ceiling
>>>>>>>>>> LED
>>>>>>>>>> similar to this,
>>>>>>>>>>   http://imgur.com/a/dj5ha
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My electric fence was interfering with my TV reception.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I had an electric fence that would be one of the first suspects
>>>>>>>> but who would think turning a light on would cause it,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its been a possible problem with CFLs for years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of the LED replacement bulbs use a wattless dropper instead of
>>>>>>> SMPSU circuitry. You might be able to adapt it, but don't forget to
>>>>>>> include a surge limiting resistor - the current is very high around
>>>>>>> the zero crossing portion of the AC waveform.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's mad, the current will be very low around the zero crossing of
>>>>>> the AC waveform.
>>>>>
>>>>> Three words - "rate of change".
>>>>
>>>> It has nothing to do with rate of change, the voltage by definition
>>>> is close to zero, so the current is in fact very low. Ohms law.
>>>
>>> Geez - and I thought I wasn't great at AC
>>> theory..........................
>>>
>>> A coupling capacitor (wattless dropper) blocks DC, the AC waveform is
>>> almost that at the peaks. The capacitor only passes a rate of change -
>>> that's at its greatest around the zero crossing points.
>>>
>>> Maybe you should lay off the booze (or whatever)........
>>
>> I have put such a circuit in a simulator, and except for the inrush
>> current I don't see anything like you said.
>> Try it yourself, like on: http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
>> Select 'File', 'import from text', and paste this text, a simple example:
>>
>> $ 1 0.000005 3.452441195350251 45 5 43
>> s 688 96 752 96 0 0 false
>> v 752 368 752 96 0 1 50 330 0 0 0.5
>> d 480 352 480 240 1 0.805904783
>> d 576 112 576 208 1 0.805904783
>> w 688 96 576 96 0
>> w 576 96 576 112 0
>> w 480 96 576 96 0
>> w 480 352 480 368 0
>> d 416 144 416 96 1 0.805904783
>> d 416 272 416 352 1 0.805904783
>> w 480 96 416 96 0
>> w 416 352 416 368 0
>> w 432 368 480 368 0
>> 370 688 368 752 368 1 0
>> 162 480 224 480 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
>> 162 512 224 512 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
>> 162 544 224 544 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
>> w 480 144 480 160 0
>> w 480 160 512 160 0
>> w 512 160 544 160 0
>> w 544 224 512 224 0
>> w 512 224 480 224 0
>> w 432 144 416 144 0
>> c 560 368 624 368 0 5e-7 -9.1361757825205
>> w 688 368 624 368 0
>> w 560 368 480 368 0
>> w 416 144 416 160 0
>> w 416 160 416 272 0
>> w 432 368 416 368 0
>> w 432 144 480 144 0
>> w 480 240 480 224 0
>> r 560 320 624 320 0 220000
>> w 560 320 560 368 0
>> w 624 320 624 368 0
>> w 576 208 576 224 0
>> w 480 240 576 240 0
>> w 576 240 576 224 0
>> o 1 64 0 2083 640 0.1 0 -1 0
>> o 30 64 0 2083 640 0.1 1 -1 0
>>
>> You have to reset the simulation and start again do get the current
>> range to normal after the inrush.
>> AFAIK The only important thing to remember is to use at least an X3
>> rated capacitor and a discharge resistor across the cap, so yo don't
>> get zapped when touching the open pins.
>
> If you have to reset it after the inrush - that's probably why you're
> not seeing the cycle by cycle current peaks around the point of maximum
> rate of change.

No, you have to reset it because the range of the current display has 
expanded so much, by the inrush, that you don't see the normal current 
curve. There is no such thing as a current peak once it is on. There is 
a switch on the top right of the schematics. You can click on it to 
switch on and off and see what the circuit does, as well.

I have built and used such circuits often.
Using an X rated capacitor or/and a small "sacrificial" resistor in 
series will make sure that it won't catch fire due to a short in the 
capacitor.

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Thread

Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-04 23:49 +1100
  Re: Tv reception Lucifer Morningstar <Barry@saymyname.com> - 2017-02-05 00:08 +1100
    Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-05 01:15 +1100
      Re: Tv reception "Max" <max@val.morgan> - 2017-02-05 07:34 +1100
        Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-05 13:45 +1100
      Re: Tv reception Lucifer Morningstar <Barry@saymyname.com> - 2017-02-05 08:50 +1100
        Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-05 20:54 +0000
      Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-05 20:51 +0000
        Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 07:58 +1100
          Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-06 19:46 +0000
            Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 07:20 +1100
              Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-06 21:15 +0000
                Re: Tv reception Tony <nomail@nospam.com> - 2017-02-07 06:53 +0800
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-07 19:42 +0000
                Re: Tv reception Tony <nomail@nospam.com> - 2017-02-08 08:24 +0800
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-08 19:18 +0000
                Re: Tv reception Tony <nomail@nospam.com> - 2017-02-09 06:12 +0800
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-09 21:51 +0000
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 11:41 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-10 19:49 +0000
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 07:58 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-10 21:19 +0000
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 12:52 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-11 18:52 +0000
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:28 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 09:18 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 09:17 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-11 18:53 +0000
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 10:23 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-07 19:44 +0000
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 13:51 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-08 19:20 +0000
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 06:43 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-08 21:37 +0000
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 08:53 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-08 22:05 +0000
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 10:55 +1100
        Re: Tv reception Tony <nomail@nospam.com> - 2017-02-06 11:26 +0800
    Re: Tv reception "Blue Peeler" <woof@barque.org> - 2017-02-04 21:45 +0000
      Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-05 20:56 +0000
        Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 10:06 +1100
          Re: Tv reception Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-02-06 02:36 +0000
            Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 22:59 +1100
            Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-06 19:50 +0000
  Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 06:11 +1100
    Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 12:57 +1100
      Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-05 13:49 +1100
        Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 14:24 +1100
  Re: Tv reception "Blue Peeler" <woof@barque.org> - 2017-02-04 21:44 +0000
  Re: Tv reception Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-02-05 08:48 +1100
  Re: Tv reception not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-02-04 22:21 +0000
    Re: Tv reception Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-02-05 09:44 +1100
      Re: Tv reception not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-02-05 00:00 +0000
        Re: Tv reception noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> - 2017-02-05 11:49 +1000
          Re: Tv reception Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2017-02-05 05:31 +0000
      Re: Tv reception noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> - 2017-02-05 11:48 +1000
        Re: Tv reception Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2017-02-05 05:25 +0000
    Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-05 13:51 +1100
      Re: Tv reception Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2017-02-05 05:34 +0000
      Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 17:10 +1100
        Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-05 18:25 +1100
          Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 19:09 +1100
            Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 19:58 +1100
              Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 23:12 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 03:52 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 12:18 +1100
            Re: Tv reception felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2017-02-06 00:04 +1100
              Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 07:54 +1100
  Re: Tv reception "Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> - 2017-02-05 20:43 +0000
    Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 10:03 +1100
      Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-07 17:36 +1100
        Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 17:56 +1100
          Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-07 18:38 +1100
            Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 19:37 +1100
            Re: Tv reception Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2017-02-08 00:07 +1100
        Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:54 +1100
          Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:55 +1100
            Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 22:42 +1100
              Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 09:21 +1100
                Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 12:58 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:42 +1100
                Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 16:45 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 17:26 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 17:22 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 17:37 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 03:26 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 09:54 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 12:57 +1100
                Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 16:16 +1100
                Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 16:24 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 17:39 +1100
                Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-13 01:59 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:22 +1100
                Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-13 13:31 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 14:58 +1100
                Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-13 15:29 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 17:30 +1100
                Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 20:33 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 21:25 +1100
                Re: Tv reception "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 05:44 +1100
                Re: Tv reception F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-15 12:26 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 16:26 +1100
                Re: Tv reception Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 13:04 +1100

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