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Groups > comp.lang.python > #108567

Why online forums have bad behaviour (was: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement?)

From Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Subject Why online forums have bad behaviour (was: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement?)
Date 2016-05-13 05:36 +1000
Message-ID <mailman.616.1463081804.32212.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <mailman.577.1462915657.32212.python-list@python.org> <ngtra9$n7s$1@dont-email.me> <ANXYy.768757$2u3.504570@fx35.am4> <57349595.6000702@gmail.com> <85vb2jdq6c.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

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Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> writes:

> It's really sad to see folks like DFS hop on the list with apparent
> enthusiasm for Python and an excitement to learn, only to resort to
> name calling and walk away in a huff when folks ask them not to speak
> that way around here. I'm not sure why this is.

TL;DR: because we're all human, and human behaviour needs either
immediate face-to-face feedback or social enforcement to correct
selfishness and abrasiveness. Where face-to-face feedback is lacking,
social enforcement needs to take more of the load.


Many people have a false sense of entitlement to be caustic in dealing
with others, and have no better response to a request that they tone it
down than to escalate their bad behaviour.

This behaviour is usually counteracted in face-to-face interaction, by
being confronted with the immediate result on the other person: most
people don't enjoy *seeing* other people become upset, so most people
tend to work harder to be more polite in face-to-face discussion.

On an internet forum, especially one with such low bandwidth as text,
these feedback mechanisms are not sufficient (not immediate enough, and
not informative enough) for the person to experience a link from their
bad behaviour to the unpleasant consequences.


This isn't a new problem. It's not new to the internet, and it certainly
isn't new to humans.

What is new, though, is that many online communities – the Python
community specifically – have decided we are not going to tolerate
anti-social behaviour, and we have also enacted policies to enforce that
decision.

We'll always have some anti-social actors, and bad actions by otherwise
good actors. Many of them when confronted will respond with petulance
and name-calling and bullying and other schoolyard reflexes. We have to
be consistent in rejecting such behaviour from our community.

-- 
 \          “Writing a book is like washing an elephant: there no good |
  `\        place to begin or end, and it's hard to keep track of what |
_o__)                              you've already covered.” —anonymous |
Ben Finney

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Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-08 19:10 -0400
  Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-05-08 18:37 -0500
  Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 20:02 -0400
  String concatenation (was: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement?) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-05-09 02:44 +0200
    Re: String concatenation (was: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement?) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 12:16 +1000
      Re: String concatenation Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-05-09 23:21 +0200
        Re: String concatenation Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-10 12:32 +1000
          Re: String concatenation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 12:42 +1000
            Re: String concatenation Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-12 17:43 +1000
        Re: String concatenation Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 20:45 -0700
          Re: String concatenation Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-10 16:46 +1000
            Re: String concatenation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-05-10 00:13 -0700
              Re: String concatenation Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-10 17:54 +1000
                Re: String concatenation David Palao <dpalao.python@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 10:15 +0200
                Re: String concatenation Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-12 17:27 +1000
    Re: String concatenation (was: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement?) srinivas devaki <mr.eightnoteight@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 09:01 +0530
    Re: String concatenation (was: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement?) srinivas devaki <mr.eightnoteight@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 09:13 +0530
    Re: String concatenation (was: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement?) Michael Selik <michael.selik@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 18:29 +0000
    Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-10 19:53 -0400
      Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-05-11 02:16 +0200
        Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-10 20:33 -0400
        Moderation [was Re: ...What's wrong with this concatenation statement?] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-11 11:17 +1000
        Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 11:43 +1000
          Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-05-11 21:12 +0200
        Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-05-11 12:39 -0700
          Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 09:07 +1000
          Re: % formatting vs .format() (was: What's wrong with this concatenation statement?) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-05-11 18:31 -0500
    Re: String concatenation (was: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement?) sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2016-05-10 17:38 -0700
      Re: String concatenation Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-05-11 21:14 +0200
        Re: String concatenation sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2016-05-11 14:30 -0700
          Re: String concatenation Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-05-11 14:50 -0700
          Re: String concatenation DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-11 18:25 -0400
  Re: What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-09 17:53 +1000
    Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-10 12:16 -0400
      Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 09:41 -0700
      Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-05-10 09:42 -0700
        Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-10 18:37 -0400
      Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-11 02:44 +1000
      Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 12:15 -0600
        Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-10 17:21 -0400
          Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-11 07:27 +1000
            Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-10 19:40 -0400
              Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-05-10 19:14 -0700
              Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-05-12 09:12 +0000
                Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 19:23 +1000
                Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-12 08:24 -0400
                Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 08:39 -0600
                Why online forums have bad behaviour (was: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement?) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-05-13 05:36 +1000
                Re: Why online forums have bad behaviour (was: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement?) Jason Friedman <jsf80238@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 21:05 -0600
          Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-05-10 15:12 -0700
            Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-10 19:29 -0400
              Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-12 13:39 +0000
                Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 23:50 +1000
          Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-05-10 16:16 -0700
            Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-10 19:41 -0400
  Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? srinivas devaki <mr.eightnoteight@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 13:53 +0530
    Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-05-12 02:36 -0700
      Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-13 01:06 +1000
  Re: Steve D'Aprano, you're the "master". What's wrong with this concatenation statement? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 18:40 +1000

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