Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond
Date	2017-11-20 16:54 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<ouutsf$eda$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(18 earlier) <ouuekv$rm0$1@dont-email.me> <d1afa13a-2b95-4302-8385-56b6adefc047@googlegroups.com> <ouui7u$li7$1@dont-email.me> <87fu99uimk.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <7b79f668-0f46-4bf7-a56d-62a59e1fcb8e@googlegroups.com>

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On 20/11/17 16:14, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 2:31:29 PM UTC, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>
>> Mind you, I also disagree with Malcolm that the ideal language would use
>> a local point structure.  It may be that for local use a "tuple" type
>> (in this case just a pair) would be better suited.  (Obviously if you
>> have a "global" point struct that's what you'd use.)
>>
> 
> 2D and 3D vectors and points are so common that really there should be
> language support for them.

They are common in programs that handle 2D and 3D graphics.  The great
majority of programs don't need them.  No, you don't need language
support for them.

> As with complex numbers.

I have never really understood why complex numbers are part of C.  They
are rarely used, and I see little advantage in having them as part of
the language rather than as a standard header defining them as structs.
 The only benefit I can see is having operators work on them - allowing
user-defined operator overloading would have solved that.

> However they've not
> been standardised, I guess partly because historically people have often used 
> odd types like fixed precision integers for Cartesian co-ordinates, partly because
> the distinction between a point and a vector is too fine.

People want all sorts of different types for the components of their 2D
points - that does not make them "odd".  /You/ might want them as
doubles, while /I/ might want them as uint8_t types - neither is "odd".

I suspect the reason that they are not standardised is that most code
doesn't need them, that code that /does/ need them might want one of a
dozen different types of point, and wildly different choices of
operations and functions on the points, and that defining your own point
type can be done in a couple of simple lines of code that is faster to
write than it would be to look it up in a reference.

> 
> std::pair in C++ I dislike. Because it's not usually clear what "first" and "second"
> should be. Use of a pair for x and y would be rather confusing because there's
> a strong convention for x for horizontal / minor axis, y for vertical axis. However
> the system I use at present uses "h" and "v".
> 

So don't use std::pair for your points.

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Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 09:10 +0100
  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:02 +0000
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 07:08 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:15 +0000
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 09:09 -0800
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 16:16 +0100
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:32 +0000
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 15:32 +0000
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:45 +0100
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 10:40 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 11:13 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 12:18 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 12:29 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 13:06 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 10:37 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 14:07 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:47 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 13:32 -0800
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 17:27 +0100
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 19:13 +0000
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 01:09 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 11:42 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 13:52 +0100
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:12 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 14:58 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:39 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:44 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:46 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 21:08 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 02:44 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:27 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 15:13 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:55 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 11:11 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 03:40 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 15:44 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 15:30 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:27 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 07:55 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 10:48 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 11:28 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:54 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:20 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 14:18 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 16:40 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 16:43 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 18:43 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 23:40 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-17 20:52 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:07 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-17 00:27 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-16 16:35 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:53 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 09:44 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 10:38 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 23:47 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 11:20 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 16:26 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 15:50 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-17 07:55 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 14:28 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 10:10 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 18:35 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 11:47 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 20:35 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-18 12:53 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-18 22:26 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 00:11 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-18 18:07 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 11:01 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-19 11:57 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 20:17 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-19 12:54 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 21:02 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 21:12 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 16:51 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 14:07 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 12:41 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 07:59 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 17:38 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 13:10 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 22:30 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 15:33 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-19 21:58 -0700
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-20 06:53 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:18 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 08:44 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:22 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 19:25 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-18 20:52 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:07 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 01:40 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 19:12 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 03:54 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 06:56 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 15:42 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 07:45 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 17:08 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 21:45 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 01:17 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 22:05 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 11:25 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-18 21:54 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 21:44 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-19 16:50 -0600
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:56 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 23:18 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-19 22:43 -0600
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 09:06 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 10:45 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 12:25 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 11:52 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 13:19 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 13:23 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:22 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 15:48 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 16:31 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 04:10 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-20 01:00 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 21:23 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 20:41 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:12 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 22:37 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:52 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 11:18 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 12:34 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 03:56 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 13:36 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 05:19 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:37 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 14:31 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 07:14 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:54 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-20 08:05 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 11:18 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 20:11 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 14:27 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-20 11:40 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 22:17 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 09:01 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 22:21 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 10:37 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 09:36 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 20:14 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-20 12:18 -0700
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-20 11:33 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-20 11:48 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 16:26 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 19:10 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 09:53 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 03:42 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-21 13:18 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 04:49 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-21 15:49 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 07:41 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-21 12:39 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 08:20 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-21 12:33 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-21 15:58 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 16:41 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 01:01 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:21 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 01:50 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:57 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 18:31 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-22 10:58 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 20:50 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-22 13:04 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-11-22 13:09 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 06:24 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-21 20:01 -0600
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 10:00 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 11:03 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 12:38 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 11:50 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:18 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 13:19 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:47 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 16:04 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-22 16:45 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-22 12:08 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-22 10:02 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 21:56 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 20:22 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 21:59 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 21:15 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-22 13:37 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 22:04 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-23 18:25 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 18:16 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 10:27 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-23 12:50 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:18 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:15 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-23 12:48 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 22:18 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-24 09:38 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 21:00 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-22 13:40 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 22:24 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-22 15:18 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 02:34 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 13:45 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:34 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-23 18:16 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 10:23 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 12:13 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:30 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 02:21 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 13:49 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 16:07 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 16:03 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-24 09:09 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 08:02 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 11:26 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 11:37 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 19:56 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 12:07 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 20:31 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 12:38 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 19:32 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 08:34 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 20:24 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 06:34 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 20:05 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-24 11:57 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 04:25 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-24 13:02 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 07:31 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-24 13:32 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-24 14:05 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-25 12:03 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-11-25 00:23 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 00:41 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-25 00:58 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-24 20:28 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 02:36 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-25 02:53 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-24 22:42 -0600
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-25 10:34 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 17:13 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-25 13:32 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 10:38 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 19:17 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 08:43 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-25 19:46 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 11:14 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 08:44 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 03:19 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-22 09:45 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:52 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-20 12:14 -0700
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:45 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-20 17:12 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-11-20 13:14 +0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2017-11-19 22:38 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 18:43 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 18:07 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 10:38 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 22:30 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 14:22 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2017-11-25 11:46 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 17:19 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 08:46 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 20:59 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 11:54 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 23:34 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 14:19 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 11:39 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 13:20 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 13:43 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 17:32 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 17:31 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 22:11 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-26 06:53 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 19:50 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:37 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 07:54 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:45 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:15 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-11-17 19:36 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:03 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 16:02 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 08:12 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 16:44 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:53 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 08:04 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 19:46 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 11:12 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 23:00 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 12:14 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 23:35 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:27 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 01:57 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 12:09 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 23:39 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 13:30 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 01:17 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 14:37 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 12:52 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 10:33 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-18 22:04 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 17:30 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 08:02 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 03:15 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 17:39 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 19:13 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:48 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 17:03 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:24 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:45 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-16 10:57 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 14:13 -0600
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:24 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 09:53 -0600
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 23:44 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 08:35 -0800
  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2017-11-15 16:28 -0800
  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-15 23:00 -0600
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 14:38 +0000
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 12:15 -0600
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:44 +0000
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 13:54 -0600
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 09:51 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:28 -0600
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-17 10:56 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:47 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 20:16 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 12:57 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 15:07 -0600

csiph-web