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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #147505 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-06-27 14:10 -0700 |
| Last post | 2015-06-28 18:39 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 204 — 31 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-06-27 14:10 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 08:08 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-06-28 15:38 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 07:01 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-07-01 20:45 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 08:08 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-07-02 00:01 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 10:39 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-07-01 16:41 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 10:42 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-07-03 12:55 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-07-04 08:48 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-06-28 15:46 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-06-28 16:04 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2015-06-29 08:22 +0200
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 06:56 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-06-29 12:15 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2015-06-29 16:17 +0200
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 10:22 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-06-29 10:30 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 18:42 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-30 10:13 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-06-30 12:56 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-01 05:12 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-06-29 19:40 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 20:48 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-06-30 20:50 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-06-30 14:09 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-06-30 17:06 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-01 09:00 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-02 17:35 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-07-02 20:40 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-03 09:28 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-07-03 06:36 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-03 15:27 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-07-03 14:41 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-03 20:53 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2015-06-30 17:51 -0600
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-30 04:33 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-06-29 20:04 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally greymausg <maus@mail.com> - 2015-06-30 10:27 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-01 05:02 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-06-30 08:38 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-01 05:16 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-06-30 12:17 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-06-29 09:50 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-06-29 12:32 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-30 04:40 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-30 04:23 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-06-30 12:56 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-06-30 09:25 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) - 2015-06-30 17:23 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-06-30 12:39 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) - 2015-07-01 10:10 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-01 12:06 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 05:29 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-02 11:44 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-07-02 16:04 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-07-02 11:32 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-07-02 20:41 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-03 05:55 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-02 17:35 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-02 19:05 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Morten Reistad <first@last.navn> - 2015-07-02 21:58 +0200
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally greymausg <maus@mail.com> - 2015-07-03 12:31 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-04 04:59 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-07-01 09:18 -0400
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-07-01 11:34 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-01 09:15 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-06-30 19:36 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) - 2015-07-01 10:29 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-01 12:06 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 05:36 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-01 12:06 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 05:28 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-07-01 17:29 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-02 11:44 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 06:56 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-02 09:03 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-07-02 10:01 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-02 16:36 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-02 10:56 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-02 10:55 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-07-02 16:10 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-02 13:27 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-03 05:48 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-02 21:51 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-07-04 06:39 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-05 05:47 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-07-02 11:59 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-07-02 11:50 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-02 13:42 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) - 2015-07-03 10:03 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-03 05:21 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-07-02 20:45 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-02 17:07 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-02 18:04 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 15:02 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-02 21:54 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally greymausg <maus@mail.com> - 2015-07-03 12:31 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally greymausg <maus@mail.com> - 2015-07-03 08:15 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-03 05:53 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-03 12:24 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-03 14:12 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-04 11:41 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-04 14:17 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-07-04 11:59 -0400
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-07-06 10:56 -0400
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally lawrence@cluon.com - 2015-07-07 16:18 +0200
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally greymausg <maus@mail.com> - 2015-07-04 13:55 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-05 05:40 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-07-04 20:05 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-05 13:49 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-07-05 09:05 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-05 17:49 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-06 11:36 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-07 05:45 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-06 06:03 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-07-05 23:23 -0400
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-07-06 15:43 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-06 11:36 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-06 16:02 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-07 12:37 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-07 05:43 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-05 16:37 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-07-06 13:52 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-07 05:42 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-07 12:37 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 05:20 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-07 12:37 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-07 17:25 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-07-07 15:40 -0400
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-08 06:46 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-07-07 18:07 -0400
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-08 08:33 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "EspenFucker" <EF4312@nospam.com> - 2015-07-08 14:47 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Kerr Mudd-John" <notsaying@invalid.org> - 2015-07-08 13:08 -0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-08 16:52 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-07-08 13:26 -0400
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-07-08 17:41 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-09 05:00 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-09 00:29 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "EspenFucker" <EF4312@nospam.com> - 2015-07-09 04:45 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-08 14:35 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Kerr Mudd-John" <notsaying@invalid.org> - 2015-07-08 13:15 -0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-08 10:09 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-07-08 16:25 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Hop David <hopd@nospam.cunews.info> - 2015-07-09 15:36 -0400
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-09 04:44 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-08 16:52 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-08 18:08 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-09 09:18 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Morten Reistad <first@last.navn> - 2015-07-08 07:23 +0200
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-09 12:15 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-09 16:04 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-07-09 11:49 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-09 12:27 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-09 19:02 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-07-09 14:05 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-09 12:12 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-10 05:39 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-10 00:45 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-09 23:21 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-10 15:29 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-07-10 00:30 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-10 10:22 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-10 10:26 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-10 16:36 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-10 13:06 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-10 10:27 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-11 04:46 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 05:22 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "ratsack" <ratgsack281@nospam.com> - 2015-07-10 05:25 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-08 14:20 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-08 16:52 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-09 12:15 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 05:23 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 04:47 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 05:23 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-07 22:02 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-07 13:49 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 05:28 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-08 14:20 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-07-08 11:32 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-09 12:15 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 04:51 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-01 05:10 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-30 04:53 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally lynn@garlic.com - 2015-06-29 17:36 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) - 2015-06-30 11:23 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-06-30 14:07 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) - 2015-07-01 10:14 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-07-01 17:34 -0500
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) - 2015-07-03 09:42 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-07-01 20:47 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 08:12 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-06-29 07:05 +0000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) - 2015-06-30 10:41 +0100
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-06-30 09:22 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-06-30 09:59 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-07-07 10:14 -0700
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-06-28 12:03 -0400
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 06:54 +1000
Re: Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-06-28 18:39 -0700
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| From | greymausg <maus@mail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-30 10:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmp4p4n.1tb.maus@dmaus.org> |
| In reply to | #147692 |
On 2015-06-30, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: > On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:22:49 -0500, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: > > [snip] > >>Someone told me some years ago that they were going to use biometrics >>for security, to make sure only certain people got into some areas. I >>then asked them, 'what if they have retina surgery ? I have, and one >>of my retinas changes shape almost daily'. They had no answer and sort >>of wandered away mumbling to themselves. > > Details, please, about your retina that changes shape so often. > What is the name of the condition? > > Sincerely, > > Gene Wirchenko There are several problems with biometrics, for instance, drug use, illness. Glaucoma can affect the shape of the eyeball. -- greymaus . . ...
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| From | "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-07-01 05:02 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <cvg7emF54csU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #147703 |
"greymausg" <maus@mail.com> wrote in message news:slrnmp4p4n.1tb.maus@dmaus.org... > On 2015-06-30, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: >> On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:22:49 -0500, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >>>Someone told me some years ago that they were going to use biometrics >>>for security, to make sure only certain people got into some areas. I >>>then asked them, 'what if they have retina surgery ? I have, and one >>>of my retinas changes shape almost daily'. They had no answer and sort >>>of wandered away mumbling to themselves. >> >> Details, please, about your retina that changes shape so often. >> What is the name of the condition? >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Gene Wirchenko > > > There are several problems with biometrics, for instance, > drug use, illness. But its perfectly possible for the biometric scanner to be immune from those effects. > Glaucoma can affect the shape of the eyeball. But does not see the retina change shape almost daily. Sudden change due to surgery fails safe and it is completely trivial to do another scan after that just like was done with the original scan when that individual was added to the system. And if the retina does change at a high rate, that fails safe and you can just fall back to something else like a PIN but only for that individual and have the much more secure verification of the individual for everyone else.
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| From | JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-30 08:38 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ks65pa5j4dv6pt6mtmggq5sf9p5o3jhfa9@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #147692 |
On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:04:32 -0700, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: >On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:22:49 -0500, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: > >[snip] > >>Someone told me some years ago that they were going to use biometrics >>for security, to make sure only certain people got into some areas. I >>then asked them, 'what if they have retina surgery ? I have, and one >>of my retinas changes shape almost daily'. They had no answer and sort >>of wandered away mumbling to themselves. > > Details, please, about your retina that changes shape so often. >What is the name of the condition? > >Sincerely, > >Gene Wirchenko The name of the condition is laser surgery to put it back together. The healing causes it to change shape. -- JimP.
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| From | "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-07-01 05:16 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <cvg87oF5b76U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #147716 |
"JimP" <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ks65pa5j4dv6pt6mtmggq5sf9p5o3jhfa9@4ax.com... > On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:04:32 -0700, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> > wrote: >>On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:22:49 -0500, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>[snip] >> >>>Someone told me some years ago that they were going to use biometrics >>>for security, to make sure only certain people got into some areas. I >>>then asked them, 'what if they have retina surgery ? I have, and one >>>of my retinas changes shape almost daily'. They had no answer and sort >>>of wandered away mumbling to themselves. >> >> Details, please, about your retina that changes shape so often. >>What is the name of the condition? > The name of the condition is laser surgery to put it back together. > The healing causes it to change shape. Completely trivial to wait until its healed and do a new retina scan. And it fails safe while its healing.
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-30 12:17 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6oq5pap0aumus1hqjsj9te50bu3vidi3kt@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #147716 |
On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 08:38:09 -0500, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:04:32 -0700, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net>
>wrote:
>>On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:22:49 -0500, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>Someone told me some years ago that they were going to use biometrics
>>>for security, to make sure only certain people got into some areas. I
>>>then asked them, 'what if they have retina surgery ? I have, and one
>>>of my retinas changes shape almost daily'. They had no answer and sort
>>>of wandered away mumbling to themselves.
>>
>> Details, please, about your retina that changes shape so often.
>>What is the name of the condition?
>The name of the condition is laser surgery to put it back together.
>The healing causes it to change shape.
So it is a temporary condition then? I thought that you were
referring to a permanent condition.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| From | Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-29 09:50 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <87lhf2jw70.fsf@lhwserver.localdomain> |
| In reply to | #147627 |
Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes: > Biometrics are *completely*useless* as an identification vehicle. They > are all sufficiently fuzzy that the fuzzyness will overwhelm the > selection of any one subject when the total population goes up. More > samples do not help. > > However, the can be excellent for *verification*, once you claim to be > you (via some other channel, ie. an account name, a pin, a ppn etc.) > you can call up a template where it really helps to have more samples. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#3 Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#6 Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#7 Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#8 Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally i've periodically had this discussion about confusing identification and authentication ... even recently accusing a former director of certain gov. agency of their purposefully perpetuating the confusion ... he and his former assistant director were on panel discussion ... and his former assitant director quiped back what about non-repudiation (side-track the discussion) ... aka from PAIN/CAIN mnemonic Privacy/Confidential Authentication Identification Non-repudation some past identification/authentication http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay7.htm#3dsecure 3D Secure Vulnerabilities? Photo ID's and Payment Infrastructure http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#72 Account Numbers. Was: Confusing Authentication and Identiification? (addenda) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#73 Account Numbers. Was: Confusing Authentication and Identiification? (addenda) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#17 continuity of identity http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#35 [Clips] Banks Seek Better Online-Security Tools http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#23 Identity resurges as a debate topic http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#47 The Tao Of Backup: End of postings http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#64 More on garbage http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#19 Identity and Access Management (IAM) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#46 Windows Monitor or CUSP? PAIN http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#53 Authentication white paper http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki15 CFP: PKI research workshop http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki17 CFP: PKI research workshop http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki18 CFP: PKI research workshop http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#paiin PAIIN security glossary & taxonomy http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#11 Meaning of Non-repudiation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#12 Meaning of Non-repudiation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm14.htm#39 An attack on paypal http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#11 Difference between TCPA-Hardware and a smart card (was: example: secure computing kernel needed) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#13 The PAIN mnemonic http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#14 Non-repudiation (was RE: The PAIN mnemonic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#17 Non-repudiation (was RE: The PAIN mnemonic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#18 Non-repudiation (was RE: The PAIN mnemonic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#23 Non-repudiation (was RE: The PAIN mnemonic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#3 Non-repudiation (was RE: The PAIN mnemonic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#5 Non-repudiation (was RE: The PAIN mnemonic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#28 Definitions of "Security"? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#47 the limits of crypto and authentication http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#28 solving the wrong problem http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#18 'Virtual Card' Offers Online Security Blanket http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#5 long-term GPG signing key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#45 Court rules email addresses are not signatures, and signs death warrant for Digital Signatures http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#33 Mozilla moves on security http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#38 How the Classical Scholars dropped security from the canon of Computer Science http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#8 What is the point of encrypting information that is publicly visible? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#17 Changing the Mantra -- RFC 4732 on rethinking DOS http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#27 man in the middle, SSL ... addenda http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#63 Public key encrypt-then-sign or sign-then-encrypt? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#15 307 digit number factored http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#37 unix http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#47 The Tao Of Backup: End of postings http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#22 securID weakness http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#29 Biometric cards will not stop identity fraud http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#11 Order of Encryption and Authentication http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#51 Security via hardware? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#64 More on garbage http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005k.html#26 More on garbage http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005k.html#55 Encryption Everywhere? (Was: Re: Ho boy! Another big one!) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#29 Importing CA certificate to smartcard http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#35 More Phishing scams, still no SSL being used http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#36 More Phishing scams, still no SSL being used http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#42 public key authentication http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#53 Barcode Email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#13 IPSEC with non-domain Server http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#27 whats the difference between Encryption and Encoding ? or both are same ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005v.html#3 ABN Tape - Found http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#35 X.509 and ssh http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006d.html#26 Caller ID "spoofing" http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#44 Does the Data Protection Act of 2005 Make Sense http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006m.html#15 OpenSSL Hacks http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#40 Encryption and authentication http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#49 Patent buster for a method that increases password security http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#25 "The Elements of Programming Style" http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#20 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#33 security engineering versus information security http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#35 security engineering versus information security http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#35 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#34 Mixed Case Password on z/OS 1.7 and ACF 2 Version 8 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#31 Is that secure : <form action="https" from a local HTML page ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#58 T.J. Maxx data theft worse than first reported http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#65 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#74 public key password authentication http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#53 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#8 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#63 Translation of IBM Basic Assembler to C? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#55 Is data classification the right approach to pursue a risk based information security program? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#83 Certificate Purpose http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#6 SECURITY and BUSINESS CONTINUITY ..... Where they fit in? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#29 is privacy a security attribute(component or ?). If yes, why? If no why not? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#92 Why do most websites use HTTPS only while logging you in...and not for the entire session? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#7 GSM eavesdropping http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#9 NSA chief criticises media and suggests UK was right to detain David Miranda http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#13 Royal Pardon For Turing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#49 Let's Face It--It's the Cyber Era and We're Cyber Dumb http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#27 TCP/IP Might Have Been Secure From the Start If Not For the NSA http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#70 Obama Administration Launches Plan To Make An "Internet ID" A Reality -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| From | Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-29 12:32 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mmrvce$7k2$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #147627 |
On 29-Jun-15 09:17, Morten Reistad wrote: > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >> How does the device adjust itself when the fingerprint changes? > > And a fingerprint is easy to steal. You leave around a thousand of > them on reclaimable surfaces every day. That's what advocates always seem to forget. More importantly, what do you _do_ when someone's biometrics get stolen? It's not like you can tell the user to change their fingerprint or retina--and even if they could, it'd just get stolen again. The entire idea is fundamentally flawed. > Biometrics are *completely*useless* as an identification vehicle. > They are all sufficiently fuzzy that the fuzzyness will overwhelm the > selection of any one subject when the total population goes up. More > samples do not help. That too. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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| From | "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-30 04:40 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <cvdhpdFeq4pU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #147658 |
"Stephen Sprunk" <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote in message news:mmrvce$7k2$2@dont-email.me... > On 29-Jun-15 09:17, Morten Reistad wrote: >> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>> How does the device adjust itself when the fingerprint changes? >> >> And a fingerprint is easy to steal. You leave around a thousand of >> them on reclaimable surfaces every day. > > That's what advocates always seem to forget. More importantly, what do > you _do_ when someone's biometrics get stolen? It isn't useful to steal the retinal scan, there is no way to use it to fool the system. It's not like you can > tell the user to change their fingerprint or retina--and even if they > could, it'd just get stolen again. > > The entire idea is fundamentally flawed. Still leaves PINs for dead. >> Biometrics are *completely*useless* as an identification vehicle. >> They are all sufficiently fuzzy that the fuzzyness will overwhelm the >> selection of any one subject when the total population goes up. More >> samples do not help. > > That too.
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| From | "John Chance" <JCJC@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-30 04:23 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <cvdgpqFehqhU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #147627 |
"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name> wrote in message
news:bl086c-rdb.ln1@sambook.reistad.name...
> In article <PM000519A6F22E6261@aca40a4c.ipt.aol.com>,
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>John Chance wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:IJ-dndYwPp7bzw3InZ2dnUU78XmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> On 28/06/2015 17:36, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>>> {snip}
>>>>
>>>>> During chip&pin deployment in the UK, I was contracted by a legal
>>>>> representative of one such person in dispute with their financial
>>>>> dispute. There was dispute about withdrawal at ATM machine ... the
>>>>> person claimed he didn't do it. With the reverse in dispute, the
>>>>> person
>>>>> had to prove they didn't do it ... say producing the ATM surveillance
>>>>> video showing it was done by somebody else (the bank wasn't required
>>>>> to
>>>>> produce the ATM surveilance video showing that they had done it).
>>>>
>>>> We need to prevent card copying
>>>
>>> Not possible with chip and pin.
>>>
>>>> and keep pins hidden from other people.
>>>
>>> Don’t need a pin at all when the phone uses
>>> a fingerprint sensor instead of a pin and the
>>> fingerprint is much harder to steal.
>>>
>>How does the device adjust itself when the fingerprint
>>changes?
>
> And a fingerprint is easy to steal. You leave around a
> thousand of them on reclaimable surfaces every day.
But its not easy to steal it and use in on the phone
without it being obvious what you are doing and
MUCH harder to steal than a PIN.
> Biometrics are *completely*useless* as an identification
> vehicle.
Much better than a PIN which is
so easy to steal in a retail situation.
> They are all sufficiently fuzzy that the fuzzyness will
> overwhelm the selection of any one subject when the
> total population goes up. More samples do not help.
> However, the can be excellent for *verification*,
> once you claim to be you (via some other channel,
> ie. an account name, a pin, a ppn etc.)
Or having the phone in your hand.
> you can call up a template where
> it really helps to have more samples.
> But telling this to Rod is a waste of time.
You'd better tell Apple and IBM etc etc too.
> But the rest of you may not be aware of this distinction.
Bet they are.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-30 12:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000519BB59DF8E0A@aca42b0a.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #147627 |
Morten Reistad wrote:
> In article <PM000519A6F22E6261@aca40a4c.ipt.aol.com>,
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>John Chance wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:IJ-dndYwPp7bzw3InZ2dnUU78XmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> On 28/06/2015 17:36, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>>> {snip}
>>>>
>>>>> During chip&pin deployment in the UK, I was contracted by a legal
>>>>> representative of one such person in dispute with their financial
>>>>> dispute. There was dispute about withdrawal at ATM machine ... the
>>>>> person claimed he didn't do it. With the reverse in dispute, the person
>>>>> had to prove they didn't do it ... say producing the ATM surveillance
>>>>> video showing it was done by somebody else (the bank wasn't required to
>>>>> produce the ATM surveilance video showing that they had done it).
>>>>
>>>> We need to prevent card copying
>>>
>>> Not possible with chip and pin.
>>>
>>>> and keep pins hidden from other people.
>>>
>>> Donât need a pin at all when the phone uses
>>> a fingerprint sensor instead of a pin and the
>>> fingerprint is much harder to steal.
>>>
>>How does the device adjust itself when the fingerprint
>>changes?
>
> And a fingerprint is easy to steal. You leave around a
> thousand of them on reclaimable surfaces every day.
>
> Biometrics are *completely*useless* as an identification
> vehicle. They are all sufficiently fuzzy that the fuzzyness
> will overwhelm the selection of any one subject when the
> total population goes up. More samples do not help.
>
> However, the can be excellent for *verification*, once
> you claim to be you (via some other channel, ie. an
> account name, a pin, a ppn etc.) you can call up a template
> where it really helps to have more samples.
>
> But telling this to Rod is a waste of time.
>
> But the rest of you may not be aware of this distinction.
I heard a news item state that finger prints can be "lifted"
from a photo of someone. I wasn't able to verify that one.
I think some Hollywood type had her accounts cracked because
of that according to the report.
/BAH
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| From | Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-30 09:25 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mmu8qc$i31$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #147713 |
On 30-Jun-15 07:56, jmfbahciv wrote: > Morten Reistad wrote: >> And a fingerprint is easy to steal. You leave around a thousand of >> them on reclaimable surfaces every day. >> ... > > I heard a news item state that finger prints can be "lifted" from a > photo of someone. I wasn't able to verify that one. Is this another thing you "heard on the radio"? You'd need an incredibly high resolution photo to do that, and that usually means a telephoto zoom that also means the target finger would need to be perfectly still to avoid blurring, plus there's need to be some sort of contrast agent to make out the ridges. That's not nearly as practical as, say, digging in the target's trash, but it's at least theoretically possible, yes. A crime show I watch reported that you can reproduce keys from a picture, which _is_ clearly feasible, mainly because there are only so many positions for each pin and the contrast is a lot clearer. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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| From | simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-30 17:23 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <20150630.1623.969340snz@twoplaces.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #147719 |
On Tuesday, in article <mmu8qc$i31$1@dont-email.me>
stephen@sprunk.org "Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
> On 30-Jun-15 07:56, jmfbahciv wrote:
> > Morten Reistad wrote:
> >> And a fingerprint is easy to steal. You leave around a thousand of
> >> them on reclaimable surfaces every day.
> >> ...
> >
> > I heard a news item state that finger prints can be "lifted" from a
> > photo of someone. I wasn't able to verify that one.
>
> Is this another thing you "heard on the radio"?
This is probably what Barb heard about (December 2014):
Politician's fingerprint 'cloned from photos' by hacker
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30623611
I also recall hearing about this at the time.
> You'd need an incredibly high resolution photo to do that, and that
> usually means a telephoto zoom that also means the target finger would
> need to be perfectly still to avoid blurring, plus there's need to be
> some sort of contrast agent to make out the ridges.
Photos of a German politician taken at a press event with a "standard
photo camera". High resolution, naturally (what isn't these days?), but
probably not "incredibly" so; perhaps not quite as tricky to achieve as
you suggest above.
> That's not nearly as practical as, say, digging in the target's trash,
Indeed not.
> but it's at least theoretically possible, yes.
Demonstrably so, it would seem.
--
Simon Turner DoD #0461
simon@twoplaces.co.uk
Trust me -- I know what I'm doing! -- Sledge Hammer
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| From | Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-30 12:39 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mmuk62$5i1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #147735 |
On 30-Jun-15 11:23, Simon Turner wrote: > stephen@sprunk.org "Stephen Sprunk" wrote: >> You'd need an incredibly high resolution photo to do that, and >> that usually means a telephoto zoom that also means the target >> finger would need to be perfectly still to avoid blurring, plus >> there's need to be some sort of contrast agent to make out the >> ridges. > > Photos of a German politician taken at a press event with a > "standard photo camera". High resolution, naturally (what isn't > these days?), but probably not "incredibly" so; perhaps not quite as > tricky to achieve as you suggest above. The "standard" camera these days is a smartphone, and mine can't get a reasonable picture of my fingerprint more than a few inches away. At a "press event", you've got much higher grade cameras with good zoom lenses. Hackers could buy similar equipment from "prosumer" outlets, of course, but it's not something most people have handy. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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| From | simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-07-01 10:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <20150701.0910.969359snz@twoplaces.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #147743 |
On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:39:32 -0500, in article
<mmuk62$5i1$1@dont-email.me> stephen@sprunk.org
"Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
> On 30-Jun-15 11:23, Simon Turner wrote:
> > stephen@sprunk.org "Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
> >> You'd need an incredibly high resolution photo to do that, and
> >> that usually means a telephoto zoom that also means the target
> >> finger would need to be perfectly still to avoid blurring, plus
> >> there's need to be some sort of contrast agent to make out the
> >> ridges.
> >
> > Photos of a German politician taken at a press event with a
> > "standard photo camera". High resolution, naturally (what isn't
> > these days?), but probably not "incredibly" so; perhaps not quite as
> > tricky to achieve as you suggest above.
>
> The "standard" camera these days is a smartphone, and mine can't get a
> reasonable picture of my fingerprint more than a few inches away.
Maybe your finger is too close for good focus? 8-)
I'll accept that mobile phones probably aren't going to be good enough;
but nonetheless you make it sound above as though it's something that
could only be done with massively specialist equipment and perhaps the
active cooperation of the victim ("incredibly high resolution",
"perfectly still", "contrast agent" etc.), and that doesn't seem to be
the case.
> At a "press event", you've got much higher grade cameras with good zoom
> lenses. Hackers could buy similar equipment from "prosumer" outlets, of
> course, but it's not something most people have handy.
Plenty of people have digital SLRs etc. that would be up to the task;
not "most people", but not a ridiculously tiny number of hackers and
superspies either.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that it's trivial to photographically
steal someone's fingerprints, but Barb's comment about having heard that
it was possible is apparently not as ridiculous as you initially seem to
have assumed.
--
Simon Turner DoD #0461
simon@twoplaces.co.uk
Trust me -- I know what I'm doing! -- Sledge Hammer
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-07-01 12:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000519CF52D88BDB@aca40d40.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #147797 |
Simon Turner wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:39:32 -0500, in article
> <mmuk62$5i1$1@dont-email.me> stephen@sprunk.org
> "Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
>
>> On 30-Jun-15 11:23, Simon Turner wrote:
>> > stephen@sprunk.org "Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
>> >> You'd need an incredibly high resolution photo to do that, and
>> >> that usually means a telephoto zoom that also means the target
>> >> finger would need to be perfectly still to avoid blurring, plus
>> >> there's need to be some sort of contrast agent to make out the
>> >> ridges.
>> >
>> > Photos of a German politician taken at a press event with a
>> > "standard photo camera". High resolution, naturally (what isn't
>> > these days?), but probably not "incredibly" so; perhaps not quite as
>> > tricky to achieve as you suggest above.
>>
>> The "standard" camera these days is a smartphone, and mine can't get a
>> reasonable picture of my fingerprint more than a few inches away.
>
> Maybe your finger is too close for good focus? 8-)
>
> I'll accept that mobile phones probably aren't going to be good enough;
> but nonetheless you make it sound above as though it's something that
> could only be done with massively specialist equipment and perhaps the
> active cooperation of the victim ("incredibly high resolution",
> "perfectly still", "contrast agent" etc.), and that doesn't seem to be
> the case.
>
>> At a "press event", you've got much higher grade cameras with good zoom
>> lenses. Hackers could buy similar equipment from "prosumer" outlets, of
>> course, but it's not something most people have handy.
>
> Plenty of people have digital SLRs etc. that would be up to the task;
> not "most people", but not a ridiculously tiny number of hackers and
> superspies either.
>
> Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that it's trivial to photographically
> steal someone's fingerprints, but Barb's comment about having heard that
> it was possible is apparently not as ridiculous as you initially seem to
> have assumed.
Now I'm wondering if there are weapons which are keyed via fingerprints.
/BAH
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-07-02 05:29 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <cvitdcFq3hoU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #147806 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM000519CF52D88BDB@aca40d40.ipt.aol.com...
> Simon Turner wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:39:32 -0500, in article
>> <mmuk62$5i1$1@dont-email.me> stephen@sprunk.org
>> "Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
>>
>>> On 30-Jun-15 11:23, Simon Turner wrote:
>>> > stephen@sprunk.org "Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
>>> >> You'd need an incredibly high resolution photo to do that, and
>>> >> that usually means a telephoto zoom that also means the target
>>> >> finger would need to be perfectly still to avoid blurring, plus
>>> >> there's need to be some sort of contrast agent to make out the
>>> >> ridges.
>>> >
>>> > Photos of a German politician taken at a press event with a
>>> > "standard photo camera". High resolution, naturally (what isn't
>>> > these days?), but probably not "incredibly" so; perhaps not quite as
>>> > tricky to achieve as you suggest above.
>>>
>>> The "standard" camera these days is a smartphone, and mine can't get a
>>> reasonable picture of my fingerprint more than a few inches away.
>>
>> Maybe your finger is too close for good focus? 8-)
>>
>> I'll accept that mobile phones probably aren't going to be good enough;
>> but nonetheless you make it sound above as though it's something that
>> could only be done with massively specialist equipment and perhaps the
>> active cooperation of the victim ("incredibly high resolution",
>> "perfectly still", "contrast agent" etc.), and that doesn't seem to be
>> the case.
>>
>>> At a "press event", you've got much higher grade cameras with good zoom
>>> lenses. Hackers could buy similar equipment from "prosumer" outlets, of
>>> course, but it's not something most people have handy.
>>
>> Plenty of people have digital SLRs etc. that would be up to the task;
>> not "most people", but not a ridiculously tiny number of hackers and
>> superspies either.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that it's trivial to photographically
>> steal someone's fingerprints, but Barb's comment about having heard that
>> it was possible is apparently not as ridiculous as you initially seem to
>> have assumed.
>
> Now I'm wondering if there are weapons which are keyed via fingerprints.
Yes there are. Some handguns can do that.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-07-02 11:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000519E2FDD73DB6@aca42892.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #147830 |
Rod Speed wrote:
>
>
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM000519CF52D88BDB@aca40d40.ipt.aol.com...
>> Simon Turner wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:39:32 -0500, in article
>>> <mmuk62$5i1$1@dont-email.me> stephen@sprunk.org
>>> "Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 30-Jun-15 11:23, Simon Turner wrote:
>>>> > stephen@sprunk.org "Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
>>>> >> You'd need an incredibly high resolution photo to do that, and
>>>> >> that usually means a telephoto zoom that also means the target
>>>> >> finger would need to be perfectly still to avoid blurring, plus
>>>> >> there's need to be some sort of contrast agent to make out the
>>>> >> ridges.
>>>> >
>>>> > Photos of a German politician taken at a press event with a
>>>> > "standard photo camera". High resolution, naturally (what isn't
>>>> > these days?), but probably not "incredibly" so; perhaps not quite as
>>>> > tricky to achieve as you suggest above.
>>>>
>>>> The "standard" camera these days is a smartphone, and mine can't get a
>>>> reasonable picture of my fingerprint more than a few inches away.
>>>
>>> Maybe your finger is too close for good focus? 8-)
>>>
>>> I'll accept that mobile phones probably aren't going to be good enough;
>>> but nonetheless you make it sound above as though it's something that
>>> could only be done with massively specialist equipment and perhaps the
>>> active cooperation of the victim ("incredibly high resolution",
>>> "perfectly still", "contrast agent" etc.), and that doesn't seem to be
>>> the case.
>>>
>>>> At a "press event", you've got much higher grade cameras with good zoom
>>>> lenses. Hackers could buy similar equipment from "prosumer" outlets, of
>>>> course, but it's not something most people have handy.
>>>
>>> Plenty of people have digital SLRs etc. that would be up to the task;
>>> not "most people", but not a ridiculously tiny number of hackers and
>>> superspies either.
>>>
>>> Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that it's trivial to photographically
>>> steal someone's fingerprints, but Barb's comment about having heard that
>>> it was possible is apparently not as ridiculous as you initially seem to
>>> have assumed.
>>
>> Now I'm wondering if there are weapons which are keyed via fingerprints.
>
> Yes there are. Some handguns can do that.
I was thinking about atomic bombs and ground to air missles.
/BAH
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-07-02 16:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <fidlx.56230$0i5.46607@fx26.iad> |
| In reply to | #147857 |
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >Rod Speed wrote: >>> Now I'm wondering if there are weapons which are keyed via fingerprints. >> >> Yes there are. Some handguns can do that. > >I was thinking about atomic bombs and ground to air missles. Look up "Permissive Action Link". "A device included in or attached to a nuclear weapon system to preclude arming and/or launching until the insertion of a prescribed discrete code or combination. It may include equipment and cabling external to the weapon or weapon system to activate components within the weapon or weapon system."
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| From | Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-07-02 11:32 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mn3p1j$9qn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #147866 |
On 7/2/2015 11:04 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote: > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes: >> Rod Speed wrote: > >>>> Now I'm wondering if there are weapons which are keyed via fingerprints. >>> >>> Yes there are. Some handguns can do that. >> >> I was thinking about atomic bombs and ground to air missles. > > Look up "Permissive Action Link". > > "A device included in or attached to a nuclear weapon system to preclude > arming and/or launching until the insertion of a prescribed discrete code > or combination. It may include equipment and cabling external to the weapon > or weapon system to activate components within the weapon or weapon system." > Right. The code was "00000000". Don't tell anyone.
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-07-02 20:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <q11cpa91lubc0mafpie1ppti5r0lr7cp03@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #147869 |
On Thu, 02 Jul 2015 11:32:39 -0500, Dave Garland
<dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>On 7/2/2015 11:04 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
[snip]
>> Look up "Permissive Action Link".
>>
>> "A device included in or attached to a nuclear weapon system to preclude
>> arming and/or launching until the insertion of a prescribed discrete code
>> or combination. It may include equipment and cabling external to the weapon
>> or weapon system to activate components within the weapon or weapon system."
>Right. The code was "00000000". Don't tell anyone.
How could it not be secure? That is five digits more than many
pieces of luggage.
Oh, yeah: </sarcasm>
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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