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Re: oh lord

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>> i'd let him go and just keep movin' ahead
>> with your pursuit,  whatever that might be.
>> why get into another sword fight?   next
>> it'll be windmills or something, lol!
>
> ### - (smile) times change, and ya either keeps-up or ya gets left  
> behind?
>
> am not fighting with him btw, debating isn't fighting? at least not when  
> it's conducted correctly in a reasonable manner + people stick to the  
> points raised... (which admittedly, they rarely do, especially if/when  
> it starts all goin' against them...)
>
> ribbed him once about his great strength/determination and he responded  
> very well to it, even to having a full WILD that same day! so of course  
> have stuck with encouraging him, at least until he tells me to 'eff-off  
> (which is what he's kinda doin' now...)
>
> he's not dumb! so he knows damn well what am saying/suggesting in the  
> way have done so + haven't been rude to him at all (cheeky yes, rude no,  
> and because all his follows are watchin' too heh)
>
> the kings of dilds have had their day though! 50 feckin' years of it!
>
> oh, and what's dat comin' up over the horizon?? ;)
>
> dilds 2.0
>
> only this time they's called: WILDs :)
>
> "please get out of the new road if ya's can't lend a hand
> 'coz the times they is a'changin' ;)

### - haha so he just told me to 'eff-off lol :)))

not literally, but in his somewhat polite + snooty manner hehe :)))

here's his reply:

Reece:
Right. I think the fact I had a WILD that very same night shows that  
success is almost exclusively based upon belief and determination. And so  
perhaps I find it hard to maintain that belief and determination? That’s  
my own shortcoming. I do still try and sometimes I achieve them but more  
often than not I don’t. Also, admittedly, after a few nights of  
back-to-back failed attempts and negatively affected sleep, I become  
somewhat dissuaded from continuing.

I think it’s hard to argue that a serious practitioner of DILDing is lazy,  
though. You yourself have admitted it is, in fact, the harder of the two  
methods.

With all that in mind, I’ll continue to be a proponent of both. I think  
each one is an extremely powerful practice in its own right.

***

and, seein' as he threw me a curved ball re negatively affected sleep bs +  
also prevaricated/deflected on what was meant by 'laziness'; i've replied  
+ nailed the sucker to his perch then:

Brian Aherne Reece Joseph Jones:
'Belief' belongs exclusively to dilds, whereas the proof of the pudding  
for WILDs is in the doing thereof, not in the hoping & believing/praying  
for results; that in that sense dilds & WILDs are at the opposite ends of  
the same pole and thus require very different handling...

imho; you're 'determination' - cultivated in another direction entirely -  
is what ultimately facilitated that rapid WILD of yours, and was what our  
conversation at the time was about; my opening remarks (which i still have  
somewhere) being only about that, and about your applying that same type  
of 'grit' to WILDing... which, as it turned out, was correct! You WILDed  
as easy as anything that same day! (i'd call that convincing, wouldn't  
you?)

I do think/agree that dilds are far harder than WILDs (which is why i  
ultimately put them in the advanced section of my book) the 'laziness'  
comment referring to the fact that experienced dilders have been trained  
to wait on chance to provide the opportunities to lucid dream, so they  
initially feel a bit weird actually going directly into a lucid dream  
state while they're still awake (smile, one guy even left my group  
complaining that he was going back to dilding because you *don't* have to  
be doing anything directly (at bedtime) to get them? made me laugh anyhoo  
haha)

And that's the whole point in a nutshell really: WILDs are volitional and  
respond to volitional commands, whereas dilds do not and, as such, are  
indirect... and that's what 'makes' them much harder in the long run:  
there's no on/off switch available!

And yes, both methods are indeed powerful techniques, but here's the rub:  
WILDs explains dilds whereas dilds do not shed any light on WILDs - i.e.,  
lucid dreaming per se appears to have very different values (and even  
principles) depending from which pov one views the basic subject... dilds  
presents one view and WILDs another, both completely different and in  
stark contrast to one another! But which, in reality, are really only the  
2-sides of the same one coin...

The way it seems to work (plus i remain open to alternatives) is that  
WILDs 'includes' dilds but not the other way around; the 'process' being  
totally obscured/hidden in dilds but completely revealed via WILDs  
(probably because we're awake when it happens!)

Anyways, am always interested in discussing this particular topic (because  
it 'is' cutting-edge stuff and am very interested in what lies beyond  
that?) but am not here to twist your arm any, except perhaps very gently  
as per that first real exchange we had, wherein i 'seemed' to get-through  
to you and you indeed experienced some good WILDs almost effortlessly  
(which, btw, is how they 'should' be done: effortlessly!) and if you wish  
to now 'forget' having had that illuminating experience then really that's  
entirely up to you, and good luck...

Ps... i do wish you'd continued your adventures into WILDing though as you  
told a good tale, plus am sure everyone who was following it (myself  
included) was looking forward to any discoveries & observations you might  
have then made? (new things are always like a breath of fresh air? It  
invigorates.)

***

so there, have tied him up now with that last remark hah... he wanted to  
wriggle out of it (some form of denial perhaps?) and yes that's entirely  
up to him!

only, of course, there's a price to pay: he's effectively leaving himself  
(and his follows) behind?

an opportunity missed! is prolly how he'll eventually come around to  
viewing it... was handed WILDs on a plate, really got something out of it:  
proof! (+ a series of ensuing WILDs which he then serialised for his  
followers; the most interesting thing he's done in years!)

i mean, here's a guy who was not only 'told' about WILDs, but very luckily  
was actually 'shown'?

and in a nutshell that's what we're always up against in wallyworld innit:  
inertia!

(slider standing at the sea shore telling the in-coming tide to: go back!  
go back!)

might thus be best to wait until any tide is already going out?

(made sure of that before even starting, grinz ;)

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                imagine using imagination ? luckyrat <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2019-12-29 09:42 -0800
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                Re: teach your dreamers well slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2020-02-02 22:57 +0000
                Re: teach your dreamers well luckyrat <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2020-02-02 21:08 -0800
                Re: confirmation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2020-02-03 09:57 +0000
                Re: confirmation/validation? absolutely! :) luckyrat <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2020-02-03 05:45 -0800
                Re: confirmation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2020-02-03 15:21 +0000
                Re: confirmation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2020-02-04 14:28 +0000
                wanna feel good ? luckyrat <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2020-02-04 07:20 -0800
                Re: wanna feel good ? slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2020-02-04 16:01 +0000
                Re: wanna feel good ? luckyrat <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2020-02-04 08:18 -0800
                Re: wanna feel good ? slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2020-02-04 16:34 +0000
                Re: confirmation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2020-02-04 21:36 +0000
                this bitch takes the cake luckyrat <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2020-02-04 20:44 -0800
                Re: this bitch takes the cake slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2020-02-05 15:15 +0000
                Re: confirmation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2020-02-05 16:15 +0000
                what a supreme waste of time luckyrat <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2020-02-05 13:51 -0800
                Re: confirmation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2020-02-16 14:02 +0000
                Re: confirmation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2020-03-20 09:48 +0000
                set-back slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2019-12-18 22:47 +0000
                Re: set-back sparkygriswold <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2019-12-18 14:50 -0800
                Re: set-back slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2019-12-19 00:19 +0000
                impeachment?   what is it good for ? sparkygriswold <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2019-12-18 18:22 -0800
                Re: impeachment?   what is it good for ? slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2019-12-19 04:57 +0000
                Re: impeachment?   what is it good for ? sparkygriswold <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2019-12-19 06:06 -0800
                Re: set-back slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2019-12-19 04:05 +0000
                Re: set-back slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2019-12-19 15:48 +0000
                Re: set-back slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2019-12-19 16:09 +0000
                Re: set-back - sorted! slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2019-12-25 22:25 +0000
                Re: set-back - sorted! sparkygriswold <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2019-12-25 16:34 -0800
                Re: set-back - sorted! slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2019-12-26 02:57 +0000
                Re: set-back - sorted! slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2019-12-26 14:05 +0000
                Re: set-back - sorted! thang ornerythinchus <thangolossus@gmail.com> - 2019-12-28 18:47 +0800
                Re: confirmation/validation? absolutely! :) twistedfate <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2019-11-19 08:57 -0800
                Re: Tada! :) thang ornerythinchus <thangolossus@gmail.com> - 2019-11-25 09:19 +0800
                Tada! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2019-11-13 16:24 +0000
                Re: Tada! :) twistedfate <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2019-11-13 10:09 -0800
                Re: Tada! :) slider <slider@atashram.com> - 2019-11-13 18:31 +0000
                Re: Tada! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2019-11-14 00:25 +0000
                Re: Tada! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2019-11-14 08:28 +0000

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