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Re: The Trouble With Dungeons

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On 07/02/2026 17.55, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Feb 2026 23:40:59 +0100, "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 06/02/2026 18.04, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>
>>> How did you run your dungeon crawls? Was dungeoneering a major part of
>>> your adventures?
>>
>> When I did DM, we played a variety of different games, so I got a bit
>> inspired by a small independent game based on d20, it was inspired by
>> action movies where you have a story that is pushed forward and skipping
>> the boring stuff. So I had more of from action to action type of setup,
>> no matter if it was underdark, on top of the world on somewhere in between.
> 
> Cool, especially if your players enjoyed it.

We did alternate who was DM, and we did play shadow run, fading suns, 
AD&D (version 2 and 2.5 and bit 3 too), also some Target Games products 
like DoD, Mutant Chronicles, Kult. Sure we had one who was a heavy dice 
roller and slow action moments that could drag out for hours without 
anything happen, just getting from A to B.


> Our campaigns were different. In many ways, they were more like those
> survival video games (perhaps a bit less focus on crafting ;-) where
> the journey was as much a part of the adventure as the actual
> confrontation with the Big Evil Foozle at the end. Which was cool too;
> every group has differing tastes. It's my main objection to the video,
> which suggested that the solution to players not enjoying a dungeon
> crawl was poor time management; I think it's broader than that. In
> your example, your group was happier just to get to the big battle; in
> ours, it was the journey that mattered. No amount of time-management
> skills would have made dungeoneering more exciting to us.

Sure players enjoy different things, as do DM's like to lead the games 
in different ways, the most important is that everyone enjoyed the 
session and that the DM listens to player complaints and adjust in the 
future.


> Which isn't to say I completely disagreed with all of his thesis that
> modern D&D relies to heavily on skills and dice-rolls... or at least
> doesn't give DMs the tools and advice on how /not/ to do that. If your
> game falls into the trap of "I roll a die to see if I succeed at
> action X", it's going to be really hard to keep most players engaged

If I remember what it said in the AD&D v2 DM book, was that the rules 
are only suggestions and not commands from a "god". So you don't have to 
roll a dice for everything, you should keep the story going and make it 
interesting, sometimes the players need to suffer so that they can enjoy 
the win in the last battle a lot more. Sure I did roll my dices far more 
times than they actually meant something, just giving the illusion that 
something was random, but was actually part of the story I already had 
made up.


> and a lot of the tips in the video are telling DMs -one way or
> another- to break out of that trend. Don't let your players rely
> simply on their stats and skill blocks. Make them think and act it
> out. If tight time management works for your group, use that.

Sure, the players need to act as their characters, but the more stats 
and things the more they become distracted from roll playing and they 
just keep on playing and then you can just play a RPG game on the computer.


> But like I said, I never really cared for dungeons to begin with. The
> too-tight corridors never really let the players fully explore their
> capabilities. You were trapped in tiny rooms, with limited
> maneuverability and options. That's not to say I saw no use for the
> things; sometimes you /want/ to limit the players that way. But I
> always found the more open spaces on the surface a better playground.
> The dungeons were a contrast to that, but only worked if used
> sparingly.  At least in our campaigns.

In a campaign (not me as DM), we had characters that started to have 
their own strong holds, and it was time to build some defenses against 
powerful monsters who was kind of after the characters, it ended up that 
the players built their "dungeon" and the DM sent in the monster, it can 
be a fun time for them to plan how to defeat a Beholder in a dungeon 
they construct.


-- 
  //Aho

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Thread

The Trouble With Dungeons Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-06 12:04 -0500
  Re: The Trouble With Dungeons "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2026-02-06 23:40 +0100
    Re: The Trouble With Dungeons Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-07 11:55 -0500
      Re: The Trouble With Dungeons "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2026-02-08 00:59 +0100
        Re: The Trouble With Dungeons Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-08 11:20 -0500
          Re: The Trouble With Dungeons "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2026-02-09 08:18 +0100
  Re: The Trouble With Dungeons Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> - 2026-02-09 10:25 -0800

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