Re: Balanced trees

References	(7 earlier) <87eh2d3x8h.fsf_-_@elektro.pacujo.net> <CAGGBd_qU3Zp3A4pymnDQfWynWZwFVrdHJpG=U0WZTap4HiymdA@mail.gmail.com> <lffv32$mqo$1@ger.gmane.org> <CAN1F8qU=2K6ysbpnu-JoUtfWfTToRsOaRek0dSQzjPx_sYzPKQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAMMy=OsYUzULRTRHwytiTszd44f3anz43=2DtGALHR3nBGe8JQ@mail.gmail.com>
From	Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws>
Date	2014-03-18 00:08 +0000
Subject	Re: Balanced trees
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.8229.1395101355.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 17 March 2014 21:16, Daniel Stutzbach <stutzbach@google.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> wrote:
>>
>> Now, I understand there are downsides to blist. Particularly, I've
>> looked through the "benchmarks" and they seem untruthful.
>
> I worked hard to make those benchmarks as fair as possible.  I recognize
> that evaluating your own work always runs the risk of introducing hidden
> biases, and I welcome input on how they could be improved.

Thanks.  First, I want to state that there are two aspects to my
claim. The first is that these benchmarks to not represent typical
use-cases. I will not go too far into this, though, because it's
mostly obvious.

The second is that of the the flaws in the benchmarks themselves.

I'll go through in turn some that are apparent to me:

"Create from an iterator" gives me relatively different results when I
run it (Python 3).

"Delete a slice" is fudged from its inclusion of multiplication, which
is far faster on blists. I admit that it's not obvious how to fix
this.

"First in, first out (FIFO)" should be "x.append(0); x.pop(0)".

"Last in, first out (LIFO)" should use "pop()" over "pop(-1)",
although I admit it shouldn't make a meaningful difference.

"Sort *" are really unfair because they put initialisation in the
timed part and all have keys. The benchmarks on Github are less bad,
but the website really should include all of them and fix the
remaining problems. I do understand that TimSort isn't the most suited
algorithm, though, so I won't read too far into these results.

Further, some of these tests don't show growth where they should, such
as in getitem. The growth is readily apparent when measured as such:

>>> python -m timeit -s "from random import choice; import blist; lst = blist.blist(range(10**0))" "choice(lst)"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.18 usec per loop

>>> python -m timeit -s "from random import choice; import blist; lst = blist.blist(range(10**8))" "choice(lst)"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.56 usec per loop

Lower size ranges are hidden by the function-call overhead.
Perhaps this effect is to do with caching, in which case the limits of
the cache should be explained more readily.

Nevertheless, my enthusiasm for blist as an alternative stdlib
implementation remains. There are obvious and large advantages to be
had, sometimes when you wouldn't even expect. The slower aspects of
blist are also rarely part of the bottlenecks of programs. So yeah, go
for it.

Thread

Re: Tuples and immutability Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-03-07 09:33 +0000
  Re: Tuples and immutability Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-03-07 22:04 +1100
  Re: Tuples and immutability Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-07 22:11 +1100
  Re: Tuples and immutability Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2014-03-07 12:38 +0100
  Re: Tuples and immutability Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-07 22:45 +1100
  Re: Tuples and immutability Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-07 11:51 +0000
    Re: Tuples and immutability Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-07 11:23 -0700
  Re: Tuples and immutability Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-03-07 08:37 -0500
  Re: Tuples and immutability Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-03-08 15:17 +1300
    Re: Tuples and immutability Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-07 21:17 -0700
      Balanced trees (was: Re: Tuples and immutability) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-08 10:34 +0200
        Re: Balanced trees (was: Re: Tuples and immutability) Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-08 04:03 -0700
          Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-08 13:26 +0200
        Re: Balanced trees (was: Re: Tuples and immutability) Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-08 11:58 -0800
        Re: Balanced trees Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-03-08 20:37 +0000
          Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-08 23:21 +0200
            Re: Balanced trees Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-03-08 17:22 -0500
              Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-09 11:17 +0200
            Re: Balanced trees Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-08 17:31 -0800
              Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-09 11:27 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-09 14:20 -0700
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-09 23:32 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-09 14:37 -0700
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-09 23:43 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-09 15:08 -0700
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-10 00:24 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-09 18:04 -0600
                Re: Balanced trees Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-10 03:24 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-10 03:24 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-10 08:16 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-10 08:53 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-10 11:41 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-03-10 06:57 -0400
                Re: Balanced trees Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-03-10 09:01 -0700
                Re: Balanced trees Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-11 02:02 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-03-10 22:20 -0400
                Re: Balanced trees Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 13:29 +1100
                Re: Balanced trees Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-03-10 09:51 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-03-10 09:59 -0400
                Re: Balanced trees Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 03:20 +1100
                Re: Balanced trees Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 03:24 +1100
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-10 19:08 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 04:17 +1100
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-10 19:34 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-13 12:40 -0600
                Re: Balanced trees Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-13 23:57 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-13 20:12 -0700
                Re: Balanced trees Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-14 05:02 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-03-10 19:24 -0400
                Re: Balanced trees Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 10:27 +1100
                Re: Balanced trees Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-11 01:26 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 12:45 +1100
                Re: Balanced trees Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-10 21:38 -0600
                Re: Balanced trees Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 15:28 +1100
                Re: Balanced trees "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> - 2014-03-12 00:57 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-11 12:12 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-03-12 10:13 +1000
                Re: Balanced trees Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-11 09:25 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2014-03-12 10:08 +0100
                Re: Balanced trees Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-03-10 11:33 -0500
                Re: Balanced trees Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 03:39 +1100
                Re: Balanced trees Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-10 18:05 -0700
                Re: Balanced trees Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-03-10 22:13 -0400
                Re: Balanced trees Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-03-10 19:57 -0400
        Re: Balanced trees Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2014-03-15 01:13 +0000
          Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-18 00:05 +0200
            Re: Balanced trees Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-18 12:26 -0700
              Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-18 22:55 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-18 14:45 -0700
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-19 00:03 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-18 15:21 -0700
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-19 01:11 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-19 01:15 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-19 10:49 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-19 13:42 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-19 15:54 +0200
                Re: Balanced trees Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-03-19 10:06 -0400
                Re: Balanced trees Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-19 01:15 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-03-19 08:15 -0700
                Re: Balanced trees "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> - 2014-03-20 02:16 +0000
                Re: Balanced trees Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-03-19 19:34 -0700
                Re: Balanced trees Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2014-03-18 18:02 -0700
            Re: Balanced trees Daniel Stutzbach <stutzbach@google.com> - 2014-03-18 13:18 -0700
        blist in standard library  (was Re: Balanced trees) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-03-15 12:31 +0000
        Re: Balanced trees Daniel Stutzbach <stutzbach@google.com> - 2014-03-17 14:16 -0700
        Re: Balanced trees Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2014-03-18 00:08 +0000
        Re: Balanced trees Daniel Stutzbach <stutzbach@google.com> - 2014-03-17 18:01 -0700
        Re: Balanced trees Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2014-03-18 07:46 +0000
      Re: Tuples and immutability Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-03-09 13:40 +1300
        Re: Tuples and immutability Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-08 19:39 -0700
          Re: Tuples and immutability Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-09 11:35 +0200
          Re: Tuples and immutability Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-03-10 11:03 +1300
            Re: Tuples and immutability Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-03-09 19:00 -0400
            Re: Tuples and immutability Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-09 17:42 -0600
              Re: Tuples and immutability Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-10 02:37 +0000
                Re: Tuples and immutability Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-10 02:35 -0600
                Re: Tuples and immutability Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-10 09:13 +0000
                Re: Tuples and immutability Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-03-11 18:15 +1300
              Re: Tuples and immutability Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-03-11 18:03 +1300
                Re: Tuples and immutability Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 04:39 -0600
                Re: Tuples and immutability Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-11 16:46 +0000
                Re: Tuples and immutability Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-03-12 10:23 +1300
                Re: Tuples and immutability Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 17:06 -0600
                Re: Tuples and immutability Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-12 23:20 +0000
                Re: Tuples and immutability Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-12 19:35 -0600
                Re: Tuples and immutability Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-03-12 22:09 -0400
      Re: Tuples and immutability Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-03-09 13:45 +1300
        Re: Tuples and immutability Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-03-08 19:55 -0700

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