Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.databases.postgresql > #503

Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb?

Show all headers | View raw

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:17:36 +0000, Fredrik Jonson wrote:

>  don't know what strange database environments you're the DBA or
>  designer
> of Mladen, but your dependency to a fault on query hints is really
> curious.
> 
> You can easily use Postgresql, Mysql, Mariadb and many other database
> engines for decades in regular service with various interesting loads
> and volume requirements without ever having a problem that requires
> hints to be resolved.

So thee is no reason for MySQL, Mariadb, MS SQL Server, Oracle or DB2 to 
implement them? Now, that's interesting! Those guys aside, why did 
EnterpriseDB implement them? 
And having worked as a DBA (mostly Oracle, but also DB2 and RDB a long, 
long time ago) for approximately quarter of century, I must tell you that 
I encountered problem that required hints every month or so.
Basically, hints were required whenever an application starts misbehaving 
and a rapid fix is required. Sometimes, you can get by by simply 
rewriting SQL, sometimes you can not. I have worked for an HMO, media 
company and hedge fund, among the others. What is your experience as a 
DBA?


> 
> I'm sure you'd be happy to provide us with contrieved examples of how
> hints saves your day on regular basis. 

No need for contrived examples and artificial constructions. There are 
two cases which PostgreSQL optimizer cannot handle well: correlated 
columns and partitioning. Other deficiencies of partitioning aside, 
partition elimination is done at parse time, so if bind variables are 
used, there is no way for the optimizer to figure out which index to use. 
Those are known gaping holes in the optimizer. They are encountered far 
more frequently than one thinks. Bringing the data model to the 3rd and 
4th normal form is a forgotten art among many developers, resulting in 
frequent occurrences of the correlated columns.

> However there is ample proof that
> Postgresql works ever so well as other database systems, even though it
> doesn't implement hints. If there wasn't, don't you think developers and
> system designers would abandone Postgresql in droves? Hint: They don't.

Of course they don't abandon Postgresql in droves. PostgreSQL doesn't 
have droves of users in the first place. The fact is that the market 
share of PostgreSQL is very minuscule. And the fact is that it remains so 
for a reason. The fact is also that both MySQL and MariaDB have more 
users than PostgreSQL. 


> 
> For anyone who want to know why the Postgresql community currently do
> not consider hints to be very interesting, I encourage you to read this:
> 
> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/OptimizerHintsDiscussion
> 

Again, the main guy on design committee works for EnterpriseDB. 
EnterpriseDB has hints. Not that they help them very much, but the hints 
are there. It would be nice for all those developers working for 
EnterpriseDB to explain why are hints good when talking about EnterpriseDB 
and why hints are not good when it comes to PostgreSQL.

There is also more basic question. The fact is that hints are appearing 
as a subject over and over again, which proves the demand. Yet developers 
don't want to implement something that users keep asking for. Why would 
anyone want to use such a database when there are databases whose 
designers are open to the users suggestions? Here we have a database 
whose designers are telling users that they don't need something. There 
is something wrong here, the users are supposed to tell designers what do 
they need, not the other way round.





-- 
Mladen Gogala
The Oracle Whisperer
http://mgogala.byethost5.com

Back to comp.databases.postgresql | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

why is postgresql better than mariadb? johannes falcone <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-08-15 20:20 -0700
  Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-08-17 12:54 +0000
  Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Harry Tuttle <SOZRBLNTLEEE@spammotel.com> - 2013-08-18 21:40 +0200
    Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Mario Splivalo <majk@fly.srk.fer.hr> - 2013-09-12 19:57 +0000
      Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Harry Tuttle <SOZRBLNTLEEE@spammotel.com> - 2013-09-12 22:16 +0200
      Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2013-10-06 08:21 +0000
        Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Dimitri Fontaine <dimitri@2ndQuadrant.fr> - 2013-10-06 12:10 +0200
          Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2013-10-06 20:44 +0000
            Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Dimitri Fontaine <dimitri@2ndQuadrant.fr> - 2013-10-06 23:17 +0200
          Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Harry Tuttle <SOZRBLNTLEEE@spammotel.com> - 2013-10-07 18:03 +0200
            Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Dimitri Fontaine <dimitri@2ndQuadrant.fr> - 2013-10-07 18:30 +0200
              Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Milo Minderbinder <milo@mmenterprises.invalid> - 2013-10-09 01:51 +0000
            Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb Milo Minderbinder <milo@mmenterprises.invalid> - 2013-10-09 01:46 +0000
              Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-09 08:41 +0200
                Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 03:24 +0000
        Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Fredrik Jonson <fredrik@jonson.org> - 2013-10-11 12:17 +0000
          Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Paul Sephton <prsephton@gmail.com> - 2013-10-14 03:47 -0700
            Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Harry Tuttle <SOZRBLNTLEEE@spammotel.com> - 2013-10-14 18:52 +0200
              Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 03:58 +0000
            Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 03:55 +0000
          Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 03:50 +0000
            Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 04:07 +0000
            Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Dimitri Fontaine <dimitri@2ndQuadrant.fr> - 2013-10-25 10:09 +0200
            Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? johannes falcone <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 10:52 -0800
    Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? johannes falcone <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 10:58 -0800
  Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2013-10-06 08:24 +0000
    Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? johannes falcone <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 02:32 -0700
  Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Marcello Dias <marcellaodobrasil@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 07:39 -0800
    Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? johannes falcone <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 02:33 -0700
  Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Marcello Dias <marcellaodobrasil@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 09:17 -0800
    Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-02 21:18 +0100
  Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Marcello Dias <marcellaodobrasil@gmail.com> - 2013-11-30 05:59 -0800
    Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2013-12-04 04:11 +0000
    Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? johannes falcone <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 02:37 -0700
  Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? Marcello Dias <marcellaodobrasil@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 02:53 -0800
  Re: why is postgresql better than mariadb? yangnw@live.com - 2014-05-12 08:06 -0700

csiph-web