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Groups > alt.fan.rush-limbaugh > #3041223
| Newsgroups | alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism, alt.politics.republicans, alt.politics.democrats.d, talk.politics.guns |
|---|---|
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> |
| References | (7 earlier) <8l1h1ll2d34nni4bfjb0bbgjp5t5kr28q1@4ax.com> <XnsB45AD5F92E0A5629555@185.151.15.190> <27io1lpn25tp6d3cu2vqlf2843tl2sotil@4ax.com> <XnsB45D845A9EBC0629555@185.151.15.190> <uqnu1lp46ipntnuqgr6i3isgpi94kagbg8@4ax.com> |
| Organization | ViperNews - www.vipernews.com |
| Message-Id | <XnsB4605408C4795629555@185.151.15.190> |
| Date | 2026-06-03 13:22 +0000 |
Cross-posted to 6 groups.
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:uqnu1lp46ipntnuqgr6i3isgpi94kagbg8@4ax.com:
> On Sun, 31 May 2026 18:07:19 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <XnsB45D845A9EBC0629555@185.151.15.190> wrote:
>
>>Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>news:27io1lpn25tp6d3cu2vqlf2843tl2sotil@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Fri, 29 May 2026 02:08:28 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>>> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <XnsB45AD5F92E0A5629555@185.151.15.190> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In these examples there were no state laws to conflict with
>>>>> federal law.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The above just illustrate that the Confederacy was
>>>>about defending slavery, they didn't care whit about
>>>>"states rights"
>>>
>>> Just exactly how was the North going to end slavery?
>>>
>>
>>
>> As shown by the portion you snipped,
>>at the time the South seceded the North
>>wasn't TRYING to end slavery. In fact
>>Lincoln offered to PRESERVE slavery in
>>the states that already had it.
>
> If that is true why was the CSA even formed?
Confederates wanted to EXPAND slavery,
Lincoln was opposed to that. And they
seceded without even trying to negotiate
the issue.
>
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> State objections were not allowed.
>>>>>>The CSA Constitution mandated legal slavery
>>>>>>regardless of local opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was the way the CSA system was constructed. It did not
>>>>> exist when the states left the union. At that point it was
>>>>> state power vs federal power.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exactly. The CSA was about slavery,
>>>>not state's rights.
>>>
>>> You are saying the only thing the CSA was concerned about
>>> was slavery?
>>
>>
>> A sampling of the Declaration of
>>Secession documents:
>>
>>
>>Mississippi: "Our position is thoroughly
>>identified with the institution of slavery"
>
> The issue ws slavery but it rested upon the law, which the
> states felt should hold state law as paramount.
>
The Supremecy Clause is in the Constitution.
Which Southerners loved when it came to forcing
states to return runaway slaves to their owners.
>>
>>Georgia: "For the last ten years we have
>>had numerous and serious causes of complaint
>>against our non-slave-holding confederate
>>States with reference to the subject of
>>African slavery."
>>
>>South Carolina: "an increasing hostility
>>on the part of the non-slaveholding States
>>to the institution of slavery."
>>
>>Texas: "maintaining and protecting the
>>institution known as negro slavery -- the
>>servitude of the African to the white race."
>>
>>https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-
>>seceding-states
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lincoln offered to PRESERVE SLAVERY.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Buchanan offered to PRESERVE SLAVERY.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who was trying to "end slavery"?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Republican Party and their platform. Especially in any
>>>>> new states.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Show us what the 1860 GOP platform
>>>>says about slavery.
>>>
>>> Look it up yourself.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> There were no abolition bills
>>>>>>in Congress at the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because the new Congress had not been sworn in. Nor had
>>>>> Lincoln.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exactly. The Slavery States didn't
>>>>want to even negotiate the issue.
>>>
>>> There was nothing to negotiate. The South would not accept
>>> all new states being slave free and the North would accept
>>> nothing else.
>>>
>>
>> Where did "the Horth" say that at the
>>time of secession?
>
> Secession occurred because the South expected what the North
> eventually did.
>
They seceded to expand slavery. Not
because of any "state's rights".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To prevent living under the laws against slavery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you admit secession was about slavery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not "states rights".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that's a start.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The basic issue was whether or not a state could pass laws
>>>>> that were in conflict with federal law and prevent federal
>>>>> law from being enforced in the state. The particular issue
>>>>> were laws involving slavery.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did any states secede over the federal
>>>>Slave Fugitive Acts? Many northern states
>>>>hate them but didn't not attack the government
>>>>over this submission to southern state demands.
>>>
>>> The South felt those laws did not apply to them.
>>
>>
>> Prisons are full of people who felt the
>>law didn't apply to them. Is that a legal
>>justification for violating it?
>
> Persons are not organized and recognized states.
>
You don't get to pick and choose what laws
apply to you.
>>>>
>>>>> Did the individual states have the power to negate federal
>>>>> law by passing conflicting state law? The Union said no.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Supremecy Clause of the Constituion said no.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The states said yes.
>>>>
>>>> Secession is unconstitutional.
>>>
>>> Only by Court interpretation, made after the Civil War.
>>>
>>
>>
>> There is nothing in the Constution
>>that allows for secession.
>
> There is nothing to prevent it either.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Fact.
>>>>
>>>>https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/700/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for supporting what I said. In 1862 there was no
>>> legal mechanism for leaving the union or to prevent states
>>> from leaving the union. That was only decided on the
>>> battlefield.
>>
>>
>> That battlefield being Ft Sumter.
>>
>> The Confederacy attacked America,
>>why should we "honor" that with statues?
>>
>
> That is a modern viewpoint. At the time it was the Union
> and the CSA. The Union considered the states as still part
> of the union. The CSA did not.
States do not get to "consider" what laws
they will obey.
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Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-25 02:20 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-26 15:38 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-27 18:31 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-27 13:58 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 13:54 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 16:46 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 16:57 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-28 14:27 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-29 02:08 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.corn> - 2026-05-29 13:53 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 16:04 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 16:52 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 18:21 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 19:30 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-31 10:58 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-31 18:07 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-02 19:02 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-03 13:22 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-04 16:29 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-05 01:47 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-05 06:37 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-05 13:17 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-05 18:28 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-06 14:23 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-07 01:10 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-08 13:52 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-09 07:56 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-12 02:39 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-12 06:02 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-14 14:20 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-14 15:55 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-17 14:00 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-17 10:33 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-19 14:36 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-20 01:25 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 09:42 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-20 14:26 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-20 15:33 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 23:23 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-21 14:08 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-21 18:48 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 23:21 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-21 14:16 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 08:49 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-22 02:01 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 20:24 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-22 06:46 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 10:28 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-22 10:09 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 02:32 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-06-22 22:45 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:38 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-06-23 20:10 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 06:43 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-06-25 22:53 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 05:10 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-26 13:45 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 09:54 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-27 14:19 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-27 11:38 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-28 02:26 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-28 08:15 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-27 08:39 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:32 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 13:37 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-23 09:46 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 18:56 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 13:43 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 10:24 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 17:56 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 14:48 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-25 13:58 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-25 11:07 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-26 13:27 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 10:05 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-28 02:38 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-28 08:36 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-28 13:54 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-28 18:28 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-30 02:29 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-30 04:56 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 23:47 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 12:33 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 17:57 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 14:50 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-25 01:45 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-25 02:44 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-25 11:59 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 23:45 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 11:09 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 18:00 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 23:46 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-21 19:01 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 18:15 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-19 02:22 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-19 05:41 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 09:53 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-19 18:14 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-20 01:30 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 10:43 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-20 09:20 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-21 13:59 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 08:35 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-21 19:09 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 17:16 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-22 06:51 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 02:23 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:43 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 18:34 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 19:04 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-23 09:44 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 02:16 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:58 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 13:26 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 10:32 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-26 13:38 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 10:09 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-26 09:21 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 11:08 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-23 09:43 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 19:12 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Alan Bond <bondrock@ifx.net> - 2026-06-19 09:01 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Amal Bond <ab@ifx.net> - 2026-06-20 02:11 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Alan Bond <bondrock@ifx.net> - 2026-06-18 20:30 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-20 02:07 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-19 22:34 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-29 02:29 -0400
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