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| From | Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.sys.pdp10 |
| Subject | MM vs. MS/MX [was Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20] |
| Date | 2026-01-07 18:28 -0500 |
| Organization | PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC |
| Message-ID | <mdd7bttuhn5.fsf_-_@panix5.panix.com> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <871pk6mxd0.fsf@atr2.ath.cx> <1f191d4b-5718-4b6a-a78d-04f282279bbb@gmail.com> <87qzs5fixb.fsf@atr2.ath.cx> <b110ef29-af86-4863-8b28-62d433179bc1@gmail.com> <87cy3mwrt4.fsf@atr2.ath.cx> |
jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> writes:
> David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> writes:
>> I used MS 40 years ago and have stuck with that now. Seems
>> like an old friend. I tried to start mm and get nothing.
> I thought MS/MX was the DECnet side and MM was the IP one?
MM (Mail Manager) originated on TENEX, and was pre-TCP/IP there. It was used
for local and network mail.
The late Mark Crispin took over maintenance from the original author (whose
name I probably misremember so I won't give one), ported it to TOPS-20, and
added many features while at Stanford's Computer Science Department computer
facility, including DECnet and TCP/IP functionality. He eventually added a
Phone-net functionality (which he called Cafard, French for "bug"), but that
was long after I did the same thing for the University of Chicago.[1]
At some point in that history, some DEC software folks took a copy (which both
the TENEX developer and MRC were happy to give out if you sent a tape), filed
off some serial numbers (so to speak), and dubbed it "MS" (Mail Service), then
added extensions and renamed it "MX".
[1] This is how I met my friend Mark. UChicago was running a very old version
of MM (edit level in the late 2xx/early 3xx) for local mail, and joined an
Educom initiative called Edunet which was setting up phone-net service
using MMDF and RFCs 521 and 522. As the junior systems programmer at
Chicago, I was handed the task of making this work with MM; after looking
at the rudimentary networking code in the version we had, I got in touch
with MRC, sent him a tape, and received a late 5xx version with lots and
lots of goodies in it. After implementing the MMDF code to mimic the
TCP/IP stack down to the Ethernet level, I traded test messages with MRC
for a couple of months, including a fateful "If you hear of any systems
programming jobs opening up at Stanford, let me know" that got an immediate
response with the phone number for LOTS.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
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Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> - 2025-12-29 18:31 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2025-12-30 12:54 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-12-30 20:43 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2025-12-31 12:50 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-01 09:59 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-01 11:08 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-01 11:27 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-02 13:04 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-02 17:36 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-03 05:37 +0000
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 07:09 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 08:40 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-03 11:33 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 06:59 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 09:07 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 09:20 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2026-01-04 16:26 +0100
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 10:57 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-05 06:38 +0000
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-02 07:46 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-02 12:54 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-02 17:05 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-01-02 20:32 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-02 22:21 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-02 17:47 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-03 12:15 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 16:57 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 17:00 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-04 11:21 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-05 17:52 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-05 18:13 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-06 12:53 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 18:12 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <HDTodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 18:15 -0500
MM vs. MS/MX [was Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-01-07 18:28 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 17:07 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-04 11:28 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 13:52 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 18:12 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-04 00:00 +0000
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 08:48 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-04 16:00 +0000
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 14:02 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-04 11:56 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 14:21 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-01-04 16:16 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 16:58 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 14:28 -0500
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-05 15:33 +0000
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-01-05 15:45 -0800
Re: Try again: IP between Pi <--> klh10 TOPS-20 David Todd <hdtodd@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 08:59 -0500
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