Re: Building CPython

Date	2015-05-16 02:16 +0100
From	MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Subject	Re: Building CPython
References	(6 earlier) <crlglfFgf05U1@mid.individual.net> <87bnhmgqrx.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <DWt5x.439666$qW.359562@fx20.am4> <87twvdsbom.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <bpw5x.561870$Zf4.150532@fx22.am4>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.53.1431739023.17265.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 2015-05-16 01:43, BartC wrote:
> On 15/05/2015 23:44, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com>:
>>
>>> What /is/ a method lookup? Is it when you have this:
>>>
>>>   A.B()
>>>
>>> and need to find whether the expression A (or its class or type) has a
>>> name B associated with it? (And it then needs to check whether B is
>>> something that can be called.)
>>>
>>> If so, does that have to be done using Python's Dict mechanism? (Ie.
>>> searching for a key 'B' by name and seeing if the object associated
>>> with it is a method. That does not sound efficient.)
>>
>> That is a general feature among high-level programming languages. In
>> Python, it is even more complicated:
>>
>>   * first the object's dict is looked up for the method name
>>
>>   * if the method is not found (it usually isn't), the dict of the
>>     object's class is consulted
>>
>>   * if the method is found (it usually is), a function object is
>>     instantiated that delegates to the class's method and embeds a "self"
>>     reference to the object to the call
>>
>> IOW, two dict lookups plus an object construction for each method call.
>
> OK, I didn't know that objects have their own set of attributes that are
> distinct from the class they belong to. I really ought to learn more
> Python!.
>
> (Yet, I have this crazy urge now to create my own bytecode interpreter
> for, if not exactly Python itself, then an equivalent language. Just to
> see if I can do any better than CPython, given the same language
> restraints.
>
> Although I'm hampered a little by not knowing Python well enough. Nor
> OOP, but those are minor details... Anyway it sounds more fun than
> trying to decipher the layers of macros and conditional code that appear
> to be the CPython sources.)
>
>   > IOW, two dict lookups plus an object construction for each method call.
>
> I suppose in many cases an object will have no attributes of its own,
> and so it can rapidly bypass the first lookup. I don't understand the
> need for an object creation (to represent A.B so that it can call it?)
> but perhaps such an object can already exist, prepared ready for use.
>
It's possible to do:

     f = A.B
     ...
     f()

so it's necessary to have an object for A.B.

The question is how much you would gain from optimising A.B() as a
special case (increase in speed vs increase in complexity).

Thread

Building CPython BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-13 20:36 +0100
  Re: Building CPython Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-13 20:58 +0100
  Re: Building CPython Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-05-13 18:34 -0400
    Re: Building CPython BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-14 16:51 +0100
      Re: Building CPython Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 02:09 +1000
        Re: Building CPython BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-14 18:02 +0100
          Re: Building CPython Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-05-14 13:10 -0400
          Re: Building CPython Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 03:11 +1000
            Re: Building CPython BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-14 18:32 +0100
              Re: Building CPython Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 03:45 +1000
          Re: Building CPython Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-05-14 14:50 -0400
            Re: Building CPython Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-05-15 12:51 +0200
              Re: Building CPython Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-05-15 17:19 -0400
      Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-14 19:29 +0300
        Re: Building CPython BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-14 22:55 +0100
          Re: Building CPython MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-05-14 23:19 +0100
          Re: Building CPython BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-15 01:50 +0100
            Re: Building CPython Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-05-15 18:05 +1200
              Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-15 11:59 +0300
                Re: Building CPython wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-05-15 02:07 -0700
                Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-15 12:20 +0300
                Re: Building CPython wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-05-15 02:51 -0700
                Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-15 13:52 +0300
                Re: Building CPython Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-15 22:10 +1000
                Re: Building CPython Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 22:34 +1000
                Re: Building CPython wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-05-15 07:11 -0700
                Re: Building CPython Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-15 13:41 +0100
                Re: Building CPython Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-15 13:38 +0100
                Re: Building CPython Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 19:43 +1000
                Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-15 13:50 +0300
                Re: Building CPython Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-15 22:43 +1000
                Re: Building CPython Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 09:00 -0600
                Re: Building CPython Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 09:04 -0600
                Re: Building CPython Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 01:06 +1000
                Re: Building CPython Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-15 20:14 +1000
                Re: Building CPython Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 20:25 +1000
                Re: Building CPython Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-05-15 17:05 -0400
                Re: Building CPython BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-15 22:54 +0100
                Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-16 01:44 +0300
                Re: Building CPython Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-16 00:27 +0100
                Re: Building CPython Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-16 11:55 +1000
                Re: Building CPython Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 12:15 +1000
                Re: Building CPython Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-16 03:17 +0100
                Re: Building CPython BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-16 01:43 +0100
                Re: Building CPython MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-05-16 02:16 +0100
                Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-16 11:08 +0300
                Re: Building CPython Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-16 19:40 +1000
                Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-16 16:59 +0300
                Re: Building CPython Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-17 04:18 +1000
                Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-16 21:55 +0300
                Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-17 01:51 +0300
                Re: Building CPython Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-17 23:49 +0300
                Re: Building CPython Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-05-15 19:54 -0400
              Re: Building CPython BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-15 10:32 +0100
                Re: Building CPython Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-05-16 12:55 +1200
                Re: Building CPython Jonas Wielicki <jonas@wielicki.name> - 2015-05-17 14:25 +0200
                Re: Building CPython BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-17 14:41 +0100

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